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Keep "my game is better than yours"-slapfights out of this. If the discussion devolves into simple bashing, this thread will be closed. |
On May 17 2014 10:40 Footler wrote:More or less nothing afaik. Back to the drawing board was what I heard about it last time I checked.
First it was a gigant ass MMORPG meant to replace World Of Warcraft. Then it was still a MMORPG but it was getting a reboot. Then it became just some kind of big release of an new uknown game that might not be a MMORPG.Then they said that it actually might be a smaller release like heartstone. At current date uknown ... "More or less nothing afaik" 
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On May 17 2014 06:28 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2014 06:26 LongShot27 wrote:On May 14 2014 05:09 Garrl wrote:- Lack of strategic depth
pretty... sweeping statement you have there. You really think mobas have a lack of strategic depth? Item based Moba's do lack strategic depth, its becomes a race of "Who can get the enough gold to get enough items to do more damage faster" They weren't designed that way intentionally but thats what happened Expansion based RTS's do lack strategic depth, its becomes a race of "Who can get the enough resources to get enough units to do more damage faster" They weren't designed that way intentionally but thats what happened
I believe resources are symmetrical so sorry that doesnt work. The problem with Mobas is that while there are 5000 hero combinations, there's only so many "right" choices you can choose. There really not that amount of depth, its you do A or you do B in any ingame fight or lane position battle. SC has an infinite amount of options and bluffs due to the fact that there are no tug of war lanes, resources, buildings, expansions, macro. Mobas have micro and that's it. It be like playing standard draw poker. No bets no noffing. You trade the cards to get the best possible chance of a better hand... Thats all. Mobas never have been real time strategy more than a fighting game is.
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On May 17 2014 14:14 Roswell wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2014 06:28 Thieving Magpie wrote:On May 17 2014 06:26 LongShot27 wrote:On May 14 2014 05:09 Garrl wrote:- Lack of strategic depth
pretty... sweeping statement you have there. You really think mobas have a lack of strategic depth? Item based Moba's do lack strategic depth, its becomes a race of "Who can get the enough gold to get enough items to do more damage faster" They weren't designed that way intentionally but thats what happened Expansion based RTS's do lack strategic depth, its becomes a race of "Who can get the enough resources to get enough units to do more damage faster" They weren't designed that way intentionally but thats what happened I believe resources are symmetrical so sorry that doesnt work. The problem with Mobas is that while there are 5000 hero combinations, there's only so many "right" choices you can choose. There really not that amount of depth, its you do A or you do B in any ingame fight or lane position battle. SC has an infinite amount of options and bluffs due to the fact that there are no tug of war lanes, resources, buildings, expansions, macro. Mobas have micro and that's it. It be like playing standard draw poker. No bets no noffing. You trade the cards to get the best possible chance of a better hand... Thats all. Mobas never have been real time strategy more than a fighting game is.
I'm convinced this guys just trolling now.
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I'm just wondering:
Poll: Will Heroes of the Storm reach LoL/Dota2 popularity?No (35) 90% Yes (4) 10% 39 total votes Your vote: Will Heroes of the Storm reach LoL/Dota2 popularity? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
If it does, chances of a StarCraft 3 release are diminished.
However, if Heroes of the Storm fails, the future for StarCraft 3 is bright!
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On May 17 2014 14:30 decemberscalm wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2014 14:14 Roswell wrote:On May 17 2014 06:28 Thieving Magpie wrote:On May 17 2014 06:26 LongShot27 wrote:On May 14 2014 05:09 Garrl wrote:- Lack of strategic depth
pretty... sweeping statement you have there. You really think mobas have a lack of strategic depth? Item based Moba's do lack strategic depth, its becomes a race of "Who can get the enough gold to get enough items to do more damage faster" They weren't designed that way intentionally but thats what happened Expansion based RTS's do lack strategic depth, its becomes a race of "Who can get the enough resources to get enough units to do more damage faster" They weren't designed that way intentionally but thats what happened I believe resources are symmetrical so sorry that doesnt work. The problem with Mobas is that while there are 5000 hero combinations, there's only so many "right" choices you can choose. There really not that amount of depth, its you do A or you do B in any ingame fight or lane position battle. SC has an infinite amount of options and bluffs due to the fact that there are no tug of war lanes, resources, buildings, expansions, macro. Mobas have micro and that's it. It be like playing standard draw poker. No bets no noffing. You trade the cards to get the best possible chance of a better hand... Thats all. Mobas never have been real time strategy more than a fighting game is. I'm convinced this guys just trolling now.
He's right , mobas have very little strategy other than knowing when,where and how to acquire farm I dont really feel the stategy you seem to implying. The game makes up for what it lacks in strategy with tactics though.
Edit: before you tell me to play the game I'm 5.2k rated in DotA
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United States97276 Posts
On May 17 2014 15:12 urboss wrote:I'm just wondering: + Show Spoiler +Poll: Will Heroes of the Storm reach LoL/Dota2 popularity?No (35) 90% Yes (4) 10% 39 total votes Your vote: Will Heroes of the Storm reach LoL/Dota2 popularity? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
If it does, chances of a StarCraft 3 release are diminished. However, if Heroes of the Storm fails, the future for StarCraft 3 is bright!
I think you'll see a big initial boom because so many people played blizzard games but I feel like LoL and Dota are just too established at this point for Heroes of the Storm to be a serious competitor.
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On May 17 2014 15:53 Shellshock wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2014 15:12 urboss wrote:I'm just wondering: + Show Spoiler +Poll: Will Heroes of the Storm reach LoL/Dota2 popularity?No (35) 90% Yes (4) 10% 39 total votes Your vote: Will Heroes of the Storm reach LoL/Dota2 popularity? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
If it does, chances of a StarCraft 3 release are diminished. However, if Heroes of the Storm fails, the future for StarCraft 3 is bright! I think you'll see a big initial boom because so many people played blizzard games but I feel like LoL and Dota are just too established at this point for Heroes of the Storm to be a serious competitor.
Is Blizzard planning to get into e-sports with Heroes of the Storm?
Are they gonna support it just like StarCraft?
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On May 17 2014 15:48 [O]ops wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2014 14:30 decemberscalm wrote:On May 17 2014 14:14 Roswell wrote:On May 17 2014 06:28 Thieving Magpie wrote:On May 17 2014 06:26 LongShot27 wrote:On May 14 2014 05:09 Garrl wrote:- Lack of strategic depth
pretty... sweeping statement you have there. You really think mobas have a lack of strategic depth? Item based Moba's do lack strategic depth, its becomes a race of "Who can get the enough gold to get enough items to do more damage faster" They weren't designed that way intentionally but thats what happened Expansion based RTS's do lack strategic depth, its becomes a race of "Who can get the enough resources to get enough units to do more damage faster" They weren't designed that way intentionally but thats what happened I believe resources are symmetrical so sorry that doesnt work. The problem with Mobas is that while there are 5000 hero combinations, there's only so many "right" choices you can choose. There really not that amount of depth, its you do A or you do B in any ingame fight or lane position battle. SC has an infinite amount of options and bluffs due to the fact that there are no tug of war lanes, resources, buildings, expansions, macro. Mobas have micro and that's it. It be like playing standard draw poker. No bets no noffing. You trade the cards to get the best possible chance of a better hand... Thats all. Mobas never have been real time strategy more than a fighting game is. I'm convinced this guys just trolling now. He's right , mobas have very little strategy other than knowing when,where and how to acquire farm I dont really feel the stategy you seem to implying. The game makes up for what it lacks in strategy with tactics though. Edit: before you tell me to play the game I'm 5.2k rated in DotA
what about map objectives 'n stuff?
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On May 17 2014 07:44 decemberscalm wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2014 07:30 Thieving Magpie wrote:On May 17 2014 06:31 decemberscalm wrote:On May 17 2014 06:26 LongShot27 wrote:On May 14 2014 05:09 Garrl wrote:- Lack of strategic depth
pretty... sweeping statement you have there. You really think mobas have a lack of strategic depth? Item based Moba's do lack strategic depth, its becomes a race of "Who can get the enough gold to get enough items to do more damage faster" They weren't designed that way intentionally but thats what happened RTS's do lack strategic depth, it becomes a race of "Who can get enough money to get enough units to do more damage faster". Dota for sure isn't as simple as that, you've got drafts, game plans vs different compositions, builds that counter other builds better, keeping track of your opponents setups. Just like the common silly myth about SC style rts being about who can get the most dudes out the quickest isn't true. edit: god damnit magpie  what a theif I always think back to Go. If a game where you place a non-moving black/white piece on the board can have strategic depth, then surely any real time game will have strategic depth. Oh go. A minuscule set of rules, some places to put down pieces and you've got a strategic masterpeice. I've been experimenting with mods that are relatively simple, easy to learn and play but should have incredibly high strategic ceilings. But of course, people really need the shiny diversity most rts's bring to the table.
That's a good point, games don't need to be complicated to have lots of strategic depth.
In fact, almost the opposite is the case.
The fewer the options, the harder you have to think about how to get an advantage.
The problem is of course that real-time action and strategic depth don't go well together.
It's hard to think 5 moves ahead if you have to consider random events fucking things up on move 2 already.
But real strategic depth is not what players want anyway, otherwise turn-based strategy games would be more popular.
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Base building, economy and macro are the whole reason I like SC2 and I wouldn't play (or watch) any RTS with less of it. The other games I play are things like Civ, Paradox games etc so if you took those elements out there would be very little left of interest to me. There's already little enough strategy in RTSs as it is. I also dislike heroes, so I would probably never have cared much for WC3 either. I don't even need to try LoL or Dota to know I wouldn't like them.
What the OP is describing sounds like just another MOBA to me and I would have no interest. People sure do seem to love MOBAs though so I'm sure some kind of hybrid could be successful.
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On May 17 2014 15:12 urboss wrote:I'm just wondering: Poll: Will Heroes of the Storm reach LoL/Dota2 popularity?No (35) 90% Yes (4) 10% 39 total votes Your vote: Will Heroes of the Storm reach LoL/Dota2 popularity? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
If it does, chances of a StarCraft 3 release are diminished. However, if Heroes of the Storm fails, the future for StarCraft 3 is bright!
If Heroes of the Storm becomes as big as LoL then Blizzard will have the justification to hire and create a dedicated "MOBA Team". Dota2 only made $80 million last year. It makes a fuck-tonne of noise online. Relatively speaking, it makes fuck all for the actual publisher.
http://venturebeat.com/2014/01/20/10-online-pc-games-that-made-more-than-100m-in-microtransaction-sales-last-year/
So if Heroes is as big as LoL....
this is where we find out how committed to the genre Blizzard is. If they choose not to create 2 separate team's....MOBA and RTS then this is their indication of a slow exit from the RTS marketplace.
If they give some PR double talk about how "this team will handle both RTS and MOBA" ... then don't expect much RTS content.
If on the other hire Blizzard does create a completely separate MOBA Team. Then the RTS team will be free to work on new games all the time.
If this MOBA "fails" in the eyes of Blizzard it'll be interesting to see what they do with the "RTS Team" or as the employees call it "Team 1".
The RTS Team is called "Team 1" because it was the first development "team" they ever created. For their previous games it was an ad-hoc collection of guys who moved fluidly between whatever inferno was going on in the company.
The minute he sees weakness in a genre Bobby Kotick has a reputation for cutting and cutting fast. Remember Guitar Hero? Although this is Kotick's method, Blizzard rarely breaks promises. Blizzard promised 2 expansions for SC2 and i'm almost positive we'll get them.
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If there were a requirement to be at least gm in Starcraft or 5k rating in DotA to be allowed to post here, the discussion might actually be useful. That isn't much, but it would prevent the most clueless to spread nonsense.
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From know on, only Blizzard or Relic product managers are allowed to post in this thread!
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Kind of off topic, but I feel like our announcers are so bland for the most part now, that it's boring to watch. All of them try to be analytical, where I think we need more people like Husky casting, or go back to something like Husky with an analytical caster.
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Australia1191 Posts
On May 17 2014 22:18 Trustworthy-Tony wrote:
If there were a requirement to be at least gm in Starcraft or 5k rating in DotA to be allowed to post here, the discussion might actually be useful. That isn't much, but it would prevent the most clueless to spread nonsense.
That discussion is about as useful as this discussion...
Being good at games =/= understanding development
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On May 18 2014 00:12 ZodaSoda wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2014 22:18 Trustworthy-Tony wrote:
If there were a requirement to be at least gm in Starcraft or 5k rating in DotA to be allowed to post here, the discussion might actually be useful. That isn't much, but it would prevent the most clueless to spread nonsense. That discussion is about as useful as this discussion... Being good at games =/= understanding development
Having a clue how the game works strategically, mechanically and tactically is painfully apparrently not a thing people consider necessary to having an opinion.
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This discussion has gotten incredibly off topic if you think that you need to be GM in order to contribute.
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On May 18 2014 00:32 packrat386 wrote:
This discussion has gotten incredibly off topic if you think that you need to be GM in order to contribute.
Being gm isn't a guarantee that you will be able to contribute, but it would ensure posters to have a slight clue.
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Why is RTS the problem ? How about SC2 just isn't good enough. Don't tell me SC2 can't be better. Only TvX matchups are exciting. ZvZvPvP are garbage, because guess what, Zerg and Protoss have so many units designed by the SC2 teams, whereas terran is mostly similar to BW. BW has very solid fundamental, and SC2 should have just tweaked from that. But Dustin Browder wanted to have his own legacy, so he went out of his way to create so many shitty units for protoss and zerg. He should have created another game entirely.
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MOBA : Lack of strategic depth
LOL
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EPT
