Alliance have made their official statement announcing NaNiwa's release from the team.
Alliance Manager KellyMilkies
We would like to officially announce today that we’re parting ways with Johan “NaNiwa” Lucchesi after over a year of service in our Alliance family.
Johan was more than just a player for us. He was a champion, an excellent training partner, and kept the foreign hope flame burning. Most importantly, he was a friend.
I remember when I first started managing him last year and during one of our talks he expressed an earnest desire to not only be the best foreign StaCraft II player, but the best in the world. That conversation stuck with me and today I am proud to call him not only one of the best foreign players that have ever competed, but truly one of the best that has ever played the game.
A few weeks ago shortly after withdrawing from ASUS ROG due to an illness, Johan came to me asking if he could take a break from StarCraft II for 4-6 months. During the last couple months, he was having a hard time finding motivation for the game and mentioned that he did not want to go to IEM. After some discussions we came to a mutual agreement that IEM World Championship in Katowice would be his last stage of his career for now as I felt he owed it to himself to compete after playing so hard at IEM New York. I urged him to take the next few days leading up to the event to practice in hopes he would rekindle his flame for the game since IEM is such a prestigious event. Sadly things didn’t go as any of us hoped, but we still gave it a shot.
Johan is without a doubt an extremely dedicated, hardworking, and talented player and I certainly believe he still has a lot left in him as a professional. But with his decision to take a break for at least six months to pursue another game, it will no longer be possible for Alliance to keep him on our StarCraft II squad. However, if he were to decide to return to competitive StarCraft II again, we would love to sit down and discuss another future together.
We at Alliance are extremely grateful for his contributions to our team and organization. He will always be part of our [A] family. Johan, we’ll definitely miss cheering for you and we wish you nothing but the best in your new adventures.
Sincerely,
Kelly Ong Xiao Wei Player and Account Manager for Alliance @kellymilkies
Statements from Alliance Players
Loda: When me and Johan just joined Alliance, I didn’t really know the guy and I did not know what to expect. But after being on the same team with him for over a year, I have grown to respect him immensely and I have really got to see that he is a true competitor and he takes his game very seriously. In person he has never been anything but extremely respectful and friendly and I have come to realize that I will miss cheering for this boy.
SortOf: Over the last year or two I’ve gotten to know Johan quite well. The community sees a lot of negative stuff around him which I think is sad. From my perspective there are a lot of good things about Johan and he’s one of the pro gamers I have the most respect for. Nothing is black and white and I wish him all the best in whatever he chooses to do from here.
Kelly: 3 facts about NaNiwa: - He’s dad is a doctor - He likes eating chocolate - He is a great flight partner to theory craft games with and actually has pretty good jokes.
Naniwa's statement hardly reads as though there was a 'mutual agreement or that it went this happily', very typical press statement, nothing to see here imho.
Ignoring what people say about Naniwa, he was truly a hard worker. You could see it pay off during tournaments such as IEM New York where he reverse sweeped Hyun and looked so happy. Glad to see that Naniwa didn't take his anger out on people personally. Someday, I would love to see the return of Naniwa!
Pretty vanilla, he didn't want to play, so they aren't keeping him on the team. If he changes his mind, he's back on the team. The logic (and lack of crazy illuminati conspiracy potential) is staggering
That's weird. Loda, and Naniwa would always get into fights on twitter a few months ago because Naniwa kept calling Dota casual. Maybe he changed his mind I suppose.
I really enjoyed watching Naniwa play. He is very creative. He innovated or developed many of the leading strategies. Just look at how many Day[9] Dailies focused on analyzing Naniwa's play! I'm sorry he lost his passion for Starcraft. I wish he could live in a team house with other dedicated foreigners and maybe a random mercenary Korean or two like MC or Stardust. He really seems to need a structured and supportive environment. Actually, it's too bad he never joined My-insanity since they have exactly that sort of team house in Switzerland. I hope Naniwa gets tired of MOBAs fast -- just like Marine King.
PS: this statement from Alliance is very classy. They seem to be very professional, and they didn't burn any bridges. That makes it easier for Naniwa to return someday.
Anybody familiar with corporate communications knows that when management issues a statement about a former employee, all the niceties and "compliments" have to be taken with a grain of salt. The mere fact that there is not the slightest hint at all the problems Naniwa has caused over time in that statement makes me very suspicious how genuine that statement really is. I hope they weren't serious.
On March 26 2014 12:59 Salient wrote: I really enjoyed watching Naniwa play. He is very creative. He innovated or developed many of the leading strategies. Just look at how many Day[9] Dailies focused on analyzing Naniwa's play! I'm sorry he lost his passion for Starcraft. I wish he could live in a team house with other dedicated foreigners and maybe a random mercenary Korean or two like MC or Stardust. He really seems to need a structured and supportive environment. Actually, it's too bad he never joined My-insanity since they have exactly that sort of team house in Switzerland. I hope Naniwa gets tired of MOBAs fast -- just like Marine King.
PS: this statement from Alliance is very classy. They seem to be very professional, and they didn't burn any bridges. That makes it easier for Naniwa to return someday.
That's not classy at all. An honest account of Naniwa's successes and problems would have been classy. The complete whitewash management released can't be taken seriously, and is most likely (and hopefully) not genuine.
On March 26 2014 12:59 Salient wrote: I really enjoyed watching Naniwa play. He is very creative. He innovated or developed many of the leading strategies. Just look at how many Day[9] Dailies focused on analyzing Naniwa's play! I'm sorry he lost his passion for Starcraft. I wish he could live in a team house with other dedicated foreigners and maybe a random mercenary Korean or two like MC or Stardust. He really seems to need a structured and supportive environment. Actually, it's too bad he never joined My-insanity since they have exactly that sort of team house in Switzerland. I hope Naniwa gets tired of MOBAs fast -- just like Marine King.
PS: this statement from Alliance is very classy. They seem to be very professional, and they didn't burn any bridges. That makes it easier for Naniwa to return someday.
That's not classy at all. An honest account of Naniwa's successes and problems would have been classy. The complete whitewash management released can't be taken seriously, and is most likely (and hopefully) not genuine.
Also the lack of grammar checking in a official statement is kind of irking.
Really nice statement. Could have made it a lot worse. I hope he does come back after a break though. I enjoyed his play.
So what game is Naniwa playing now? It can't be DOTA or LoL because Naniwa considers those to be "easy games" and he only likes challenging games ... what game could it be :o (clearly its LoL just a poke at Naniwa)
On March 26 2014 13:12 lichter wrote: I didn't know Kelly was Alliance's manager whut
Well she is dating the captain of the dota team and was acting as manager for the dota team before alliance picked them up, and continued to do so when they added a sc2 division, but for both games.
On March 26 2014 13:14 yawnoC wrote: Really nice statement. Could have made it a lot worse. I hope he does come back after a break though. I enjoyed his play.
So what game is Naniwa playing now?
probably minesweeper, I hear it's REALLY easy to ragequit there
So what game is Naniwa now persuing? I'd be curious to see how he performs. Though given the amount of dedication he has for himself to succeed, I can't see how he wouldn't find success so long as he's motivated to play the game.
On March 26 2014 13:14 yawnoC wrote: Really nice statement. Could have made it a lot worse. I hope he does come back after a break though. I enjoyed his play.
So what game is Naniwa playing now? It can't be DOTA or LoL because Naniwa considers those to be "easy games" and he only likes challenging games ... what game could it be :o (clearly its LoL just a poke at Naniwa)
Well, I suppose its cool Kelly is in management at Alliance, didn't know that. But this statement didn't capture anything that anyone actually wanted to know.
On March 26 2014 12:59 Salient wrote: I really enjoyed watching Naniwa play. He is very creative. He innovated or developed many of the leading strategies. Just look at how many Day[9] Dailies focused on analyzing Naniwa's play! I'm sorry he lost his passion for Starcraft. I wish he could live in a team house with other dedicated foreigners and maybe a random mercenary Korean or two like MC or Stardust. He really seems to need a structured and supportive environment. Actually, it's too bad he never joined My-insanity since they have exactly that sort of team house in Switzerland. I hope Naniwa gets tired of MOBAs fast -- just like Marine King.
PS: this statement from Alliance is very classy. They seem to be very professional, and they didn't burn any bridges. That makes it easier for Naniwa to return someday.
That's not classy at all. An honest account of Naniwa's successes and problems would have been classy. The complete whitewash management released can't be taken seriously, and is most likely (and hopefully) not genuine.
Also the lack of grammar checking in a official statement is kind of irking.
On March 26 2014 12:59 Salient wrote: I really enjoyed watching Naniwa play. He is very creative. He innovated or developed many of the leading strategies. Just look at how many Day[9] Dailies focused on analyzing Naniwa's play! I'm sorry he lost his passion for Starcraft. I wish he could live in a team house with other dedicated foreigners and maybe a random mercenary Korean or two like MC or Stardust. He really seems to need a structured and supportive environment. Actually, it's too bad he never joined My-insanity since they have exactly that sort of team house in Switzerland. I hope Naniwa gets tired of MOBAs fast -- just like Marine King.
PS: this statement from Alliance is very classy. They seem to be very professional, and they didn't burn any bridges. That makes it easier for Naniwa to return someday.
That's not classy at all. An honest account of Naniwa's successes and problems would have been classy. The complete whitewash management released can't be taken seriously, and is most likely (and hopefully) not genuine.
Maybe they would rather remember his positive side and part ways on a good note?
Not everyone loves being a drama llama. Granted naniwa had faults, granted they probably were not happy with what he did at iem. Regardless of what they were unhappy with, they dont have to hang alll his dirty laundry, burn all bridges and hang him at the stake. They applauded him for his positive side and kept it as that, but its not enough for Mr.Perfect?
im not defending his previous attitude or behaviour but all humans have defects and there is this famous saying of say something positive or remain silent
On March 26 2014 12:55 LayZM wrote: Naniwa's statement hardly reads as though there was a 'mutual agreement or that it went this happily', very typical press statement, nothing to see here imho.
These are businesses doing work, not high school drama.
On March 26 2014 12:59 Salient wrote: I really enjoyed watching Naniwa play. He is very creative. He innovated or developed many of the leading strategies. Just look at how many Day[9] Dailies focused on analyzing Naniwa's play! I'm sorry he lost his passion for Starcraft. I wish he could live in a team house with other dedicated foreigners and maybe a random mercenary Korean or two like MC or Stardust. He really seems to need a structured and supportive environment. Actually, it's too bad he never joined My-insanity since they have exactly that sort of team house in Switzerland. I hope Naniwa gets tired of MOBAs fast -- just like Marine King.
PS: this statement from Alliance is very classy. They seem to be very professional, and they didn't burn any bridges. That makes it easier for Naniwa to return someday.
That's not classy at all. An honest account of Naniwa's successes and problems would have been classy. The complete whitewash management released can't be taken seriously, and is most likely (and hopefully) not genuine.
Also the lack of grammar checking in a official statement is kind of irking.
Thats kellymilkies for you.
Singapore is supposed to have good English. Except when they start speaking in Singlish
"an excellent training partner" as long as he wins, because when he loses....
Also, that statement from Loda is kinda weird, in an interview when they became Alliance (the dota 2 team), he said that he liked him from a long time before (without knowing him) and he was kinda his fan, but when they first met in a tournament, Naniwa mostly sent him to... well, with child-protection words, to "a place far, far away"
But well, since I don't know what is Naniwa doing these days, I hope that statement "his decision to take a break for at least six months to pursue another game" is a metaphor, because I don't see him reaching too far in another game, at least not one that has team play.
On March 26 2014 12:59 Salient wrote: I really enjoyed watching Naniwa play. He is very creative. He innovated or developed many of the leading strategies. Just look at how many Day[9] Dailies focused on analyzing Naniwa's play! I'm sorry he lost his passion for Starcraft. I wish he could live in a team house with other dedicated foreigners and maybe a random mercenary Korean or two like MC or Stardust. He really seems to need a structured and supportive environment. Actually, it's too bad he never joined My-insanity since they have exactly that sort of team house in Switzerland. I hope Naniwa gets tired of MOBAs fast -- just like Marine King.
PS: this statement from Alliance is very classy. They seem to be very professional, and they didn't burn any bridges. That makes it easier for Naniwa to return someday.
That's not classy at all. An honest account of Naniwa's successes and problems would have been classy. The complete whitewash management released can't be taken seriously, and is most likely (and hopefully) not genuine.
Also the lack of grammar checking in a official statement is kind of irking.
Other than saying have instead of has, it just has a few commas/semicolons missing. It doesn't really matter.
3 facts about the SC2 community on Naniwa: 1) cant get over how naniwa thumbs-downed Nestea, and probe-rushed Nestea. 2) cant get over the fact that a foreign protoss is considered the best foreigner. (GG Terran and Zerg Tears) 3) last but not least, refuse to believe that Naniwa (the best foreigner) have the balls to show his opinion publicly and uncensored.
Deal with it all you Nani-haters. He is so far the best foreigner to have come to the scene.
This statement seems legit to me because you know a mutual agreement clearly includes someone feeling forced to do something and saying No 5 times before finally being threatened to shut up and go. I specifically like the "family" part, because as we all know when there is a disagreement within the family and threats don't work you kick the other person out.
Alliance clearly is all hugs and rainbows, I bet they even have pyjamas parties during weekends!
On March 26 2014 16:10 Advantageous wrote: 3 facts about the SC2 community on Naniwa: 1) cant get over how naniwa thumbs-downed Nestea, and probe-rushed Nestea. 2) cant get over the fact that a foreign protoss is considered the best foreigner. (GG Terran and Zerg Tears) 3) last but not least, refuse to believe that Naniwa (the best foreigner) have the balls to show his opinion publicly and uncensored.
Deal with it all you Nani-haters. He is so far the best foreigner to have come to the scene.
Being one of the best foreigners does not give him the right to act like an unprofessional whining brat. No one is doubting his skills in sc2, but his immature behavior has time and time again shown he is incapable of being a professional. No sponsors or team would want someone who quits just because he felt like it or insults the community for criticizing his highly questionable antics.
On March 26 2014 16:10 Advantageous wrote: 3 facts about the SC2 community on Naniwa: 1) cant get over how naniwa thumbs-downed Nestea, and probe-rushed Nestea. 2) cant get over the fact that a foreign protoss is considered the best foreigner. (GG Terran and Zerg Tears) 3) last but not least, refuse to believe that Naniwa (the best foreigner) have the balls to show his opinion publicly and uncensored.
Deal with it all you Nani-haters. He is so far the best foreigner to have come to the scene.
Your idol doesnt have half the achievements Stephano has. Well tried. At least the protoss whining part was fun.
Haters gonna hate. Naniwa you were without a shred of doubt the best foreign sc2 player and im gonna continue being a fan and follow whichever game you pick up (if any)
I am a bit amused that Naniwa made it sound like Alliance callously made him go to IEM, when it most likely was just a friendly conversation with KellyMilkies.
Despite the claims of the Dota2 community, I can't believe she's actually the anti-christ. ;o
But nice to get an official statement. Unlike the cynics in here who call dismiss this as empty PR, I think it's a fairly genuine statement to be honest.
Kelly has no disrespect against Johan. She tried to push him to go to IEM because of overhead pressure but she knew he had no passion for SC2. It was timely business-wise for Alliance, but as far as management goes there is no hate.
We'll never know the real story, but that doesn't matter. Even though he had an unique personality, I still hope he comes back and finds the motivation to play.
I don't see what Alliance does wrong here. It's known that Naniwa doesn't want to play SC2 anymore, so getting fired from Alliance is just sooner or later, with or without IEM event or not. Alliance wants to use the IEM event as the last decision to let Naniwa go. It doesn't matter if the event is IEM, Dreamhack, WCS, it's gonna happen sooner or later.
On March 26 2014 16:10 Advantageous wrote: 3 facts about the SC2 community on Naniwa: 1) cant get over how naniwa thumbs-downed Nestea, and probe-rushed Nestea. 2) cant get over the fact that a foreign protoss is considered the best foreigner. (GG Terran and Zerg Tears) 3) last but not least, refuse to believe that Naniwa (the best foreigner) have the balls to show his opinion publicly and uncensored.
Deal with it all you Nani-haters. He is so far the best foreigner to have come to the scene.
Your idol doesnt have half the achievements Stephano has. Well tried. At least the protoss whining part was fun.
he also doesn't have qite as much talent as either scarlett or stephano in my opinion.
he is still the second best foreigner in achievements though. very close to stephano depending on how much you value GSL Ro8 twice.
On March 26 2014 12:59 Salient wrote: I really enjoyed watching Naniwa play. He is very creative. He innovated or developed many of the leading strategies. Just look at how many Day[9] Dailies focused on analyzing Naniwa's play! I'm sorry he lost his passion for Starcraft. I wish he could live in a team house with other dedicated foreigners and maybe a random mercenary Korean or two like MC or Stardust. He really seems to need a structured and supportive environment. Actually, it's too bad he never joined My-insanity since they have exactly that sort of team house in Switzerland. I hope Naniwa gets tired of MOBAs fast -- just like Marine King.
PS: this statement from Alliance is very classy. They seem to be very professional, and they didn't burn any bridges. That makes it easier for Naniwa to return someday.
That's not classy at all. An honest account of Naniwa's successes and problems would have been classy. The complete whitewash management released can't be taken seriously, and is most likely (and hopefully) not genuine.
Also the lack of grammar checking in a official statement is kind of irking.
Thats kellymilkies for you.
Singapore is supposed to have good English. Except when they start speaking in Singlish
Sweden is supposed to have good english too, then you hear my dad trying to speak to my sister's scottish boyfriend.
I still suspect things did go kinda south at the end of it all, but this is a great and supportive official statement from Alliance. Also makes it seem more plausible that everyone on Alliance including Naniwa really did get along and that there are no hard feelings.
Positive statements, supportive words, lack of drama. A shining gem in the sc2 landscape Kudos Alliance.
On March 26 2014 13:12 lichter wrote: I didn't know Kelly was Alliance's manager whut
Very shocked at that revelation as well, after the moonglade/huk saga.
Oh well, personal reservations are just that, personal reservations. Alliance has the guts to separate personal life from professional capacities I guess.
On March 26 2014 13:12 lichter wrote: I didn't know Kelly was Alliance's manager whut
Very shocked at that revelation as well, after the moonglade/huk saga.
Oh well, personal reservations are just that, personal reservations. Alliance has the guts to separate personal life from professional capacities I guess.
On March 26 2014 16:10 Advantageous wrote: 3 facts about the SC2 community on Naniwa: 1) cant get over how naniwa thumbs-downed Nestea, and probe-rushed Nestea. 2) cant get over the fact that a foreign protoss is considered the best foreigner. (GG Terran and Zerg Tears) 3) last but not least, refuse to believe that Naniwa (the best foreigner) have the balls to show his opinion publicly and uncensored.
Deal with it all you Nani-haters. He is so far the best foreigner to have come to the scene.
Your idol doesnt have half the achievements Stephano has. Well tried. At least the protoss whining part was fun.
Now that explains why it took them so long. I guess most of this was reworded 5+ times by Garfield, but I'm still shocked that it comes of so positively towards Nani.
I hope he finds his motivation again, Nani was among like 3-4 foreigners that I actually even cared about and was interested in watching their games. He and Huk spent by far the most time in Korea among all foreigners and I will always respect both of them for doing so. I don't care much for all this drama crap, any player may forfeit and if he felt like that was the best possible decision for him at that point in time, I respect that. Also he at least cared about the competition and didn't keep not practicing/partying/saying he was only in it for the money like Stephano.
On March 26 2014 16:10 Advantageous wrote: 3 facts about the SC2 community on Naniwa: 1) cant get over how naniwa thumbs-downed Nestea, and probe-rushed Nestea. 2) cant get over the fact that a foreign protoss is considered the best foreigner. (GG Terran and Zerg Tears) 3) last but not least, refuse to believe that Naniwa (the best foreigner) have the balls to show his opinion publicly and uncensored.
Deal with it all you Nani-haters. He is so far the best foreigner to have come to the scene.
Your idol doesnt have half the achievements Stephano has. Well tried. At least the protoss whining part was fun.
So I heard about this GSL thing
Swedish poster so you must be talking about Jinro then? =p
if 5 different Naniwa threads compose the top 5 of the SC2 General section for a while then i think Johan will consider his IEM shenanigans to be "mission accomplished".
now htat he has retired do we refer to him as Johan or Naniwa?
On March 26 2014 16:10 Advantageous wrote: 3 facts about the SC2 community on Naniwa: 1) cant get over how naniwa thumbs-downed Nestea, and probe-rushed Nestea. 2) cant get over the fact that a foreign protoss is considered the best foreigner. (GG Terran and Zerg Tears) 3) last but not least, refuse to believe that Naniwa (the best foreigner) have the balls to show his opinion publicly and uncensored.
Deal with it all you Nani-haters. He is so far the best foreigner to have come to the scene.
Your idol doesnt have half the achievements Stephano has. Well tried. At least the protoss whining part was fun.
So I heard about this GSL thing
Swedish poster so you must be talking about Jinro then? =p
Well I can talk about that aswell But that was very early in SC2, and one could argue that it was a different time. Naniwa went RO8 when it was more "figured out"... and what happened when Stephano tried? (also note that Naniwa was 1 map away form winning DRG, and could then cruise on his at the time good pvp to a championship)
On March 26 2014 18:51 lamprey1 wrote: if 5 different Naniwa threads compose the top 5 of the SC2 General section for a while then i think Johan will consider his IEM shenanigans to be "mission accomplished".
now htat he has retired do we refer to him as Johan or Naniwa?
On March 26 2014 16:10 Advantageous wrote: 3 facts about the SC2 community on Naniwa: 1) cant get over how naniwa thumbs-downed Nestea, and probe-rushed Nestea. 2) cant get over the fact that a foreign protoss is considered the best foreigner. (GG Terran and Zerg Tears) 3) last but not least, refuse to believe that Naniwa (the best foreigner) have the balls to show his opinion publicly and uncensored.
Deal with it all you Nani-haters. He is so far the best foreigner to have come to the scene.
Your idol doesnt have half the achievements Stephano has. Well tried. At least the protoss whining part was fun.
So I heard about this GSL thing
Swedish poster so you must be talking about Jinro then? =p
Well I can talk about that aswell But that was very early in SC2, and one could argue that it was a different time. Naniwa went RO8 when it was more "figured out"... and what happened when Stephano tried? (also note that Naniwa was 1 map away form winning DRG, and could cruise on his at the time good pvp to a championship)
ok really, naniwa failed twice before he even got into code s, it took him a lot of time to even start performing in gsl
stephano went there once and lost in a group with innovation and DRG. You can't use this as an argument against stephano, it's just blind fanboyism.
On March 26 2014 16:10 Advantageous wrote: 3 facts about the SC2 community on Naniwa: 1) cant get over how naniwa thumbs-downed Nestea, and probe-rushed Nestea. 2) cant get over the fact that a foreign protoss is considered the best foreigner. (GG Terran and Zerg Tears) 3) last but not least, refuse to believe that Naniwa (the best foreigner) have the balls to show his opinion publicly and uncensored.
Deal with it all you Nani-haters. He is so far the best foreigner to have come to the scene.
Your idol doesnt have half the achievements Stephano has. Well tried. At least the protoss whining part was fun.
So I heard about this GSL thing
Swedish poster so you must be talking about Jinro then? =p
Well I can talk about that aswell But that was very early in SC2, and one could argue that it was a different time. Naniwa went RO8 when it was more "figured out"... and what happened when Stephano tried? (also note that Naniwa was 1 map away form winning DRG, and could cruise on his at the time good pvp to a championship)
ok really, naniwa failed twice before he even got into code s, it took him a lot of time to even start performing in gsl
stephano went there once and lost in a group with innovation and DRG. You can't use this as an argument against stephano, it's just blind fanboyism.
I don't think it works out that way; what is significant is that Naniwa actually could make a splash in the top league, and Stephano failied fataly. Out of context or not, this is the reality of the situation. I'm not even defending him, just stating obvious things
On March 26 2014 16:10 Advantageous wrote: 3 facts about the SC2 community on Naniwa: 1) cant get over how naniwa thumbs-downed Nestea, and probe-rushed Nestea. 2) cant get over the fact that a foreign protoss is considered the best foreigner. (GG Terran and Zerg Tears) 3) last but not least, refuse to believe that Naniwa (the best foreigner) have the balls to show his opinion publicly and uncensored.
Deal with it all you Nani-haters. He is so far the best foreigner to have come to the scene.
Your idol doesnt have half the achievements Stephano has. Well tried. At least the protoss whining part was fun.
So I heard about this GSL thing
Swedish poster so you must be talking about Jinro then? =p
Well I can talk about that aswell But that was very early in SC2, and one could argue that it was a different time. Naniwa went RO8 when it was more "figured out"... and what happened when Stephano tried? (also note that Naniwa was 1 map away form winning DRG, and could cruise on his at the time good pvp to a championship)
ok really, naniwa failed twice before he even got into code s, it took him a lot of time to even start performing in gsl
stephano went there once and lost in a group with innovation and DRG. You can't use this as an argument against stephano, it's just blind fanboyism.
I don't think it works out that way; what is significant is that Naniwa actually could make a splash in the top league, and Stephano failied fataly. Out of context or not, this is the reality of the situation. I'm not even defending him, just stating obvious things
playing once and losing to drg and innovation isnt failing. really, you're not doing nanners any favors with these posts, you just make his fanboys look blind
Stephano tried GSL only 1 time when he felt miserable in Korea. Stephano did actually win mulitiple championships. Stephano is without a doubt the best foreigner sc2 has known so far.
It aint all sunshine and rainbows. I really believe this statement is as we all know - full of shit - . I would prefer to call it anything but that, but this really sickens me. You kicked your player - for obvious reason - and now you make it sound like a mutual agreement.
I hold no grudge against Alliance nor Naniwa, but those few lines full of lies are really sickening
On March 26 2014 16:10 Advantageous wrote: 3 facts about the SC2 community on Naniwa: 1) cant get over how naniwa thumbs-downed Nestea, and probe-rushed Nestea. 2) cant get over the fact that a foreign protoss is considered the best foreigner. (GG Terran and Zerg Tears) 3) last but not least, refuse to believe that Naniwa (the best foreigner) have the balls to show his opinion publicly and uncensored.
Deal with it all you Nani-haters. He is so far the best foreigner to have come to the scene.
Your idol doesnt have half the achievements Stephano has. Well tried. At least the protoss whining part was fun.
So I heard about this GSL thing
Swedish poster so you must be talking about Jinro then? =p
Well I can talk about that aswell But that was very early in SC2, and one could argue that it was a different time. Naniwa went RO8 when it was more "figured out"... and what happened when Stephano tried? (also note that Naniwa was 1 map away form winning DRG, and could then cruise on his at the time good pvp to a championship)
Naniwa did back to back R8's when the game was more figured out, but Jinro, TLO, Idra, HuK managed to play in GSL without charity placements, which Naniwa needed 3 of before his breakthrough (and no foreigner has made code S by completing the qualifiers since HuK*, although he got to skip Code B when he did it).
I agree that the quality of play was better when Naniwa played than when Jinro did, but I don't equate that with the level of competition. After all MC, Nestea, MVP, MKP, Polt, Leenock and a few others from that era stayed relevant pretty much for all of WoL (in fact looking at that list I think all of those guys have played both Jinro and Naniwa.. I believe Jinro got crushed by them minus when he dominated pre-Optimus Polt, while Naniwa more than held his own so he has that argument).
* Mana qualified for Code S without a direct seed, but he skipped code A and was put in the Up/Down's so almost. Also I totally understand that nowadays foreign players don't just give up overseas careers to try for GSL like back then when it was the only consistent major tournament. So pretty much we'll *only* see foreigners playing GSL now if they get seeded.
On March 26 2014 19:03 NxSs wrote: Stephano tried GSL only 1 time when he felt miserable in Korea. Stephano did actually win mulitiple championships. Stephano is without a doubt the best foreigner sc2 has known so far.
All the best to Naniwa though, GL in LoL.
Stephano is also the only foreigner to have a positive record in proleague? Naniwa is one of the best foreigners, just not the best
On March 26 2014 19:03 NxSs wrote: Stephano tried GSL only 1 time when he felt miserable in Korea. Stephano did actually win mulitiple championships. Stephano is without a doubt the best foreigner sc2 has known so far.
All the best to Naniwa though, GL in LoL.
He also tried for Blizz cup before that. To me, back to back ro8 against the best players in the world will always be > winning foreign events against ok Koreans and foreign players. Also, nani wanting to win and be the best vs stephano being in it for the money also makes me favor nani. Especially when there are hundreds of Koreans sacrificing everything and even sometimes being dishonored by their families for a chance to compete and then spending 1+ years in the practice house before they even get to play a single televised game. To me Stephano will always be the cocky guy who spit on all proper progamers with his awful and unprofessional attitude, but I guess people prefer "personalities" over actual competitors anyway.
On March 26 2014 19:03 NxSs wrote: Stephano tried GSL only 1 time when he felt miserable in Korea. Stephano did actually win mulitiple championships. Stephano is without a doubt the best foreigner sc2 has known so far.
All the best to Naniwa though, GL in LoL.
He also tried for Blizz cup before that. To me, back to back ro8 against the best players in the world will always be > winning foreign events against ok Koreans and foreign players. Also, nani wanting to win and be the best vs stephano being in it for the money also makes me favor nani. Especially when there are hundreds of Koreans sacrificing everything and even sometimes being dishonored by their families for a chance to compete and then spending 1+ years in the practice house before they even get to play a single televised game. To me Stephano will always be the cocky guy who spit on all proper progamers with his awful and unprofessional attitude, but I guess people prefer "personalities" over actual competitors anyway.
Sure, Naniwa's behavior is above any criticism. Wait, what are we talking about???
On March 26 2014 19:03 NxSs wrote: Stephano tried GSL only 1 time when he felt miserable in Korea. Stephano did actually win mulitiple championships. Stephano is without a doubt the best foreigner sc2 has known so far.
All the best to Naniwa though, GL in LoL.
He also tried for Blizz cup before that. To me, back to back ro8 against the best players in the world will always be > winning foreign events against ok Koreans and foreign players. Also, nani wanting to win and be the best vs stephano being in it for the money also makes me favor nani. Especially when there are hundreds of Koreans sacrificing everything and even sometimes being dishonored by their families for a chance to compete and then spending 1+ years in the practice house before they even get to play a single televised game. To me Stephano will always be the cocky guy who spit on all proper progamers with his awful and unprofessional attitude, but I guess people prefer "personalities" over actual competitors anyway.
Sure, Naniwa's behavior is above any criticism. Wait, what are we talking about???
Well to me probe rushing nestea, bitching about MLG/nestea and forfeiting IEM isn't even close to Stephano's attitude, but I think everyone has their own moral standards anyway.
On March 26 2014 16:10 Advantageous wrote: 3 facts about the SC2 community on Naniwa: 1) cant get over how naniwa thumbs-downed Nestea, and probe-rushed Nestea. 2) cant get over the fact that a foreign protoss is considered the best foreigner. (GG Terran and Zerg Tears) 3) last but not least, refuse to believe that Naniwa (the best foreigner) have the balls to show his opinion publicly and uncensored.
Deal with it all you Nani-haters. He is so far the best foreigner to have come to the scene.
We'll settle at second best. Not up for discussion.
This is a very nice statement, way more positive than I had expected. It shows a good attitude and character to part in grace even if it is not amicably and to not talk shit about the former partner/employee/employer, good job Alliance!
On March 26 2014 19:03 NxSs wrote: Stephano tried GSL only 1 time when he felt miserable in Korea. Stephano did actually win mulitiple championships. Stephano is without a doubt the best foreigner sc2 has known so far.
All the best to Naniwa though, GL in LoL.
He also tried for Blizz cup before that. To me, back to back ro8 against the best players in the world will always be > winning foreign events against ok Koreans and foreign players. Also, nani wanting to win and be the best vs stephano being in it for the money also makes me favor nani. Especially when there are hundreds of Koreans sacrificing everything and even sometimes being dishonored by their families for a chance to compete and then spending 1+ years in the practice house before they even get to play a single televised game. To me Stephano will always be the cocky guy who spit on all proper progamers with his awful and unprofessional attitude, but I guess people prefer "personalities" over actual competitors anyway.
While I see your point here, IPL3 included not only OK koreans (which I assume covers i.e. 2011 PuMa, good enough player to win NASL2 around that time),slayers`Ryung or ogsTheStC but also 2011 MMA(!), MC (who was still good enough around that time to i.e. get to semifinal of Blizzard Cup). So the opposition was rather above "OK koreans".
On March 26 2014 19:03 NxSs wrote: Stephano tried GSL only 1 time when he felt miserable in Korea. Stephano did actually win mulitiple championships. Stephano is without a doubt the best foreigner sc2 has known so far.
All the best to Naniwa though, GL in LoL.
He also tried for Blizz cup before that. To me, back to back ro8 against the best players in the world will always be > winning foreign events against ok Koreans and foreign players. Also, nani wanting to win and be the best vs stephano being in it for the money also makes me favor nani. Especially when there are hundreds of Koreans sacrificing everything and even sometimes being dishonored by their families for a chance to compete and then spending 1+ years in the practice house before they even get to play a single televised game. To me Stephano will always be the cocky guy who spit on all proper progamers with his awful and unprofessional attitude, but I guess people prefer "personalities" over actual competitors anyway.
While I see your point here, IPL3 included not only OK koreans (which I assume covers i.e. 2011 PuMa, good enough player to win NASL2 around that time),slayers`Ryung or ogsTheStC but also 2011 MMA(!), MC (who was still good enough around that time to i.e. get to semifinal of Blizzard Cup). So the opposition was rather above "OK koreans".
Out of all the players you namend, Stephano only played vs STC at that tournament. Though he did beat Violet, but afaik that was before violet became the top player he was in 2012. Other than that, he won vs Inori, Kiwikaki and Lucky.
On March 26 2014 19:00 lowdice wrote: Why is this community so desperate for drama?=/
I love the people complaining that alliance didn't discribe all the issues that had with Naniwa and that the that the statement was to "PR"
Guess what, at a normal job, they don't tell you why they fire people. And they don't released PR statements flaming the person on the way out. That would be totally unprofessional.
On March 26 2014 19:06 NarutO wrote: It aint all sunshine and rainbows. I really believe this statement is as we all know - full of shit - . I would prefer to call it anything but that, but this really sickens me. You kicked your player - for obvious reason - and now you make it sound like a mutual agreement.
I hold no grudge against Alliance nor Naniwa, but those few lines full of lies are really sickening
The situation probably wouldn't have been different if you disregard the events from IEM. There is no reason for Alliance to keep a player on their team that is no longer even playing the game. Perhaps they would have let him stay on the team as an inactive member if it wasn't for IEM but I really doubt it, theres no reason to keep him on the team if he is not even playing and not contributing to the team at all.
For the sake of e-sports and their sponsors, they should have taken a clear stance that his behavior is not acceptable.
FACTS: He gets paid to play. He throws games. He stopped working for a month, because he didn't feel like it.
In any other professional environment he would be terminated, not "we could no longer keep him". Is it ok? for the other alliance players(or any professional players?) to behave as he does?
Personally I think the only difference between Naniwa and most people is that he says what most of think but don't say and honestly I think that probably makes him a better person that I. Maybe his attitude isn't the best and maybe he can be rude at times but at least with Naniwa we all know exactly where he stands.
On March 26 2014 20:07 StackerTwo wrote: For the sake of e-sports and their sponsors, they should have taken a clear stance that his behavior is not acceptable.
FACTS: He gets paid to play. He throws games. He stopped working for a month, because he didn't feel like it.
In any other professional environment he would be terminated, not "we could no longer keep him". Is it ok? for the other alliance players(or any professional players?) to behave as he does?
I don't know, Tevez managed to turn "getting paid to do nothing" into a fine art.
On March 26 2014 19:03 NxSs wrote: Stephano tried GSL only 1 time when he felt miserable in Korea. Stephano did actually win mulitiple championships. Stephano is without a doubt the best foreigner sc2 has known so far.
All the best to Naniwa though, GL in LoL.
He also tried for Blizz cup before that. To me, back to back ro8 against the best players in the world will always be > winning foreign events against ok Koreans and foreign players. Also, nani wanting to win and be the best vs stephano being in it for the money also makes me favor nani. Especially when there are hundreds of Koreans sacrificing everything and even sometimes being dishonored by their families for a chance to compete and then spending 1+ years in the practice house before they even get to play a single televised game. To me Stephano will always be the cocky guy who spit on all proper progamers with his awful and unprofessional attitude, but I guess people prefer "personalities" over actual competitors anyway.
While I see your point here, IPL3 included not only OK koreans (which I assume covers i.e. 2011 PuMa, good enough player to win NASL2 around that time),slayers`Ryung or ogsTheStC but also 2011 MMA(!), MC (who was still good enough around that time to i.e. get to semifinal of Blizzard Cup). So the opposition was rather above "OK koreans".
Out of all the players you namend, Stephano only played vs STC at that tournament. Though he did beat Violet, but afaik that was before violet became the top player he was in 2012. Other than that, he won vs Inori, Kiwikaki and Lucky.
Irrelevant. They participated - the point is that IPL3 line-up wasn't a pushover and Stephano won. If you start counting established opponents then you can't start to argue that i.e. jjakji's GSL isn't "true" GSL because en route to championship the only top-notch opponent he defeate was Leenock in the final etc.
On March 26 2014 19:03 NxSs wrote: Stephano tried GSL only 1 time when he felt miserable in Korea. Stephano did actually win mulitiple championships. Stephano is without a doubt the best foreigner sc2 has known so far.
All the best to Naniwa though, GL in LoL.
He also tried for Blizz cup before that. To me, back to back ro8 against the best players in the world will always be > winning foreign events against ok Koreans and foreign players. Also, nani wanting to win and be the best vs stephano being in it for the money also makes me favor nani. Especially when there are hundreds of Koreans sacrificing everything and even sometimes being dishonored by their families for a chance to compete and then spending 1+ years in the practice house before they even get to play a single televised game. To me Stephano will always be the cocky guy who spit on all proper progamers with his awful and unprofessional attitude, but I guess people prefer "personalities" over actual competitors anyway.
While I see your point here, IPL3 included not only OK koreans (which I assume covers i.e. 2011 PuMa, good enough player to win NASL2 around that time),slayers`Ryung or ogsTheStC but also 2011 MMA(!), MC (who was still good enough around that time to i.e. get to semifinal of Blizzard Cup). So the opposition was rather above "OK koreans".
Out of all the players you namend, Stephano only played vs STC at that tournament. Though he did beat Violet, but afaik that was before violet became the top player he was in 2012. Other than that, he won vs Inori, Kiwikaki and Lucky.
Irrelevant. They participated - the point is that IPL3 line-up wasn't a pushover and Stephano won. If you start counting established opponents then you can't start to argue that i.e. jjakji's GSL isn't "true" GSL because en route to championship the only top-notch opponent he defeate was Leenock in the final etc.
I never said that stephano's IPL win wasn't a "true" IPL win. My only point was that I value results in Korea, even if they are "only" ro8 in gsl, higher than any results in foreign tournaments. Obviously Jjakji's GSL doesn't value as highly as say Life's royal road. The same way as Naniwa dominating the first MLG of 2011 isn't even close to being as impressive as say Leenock's National Championship win. And it was argued that that IPL should be held in high regards due to the lineup, however I don't see how that should matter when Stephano didn't even play any top players at that event.
Nice statement. It doesn't matter to me if anything else went on behind the scenes right now. I'm just waiting for NaNiwas return to see what happens.
I wouldn't argue that Stephanos got lesser results than NaNiwa in foreign events, but the GSL weighs heavy and makes the comparison a lot more close than it should have otherwise in terms of success. I don't buy the argument that Stephano only tried once in GSL since that in my opinion sounds more like he wanted money in foreign events than sacrificing a lot of time like NaNiwa in Korea.
On March 26 2014 12:49 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote: - He’s dad is a doctor
For some reason reading stuff like this completely erases anything positive I've been reading from the same person in the same thread. Whatever, it's just useless PR stuff anyway, what matters are facts and facts only.
Hopefully this will be the last Naniwa-related Thread for a while (until he comes back, we all know it - Unless he finds another SOLO game (No way in hell he can play LoL/DotA or any teamplay game)) but i doubt it...
He is retired for now, there is nothing more to dicuss. Let's not turn this into a IdrA/Destiny situation one more time. When/If he comes back, then there is something to discuss
Did I interpret that wrong or did she call Naniwa one of the best players ever to play the game? One of the best foreigners, sure. But one of the best ever to play the game? Sorry, not really.
On March 26 2014 22:08 Okee wrote: Did I interpret that wrong or did she call Naniwa one of the best players ever to play the game? One of the best foreigners, sure. But one of the best ever to play the game? Sorry, not really.
That entire statement is just Kelly doing PR with the same level of quality as casting GSL back in the day. Both efforts are laughably terrible all around, but hey, at least she tried.
On March 26 2014 22:29 RoyW wrote: Nice professional sentiment on a contentious issue. Kelly's been Alliance's Dota manager since befoe they were sponsered by Alliance.
There's some bashing of grammar within the article. What's so terrible about it, nothing stands out to me?
I think what most people have beef with is the fact that it's, as per usual, nothing more than fluff and positivity all around, that offers very little insight as to why a certain decision was made in terms of providing new, relevant details. Granted, nobody's expecting (or should be expecting) the press release to shit all over Naniwa or even paint him as the bad guy in all of this, but it's fairly clear that a lot of the details surrounding this incident and its causes were not touched upon, even the ones that Naniwa himself alleged in the posts he made in his fanclub thread, or were deliberately omitted.
And again, I don't think any of the reasonable people expects or would event want for such a press release to add more fuel to the fire, although it would certainly be nice if they could discuss what exactly happened and how it went down, rather than be just another "oh hey guys we were super good friends all along but we kinda had to part ways for some reason that we'll only very vaguely kinda mention in a manner that may or may not accurately portray what went on behind the scenes, but we're still super good friends though!". Most teams do this whenever something happens, Fnatic seem to be the only ones in the SC2 scene with the balls to actually say "you know what this guy simply didn't do a good enough job for our standards and we decided it's best to let him go" and that's something I couldn't possibly not respect, and something that we need a hell lot more of, rather than empty, meaningless fluff.
tl;dr: I personally don't want a press release that shits on the other party, and I do not feel entitled to knowing the truth about such an issue, but a company that actually has the guts to publicly disclose at least some relevant information regarding an incident like this deserves a lot more respect than a company who just puts out meaningless PR bullshit. Feel free to disagree.
On March 26 2014 12:56 Salazarz wrote: Of course they're going to be positive, not everyone is a Naniwa :p
Exactly, this is pretty boilerplate. I don't know how productive it will be "to sit down and discuss another future together." for either side. Naniwa is definitely top 3 foreigners ever, but best SC2 players ever? Maybe there was a time, but now he wouldn't even rank in my top 25.
Great games and great memories, but I'm not sad he is moving on because he has lost his motivation which was one of the things I truly admired him for. It's better for him to stick with his passions, so I wish him well for whatever comes next though I doubt I will follow his journey past this point.
On March 26 2014 16:10 Advantageous wrote: 3 facts about the SC2 community on Naniwa: 1) cant get over how naniwa thumbs-downed Nestea, and probe-rushed Nestea. 2) cant get over the fact that a foreign protoss is considered the best foreigner. (GG Terran and Zerg Tears) 3) last but not least, refuse to believe that Naniwa (the best foreigner) have the balls to show his opinion publicly and uncensored.
Deal with it all you Nani-haters. He is so far the best foreigner to have come to the scene.
Your idol doesnt have half the achievements Stephano has. Well tried. At least the protoss whining part was fun.
he also doesn't have qite as much talent as either scarlett or stephano in my opinion.
he is still the second best foreigner in achievements though. very close to stephano depending on how much you value GSL Ro8 twice.
the gsl is the be-all-end-all, you can't call yourself the best foreigner if you haven't even been to gsl. Stephano knew he had little to no chance in gsl, that's why he never bothered going, only playing tournaments he was likely to win
On March 26 2014 22:29 RoyW wrote: Nice professional sentiment on a contentious issue. Kelly's been Alliance's Dota manager since befoe they were sponsered by Alliance.
There's some bashing of grammar within the article. What's so terrible about it, nothing stands out to me?
tl;dr: I personally don't want a press release that shits on the other party, and I do not feel entitled to knowing the truth about such an issue, but a company that actually has the guts to publicly disclose at least some relevant information regarding an incident like this deserves a lot more respect than a company who just puts out meaningless PR bullshit. Feel free to disagree.
I think it's very unfair, or just plain immature, to call Alliance's statement "Meaningless PR bullshit". In any capacity in the professional world,you don't take a giant shit on a former employee, unless extreme circumstances occur. The response subtly addresses the issue without allowing misinterpretation or stoking ridiculous internet drama.
In the statement, Alliance:
Express regret that Naniwa wants to move on Express thanks for the work and achievements during his time on the team Keep the door open for a return if and when Naniwa may come back into the game
What exactly would you have wanted Alliance to say to stop it from being "Meaningless PR bullshit"? It's a commendable sentiment, and Alliance/Kelly should be lauded for their professional handling of it.
On March 26 2014 23:42 RoyW wrote: In any capacity in the professional world,you don't take a giant shit on a former employee
I'm dumbfounded that I left not one, not two, but three disclaimers in my post and somehow you still managed to misinterpret what I said.
Being professional and providing accurate, relevant, real information in your press release following an incident are not mutually exclusive concepts though.
Glad it ended on a positive note. Sucks to see great players quitting. But if you aren't happy don't play it anymore. I wonder which foreigner will rise up to help save the scene? Liquid Bunny USA USA USA :D
On March 26 2014 23:42 RoyW wrote: In any capacity in the professional world,you don't take a giant shit on a former employee
I'm dumbfounded that I left not one, not two, but three disclaimers in my post and somehow you still managed to misinterpret what I said.
Being professional and providing accurate, relevant, real information in your press release following an incident are not mutually exclusive concepts though.
Airing dirty laundry, no matter how "respectful" or "accurate" you put it, is pretty low and the opposite of professional for an organization, and is sort of things that can seriously jeopardize their ability to attract future opportunities.
On March 26 2014 23:42 RoyW wrote: In any capacity in the professional world,you don't take a giant shit on a former employee
I'm dumbfounded that I left not one, not two, but three disclaimers in my post and somehow you still managed to misinterpret what I said.
Being professional and providing accurate, relevant, real information in your press release following an incident are not mutually exclusive concepts though.
What exactly would you have wanted Alliance to say to stop it from being "Meaningless PR bullshit"?
lol @ alliance telling everything just the way it happened and being extremely professional about everything and emphasizing that it was a sh*tty situation to begin with... and ppl b*tching because there isn't MORE drama and hate to talk about. Am I in a posh girl cliche in high school?
On March 26 2014 13:12 lichter wrote: I didn't know Kelly was Alliance's manager whut
Very shocked at that revelation as well, after the moonglade/huk saga.
Oh well, personal reservations are just that, personal reservations. Alliance has the guts to separate personal life from professional capacities I guess.
what saga? have i missed sc2 drama?
If no one has replied to you regarding this: well, yes, I think you've missed quite a bit. It's not very nice to bring this up again when it's a couple of years back, so you should Google her username (most sites chronicling the scandals and general discontentment are still up).
On March 26 2014 13:55 Waxangel wrote: I hope NaNiwa becomes a top tier LoL player so he can have interactions with Carmac forever
Naniwa is such a good team player and flexible to adjust to playing with other people,so I have no doubt he could achieve greatness in LoL as well
So true... Even Naniboys must be able to see this.
The funny thing is that you never was in a team with him.
Anyway, great statements and interviews both from Alliance and Naniwa.
Good luck to Naniwa in whatever he is going to do next.
Funny thing is neither were you. LMFAO... I guess you must respond every negative post about Naniwa with a bait.
And you would think the statements and interviews aren't completely PR motivated.
PR stands for public relations and we can safely say that all public statements made by a company are PR motivated. Their intent isn't to damage the relationship with the public.
Some folks really need to wrap their head around the idea that a buisness has zero modivation to get into a flame war with a former employee. Literally zero. They just want to move on and focus on other things. That is why statements like these are positive and doesn't focus on the drama. Because Alliance just wants to move forward.
On March 26 2014 23:42 RoyW wrote: In any capacity in the professional world,you don't take a giant shit on a former employee
I'm dumbfounded that I left not one, not two, but three disclaimers in my post and somehow you still managed to misinterpret what I said.
Being professional and providing accurate, relevant, real information in your press release following an incident are not mutually exclusive concepts though.
What exactly would you have wanted Alliance to say to stop it from being "Meaningless PR bullshit"?
FULL DISCLOSURE & TRANSPARENCY! Alliance needs to release all the contracts, all the skype messages, everything, otherwise the PR statement will mean nothing!
On March 26 2014 13:55 Waxangel wrote: I hope NaNiwa becomes a top tier LoL player so he can have interactions with Carmac forever
Naniwa is such a good team player and flexible to adjust to playing with other people,so I have no doubt he could achieve greatness in LoL as well
So true... Even Naniboys must be able to see this.
The funny thing is that you never was in a team with him.
Anyway, great statements and interviews both from Alliance and Naniwa.
Good luck to Naniwa in whatever he is going to do next.
Funny thing is neither were you. LMFAO... I guess you must respond every negative post about Naniwa with a bait.
And you would think the statements and interviews aren't completely PR motivated.
PR stands for public relations and we can safely say that all public statements made by a company are PR motivated. Their intent isn't to damage the relationship with the public.
Some folks really need to wrap their head around the idea that a buisness has zero modivation to get into a flame war with a former employee. Literally zero. They just want to move on and focus on other things. That is why statements like these are positive and doesn't focus on the drama. Because Alliance just wants to move forward.
Actually the whole point of this Naniwa case is about non profesionnalism of a player and non understanding of professionalism by a whole bunch of viewers.
To make it clear as my english sucks: I completely agree with you and a lot of people should understand that pro means more that "wow, cool, I'm paid to play video games!".
On March 26 2014 13:55 Waxangel wrote: I hope NaNiwa becomes a top tier LoL player so he can have interactions with Carmac forever
Naniwa is such a good team player and flexible to adjust to playing with other people,so I have no doubt he could achieve greatness in LoL as well
So true... Even Naniboys must be able to see this.
The funny thing is that you never was in a team with him.
Anyway, great statements and interviews both from Alliance and Naniwa.
Good luck to Naniwa in whatever he is going to do next.
Funny thing is neither were you. LMFAO... I guess you must respond every negative post about Naniwa with a bait.
And you would think the statements and interviews aren't completely PR motivated.
PR stands for public relations and we can safely say that all public statements made by a company are PR motivated. Their intent isn't to damage the relationship with the public.
Some folks really need to wrap their head around the idea that a buisness has zero modivation to get into a flame war with a former employee. Literally zero. They just want to move on and focus on other things. That is why statements like these are positive and doesn't focus on the drama. Because Alliance just wants to move forward.
Actually the whole point of this Naniwa case is about non profesionnalism of a player and non understanding of professionalism by a whole bunch of viewers.
To make it clear as my english sucks: I completely agree with you and a lot of people should understand that pro means more that "wow, cool, I'm paid to play video games!".
On March 26 2014 13:55 Waxangel wrote: I hope NaNiwa becomes a top tier LoL player so he can have interactions with Carmac forever
Naniwa is such a good team player and flexible to adjust to playing with other people,so I have no doubt he could achieve greatness in LoL as well
So true... Even Naniboys must be able to see this.
The funny thing is that you never was in a team with him.
Anyway, great statements and interviews both from Alliance and Naniwa.
Good luck to Naniwa in whatever he is going to do next.
Funny thing is neither were you. LMFAO... I guess you must respond every negative post about Naniwa with a bait.
And you would think the statements and interviews aren't completely PR motivated.
PR stands for public relations and we can safely say that all public statements made by a company are PR motivated. Their intent isn't to damage the relationship with the public.
Some folks really need to wrap their head around the idea that a buisness has zero modivation to get into a flame war with a former employee. Literally zero. They just want to move on and focus on other things. That is why statements like these are positive and doesn't focus on the drama. Because Alliance just wants to move forward.
Actually the whole point of this Naniwa case is about non profesionnalism of a player and non understanding of professionalism by a whole bunch of viewers.
To make it clear as my english sucks: I completely agree with you and a lot of people should understand that pro means more that "wow, cool, I'm paid to play video games!".
This simplistic definition goes perfectly with the fact that no professional in any sport got fired for bad behavior OUTSIDE of the field. When you get sponsored things become a bit more than just performing (euphemism).
I think this is at least a partial issue that Alex has to face when he picks super-high profile players with big personalities like Stephano, Idra, Naniwa.
Of course they're going to generate revenue, but the risk of a "scandal" is always there. Seems a lot like Nike's strategy, compared to Liquid/Adidas.
On March 26 2014 13:55 Waxangel wrote: I hope NaNiwa becomes a top tier LoL player so he can have interactions with Carmac forever
Naniwa is such a good team player and flexible to adjust to playing with other people,so I have no doubt he could achieve greatness in LoL as well
So true... Even Naniboys must be able to see this.
The funny thing is that you never was in a team with him.
Anyway, great statements and interviews both from Alliance and Naniwa.
Good luck to Naniwa in whatever he is going to do next.
Funny thing is neither were you. LMFAO... I guess you must respond every negative post about Naniwa with a bait.
And you would think the statements and interviews aren't completely PR motivated.
PR stands for public relations and we can safely say that all public statements made by a company are PR motivated. Their intent isn't to damage the relationship with the public.
Some folks really need to wrap their head around the idea that a buisness has zero modivation to get into a flame war with a former employee. Literally zero. They just want to move on and focus on other things. That is why statements like these are positive and doesn't focus on the drama. Because Alliance just wants to move forward.
Actually the whole point of this Naniwa case is about non profesionnalism of a player and non understanding of professionalism by a whole bunch of viewers.
To make it clear as my english sucks: I completely agree with you and a lot of people should understand that pro means more that "wow, cool, I'm paid to play video games!".
This simplistic definition goes perfectly with the fact that no professional in any sport got fired for bad behavior OUTSIDE of the field. When you get sponsored things become a bit more than just performing (euphemism).
On March 26 2014 13:55 Waxangel wrote: I hope NaNiwa becomes a top tier LoL player so he can have interactions with Carmac forever
Naniwa is such a good team player and flexible to adjust to playing with other people,so I have no doubt he could achieve greatness in LoL as well
So true... Even Naniboys must be able to see this.
The funny thing is that you never was in a team with him.
Anyway, great statements and interviews both from Alliance and Naniwa.
Good luck to Naniwa in whatever he is going to do next.
Funny thing is neither were you. LMFAO... I guess you must respond every negative post about Naniwa with a bait.
And you would think the statements and interviews aren't completely PR motivated.
PR stands for public relations and we can safely say that all public statements made by a company are PR motivated. Their intent isn't to damage the relationship with the public.
Some folks really need to wrap their head around the idea that a buisness has zero modivation to get into a flame war with a former employee. Literally zero. They just want to move on and focus on other things. That is why statements like these are positive and doesn't focus on the drama. Because Alliance just wants to move forward.
Actually the whole point of this Naniwa case is about non profesionnalism of a player and non understanding of professionalism by a whole bunch of viewers.
To make it clear as my english sucks: I completely agree with you and a lot of people should understand that pro means more that "wow, cool, I'm paid to play video games!".
This simplistic definition goes perfectly with the fact that no professional in any sport got fired for bad behavior OUTSIDE of the field. When you get sponsored things become a bit more than just performing (euphemism).
Is this a joke?
I assume so. It has to be because the statement is to dumb for me to believe someone would think it was true.
The interview with Naniwa was really good. This statement was also good and professional.
But of course these are not the things many people in the community want to see. They want read crap and rumours and assume the worst all the time, and if its based on facts or not has no meaning to them. Thats sad. Too many people who are like old people sitting at home with other old people whining and gossiping about some neighbour (that noone knows or have talked to).
Nice statement. And good luck to Naniwa, I hope he finds his love for the game again!
On March 26 2014 13:55 Waxangel wrote: I hope NaNiwa becomes a top tier LoL player so he can have interactions with Carmac forever
Naniwa is such a good team player and flexible to adjust to playing with other people,so I have no doubt he could achieve greatness in LoL as well
So true... Even Naniboys must be able to see this.
The funny thing is that you never was in a team with him.
Anyway, great statements and interviews both from Alliance and Naniwa.
Good luck to Naniwa in whatever he is going to do next.
Funny thing is neither were you. LMFAO... I guess you must respond every negative post about Naniwa with a bait.
And you would think the statements and interviews aren't completely PR motivated.
PR stands for public relations and we can safely say that all public statements made by a company are PR motivated. Their intent isn't to damage the relationship with the public.
Some folks really need to wrap their head around the idea that a buisness has zero modivation to get into a flame war with a former employee. Literally zero. They just want to move on and focus on other things. That is why statements like these are positive and doesn't focus on the drama. Because Alliance just wants to move forward.
Not sure how it goes against my use. They used the press release to show that they didn't want to look like the firing was more mutually planned, rather than something dumped on them. I just doubt that the statements were genuine thoughts of the "teammates" and "management".
On March 26 2014 13:55 Waxangel wrote: I hope NaNiwa becomes a top tier LoL player so he can have interactions with Carmac forever
Naniwa is such a good team player and flexible to adjust to playing with other people,so I have no doubt he could achieve greatness in LoL as well
So true... Even Naniboys must be able to see this.
The funny thing is that you never was in a team with him.
Anyway, great statements and interviews both from Alliance and Naniwa.
Good luck to Naniwa in whatever he is going to do next.
Funny thing is neither were you. LMFAO... I guess you must respond every negative post about Naniwa with a bait.
And you would think the statements and interviews aren't completely PR motivated.
PR stands for public relations and we can safely say that all public statements made by a company are PR motivated. Their intent isn't to damage the relationship with the public.
Some folks really need to wrap their head around the idea that a buisness has zero modivation to get into a flame war with a former employee. Literally zero. They just want to move on and focus on other things. That is why statements like these are positive and doesn't focus on the drama. Because Alliance just wants to move forward.
Not sure how it goes against my use. They used the press release to show that they didn't want to look like the firing was more mutually planned, rather than something dumped on them. I just doubt that the statements were genuine thoughts of the "teammates" and "management".
You don't need to doubt or wonder, they arnt the genuine thoughts of the team or managment. You won't get to know those, since they are private. Companies don't release their internal decision making process for firing someone. It's super unprofessional.
On March 26 2014 16:10 Advantageous wrote: 3 facts about the SC2 community on Naniwa: 1) cant get over how naniwa thumbs-downed Nestea, and probe-rushed Nestea. 2) cant get over the fact that a foreign protoss is considered the best foreigner. (GG Terran and Zerg Tears) 3) last but not least, refuse to believe that Naniwa (the best foreigner) have the balls to show his opinion publicly and uncensored.
Deal with it all you Nani-haters. He is so far the best foreigner to have come to the scene.
Your idol doesnt have half the achievements Stephano has. Well tried. At least the protoss whining part was fun.
So I heard about this GSL thing
Swedish poster so you must be talking about Jinro then? =p
Well I can talk about that aswell But that was very early in SC2, and one could argue that it was a different time. Naniwa went RO8 when it was more "figured out"... and what happened when Stephano tried? (also note that Naniwa was 1 map away form winning DRG, and could cruise on his at the time good pvp to a championship)
ok really, naniwa failed twice before he even got into code s, it took him a lot of time to even start performing in gsl
stephano went there once and lost in a group with innovation and DRG. You can't use this as an argument against stephano, it's just blind fanboyism.
he fell more than twice iirc, wasn't he 0-11 at a time and getting destroyed over and over by lucky ?
You always see words like "it was a mutual decision to part ways etc." but in reality very few players will openly express what they actually feel, because there is always money involved when it settling a contract so who and who will "happily leave the team while thanking them etc."
On March 26 2014 16:10 Advantageous wrote: 3 facts about the SC2 community on Naniwa: 1) cant get over how naniwa thumbs-downed Nestea, and probe-rushed Nestea. 2) cant get over the fact that a foreign protoss is considered the best foreigner. (GG Terran and Zerg Tears) 3) last but not least, refuse to believe that Naniwa (the best foreigner) have the balls to show his opinion publicly and uncensored.
Deal with it all you Nani-haters. He is so far the best foreigner to have come to the scene.
Your idol doesnt have half the achievements Stephano has. Well tried. At least the protoss whining part was fun.
So I heard about this GSL thing
Swedish poster so you must be talking about Jinro then? =p
Well I can talk about that aswell But that was very early in SC2, and one could argue that it was a different time. Naniwa went RO8 when it was more "figured out"... and what happened when Stephano tried? (also note that Naniwa was 1 map away form winning DRG, and could cruise on his at the time good pvp to a championship)
ok really, naniwa failed twice before he even got into code s, it took him a lot of time to even start performing in gsl
stephano went there once and lost in a group with innovation and DRG. You can't use this as an argument against stephano, it's just blind fanboyism.
he fell more than twice iirc, wasn't he 0-11 at a time and getting destroyed over and over by lucky ?
He was seeded 3 times in code A and lost in the first round each time, not sure what the scores were, but it was 3 Bo3's against Check and Lucky x2. Stuck around to play GSTL during that time, can't remember how well he did.
Then months later he was actually seeded directly into Code S, he never actually 'got into' it by his play.
Thinking about his results from those two times is interesting to me. Naniwa definitely benefited from match-ups at the time he was bad against Zerg, good against Terran and better than people thought against Protoss (I guess that's still true of him today). You can see what happened in Code A when he drew Zergs. Once he got into Code S it was during a time when Zergs were starting to fall off. He really took advantage of the Terrans he faced and had a few of clutch comebacks in his PvP too.
So I'm not sure he was all that different as a player between his Code A failures and his Code S successes. Maybe it illustrates that the difference between success and failure is more luck based than we'd like to admit (especially when we knock player 'x' for never winning a tourney).
On March 26 2014 12:58 RagequitBM wrote: That's weird. Loda, and Naniwa would always get into fights on twitter a few months ago because Naniwa kept calling Dota casual. Maybe he changed his mind I suppose.
Or it could be a press release, and he has no choice but to say nice things......
On March 27 2014 02:45 SChlafmann wrote: Wow, I'm like..Wow. Awesome job from Alliance there. I believe no one expected this kind of statement.
when it's coming from KM it means little next to absolutely fucking nothing.
Why do you say that
When KM was first casting sc2 many years ago, half the people on TL hated her because she was a girl. it was pretty gross. anyone who defended her was accused of white knighting. guess some of those posters are still around.
On March 27 2014 02:45 SChlafmann wrote: Wow, I'm like..Wow. Awesome job from Alliance there. I believe no one expected this kind of statement.
when it's coming from KM it means little next to absolutely fucking nothing.
Why do you say that
When KM was first casting sc2 many years ago, half the people on TL hated her because she was a girl. it was pretty gross. anyone who defended her was accused of white knighting. guess some of those posters are still around.
I agree the hate was very much undeserved, but her casting was of...shall we say dubious quality.
And here you have, exactly what most of you always wanted. More "professionalism", meaning more modern comporate stupidity. Oh god, that's so great, let's be even more professional. Let's never say anything of any information value ever, so that noone can be offended!
Naniwa will always remain one of my most favourite people of the whole SC2 universe. He was one of the very few who expressed himself, instead of conforming to standarts of behaviour that nobody wants and nobody needs, but everyone requires.
I am so said that I am such a noob in games. If I were ever good in SC2, I would go on to be a pro and then after winning a tourney, I would just write FUCK all across the main stage in my own fresh shit, to show you all what it is to be "unprofessional".
On March 27 2014 02:45 SChlafmann wrote: Wow, I'm like..Wow. Awesome job from Alliance there. I believe no one expected this kind of statement.
when it's coming from KM it means little next to absolutely fucking nothing.
Why do you say that
When KM was first casting sc2 many years ago, half the people on TL hated her because she was a girl. it was pretty gross. anyone who defended her was accused of white knighting. guess some of those posters are still around.
It had more to do with GOM's incompetence when it came to filling the position, but hey I'm sure people could make the same argument for PL lol. Comes down to the people in charge and knowing the language pretty darn well. Anyway, you have to be able to filter the good from the bad and sometimes all they see is the bad. Not only that but it's how you take that criticism and understand it as well. Not everyone can do that.
On March 27 2014 06:31 Thrill wrote: Things i didn't know about Alliance:
KellyMilkies is their manager.
Now you do. I guess you can tell who pays attention to DotA and who doesn't from this thread pretty well. It's what happens when your with the guy running that ship i.e. Loda. He's a pretty big deal in that circle.
I'm not a big Kelly fan, but I am impressed that she kept that team and its players in different games running as well as it has. I'm not a fan of how she got the job, but I am impressed with how she has done the job. And I sure hope you guys can figure out which of those two matters more.
On March 27 2014 02:45 SChlafmann wrote: Wow, I'm like..Wow. Awesome job from Alliance there. I believe no one expected this kind of statement.
when it's coming from KM it means little next to absolutely fucking nothing.
Why do you say that
When KM was first casting sc2 many years ago, half the people on TL hated her because she was a girl. it was pretty gross. anyone who defended her was accused of white knighting. guess some of those posters are still around.
IIRC, it had very little to do with her gender and more of her silliness/pronunciation.
On March 27 2014 08:00 Broodwurst wrote: Anyone got a job where I can take a paid 4-6 months break?
Doesn't say he asked for a paid break, I assumed he asked for a 4-6 month break free of contractual obligations so that he could come back to the game and stay with Alliance if he found the motivation to play again.
On March 27 2014 02:45 SChlafmann wrote: Wow, I'm like..Wow. Awesome job from Alliance there. I believe no one expected this kind of statement.
when it's coming from KM it means little next to absolutely fucking nothing.
Why do you say that
When KM was first casting sc2 many years ago, half the people on TL hated her because she was a girl. it was pretty gross. anyone who defended her was accused of white knighting. guess some of those posters are still around.
IIRC, it had very little to do with her gender and more of her silliness/pronunciation.
I don't really think so. Tasteless and Artosis are pretty silly and there are plenty of goofy casters. Her gender factored into why she got so much hate. Other casters have had straight up speech impediments and didn't get nearly the hate.
On March 27 2014 02:45 SChlafmann wrote: Wow, I'm like..Wow. Awesome job from Alliance there. I believe no one expected this kind of statement.
when it's coming from KM it means little next to absolutely fucking nothing.
Why do you say that
When KM was first casting sc2 many years ago, half the people on TL hated her because she was a girl. it was pretty gross. anyone who defended her was accused of white knighting. guess some of those posters are still around.
IIRC, it had very little to do with her gender and more of her silliness/pronunciation.
I don't really think so. Tasteless and Artosis are pretty silly and there are plenty of goofy casters. Her gender factored into why she got so much hate. Other casters have had straight up speech impediments and didn't get nearly the hate.
Revisit the threads. It had everything to do with the accent and annunciation. Silliness however had nothing to do with it. Her tact with dealing with the issue could have been better. The guy you're thinking of never really went mainstream from what I recall. No idea where he is now and a lot of those guys were casting all sorts of events from their bedroom. Different can of worms.
On March 27 2014 02:45 SChlafmann wrote: Wow, I'm like..Wow. Awesome job from Alliance there. I believe no one expected this kind of statement.
when it's coming from KM it means little next to absolutely fucking nothing.
Why do you say that
When KM was first casting sc2 many years ago, half the people on TL hated her because she was a girl. it was pretty gross. anyone who defended her was accused of white knighting. guess some of those posters are still around.
IIRC, it had very little to do with her gender and more of her silliness/pronunciation.
I don't really think so. Tasteless and Artosis are pretty silly and there are plenty of goofy casters. Her gender factored into why she got so much hate. Other casters have had straight up speech impediments and didn't get nearly the hate.
Revisit the threads. It had everything to do with the accent and annunciation. Silliness however had nothing to do with it. Her tact with dealing with the issue could have been better. The guy you're thinking of never really went mainstream from what I recall. No idea where he is now and a lot of those guys were casting all sorts of events from their bedroom. Different can of worms.
I get where you are coming form Starstruck, but I don't think it was isolated specifically to the threads on TL. The speech stuff was annoying, but I always felt people doubled down on that super fast and never gave her a chance. That was a weird time in SC2 when GSL was the only thing and people went ape shit over the tiniest stuff. Most of the really gross, sexist stuff happens on places that are not TL, because the bannlings don't tolerate that shit.
I thought most people criticized KM for her pronunciation and general lack of game knowledge. I personally didnt care whether she is a girl or not, but her accent did sometimes make it hard to understand what she's saying.
On March 27 2014 08:59 ilikeredheads wrote: I thought most people criticized KM for her pronunciation and general lack of game knowledge. I personally didnt care whether she is a girl or not, but her accent did sometimes make it hard to understand what she's saying.
I think that some people also didn't like how when she was a caster for a big Malaysian LAN, she just left halfway through, but that was a long time ago (and long before I entered the eSports scene).
On March 27 2014 02:45 SChlafmann wrote: Wow, I'm like..Wow. Awesome job from Alliance there. I believe no one expected this kind of statement.
when it's coming from KM it means little next to absolutely fucking nothing.
Why do you say that
When KM was first casting sc2 many years ago, half the people on TL hated her because she was a girl. it was pretty gross. anyone who defended her was accused of white knighting. guess some of those posters are still around.
IIRC, it had very little to do with her gender and more of her silliness/pronunciation.
I don't really think so. Tasteless and Artosis are pretty silly and there are plenty of goofy casters. Her gender factored into why she got so much hate. Other casters have had straight up speech impediments and didn't get nearly the hate.
Revisit the threads. It had everything to do with the accent and annunciation. Silliness however had nothing to do with it. Her tact with dealing with the issue could have been better. The guy you're thinking of never really went mainstream from what I recall. No idea where he is now and a lot of those guys were casting all sorts of events from their bedroom. Different can of worms.
I get where you are coming form Starstruck, but I don't think it was isolated specifically to the threads on TL. The speech stuff was annoying, but I always felt people doubled down on that super fast and never gave her a chance. That was a weird time in SC2 when GSL was the only thing and people went ape shit over the tiniest stuff. Most of the really gross, sexist stuff happens on places that are not TL, because the bannlings don't tolerate that shit.
Exactly, the mods keep things pretty clean here, but some of vitriol pointed at her elsewhere was definitely all about her gender.
To be sure she had legitimate short comings, but I think they got magnified on TL because trolls couldn't attack her gender here so they focused on what they could attack. I don't particularly think she was good enough for GSL, but some of the casters the Korean scene has had haven't exactly been first-rate either and she seemed way more polarizing than any of them.
Also, I do remember watching the guy with the straight-up speech impediment cast WCS and the live thread was basically: person a: wtf he can't talk person b: get over it, you can understand him just fine if you try
Plus, the EU scene has produced plenty of accented English casters that no ones complains about, because you can understand them just fine (also the bias towards Euro accents being 'cool' / 'sexy').
On March 27 2014 02:45 SChlafmann wrote: Wow, I'm like..Wow. Awesome job from Alliance there. I believe no one expected this kind of statement.
when it's coming from KM it means little next to absolutely fucking nothing.
Why do you say that
When KM was first casting sc2 many years ago, half the people on TL hated her because she was a girl. it was pretty gross. anyone who defended her was accused of white knighting. guess some of those posters are still around.
IIRC, it had very little to do with her gender and more of her silliness/pronunciation.
I don't really think so. Tasteless and Artosis are pretty silly and there are plenty of goofy casters. Her gender factored into why she got so much hate. Other casters have had straight up speech impediments and didn't get nearly the hate.
Revisit the threads. It had everything to do with the accent and annunciation. Silliness however had nothing to do with it. Her tact with dealing with the issue could have been better. The guy you're thinking of never really went mainstream from what I recall. No idea where he is now and a lot of those guys were casting all sorts of events from their bedroom. Different can of worms.
I get where you are coming form Starstruck, but I don't think it was isolated specifically to the threads on TL. The speech stuff was annoying, but I always felt people doubled down on that super fast and never gave her a chance. That was a weird time in SC2 when GSL was the only thing and people went ape shit over the tiniest stuff. Most of the really gross, sexist stuff happens on places that are not TL, because the bannlings don't tolerate that shit.
Exactly, the mods keep things pretty clean here, but some of vitriol pointed at her elsewhere was definitely all about her gender.
To be sure she had legitimate short comings, but I think they got magnified on TL because trolls couldn't attack her gender here so they focused on what they could attack. I don't particularly think she was good enough for GSL, but some of the casters the Korean scene has had haven't exactly been first-rate either and she seemed way more polarizing than any of them.
Also, I do remember watching the guy with the straight-up speech impediment cast WCS and the live thread was basically: person a: wtf he can't talk person b: get over it, you can understand him just fine if you try
Plus, the EU scene has produced plenty of accented English casters that no ones complains about, because you can understand them just fine (also the bias towards Euro accents being 'cool' / 'sexy').
Don't forget the faux-maxim spread she did. I always thought someone wanting to be taken seriously based on their abilities instead of their body parts would avoid that sort of thing. She caught some flack over that one too. But yeah, I remember her getting poo'd on more because so many couldn't understand her + a lot of what she said just flat didn't make sense rather than her gender.
On March 26 2014 22:29 RoyW wrote: Nice professional sentiment on a contentious issue. Kelly's been Alliance's Dota manager since befoe they were sponsered by Alliance.
There's some bashing of grammar within the article. What's so terrible about it, nothing stands out to me?
tl;dr: I personally don't want a press release that shits on the other party, and I do not feel entitled to knowing the truth about such an issue, but a company that actually has the guts to publicly disclose at least some relevant information regarding an incident like this deserves a lot more respect than a company who just puts out meaningless PR bullshit. Feel free to disagree.
I think it's very unfair, or just plain immature, to call Alliance's statement "Meaningless PR bullshit". In any capacity in the professional world,you don't take a giant shit on a former employee, unless extreme circumstances occur. The response subtly addresses the issue without allowing misinterpretation or stoking ridiculous internet drama.
In the statement, Alliance:
Express regret that Naniwa wants to move on Express thanks for the work and achievements during his time on the team Keep the door open for a return if and when Naniwa may come back into the game
What exactly would you have wanted Alliance to say to stop it from being "Meaningless PR bullshit"? It's a commendable sentiment, and Alliance/Kelly should be lauded for their professional handling of it.
It isn't just about that... there were many sugar coated words... better release a statement releasing him and thanking for his contributions on the team rather than indirectly justifiying his despicable behavior...
you can release a statement without tarnishing the player but putting to much effort on sugar coating naniwa, i cant take it.
we came to a mutual agreement he still has a lot left in him as a professional In person he has never been anything but extremely respectful -He’s dad is a doctor - He likes eating chocolate
LOL!!! we would love to sit down and discuss another future together
I remember being one of the people flaming KM because she was bad at casting. Tasteless did his best to make the casts fun with her but as great as he is at his job he couldn't do it. She just wasn't knowledgeable enough at the game and when it came time to analyze the game at hand she couldn't do it. Could barely do play by play too. The calling Hellions race cars thing was funny to me and the whole game she ran with the same joke.
TL was pretty quick with the ban hammer here on the KM being a girl bans so I don't think it was much of an issue. Probably reddit and bnet though I could see being bad for that.
On March 27 2014 02:45 SChlafmann wrote: Wow, I'm like..Wow. Awesome job from Alliance there. I believe no one expected this kind of statement.
when it's coming from KM it means little next to absolutely fucking nothing.
Why do you say that
When KM was first casting sc2 many years ago, half the people on TL hated her because she was a girl. it was pretty gross. anyone who defended her was accused of white knighting. guess some of those posters are still around.
IIRC, it had very little to do with her gender and more of her silliness/pronunciation.
If it's about pronunctiation, why do people like Tod and Rotterdam so much? Their accent is terrible.
On March 27 2014 02:45 SChlafmann wrote: Wow, I'm like..Wow. Awesome job from Alliance there. I believe no one expected this kind of statement.
when it's coming from KM it means little next to absolutely fucking nothing.
Why do you say that
When KM was first casting sc2 many years ago, half the people on TL hated her because she was a girl. it was pretty gross. anyone who defended her was accused of white knighting. guess some of those posters are still around.
IIRC, it had very little to do with her gender and more of her silliness/pronunciation.
If it's about pronunctiation, why do people like Tod and Rotterdam so much? Their accent is terrible.
On March 27 2014 02:45 SChlafmann wrote: Wow, I'm like..Wow. Awesome job from Alliance there. I believe no one expected this kind of statement.
when it's coming from KM it means little next to absolutely fucking nothing.
Why do you say that
When KM was first casting sc2 many years ago, half the people on TL hated her because she was a girl. it was pretty gross. anyone who defended her was accused of white knighting. guess some of those posters are still around.
This isn't really true, peoples complaints were against her voice, not that she was a women. And keep in mind, we were all exclusively used to tastosis and some people only wanted tastosis.
On March 27 2014 02:45 SChlafmann wrote: Wow, I'm like..Wow. Awesome job from Alliance there. I believe no one expected this kind of statement.
when it's coming from KM it means little next to absolutely fucking nothing.
Why do you say that
When KM was first casting sc2 many years ago, half the people on TL hated her because she was a girl. it was pretty gross. anyone who defended her was accused of white knighting. guess some of those posters are still around.
This isn't really true, peoples complaints were against her voice, not that she was a women. And keep in mind, we were all exclusively used to tastosis and some people only wanted tastosis.
Can we get away from making up history? The first step towards dealing with the sexism in this community is actually admitting that being a woman means that whatever criticisms can be directed at you will become double in volume and venom.
On March 27 2014 02:45 SChlafmann wrote: Wow, I'm like..Wow. Awesome job from Alliance there. I believe no one expected this kind of statement.
when it's coming from KM it means little next to absolutely fucking nothing.
Why do you say that
When KM was first casting sc2 many years ago, half the people on TL hated her because she was a girl. it was pretty gross. anyone who defended her was accused of white knighting. guess some of those posters are still around.
IIRC, it had very little to do with her gender and more of her silliness/pronunciation.
If it's about pronunctiation, why do people like Tod and Rotterdam so much? Their accent is terrible.
Rotterdam pronunciation is very good...
I like ToD's better and would chose ToD over Rotterdam any day. Rotti is OK but it's a bit harder to understand him when he is joking/laughing which isn't that uncommon.
On March 26 2014 13:14 Gen.Rolly wrote: 3 facts about Naniwa: 1) He is a talented player 2) I used to respect him 3) I don't anymore
Thats totally me!
How could you respect someone you know only because of his games o_O ? I enjyoed NaNi and I continue to enjoy him but I don't know him enough to respect him.
On March 26 2014 13:14 Gen.Rolly wrote: 3 facts about Naniwa: 1) He is a talented player 2) I used to respect him 3) I don't anymore
Thats totally me!
How could you respect someone you know only because of his games o_O ? I enjyoed NaNi and I continue to enjoy him but I don't know him enough to respect him.
When Naniwa came on the scene he had a bad reputation and bad press seemed to follow him even when he wasn't that successful.
Personally, I thought Naniwa was a fierce competitor who had a tough life (kicked out of home as a teenager, bounced around teams, ect.). I also remember how young he was so didn't judge him too harshly on it.
Then he ended up on Dignitas and it seemed like he made a huge turnaround. He wasn't getting involved in pointless controversies, his professionalism seemed up (like not getting kicked out of ESL *twice* for rules violation), and he seemed to be doing well in the game and *didn't* come across as an asshole in interviews.
It looked to me like he was starting to grow up and put things together. Pretty easy to be a fan of someone with that story IMO.
Then he left Dignitas and while he had more success, all those ugly out-of-game issues started to resurface and it got harder to root for him (and I eventually stopped to be honest). So I can see how some people lost respect for him. A lot of his issues were beyond his gameplay as well.
Anyways, I can only hope that taking a leave from programing will help him finally exorcise whatever demons continue to haunt him.
This is actually great. Alliance is very classy and a really positive press release. And everything complaining that nothing new was said here, ITS A PRESS RELEASE. This is exactly what a press release is supposed to be. It's not an opportunity to trash your former player or get all personal with negative shit. NaNiwa was a great player, and although a lot of people in the community like to hate on him and trash him very regularly, he gave the foreign community some great moments and great games while keeping the foreign hope alive during some of the worst times for foreign players in history of the game. He raised the bar for all the great foreign players that are starting to pop up and get results recently and I guarantee you he was a big reason why. These people are competitors and not role models, and I'm glad Alliance took the opportunity to say farewell to a great player and it seems like a great teammate. Peace and love <3 Will miss watching his games and hope he comes back eventually.
On March 27 2014 22:22 ffadicted wrote: Just an off question to some of you.
Why exactly do you think you're entitled to a multiple paragraph response on why a company is getting rid of an employee?
Maybe... because we care what happens to the team? What if I invest in the team? What if we're friends with someone on the team? What if.. okay, I'm done.
On March 27 2014 02:45 SChlafmann wrote: Wow, I'm like..Wow. Awesome job from Alliance there. I believe no one expected this kind of statement.
when it's coming from KM it means little next to absolutely fucking nothing.
Why do you say that
When KM was first casting sc2 many years ago, half the people on TL hated her because she was a girl. it was pretty gross. anyone who defended her was accused of white knighting. guess some of those posters are still around.
IIRC, it had very little to do with her gender and more of her silliness/pronunciation.
I don't really think so. Tasteless and Artosis are pretty silly and there are plenty of goofy casters. Her gender factored into why she got so much hate. Other casters have had straight up speech impediments and didn't get nearly the hate.
Revisit the threads. It had everything to do with the accent and annunciation. Silliness however had nothing to do with it. Her tact with dealing with the issue could have been better. The guy you're thinking of never really went mainstream from what I recall. No idea where he is now and a lot of those guys were casting all sorts of events from their bedroom. Different can of worms.
I get where you are coming form Starstruck, but I don't think it was isolated specifically to the threads on TL. The speech stuff was annoying, but I always felt people doubled down on that super fast and never gave her a chance. That was a weird time in SC2 when GSL was the only thing and people went ape shit over the tiniest stuff. Most of the really gross, sexist stuff happens on places that are not TL, because the bannlings don't tolerate that shit.
Exactly, the mods keep things pretty clean here, but some of vitriol pointed at her elsewhere was definitely all about her gender.
To be sure she had legitimate short comings, but I think they got magnified on TL because trolls couldn't attack her gender here so they focused on what they could attack. I don't particularly think she was good enough for GSL, but some of the casters the Korean scene has had haven't exactly been first-rate either and she seemed way more polarizing than any of them.
Also, I do remember watching the guy with the straight-up speech impediment cast WCS and the live thread was basically: person a: wtf he can't talk person b: get over it, you can understand him just fine if you try
Plus, the EU scene has produced plenty of accented English casters that no ones complains about, because you can understand them just fine (also the bias towards Euro accents being 'cool' / 'sexy').
We're talking about the constructive criticism not the other bullshit surrounding it. Those kind of remarks happen all the time no matter the scenario. Case in point look at Reimer's wife getting lambasted for the guy's lackluster performance.
With all the social media available to us nowadays it's so easy for people to vent their frustrations on others and it's almost always a load of rubbish that carries little weight. Why you guys think I don't participate in such things other than these forums? It's because I have enough to deal with here. hue hue hue
On March 27 2014 02:45 SChlafmann wrote: Wow, I'm like..Wow. Awesome job from Alliance there. I believe no one expected this kind of statement.
when it's coming from KM it means little next to absolutely fucking nothing.
Why do you say that
When KM was first casting sc2 many years ago, half the people on TL hated her because she was a girl. it was pretty gross. anyone who defended her was accused of white knighting. guess some of those posters are still around.
This isn't really true, peoples complaints were against her voice, not that she was a women. And keep in mind, we were all exclusively used to tastosis and some people only wanted tastosis.
Can we get away from making up history? The first step towards dealing with the sexism in this community is actually admitting that being a woman means that whatever criticisms can be directed at you will become double in volume and venom.
I might have been inclined to agree if it wasnt for the sheer amount of hate several other notable commentators have received both before and after she left casting. If her criticism stemmed from sexism then it was buried in a heap of general viciousness the community can have for anyone who they dont enjoy.
On March 27 2014 22:23 danmanjones wrote: I find it strange that Naniwa still has so much respect in the SC community.
Not everyone watches sc2 for drama. Regardless of his antics, he was one of the few foreigners to carry the torch as far as he did. Thats pretty deserving of respect.
Haha did not know that E-Sports needed that "all happy all well best of luck for future"-Bullshit press releases whenever a player is fired for being imature.
For crying out loud, naniwa is a talented diva. If he loses he blames it on the circumstances if he wins he pats himself on the back the most.
On March 27 2014 02:45 SChlafmann wrote: Wow, I'm like..Wow. Awesome job from Alliance there. I believe no one expected this kind of statement.
when it's coming from KM it means little next to absolutely fucking nothing.
Why do you say that
When KM was first casting sc2 many years ago, half the people on TL hated her because she was a girl. it was pretty gross. anyone who defended her was accused of white knighting. guess some of those posters are still around.
This isn't really true, peoples complaints were against her voice, not that she was a women. And keep in mind, we were all exclusively used to tastosis and some people only wanted tastosis.
Can we get away from making up history? The first step towards dealing with the sexism in this community is actually admitting that being a woman means that whatever criticisms can be directed at you will become double in volume and venom.
Not sure if sarcasm, but she just had a really bad voice and either Gom or herself should have realized that and never put her into that position in the first place.
On March 29 2014 20:15 plgElwood wrote: Haha did not know that E-Sports needed that "all happy all well best of luck for future"-Bullshit press releases whenever a player is fired for being imature.
For crying out loud, naniwa is a talented diva. If he loses he blames it on the circumstances if he wins he pats himself on the back the most.
Lol, how didn't you know that yet? This happens every time a player gets kicked for basically anything, Teams trying to make themselves look better and remove backlash on sponsors.
On March 29 2014 20:15 plgElwood wrote: Haha did not know that E-Sports needed that "all happy all well best of luck for future"-Bullshit press releases whenever a player is fired for being imature.
For crying out loud, naniwa is a talented diva. If he loses he blames it on the circumstances if he wins he pats himself on the back the most.
On March 29 2014 20:15 plgElwood wrote: Haha did not know that E-Sports needed that "all happy all well best of luck for future"-Bullshit press releases whenever a player is fired for being imature.
For crying out loud, naniwa is a talented diva. If he loses he blames it on the circumstances if he wins he pats himself on the back the most.
Sponsors need that. eSports needs sponsors.
Its exactly the same thing in pro sports.
And every other profession in the world. Its not like companies go "yeah, we fired that useless piece of shit."
On March 27 2014 02:45 SChlafmann wrote: Wow, I'm like..Wow. Awesome job from Alliance there. I believe no one expected this kind of statement.
when it's coming from KM it means little next to absolutely fucking nothing.
Why do you say that
When KM was first casting sc2 many years ago, half the people on TL hated her because she was a girl. it was pretty gross. anyone who defended her was accused of white knighting. guess some of those posters are still around.
IIRC, it had very little to do with her gender and more of her silliness/pronunciation.
People who say it was because we were sexist just have a screw loose in their head.
"Tor" Was the biggest thing I remember. It's extremely annoying for an English audience when the caster has trouble properly speaking ENGLISH. That on top of the fact she had almost no SC2 knowledge whatsoever.
Nothing to do with her being a woman! That was the only god damn fact she got put there in the first place, lets be honest here.
On March 27 2014 02:45 SChlafmann wrote: Wow, I'm like..Wow. Awesome job from Alliance there. I believe no one expected this kind of statement.
when it's coming from KM it means little next to absolutely fucking nothing.
Why do you say that
When KM was first casting sc2 many years ago, half the people on TL hated her because she was a girl. it was pretty gross. anyone who defended her was accused of white knighting. guess some of those posters are still around.
IIRC, it had very little to do with her gender and more of her silliness/pronunciation.
People who say it was because we were sexist just have a screw loose in their head.
"Tor" Was the biggest thing I remember. It's extremely annoying for an English audience when the caster has trouble properly speaking ENGLISH. That on top of the fact she had almost no SC2 knowledge whatsoever.
Nothing to do with her being a woman! That was the only god damn fact she got put there in the first place, lets be honest here.
It's not about the fact that she was criticized, it's about how whenever a woman does something dubious the harassment and abuse is a lot more intense.
On March 27 2014 02:45 SChlafmann wrote: Wow, I'm like..Wow. Awesome job from Alliance there. I believe no one expected this kind of statement.
when it's coming from KM it means little next to absolutely fucking nothing.
Why do you say that
When KM was first casting sc2 many years ago, half the people on TL hated her because she was a girl. it was pretty gross. anyone who defended her was accused of white knighting. guess some of those posters are still around.
IIRC, it had very little to do with her gender and more of her silliness/pronunciation.
People who say it was because we were sexist just have a screw loose in their head.
"Tor" Was the biggest thing I remember. It's extremely annoying for an English audience when the caster has trouble properly speaking ENGLISH. That on top of the fact she had almost no SC2 knowledge whatsoever.
Nothing to do with her being a woman! That was the only god damn fact she got put there in the first place, lets be honest here.
It's not about the fact that she was criticized, it's about how whenever a woman does something dubious the harassment and abuse is a lot more intense.
That's mostly because women take it too seriosly.
I mean I can't even count anymore how often someone in dota has criticized me for my play with the words in that article. Just read a twitch chat and you will find out that it's just as bad for males.
On March 27 2014 02:45 SChlafmann wrote: Wow, I'm like..Wow. Awesome job from Alliance there. I believe no one expected this kind of statement.
when it's coming from KM it means little next to absolutely fucking nothing.
Why do you say that
When KM was first casting sc2 many years ago, half the people on TL hated her because she was a girl. it was pretty gross. anyone who defended her was accused of white knighting. guess some of those posters are still around.
IIRC, it had very little to do with her gender and more of her silliness/pronunciation.
People who say it was because we were sexist just have a screw loose in their head.
"Tor" Was the biggest thing I remember. It's extremely annoying for an English audience when the caster has trouble properly speaking ENGLISH. That on top of the fact she had almost no SC2 knowledge whatsoever.
Nothing to do with her being a woman! That was the only god damn fact she got put there in the first place, lets be honest here.
It's not about the fact that she was criticized, it's about how whenever a woman does something dubious the harassment and abuse is a lot more intense.
That's mostly because women take it too seriosly.
I mean I can't even count anymore how often someone in dota has criticized me for my play with the words in that article. Just read a twitch chat and you will find out that it's just as bad for males.
You get insulted in dota for being a man? I've never experienced that personally...
On March 27 2014 02:45 SChlafmann wrote: Wow, I'm like..Wow. Awesome job from Alliance there. I believe no one expected this kind of statement.
when it's coming from KM it means little next to absolutely fucking nothing.
Why do you say that
When KM was first casting sc2 many years ago, half the people on TL hated her because she was a girl. it was pretty gross. anyone who defended her was accused of white knighting. guess some of those posters are still around.
IIRC, it had very little to do with her gender and more of her silliness/pronunciation.
People who say it was because we were sexist just have a screw loose in their head.
"Tor" Was the biggest thing I remember. It's extremely annoying for an English audience when the caster has trouble properly speaking ENGLISH. That on top of the fact she had almost no SC2 knowledge whatsoever.
Nothing to do with her being a woman! That was the only god damn fact she got put there in the first place, lets be honest here.
You act like the two can't exist side by side. She clearly had issues as a caster, but just as clearly were the attacks on her based by sexism. They both happened and yes at times it's hard to tell if the criticism was fueled by legit problems and when it was by sexism. But it's pretty naive to think that it was exclusively one or the other.
EPT
But that was very early in SC2, and one could argue that it was a different time. Naniwa went RO8 when it was more "figured out"... and what happened when Stephano tried?
