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Hello,
Recently I've caught myself squinting at the minimap on multiple occasions because I couldn't make out what kind of building / size of army / exact positioning / etc. was shown.
I thought about that a bit and suddenly something jumped to mind.
When the game came out, the Minimap was as big as it is now; the MAPS, however:
old:
124x124 Steppes of War
108x160 Crossfire
new:
192x192 Alterzim Stronghold
158x162 Frost
These are just the few maps that came to mind, some quick calculation gives me that Alterzim Stronghold has a surface of 140% larger than Steppes of War.
+ Show Spoiler +On February 27 2014 21:54 Cyro wrote:Very very good point and i'm super interested in this now too Your calculation is wrong, you assume 192/124 which = 1.55 (rounded to 2 decimal place) which could also be stated as 55% bigger, but that's only using one axis. The map is a square so you could calculate area like: 124*124 = 15376 192*192 = 36864 36864 divided by 15376 is equal to ~2.4.. so the map has 2.4x as much area, on the same minimap space. Objects would have to shrink to about 42% of the size or detail would be lost Not ~+55% area gained, but ~+140%. Much bigger problem
So while the minimap was obviously designed for smaller maps, we ended up with much larger maps on which everything seems 'cramped'.
AFAIK, Gameheart etc. included larger minimaps, which is so much clearer than the small minimaps we have now.
Does anybody think/know Blizzard has considered increasing the maximum size of the minimap (either optional or forced)?
I don't have bad eyesight but I have trouble distinguishing certain things on the minimap as well as gauging speed. On unclear streams it is even worse. Anybody else suffering from this problem?
Kind regards
EDIT: For comparison
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/h162iiS.png)
Alterzim Stronghold Real Size
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/OaEjUuz.png)
Steppes of War Real Size
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/F06eOM6.png)
Alterzim Stronghold scaled down
You can already see how much detail is lost in this scaling down, even though I used a pretty clear font to display it.
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These days Blizzard is somewhat distracted by heros of the storm, thankfully the modding community have stepped up and asking one of the observer mods if they think this feature would improve their package and if it could be programmed differently (depends on cameras I'd imagine). I do agree the minimap has lost some of its focus point in recent years.
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On February 27 2014 20:12 aka_star wrote:
These days Blizzard is somewhat distracted by heros of the storm, thankfully the modding community have stepped up and asking one of the observer mods if they think this feature would improve their package and if it could be programmed differently (depends on cameras I'd imagine). I do agree the minimap has lost some of its focus point in recent years.
I mean that the minimap becomes bigger while player, not while observing (preferably both  )
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interesting, this has never occurred to my thought at all.
for me personally I think it would be great to have some optional options but blizzard isn't really into that, looks like they want one unified experience across all players.
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The unit dots are indeed very small on big maps, it's kinda hard to notice a drop with peripheral vision... Maybe they could standardize it rather than make it dependent on the size of the map?
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Russian Federation262 Posts
Interesting thoughts, ts.
Btw i agree, that with map design involving from year to year maps became bigger and notice drops\oracler flying to your base is a little bit harder, then before. On the other hand its just a part of the game and if you are playing jjakji on a big map you must be prepared for much more attention needed to put on the minimap.
As for implementation of some sort of standarts by devs - IDK
P.S. Maybe we need address this to Blizzard or just copy to Bnet forums...
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United Kingdom1381 Posts
One thing I noticed while I was doing some testing for Gameheart is that minimap icons don't have a minimum size. So if you build a sensor tower on Alterzim Stronghold, it's virtually invisible on the map (at least at my resolution).
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I think custom UIs (while playing) should be available anyway. Sadly starcraft is developed by Blizzard so if we'll ever see that feature it'll be when LOTV comes out, maybe even years later.
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I see there's more people over here who, like me, never really thought of it, but actually agree
On February 27 2014 20:36 ETisME wrote:
interesting, this has never occurred to my thought at all.
for me personally I think it would be great to have some optional options but blizzard isn't really into that, looks like they want one unified experience across all players.
Most options are optional!
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Russian Federation125 Posts
I wanted to stretch my minimap to whole 2nd monitor by using some other programs,
I saw few dayz ago how day9 showed miniman from the game streched to a whole monitor on stream.
So i guess that it is possible at least to do using stream. may be play on 1 monitor and open stream of you games on 2nd monitor. It will be Huge minimap on 24 inch monitor
ANd yeh it sounds a bit cheesy Lets call it minimap awareness hack
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On February 27 2014 21:36 dargul wrote:I wanted to stretch my minimap to whole 2nd monitor by using some other programs, I saw few dayz ago how day9 showed miniman from the game streched to a whole monitor on stream. So i guess that it is possible at least to do using stream. may be play on 1 monitor and open stream of you games on 2nd monitor. It will be Huge minimap on 24 inch monitor ANd yeh it sounds a bit cheesy Lets call it minimap awareness hack
Day9 uses it in observer tools tho. I also think taking a small part of your stream won't be that clear for you...
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On February 27 2014 20:55 wishr wrote:
Interesting thoughts, ts.
Btw i agree, that with map design involving from year to year maps became bigger and notice drops\oracler flying to your base is a little bit harder, then before. On the other hand its just a part of the game and if you are playing jjakji on a big map you must be prepared for much more attention needed to put on the minimap.
As for implementation of some sort of standarts by devs - IDK
P.S. Maybe we need address this to Blizzard or just copy to Bnet forums...
Do they ever read BNet forums..? I never have the idea they spend much time there.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
Very very good point and i'm super interested in this now too
These are just the few maps that came to mind, some quick calculation gives me that Alterzim Stronghold has a surface of 53% larger than Steppes of War.
124x124 Steppes of War
192x192 Alterzim Stronghold
Your calculation is wrong, you assume 192/124 which = 1.55 (rounded to 2 decimal place) which could also be stated as 55% bigger, but that's only using one axis. The map is a square so you could calculate area like:
124*124 = 15376
192*192 = 36864
36864 divided by 15376 is equal to ~2.4.. so the map has 2.4x as much area, on the same minimap space. Objects would have to shrink to about 42% of the size or detail would be lost
Not ~+55% area gained, but ~+140%. Much bigger problem
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On February 27 2014 21:54 Cyro wrote:Very very good point and i'm super interested in this now too Show nested quote +These are just the few maps that came to mind, some quick calculation gives me that Alterzim Stronghold has a surface of 53% larger than Steppes of War. Your calculation is wrong, you assume 192/124 which = 1.55 (rounded to 2 decimal place) which could also be stated as 55% bigger, but that's only using one axis. The map is a square so you could calculate area like: 124*124 = 15376 192*192 = 36864 36864 divided by 15376 is equal to ~2.4.. so the map has 2.4x as much area, on the same minimap space. Objects would have to shrink to about 42% of the size or detail would be lost Not ~+55% area gained, but ~+140%. Much bigger problem
Wow I am retarded 0.0
Hahahahah
Yes, I am interested too 0.0!
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I prefer having the dots adapt to the minimap size, but I understand the point. If the dots would be persistent in size though, even small armies would suddenly look like 200 supply on a big map and it would distract me more personally. Its just a getting used to I guess.
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Haha ,when I bought my current monitor 1-2 years ago I calculated the gain in minimap size beforehand.
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On February 27 2014 21:59 FeyFey wrote:
I prefer having the dots adapt to the minimap size, but I understand the point. If the dots would be persistent in size though, even small armies would suddenly look like 200 supply on a big map and it would distract me more personally. Its just a getting used to I guess.
I mean an overall scaling up of the minimap, not just the dots displayed on it.
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I've posted about this so many times but I still think it's much more important. The really only important thing I think this minimap issue would apply to is things like drops. But if you're a good toss player for example, you have 2-4 obs already and spotting them is very easy if you have the multi-tasking.
The bigger issue for me, and another player on my team is vision of your OWN units. Since the removal of STC, some color blind players have had real issues being able to tell apart things like zergling battles, banelings, etc. For myself, I know from experience that I played much much better with STC as I was able to evaluate and see my own army much better. I'd be able to vividly see how many stalkers I had without having to stare at the bottom pane for the ideal ~12 stalkers in PvT for example. I'd still really like to see this thing make a comeback and it's already present in Gameheart and everyone seems to love it.
In terms of "unfair" advantages, STC does no such thing. It just makes your units have a more vivid color so it's easier to see. All of the other mods like being able to see cloaked units were clearly imbalanced, but as a result of them being removed, had STC due to being unable to edit your files. ;~;
For me though, the red markers point to engagements have always been enough for the minimap, and well, playing BW... you just stare at your minimap more than the main screen almost >.> You just know where your buildings and such are so you don't have to pay as much attention to main screen until engagements.
my2c
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STC is missing badly as well, I loved it to death.
But you cannot deny it is much harder to spot stuff and gauge army sizes/position/movement speed via minimap.
STC might be a bigger miss, but since I noticed this, it has bothered me 
Here's the original thread of STC, for people who don't know what -Kyo- and I are talking about:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216725
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I always wished for a minimap-enhance key (like it exists in nearly every game  ).
Just press a button and you see the whole map in the middle of the screen.
This + customizeable colours of both minimap and battlefield (different colours would be even better).
I am not colourblind but it is sometimes pretty difficult for me to distinguish my and my opponents units on the small map (and the minimap colours of the colourblind mode are too dark and therefore make it more difficult to see drops).
I think one can dream.
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As a color-blind player with glasses, I have to say that with the current mini-map size I do find it difficult to recognize the tiny dots, especially with the terrain on. this forces me to use the no-terrain mode, which as it's own disadvantages(mostly that with the terrain off you can't see the LOS of units like you can with terrain on.
It's not like it would be cheating if you gave the players several different sizes of minimap, I wouldn't even mind just having individual unit pixels be represented in a larger proportion, even if that means losing some of the fluidity of the map.
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On February 27 2014 22:07 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 21:59 FeyFey wrote:
I prefer having the dots adapt to the minimap size, but I understand the point. If the dots would be persistent in size though, even small armies would suddenly look like 200 supply on a big map and it would distract me more personally. Its just a getting used to I guess. I mean an overall scaling up of the minimap, not just the dots displayed on it.
Well the overall scaling can't be changed anyway unless they go for black borders if its not the biggest of maps and then the small maps would be tiny. There is no perfect solution to this, thats why you settle down on one thing and stick with it.
Unless you allow options and if you give those options everyone that knows what they are doing will settle on the same option after a while and have an needless edge over beginners. Just like a mix of different graphic settings allowed players to be known as "sees every cloaked unit".
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On February 27 2014 23:33 FeyFey wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2014 22:07 SC2Toastie wrote:On February 27 2014 21:59 FeyFey wrote:
I prefer having the dots adapt to the minimap size, but I understand the point. If the dots would be persistent in size though, even small armies would suddenly look like 200 supply on a big map and it would distract me more personally. Its just a getting used to I guess. I mean an overall scaling up of the minimap, not just the dots displayed on it. Well the overall scaling can't be changed anyway unless they go for black borders if its not the biggest of maps and then the small maps would be tiny. There is no perfect solution to this, thats why you settle down on one thing and stick with it. Unless you allow options and if you give those options everyone that knows what they are doing will settle on the same option after a while and have an needless edge over beginners. Just like a mix of different graphic settings allowed players to be known as "sees every cloaked unit".
An edge over beginners? Beginners don't use the minimap as much, and indeed the same goes for the graphics.
Black border is a possibility, I haven't really seen a good argument against it...
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Northern Ireland26510 Posts
I can understand Blizz being reticent to allow modding as sadly the worst elements of the community will do all sorts.
STC improved the game for me a lot, more so than Blizz's own colourblind mode. As for the minimap I'd like to see some customisation available for it. As it stands you can cap region to a second monitor but I find it extends that outside of my peripheral vision so it's not really advantageous at all.
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I think the screen is too cluttered as is, I wouldn't want to see a bigger minimap... it's called "mini" for a reason lol If you're watching attentively, you'll see everything you need to see tbh...
I guess I could entertain the idea of having a "temporarily enlarge minimap" key in the same fashion of alt showing health bars when they're off
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Playing on a 14" laptop with an external keyboard (meaning the screen is very far from me), I'd say I won't be against a little re-scaling.
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Russian Federation125 Posts
So i succeded to show minimap on the 2nd monitor
Check this out (clickable)
![[image loading]](http://s24.postimg.org/8oiguvkj5/20140227_212525.jpg)
How i did this:
1) Sc2 in window mode
2) stream in obs
- set source = sc2 window,
- check window region
- select minimap region
- stretch stream to fit whole monitor.
3) Enjoy
p.s. i havn't had any lags. I.e.i move mouse in sc2 - minimap changing on 2nd monitor simultaniously.
Obviously you will need pc with powerful CPU. My config i7 4470k 16Gb DDR.
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I'd like to see a bigger and better minimap not only as a player but also as a viewer. I recall having seen an old documentary about BW in Korea where they drew funny icons and oversimplified arrows on the minimap, does anyone remember that? It was pretty ridiculous, but it did make the game look very strategic. I'm kind of missing some sort of strategic overview of the entire map when watching SC and a larger minimap would be at least a step in the right direction.
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Some nice ideas here. If nothing else, just bumping up the default minimap size to 2 times the current size would be so nice.
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imo eyesight is a biological part of skill at starcraft just like it is for other sports. if you can see what's going on more clearly than others, you're generally going to be better in competitions that involve hand-eye or athletics
don't get me wrong, i would love a bigger minimap and use it to my benefit. i just don't think it's necessarily a "problem" that it's hard to use the minimap well
however, the fact that resolutions are getting tighter and monitors are getting bigger might justify it simply from a design standpoint
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On February 28 2014 03:49 dargul wrote:So i succeded to show minimap on the 2nd monitor Check this out (clickable) How i did this: 1) Sc2 in window mode 2) stream in obs - set source = sc2 window, - check window region - select minimap region - stretch stream to fit whole monitor. 3) Enjoy p.s. i havn't had any lags. I.e.i move mouse in sc2 - minimap changing on 2nd monitor simultaniously. Obviously you will need pc with powerful CPU. My config i7 4470k 16Gb DDR. I wish looking at an entirely different monitor solved the problems instead of making new ones.
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Russian Federation125 Posts
On February 28 2014 18:07 Danglars wrote:
I wish looking at an entirely different monitor solved the problems instead of making new ones.
I don't see any problems if you place monitor with minimap at the left side so that you will copntinue to check minimap at the left side.
I also found 1 more solution for those who don't have 2 monitors.
Check this out (click to enlarge)
![[image loading]](http://s9.postimg.org/kl6xgzfob/111.jpg)
It's preview window in obs.
You can configure it to be above all windows.And of you can change it size adnd capture timer for example too.
+ So actual streaming isn't mandatory for example if you internet isn't good enough.
+ doesn't require 2nd monitor
+ CPU requirements much lower because you aren't streaming
+ You can place minimap at bottom left corner so you can keep you habbits.
But ofcourse there are minuses too
Because you have small window in left corner above sc2 window when you move you mouse in bottom left corner
you change focus from sc2 to obs.
It means that :
- You can't use your real minimap.
I mean sending drop for example by pointing location on minimap.
-You can't scroll your screen to the bottom left side using your mouse.
p.s. personally i prefer 2 monitors version with minimap monitor on the left side. It aslo can be done without stream.
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EPT
