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Starbow - Page 332

Forum Index > SC2 General
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BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5226 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-05 03:21:10
June 05 2015 03:19 GMT
#6621
On June 05 2015 11:30 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
So... just in looking at Day9 talking about Starbow... I'm leaning towards this mod is better than LotV will be and it's horribly depressing.


Why is that depressing?

People still play DOTA on the WC3 servers, not WC3 ladder. People still play Counterstrike on the Half-Life servers, not Half-Life.

The community just needs to accept that it needs to build itself around a mod, and not around the original game.

Right now Blizzard is bank rolling everything to do with WCS, and that's too bad because it is holding back SC2. There was a time when Blizzard didn't have to fund everything because SC2 was on top of the world.

And then David Kim and Dustin Browder proved incapable of fixing the problems SC2 faces. But they weren't fired, Blizzard just bank rolled everything.
Titusmaster6
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States5937 Posts
June 05 2015 03:22 GMT
#6622
Hello vultures, nice to see you again
Shorts down shorts up, BOOM, just like that.
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
June 05 2015 03:37 GMT
#6623
On June 05 2015 12:19 BronzeKnee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2015 11:30 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
So... just in looking at Day9 talking about Starbow... I'm leaning towards this mod is better than LotV will be and it's horribly depressing.


Why is that depressing?

People still play DOTA on the WC3 servers, not WC3 ladder. People still play Counterstrike on the Half-Life servers, not Half-Life.

The community just needs to accept that it needs to build itself around a mod, and not around the original game.

Right now Blizzard is bank rolling everything to do with WCS, and that's too bad because it is holding back SC2. There was a time when Blizzard didn't have to fund everything because SC2 was on top of the world.

And then David Kim and Dustin Browder proved incapable of fixing the problems SC2 faces. But they weren't fired, Blizzard just bank rolled everything.


We all know that the community will never build itself around the mod. Those days are past. No tournaments are gonna pick up Starbow, not in the era where Riot and Valve are willing to throw millions to make their games dominant over the industry. Blizzard will never back a mod either, so it's either main game or nothing.
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-05 03:49:32
June 05 2015 03:47 GMT
#6624
Haven't really kept up with the developments of Starbow until now but it's looking damn good.

Especially TvP, that was the matchup in particular that looked worlds better than its WoL/HotS counterpart. Still does apparently
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
KeksX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany3634 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-05 05:33:15
June 05 2015 05:04 GMT
#6625
EDIT: -snip-


Would be great if Starbow was a thing. Anything putting some kind of competition to Blizzard is great.
Vehk
Profile Joined December 2010
United States151 Posts
June 05 2015 06:27 GMT
#6626
Day[9] Daily - Starbow Launch Special - A look at the PvT Matchup

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

Enjoy!
Organizer, Administrator, and Caster of Monday Night Starbow
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5226 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-05 07:00:11
June 05 2015 06:50 GMT
#6627
On June 05 2015 12:37 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2015 12:19 BronzeKnee wrote:
On June 05 2015 11:30 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
So... just in looking at Day9 talking about Starbow... I'm leaning towards this mod is better than LotV will be and it's horribly depressing.


Why is that depressing?

People still play DOTA on the WC3 servers, not WC3 ladder. People still play Counterstrike on the Half-Life servers, not Half-Life.

The community just needs to accept that it needs to build itself around a mod, and not around the original game.

Right now Blizzard is bank rolling everything to do with WCS, and that's too bad because it is holding back SC2. There was a time when Blizzard didn't have to fund everything because SC2 was on top of the world.

And then David Kim and Dustin Browder proved incapable of fixing the problems SC2 faces. But they weren't fired, Blizzard just bank rolled everything.


We all know that the community will never build itself around the mod. Those days are past. No tournaments are gonna pick up Starbow, not in the era where Riot and Valve are willing to throw millions to make their games dominant over the industry. Blizzard will never back a mod either, so it's either main game or nothing.


We do? Blizzard never backed DOTA (foolishly) the way the Valve backed CS, and look what it became. At this point I'm fairly certain Blizzard has lost it's way completely. They were once a company that made good original games built around good ideas. The old games represented a slow evolution of the RTS genre, playing SC1 was easy after WC2, and better in every way. Diablo 2 was an evolution of Diablo 1, and better in every way.

Now Blizzard is trying way too hard to redefine those genres, and by doing so, have lost a lot of what made their old games special. Diablo 3 is awful compared to Diablo 2. And SC2 is really losing ground. Blizzard can't see good ideas even if they hit them in face these (like DOTA). So I don't have much faith Blizzard will make LOTV fun for me to play and I'll stick to Starbow or other games in general.

I just wonder sometimes, at what point does the bleeding of SC2 get so bad, that Browder and Kim get canned? Now that Blizzard is bank rolling everything in terms of major tournaments (and Homestory Cup, one of the very few major independent tournaments left is having to crowdsource funds...), isn't that a massive sign that SC2 is going in the wrong direction?

When will the board members or whoever realize this, and change the direction of SC2?
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7032 Posts
June 05 2015 11:19 GMT
#6628
On June 05 2015 12:19 BronzeKnee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2015 11:30 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
So... just in looking at Day9 talking about Starbow... I'm leaning towards this mod is better than LotV will be and it's horribly depressing.


Why is that depressing?

People still play DOTA on the WC3 servers, not WC3 ladder. People still play Counterstrike on the Half-Life servers, not Half-Life.

The community just needs to accept that it needs to build itself around a mod, and not around the original game.

You can't really play WC3 on the ladder because of the in-built delay, it's only playable on LAN latency which requires workarounds and the community was always stuck with the same couple of maps, half of them not very good. And DotA is continuously updated while WC3 updates became very infrequent after late 2004. That's at least part of the reason that WC3 died down. I guess this strengthens your point, but I want to add that WC3 and DotA are basically independent while SC2 & Starbow are more direct competitors. It makes no sense to say you should rally around DotA if you don't like the lack of support for WC3 while I would be very happy if SC2 was replaced by Starbow.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
Deleted User 26513
Profile Joined February 2007
2376 Posts
June 05 2015 12:01 GMT
#6629
On June 05 2015 15:50 BronzeKnee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2015 12:37 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
On June 05 2015 12:19 BronzeKnee wrote:
On June 05 2015 11:30 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
So... just in looking at Day9 talking about Starbow... I'm leaning towards this mod is better than LotV will be and it's horribly depressing.


Why is that depressing?

People still play DOTA on the WC3 servers, not WC3 ladder. People still play Counterstrike on the Half-Life servers, not Half-Life.

The community just needs to accept that it needs to build itself around a mod, and not around the original game.

Right now Blizzard is bank rolling everything to do with WCS, and that's too bad because it is holding back SC2. There was a time when Blizzard didn't have to fund everything because SC2 was on top of the world.

And then David Kim and Dustin Browder proved incapable of fixing the problems SC2 faces. But they weren't fired, Blizzard just bank rolled everything.


We all know that the community will never build itself around the mod. Those days are past. No tournaments are gonna pick up Starbow, not in the era where Riot and Valve are willing to throw millions to make their games dominant over the industry. Blizzard will never back a mod either, so it's either main game or nothing.


We do? Blizzard never backed DOTA (foolishly) the way the Valve backed CS, and look what it became. At this point I'm fairly certain Blizzard has lost it's way completely. They were once a company that made good original games built around good ideas. The old games represented a slow evolution of the RTS genre, playing SC1 was easy after WC2, and better in every way. Diablo 2 was an evolution of Diablo 1, and better in every way.

Now Blizzard is trying way too hard to redefine those genres, and by doing so, have lost a lot of what made their old games special. Diablo 3 is awful compared to Diablo 2. And SC2 is really losing ground. Blizzard can't see good ideas even if they hit them in face these (like DOTA). So I don't have much faith Blizzard will make LOTV fun for me to play and I'll stick to Starbow or other games in general.

I just wonder sometimes, at what point does the bleeding of SC2 get so bad, that Browder and Kim get canned? Now that Blizzard is bank rolling everything in terms of major tournaments (and Homestory Cup, one of the very few major independent tournaments left is having to crowdsource funds...), isn't that a massive sign that SC2 is going in the wrong direction?

When will the board members or whoever realize this, and change the direction of SC2?

Lol, I don't think you realize that you are talking about dead(or extremely niche) genre.
The board of the directors won't "change the direction" of SC2, they will just cut the life support.
Also only clueless person will state that Diablo 3 is worse than Diablo 2... Or maybe clouded by nostalgia.
Superouman
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
France2195 Posts
June 05 2015 12:08 GMT
#6630
On June 05 2015 11:09 NasusAndDraven wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2015 11:01 Xiphias wrote:
Day9 doing a daily about Starbow now. Live: http://www.twitch.tv/day9tv

lol is this for real? i wonder is or how much is he getting payed

They offered him all the skins of Draven and Nasus. Of course he accepted.
Search "[SO]" on B.net to find all my maps ||| Cloud Kingdom / Turbo Cruise '84 / Bone Temple / Eternal Empire / Zen / Purity and Industry / Golden Wall / Fortitude / Beckett Industries / Waterfall
NasusAndDraven
Profile Joined April 2015
359 Posts
June 05 2015 12:41 GMT
#6631
On June 05 2015 21:08 Superouman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2015 11:09 NasusAndDraven wrote:
On June 05 2015 11:01 Xiphias wrote:
Day9 doing a daily about Starbow now. Live: http://www.twitch.tv/day9tv

lol is this for real? i wonder is or how much is he getting payed

They offered him all the skins of Draven and Nasus. Of course he accepted.

In that case so would i. Even thou classic draven is best nasus skins are rly good.

Anyway OT: If starbow became big then it would be nice as arcade is free and i would not have to even buy lotv.
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23580 Posts
June 05 2015 13:18 GMT
#6632
Starbow needs matchmaking, without matchmaking no competitive game can make it nowadays.
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
June 05 2015 13:27 GMT
#6633
On June 05 2015 22:18 Musicus wrote:
Starbow needs matchmaking, without matchmaking no competitive game can make it nowadays.

Starbow has had matchmaking for like a year now.

http://eros.starbowmod.com/
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23580 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-05 13:51:36
June 05 2015 13:48 GMT
#6634
On June 05 2015 22:27 Ej_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2015 22:18 Musicus wrote:
Starbow needs matchmaking, without matchmaking no competitive game can make it nowadays.

Starbow has had matchmaking for like a year now.

http://eros.starbowmod.com/


Ingame matchmaking I mean. A "click 1 button and the game starts" thing.

Also it's 2015, we can not compare the situation to Dota or CS back then.
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
Ardias
Profile Joined January 2014
Russian Federation618 Posts
June 05 2015 19:01 GMT
#6635
On June 05 2015 22:48 Musicus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2015 22:27 Ej_ wrote:
On June 05 2015 22:18 Musicus wrote:
Starbow needs matchmaking, without matchmaking no competitive game can make it nowadays.

Starbow has had matchmaking for like a year now.

http://eros.starbowmod.com/


Ingame matchmaking I mean. A "click 1 button and the game starts" thing.



Impossible to make without breaking license agreement. The system we have already is the best possible solution.

Also I don't understand the argument "Starbow is so good, pity it will never be big". Of course it won't, but if you like the game, why don't you just play it regardless of its worldwide popularity? I mean, that's what games are for in the first place, to play and have fun. I only wish that Starbow had stable playerbase which is big enough to find games at any time.


Mess with the best or die like the rest.
BaronVonOwn
Profile Joined April 2011
299 Posts
June 05 2015 19:30 GMT
#6636
On June 05 2015 12:37 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
We all know that the community will never build itself around the mod. Those days are past. No tournaments are gonna pick up Starbow, not in the era where Riot and Valve are willing to throw millions to make their games dominant over the industry. Blizzard will never back a mod either, so it's either main game or nothing.

Really? The arcade is the most popular part of SC2 right now, and it's free. In BW, the Blizzard-designed "main game" wasn't actually that popular either. Most people either played UMS, fastest map, BGH etc. Maybe it's time the competitive community aligned itself with the real player base.
Highways
Profile Joined July 2005
Australia6124 Posts
June 06 2015 01:10 GMT
#6637
This looks better than LotV
#1 Terran hater
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5226 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-06 05:15:24
June 06 2015 05:05 GMT
#6638
On June 05 2015 21:01 Pr0wler wrote:

Also only clueless person will state that Diablo 3 is worse than Diablo 2... Or maybe clouded by nostalgia.


(Error 3003)

To be fair, I haven't play Diablo 3 in years, and I only played for a couple of weeks after release.

So Diablo 3 is like that old girl friend that cheated on me. I don't care how much she has "changed" or "grown up." She still sucks, and I won't be any part of supporting that kind of behavior by giving her a second chance. You don't cheat on people or release games like that, in terrible condition. It was almost as bad as when CA released Rome II.

So I won't support that. Fool my wallet (or my heart) once, shame on you, fool it twice... shame on me. I'm not going to be shamed.

On June 05 2015 20:19 Grumbels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2015 12:19 BronzeKnee wrote:
On June 05 2015 11:30 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
So... just in looking at Day9 talking about Starbow... I'm leaning towards this mod is better than LotV will be and it's horribly depressing.


Why is that depressing?

People still play DOTA on the WC3 servers, not WC3 ladder. People still play Counterstrike on the Half-Life servers, not Half-Life.

The community just needs to accept that it needs to build itself around a mod, and not around the original game.

You can't really play WC3 on the ladder because of the in-built delay, it's only playable on LAN latency which requires workarounds and the community was always stuck with the same couple of maps, half of them not very good. And DotA is continuously updated while WC3 updates became very infrequent after late 2004. That's at least part of the reason that WC3 died down. I guess this strengthens your point, but I want to add that WC3 and DotA are basically independent while SC2 & Starbow are more direct competitors. It makes no sense to say you should rally around DotA if you don't like the lack of support for WC3 while I would be very happy if SC2 was replaced by Starbow.


Sure there are differences, but everything doesn't have to be the same. Half-Life was wildly popular on release, as was WC3. If I told the community would be build a couple of mods for those games that would define game for the next two decades when they were released, people would have never believed me.

But if no one believes it can happen, it won't happen.
NasusAndDraven
Profile Joined April 2015
359 Posts
June 06 2015 06:05 GMT
#6639
On June 06 2015 14:05 BronzeKnee wrote:If I told the community would be build a couple of mods for those games that would define game for the next two decades when they were released, people would have never believed me.

But if no one believes it can happen, it won't happen.

You cant blame "the community" really as they were right about the 5000 other mods that did not become anything.

So yeah if there are 50 games with 100 serious mods each and out of all of these 2 became big (CS and DotA), then where would you expect starbow will land? With the 2 or with the 5000? Statistics are not on your side really.
Endymion
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States3701 Posts
June 06 2015 07:26 GMT
#6640
On June 06 2015 15:05 NasusAndDraven wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2015 14:05 BronzeKnee wrote:If I told the community would be build a couple of mods for those games that would define game for the next two decades when they were released, people would have never believed me.

But if no one believes it can happen, it won't happen.

You cant blame "the community" really as they were right about the 5000 other mods that did not become anything.

So yeah if there are 50 games with 100 serious mods each and out of all of these 2 became big (CS and DotA), then where would you expect starbow will land? With the 2 or with the 5000? Statistics are not on your side really.


well with that attitude i would only expect shitty games for the next 20 years given general trends in gaming right now. I want starbow to take after Witcher 3, not Assassin's Creed Unity, regardless of "statistics being on its side."
Have you considered the MMO-Champion forum? You are just as irrational and delusional with the right portion of nostalgic populism. By the way: The old Brood War was absolutely unplayable
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