On March 06 2014 01:52 tehredbanditt wrote: I'm looking for some new ideas. I'm having a hard time vs p/t. On most maps taking a quick third against a fast Exp opponent is getting more and more difficult. Gateway/ rax timing attacks are troublesome. Esp if it's not practical map for sunkens. Fire bats are creaming my lings/ slow banes. But what do I make besides them? It feels like I need to just 2 base vs their two base and equal worker count while hiding behind sunkens. Teching feels weak too. Two base Lurk timings are feeling weak because by the time they are out ,moving across the map is an extremely up hill battle against big numbers of bio. I have a few ideas left to explore. One balance whine from me. Zerg macro machanic has always and still feels weak to me. Could just be me though !
You have to actually learn how to play ZvT.
Go muta into lurkers into defilers. It's weaker in starbow but I have no problems vs any terrans but dirtybag and beastyqt.
Also you aren't fully utilising the ability to power with ling bane into tech units. you make too many lings and banelings and rely on the terran making a mistake.
ZvP is also pretty easy.
3 hatch spire into 5 hatch hydra into either lurkers and hive, muta snipe and mass hydra, or baneling drop with mass hydra or ling.
Again, no problems vs any protoss on ladder.
Weaker???
Hum, yea by a lot. 3 hatch muta just dies to all most any stim timing, In BW, only a 4 rax +1 timing could bust a sunken wall Doing so was simi-allin as vessels came out later. But now with overcharge form 2 CC's Terran can get 4 rax worth of units with only 2 raxs and also tech at the same time.
Lurkers just can't hold ground vs bio, Fierbats and mraders tank soo much form lurkers, Also the AI works in favor of Bio greatly reducing the effectiveness of line splash
This isn't my experience with 2 hatch muta into lurkers and fast defilers. You don't even need to engage the Terran directly until you have dark swarm and plague. You can do hidden nydus and crackling defiler expansions. You can also build preemptive nydus to allow you to expand easily.
I actually think that marauder firebat is terrible once plague gets involved, you really need to be careful as Terran once the game reaches that stage.
You won't snipe most HT if protoss has 6 corsairs with +1 weapons. Unless Protoss is bad.
With regards to your comment on 5 hatch hydra being out dated zvp, it's not. The fourth base follow up that you see on fighting spirit (I imagine that's what you're talking about) with the wall in is a pretty standard 4th base timing and has been for about 6 years. The faster hive is map dependent, and a pretty nice play in starbow with the strength of crackling nydus play in the late game.
Muta's and 4th base is still very standard in bw on maps with wallable 3rd --> 4th.
I dunno dude, you're just off the mark with a lot of your comments.
Why is there a constant attempt to remove shuttle reaver micro from the game?
Terran and Zerg have both been given really overly strong hardcounters to shuttle reaver as an army component in Starbow. If you build them as an army unit vs a Terran going bio and they have one ghost, one 50/150 unit can shut down 2 reavers in a shuttle. I pretty much never go reavers vs bio anymore, simply because they auto win if they make a ghost or 2.
The same is true of PvZ with abduct. You don't even need to fly that close to their vipers, and if you get in range, even if you pull back out of the way, the abduct will follow the shuttle and pull it over to the viper. I've even had corsairs pulled from off screen by vipers they got too close to.
I don't think abilities like this have much place in this mod as they don't reward control and just provide hard counters to highly microable units. I don't really understand the logic behind putting them in, and hope they get altered or removed ( like the protoss one on sentinels did.)
Ok, after going 0-7, and losing to the same guy (Gypsy!!!!!!) 5 times inna row awhile ago, imma try to get back to laddering, streams up, you know the drill, bad plays, good music..... http://www.twitch.tv/rebufferingg
On March 06 2014 08:26 Foxxan wrote: @economy The ingame income tab shows only x/43 seconds While the tab after the game shows x/60seconds
So its almost 30% less on the ingametab
Well the point was to show how the income tab changes with number of workers and it would be proportional to the game. But thanks for pointing out this fact, I just used "display current mineral income" trigger. I did not know it did not show the same as the income tab in replays.
On March 06 2014 11:42 rebuffering wrote: Ok, after going 0-7, and losing to the same guy (Gypsy!!!!!!) 5 times inna row awhile ago, imma try to get back to laddering, streams up, you know the drill, bad plays, good music..... http://www.twitch.tv/rebufferingg
I been watching some of the games against this guy. You are late with Science Vessels, you tried to defend mass mutas with vikings and goliaths only. You need AA towers and Irradiate. Also I been watching your stream when I am able and you are online and one common thing in most of your matches is that you are always floating a lot of money. Turn that money into more production facilities and troops.
On March 06 2014 09:43 Piy wrote: Why is there a constant attempt to remove shuttle reaver micro from the game?
Terran and Zerg have both been given really overly strong hardcounters to shuttle reaver as an army component in Starbow. If you build them as an army unit vs a Terran going bio and they have one ghost, one 50/150 unit can shut down 2 reavers in a shuttle. I pretty much never go reavers vs bio anymore, simply because they auto win if they make a ghost or 2.
The same is true of PvZ with abduct. You don't even need to fly that close to their vipers, and if you get in range, even if you pull back out of the way, the abduct will follow the shuttle and pull it over to the viper. I've even had corsairs pulled from off screen by vipers they got too close to.
I don't think abilities like this have much place in this mod as they don't reward control and just provide hard counters to highly microable units. I don't really understand the logic behind putting them in, and hope they get altered or removed ( like the protoss one on sentinels did.)
It's not so much an attempt to remove reaver play as it is to give the races a way to counter it. Maaaybe we went overboard with counters. We'll look into this.
On March 06 2014 09:43 Piy wrote: Why is there a constant attempt to remove shuttle reaver micro from the game?
Terran and Zerg have both been given really overly strong hardcounters to shuttle reaver as an army component in Starbow. If you build them as an army unit vs a Terran going bio and they have one ghost, one 50/150 unit can shut down 2 reavers in a shuttle. I pretty much never go reavers vs bio anymore, simply because they auto win if they make a ghost or 2.
The same is true of PvZ with abduct. You don't even need to fly that close to their vipers, and if you get in range, even if you pull back out of the way, the abduct will follow the shuttle and pull it over to the viper. I've even had corsairs pulled from off screen by vipers they got too close to.
I don't think abilities like this have much place in this mod as they don't reward control and just provide hard counters to highly microable units. I don't really understand the logic behind putting them in, and hope they get altered or removed ( like the protoss one on sentinels did.)
It's not so much an attempt to remove reaver play as it is to give the races a way to counter it. Maaaybe we went overboard with counters. We'll look into this.
I LOVE reaver play and we want to encourage it.
Only way to encourage it is to weaken Storm. Currently Storm play takes much less micro to accomplish and Reavers are not needed. But yes, abduct might be too strong vs Reavers.
On March 06 2014 09:43 Piy wrote: Why is there a constant attempt to remove shuttle reaver micro from the game?
Terran and Zerg have both been given really overly strong hardcounters to shuttle reaver as an army component in Starbow. If you build them as an army unit vs a Terran going bio and they have one ghost, one 50/150 unit can shut down 2 reavers in a shuttle. I pretty much never go reavers vs bio anymore, simply because they auto win if they make a ghost or 2.
The same is true of PvZ with abduct. You don't even need to fly that close to their vipers, and if you get in range, even if you pull back out of the way, the abduct will follow the shuttle and pull it over to the viper. I've even had corsairs pulled from off screen by vipers they got too close to.
I don't think abilities like this have much place in this mod as they don't reward control and just provide hard counters to highly microable units. I don't really understand the logic behind putting them in, and hope they get altered or removed ( like the protoss one on sentinels did.)
It's not so much an attempt to remove reaver play as it is to give the races a way to counter it. Maaaybe we went overboard with counters. We'll look into this.
I LOVE reaver play and we want to encourage it.
The ways to shut down the harass already existed before there was ever a thing called a Viper or whatever the Ghost ability you guys made was. There doesn't need to be hard counters. Reavers are already bad as is in PvZ compared to BW, too. Reavers melted Hydras in BW, and the splash doesn't seem nearly as efficient in Starbow.
EPT
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