EPTLurkers seem very strong against protoss atm, even with dragoon range in mid game.
Starbow - Page 186
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
Brindled
United States508 Posts
Lurkers seem very strong against protoss atm, even with dragoon range in mid game. | ||
|
Zhadez10
Iceland39 Posts
On February 14 2014 23:33 Piy wrote: I don't think it would make much difference to the actual problems in the mu right now. Currently the problem is that zerg can have a strong 3 base economy before even stim is finished. Adding another upgrade isn't going to give Terran more pressure options early game and banelings aren't particularly strong in the mid or late game anyway. It's the momentum from being able to take such a fast third and delay lair that's the problem, not the inability of mass bio to deal with mass speed bane. Zerg doesn't even generally make more than 8-10 blings, but they can skip muta and use the ability to defend their fast third gas with ling bane to tech defiler lurker faster. This is generally what I've observed in the mu. I agree with this but I think with combat shields there will probably be some 2 base timing pushes that outright kill a 3 basing zerg, or at the very least let them pressure enough to take a third of their own. | ||
|
Piy
Scotland3152 Posts
| ||
|
Hider
Denmark9341 Posts
On February 15 2014 01:59 Piy wrote: With regards to using speed vultures, vulture play is pretty much the standard opening for Terran now. Then get some pressure on the map with bio and then go mech and split map. It's exciting to watch and fun to play and everything, but if you want to see more bio play in the mu, particularly early on, then you need to make banelings weaker in the 5-9 minute window to prevent zerg from powering vs bio so hard. After that is kind of irrelevant since blings aren't very strong mid game, but they buy zerg the extra 30 seconds to 1 minute that they need to get 15 more drones and skip spine crawlers to have a very strong economy vs a 2 base Terran. It seems that optimal openings change within a very short time frame. From my experience most players still have really unrefined openings as they still haven't properly incorporated orbital/overcharge play into their openings. I don't think we can say any conclusive about which types of openings are possible and which one shuts bio play down. We can ofc make guesses and observe, but for the time being we should IMO be more patient regarding early game play. After that is kind of irrelevant since blings aren't very strong mid game, but they buy zerg the extra 30 seconds to 1 minute that they need to get 15 more drones and skip spine crawlers to have a very strong If you have watched TheredBandit play, he actually does the total reverse thing. He doens't get banelings early game, but masses them in the midgame with good success. | ||
|
Jermman
Canada174 Posts
| ||
|
Jermman
Canada174 Posts
| ||
|
Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On February 15 2014 01:04 Brindled wrote: Lurkers seem very strong against protoss atm, even with dragoon range in mid game. Yeah, I've said this already. Lurkers are buffed a lot since BW, I understand it is because of the Bio, but they are just stronger against Protoss since Protoss didn't get anything to compensate. Marines have 45 HP instead of 40, and Firebats 100 instead of 50, Marauders are introduced. So for Lurkers to be able to fight all of this, their damaged is increased to 23 from 20, and HP to 140 from 125, but problem is Protoss early game units are the same as in BW. People were trying everything, Mutas, Roaches, Hydras etc. but I still think that Lurkers + Lings with Scourge support wreck Protoss right now just because of the Lurkers and it is great opener. | ||
|
Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
On February 15 2014 03:14 Ramiz1989 wrote: Yeah, I've said this already. Lurkers are buffed a lot since BW, I understand it is because of the Bio, but they are just stronger against Protoss since Protoss didn't get anything to compensate. Marines have 45 HP instead of 40, and Firebats 100 instead of 50, Marauders are introduced. So for Lurkers to be able to fight all of this, their damaged is increased to 23 from 20, and HP to 140 from 125, but problem is Protoss early game units are the same as in BW. People were trying everything, Mutas, Roaches, Hydras etc. but I still think that Lurkers + Lings with Scourge support wreck Protoss right now just because of the Lurkers and it is great opener. Lurkers are armored so dragoons do more damage. In fact i think they kill them faster in starbow compared to broodwar | ||
|
Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On February 15 2014 03:24 Foxxan wrote: Lurkers are armored so dragoons do more damage. In fact i think they kill them faster in starbow compared to broodwar Yes I just saw that, but they are still better overall against Protoss than they were in BW. They can take whole Psi Storm and not be on ~10 HP, Reavers are doing less damage than in BW, only Dragoons do more but Lurkers also have more HP and Ling + Lurkers are really good against Zealots and Dragoons in general. | ||
|
WarpTV
205 Posts
On February 15 2014 01:59 Piy wrote: With regards to using speed vultures, vulture play is pretty much the standard opening for Terran now. Then get some pressure on the map with bio and then go mech and split map. It's exciting to watch and fun to play and everything, but if you want to see more bio play in the mu, particularly early on, then you need to make banelings weaker in the 5-9 minute window to prevent zerg from powering vs bio so hard. After that is kind of irrelevant since blings aren't very strong mid game, but they buy zerg the extra 30 seconds to 1 minute that they need to get 15 more drones and skip spine crawlers to have a very strong economy vs a 2 base Terran. The real problem is not a unit, it is a build. Zerg's 3 base bane as outlined above is aimed to force a macro game. All that I see right now out of terrans is, 1- more agression 2- NERF ZERG ARGGG No one seem to be talking about a counter macro build. In Sc2, Top level Terrans did not deal with 3 base zerg via allins It was done with the 3 Orbital command build. Speed Vultures + bio also lands Terran in a safe spot and zerg tends to be pined back from the harass. Terran should spot where they can get out a fast 3rd with a Starbow version of the 3'OC build. Terran can then move in to a strong +1/+1 timing with vessels. I fear it will be zerg that has meta game problems in the coming months when terran has a new build to answer zerg's "3 base bane". But right now, Terran is the one evolving the meta in TvZ. As so many Terrans are trying to find a solution. Wile some look with in the game. Others cry out "nerf" because they don't know how to innovate. Oh and... mines > ling bane... Just putting that out there. | ||
|
Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
 Gonna cast some games: www.twitch.tv/SC2_Starbow | ||
|
Kaos_StarCraft
Australia92 Posts
| ||
|
Jermman
Canada174 Posts
| ||
|
Grumbels
Netherlands7028 Posts
On February 15 2014 05:23 Jermman wrote: Ladder comes out monday??? Fuck yeah, source? two posts above yours xiphias mentioned it :o | ||
|
Jermman
Canada174 Posts
| ||
|
crashonly
Finland418 Posts
On February 15 2014 05:38 Jermman wrote: Yeah but is it for sure monday? :p Xiphias just said in stream that really really hopefully monday  So guess not 100%, but probably will be | ||
|
Deleted User 97295
1137 Posts
| ||
|
tehredbanditt
103 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
|
Season
United States301 Posts
On February 15 2014 06:18 tehredbanditt wrote: I know this thread is turning into a balance/whine/suggestion thread, but I'd like to thank the starbow team for all the great work they've done so far. Thanks for letting me enjoy RTS's again. I'm pretty sure you guys are our only hope for the foreseeable future when it comes to a quality RTS game. SC2 will continue to be shit and BW will continue to decline and have virtually no new users entering the scene due to how hard it is to play mechanically(at my old age of 26 bw actually takes a physical tole on my hands/wrist). So, here's to an awesome game with an awesome development team! Keep up the good work! I second this!! I had not played SC2 since the beginning of HotS (and even then only casually with friends) but Starbow has brought me back to my competitive times. Hoping this continues to increase in popularity so we can have more players and more great games! | ||
|
Jermman
Canada174 Posts
On February 15 2014 06:18 tehredbanditt wrote: I know this thread is turning into a balance/whine/suggestion thread, but I'd like to thank the starbow team for all the great work they've done so far. Thanks for letting me enjoy RTS's again. I'm pretty sure you guys are our only hope for the foreseeable future when it comes to a quality RTS game. SC2 will continue to be shit and BW will continue to decline and have virtually no new users entering the scene due to how hard it is to play mechanically(at my old age of 26 bw actually takes a physical tole on my hands/wrist). So, here's to an awesome game with an awesome development team! Keep up the good work! 100% this | ||
| ||
