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On December 24 2013 22:44 Xoronius wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2013 22:38 Grumbels wrote:On December 24 2013 22:25 opterown wrote:^ ah, but that's not what you have been saying, you started this by saying that flash is outright better than maru, we're here to show you how delusional that perception is. Maru does well for three months after three years of middling performances and people think he's better than Flash? I'm just saying that you shouldn't overrate Maru and sOs based on recent performances I'd easily bet for Flash to do better this season than Maru. you don't write off Flash after one slump and that he is considerably more talented than Maru i think flash may do better than maru in PL, but flash is not better than maru, nor is he guaranteed to do better as you've been saying. being a better player does not guarantee you a better record in PL. plus you follow up with this ridiculous question lol Why does Flash have so many anti-fans? I believe that Flash is the fundamentally better player, that doesn't mean he is always going to have better form than Maru. What did I say that was inconsistent? Maru's play improved, and he did better (and played better) than Flash for a period of a few months, although some of that is because he had more chances to show his skill, however it's highly questionable whether he can maintain peak form and I also believe that if Flash returns to peak ability he will be better than Maru and that this will be evidenced by him doing better in PL than Maru. And Flash having anti-fans is obvious when you look at many posts in this thread. If you have the time to go through my post history to check for quotes then surely you can check for anti-Flash comments in this thread. If 99% of the posts say, that Maru>Flash and 1% say Flash>Maru, than 99% of the forum users are Flash anti-fans. There is no way, that the 1% are Flash fanboys, right? There is no anti-fanboyism here, we are just defending the obvious truth. If opterown and Zealously, Startale and Prime are standing united against your opinion, that is a high indicator, that your opinion is just irrational.
Here are some of the posts I was thinking of, not necessarily Zealously&opterown's posts.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 24 2013 06:09 redviper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2013 05:10 Grumbels wrote:On December 24 2013 05:07 Zealously wrote:
I don't think we think that Maru is better than Flash, I'm pretty sure we know he is. I'd easily bet for Flash to do better this season than Maru. Haven't people been beating the Flash drum since last year? And yet he is totally invisible. I guess he won a few games in pro league but his team didn't even win the PL. On December 24 2013 06:14 redviper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2013 06:12 LongShot27 wrote:On December 24 2013 06:09 redviper wrote:On December 24 2013 05:10 Grumbels wrote:On December 24 2013 05:07 Zealously wrote:
I don't think we think that Maru is better than Flash, I'm pretty sure we know he is. I'd easily bet for Flash to do better this season than Maru. Haven't people been beating the Flash drum since last year? And yet he is totally invisible. I guess he won a few games in pro league but his team didn't even win the PL. Won the most games in proleague...I dont like flash that much but give him the respect he's earned But he didn't win anything. Winning games means nothing. Particularly if its only in PL. Winning tournaments deserves respect. Even Jaedong has now won something. On December 24 2013 07:50 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2013 07:41 ZAiNs wrote:On December 24 2013 06:14 redviper wrote:On December 24 2013 06:12 LongShot27 wrote:On December 24 2013 06:09 redviper wrote:On December 24 2013 05:10 Grumbels wrote:On December 24 2013 05:07 Zealously wrote:
I don't think we think that Maru is better than Flash, I'm pretty sure we know he is. I'd easily bet for Flash to do better this season than Maru. Haven't people been beating the Flash drum since last year? And yet he is totally invisible. I guess he won a few games in pro league but his team didn't even win the PL. Won the most games in proleague...I dont like flash that much but give him the respect he's earned But he didn't win anything. Winning games means nothing. Particularly if its only in PL. Winning tournaments deserves respect. Even Jaedong has now won something. JD gets flown all over the world to play in foreign tournaments and plays in easy WCS NA. Flash had to deal with a Parting Life Innovation RO16 group while Jaedong got 2-0d by theognis in the first round of WCS NA Challenger and dropped a game to Drunkenboi. Jaedong was looking for his motivation which he found. Flash chose the easy way with the high salary and taken care of team house. Give JD props for trying out something new. On December 24 2013 05:29 FeyFey wrote:
Well last proleague flash just had to scout a prepared protoss allin and defend them barely and then a-move over a clueless Protoss, so it looked like he is good. This year will be a bit tougher, atleast I hope so. On December 24 2013 05:30 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2013 05:17 Dodgin wrote:
Best part of proleague: Flash fans get to pretend he's good at the game. It may sound crazy but this might actually be the reason I did not miss PL at all... On December 24 2013 05:17 Dodgin wrote:
Best part of proleague: Flash fans get to pretend he's good at the game.
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On December 24 2013 22:52 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2013 22:49 LightSpectra wrote:On December 24 2013 22:43 Acrofales wrote:
Korea only had groups of death. Its your inherent bias that says Flash was put in hard groups while Maru got easy groups. There were NO easy groups in Korea. Right. Because Flash-Bogus-Life-PartinG is totally comparable to Maru-Sleep-Bbyong-Dream. Now, Maru and Flash were in the same group once, and Maru came out on top 2-1. That day, he played better than Flash. And that was a group of death. But that was pretty much the best thing Maru's ever done in his entire career, so it's not exactly fair to compare literally every season Flash plays in WCS to Maru's miracle run. Miracle run? people are still calling Maru's achievements miracle runs? haha
So we can arbitrary disregard every time when Flash 4-0s his group or has a dozen allkills in Proleague, but Maru, who has won exactly 1 (one) tournament ever, didn't have a miracle run? k.
Addendum: sorry, Maru did win another tournament. In February, he won the SUPER STACKED Asia Starcraft League, racking up an amazing hitlist of Yoyo, F91, MacSed, Sen, and finishing off his dominant mega-run of the ages by going 3-2 against BboongBbooong.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50604 Posts
can't flash fans employ a wait and see policy, or is really necessary to argue his condition.
right now, maru's results speak louder than flash's...Bringing up his BW achievements mean nothing here and now.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On December 24 2013 22:55 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2013 22:52 opterown wrote:On December 24 2013 22:49 LightSpectra wrote:On December 24 2013 22:43 Acrofales wrote:
Korea only had groups of death. Its your inherent bias that says Flash was put in hard groups while Maru got easy groups. There were NO easy groups in Korea. Right. Because Flash-Bogus-Life-PartinG is totally comparable to Maru-Sleep-Bbyong-Dream. Now, Maru and Flash were in the same group once, and Maru came out on top 2-1. That day, he played better than Flash. And that was a group of death. But that was pretty much the best thing Maru's ever done in his entire career, so it's not exactly fair to compare literally every season Flash plays in WCS to Maru's miracle run. Miracle run? people are still calling Maru's achievements miracle runs? haha So we can arbitrary disregard every time when Flash 4-0s his group or has a dozen allkills in Proleague, but Maru, who has won exactly 1 (one) tournament ever, didn't have a miracle run? k. Addendum: sorry, Maru did win another tournament. In February, he won the SUPER STACKED Asia Starcraft League, racking up an amazing hitlist of Yoyo, F91, MacSed, Sen, and finishing off his dominant mega-run of the ages by going 3-2 against BboongBbooong.
I seem to recall a semifinal or five but maybe I'm wrong
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On December 24 2013 22:55 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2013 22:52 opterown wrote:On December 24 2013 22:49 LightSpectra wrote:On December 24 2013 22:43 Acrofales wrote:
Korea only had groups of death. Its your inherent bias that says Flash was put in hard groups while Maru got easy groups. There were NO easy groups in Korea. Right. Because Flash-Bogus-Life-PartinG is totally comparable to Maru-Sleep-Bbyong-Dream. Now, Maru and Flash were in the same group once, and Maru came out on top 2-1. That day, he played better than Flash. And that was a group of death. But that was pretty much the best thing Maru's ever done in his entire career, so it's not exactly fair to compare literally every season Flash plays in WCS to Maru's miracle run. Miracle run? people are still calling Maru's achievements miracle runs? haha So we can arbitrary disregard every time when Flash 4-0s his group or has a dozen allkills in Proleague, but Maru, who has won exactly 1 (one) tournament ever, didn't have a miracle run? k. Addendum: sorry, Maru did win another tournament. In February, he won the SUPER STACKED Asia Starcraft League, racking up an amazing hitlist of Yoyo, F91, MacSed, Sen, and finishing off his dominant mega-run of the ages by going 3-2 against BboongBbooong.
So Maru's win was a miracle run BUT Flash's MLG run is proof of his ability.
Right.
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Okay so Flash sucks, but what if he joined Prime?
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50604 Posts
On December 24 2013 22:59 Epamynondas wrote:
Okay so Flash sucks, but what if he joined Prime?
wat
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On December 24 2013 22:57 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2013 22:55 LightSpectra wrote:On December 24 2013 22:52 opterown wrote:On December 24 2013 22:49 LightSpectra wrote:On December 24 2013 22:43 Acrofales wrote:
Korea only had groups of death. Its your inherent bias that says Flash was put in hard groups while Maru got easy groups. There were NO easy groups in Korea. Right. Because Flash-Bogus-Life-PartinG is totally comparable to Maru-Sleep-Bbyong-Dream. Now, Maru and Flash were in the same group once, and Maru came out on top 2-1. That day, he played better than Flash. And that was a group of death. But that was pretty much the best thing Maru's ever done in his entire career, so it's not exactly fair to compare literally every season Flash plays in WCS to Maru's miracle run. Miracle run? people are still calling Maru's achievements miracle runs? haha So we can arbitrary disregard every time when Flash 4-0s his group or has a dozen allkills in Proleague, but Maru, who has won exactly 1 (one) tournament ever, didn't have a miracle run? k. Addendum: sorry, Maru did win another tournament. In February, he won the SUPER STACKED Asia Starcraft League, racking up an amazing hitlist of Yoyo, F91, MacSed, Sen, and finishing off his dominant mega-run of the ages by going 3-2 against BboongBbooong. I seem to recall a semifinal or five but maybe I'm wrong
Maru's a good player, and nobody is saying otherwise. But aside from his miracle run, he's not racking up any huge achievements, and in the context of the whole of 2013, he hasn't really shown himself to be a super dominant player that's leagues ahead of Flash, as many here seem to be painting the portrait as.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
exactly how many all-kills does flash have in SC2?
2 all-kills, one of EG-TL, another of CJ compared to Maru's 1 all-kill, a 6-0 of StarTale -> hardly something you split either way.
exactly how many 4-0's does flash have in SC2?
1
haha this guy. you should check stats before spouting stuff off.
On December 24 2013 23:00 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2013 22:57 Zealously wrote:On December 24 2013 22:55 LightSpectra wrote:On December 24 2013 22:52 opterown wrote:On December 24 2013 22:49 LightSpectra wrote:On December 24 2013 22:43 Acrofales wrote:
Korea only had groups of death. Its your inherent bias that says Flash was put in hard groups while Maru got easy groups. There were NO easy groups in Korea. Right. Because Flash-Bogus-Life-PartinG is totally comparable to Maru-Sleep-Bbyong-Dream. Now, Maru and Flash were in the same group once, and Maru came out on top 2-1. That day, he played better than Flash. And that was a group of death. But that was pretty much the best thing Maru's ever done in his entire career, so it's not exactly fair to compare literally every season Flash plays in WCS to Maru's miracle run. Miracle run? people are still calling Maru's achievements miracle runs? haha So we can arbitrary disregard every time when Flash 4-0s his group or has a dozen allkills in Proleague, but Maru, who has won exactly 1 (one) tournament ever, didn't have a miracle run? k. Addendum: sorry, Maru did win another tournament. In February, he won the SUPER STACKED Asia Starcraft League, racking up an amazing hitlist of Yoyo, F91, MacSed, Sen, and finishing off his dominant mega-run of the ages by going 3-2 against BboongBbooong. I seem to recall a semifinal or five but maybe I'm wrong Maru's a good player, and nobody is saying otherwise. But aside from his miracle run, he's not racking up any huge achievements, and in the context of the whole of 2013, he hasn't really shown himself to be a super dominant player that's leagues ahead of Flash, as many here seem to be painting the portrait as.
yeahhh you hold pretty delusional beliefs too
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On December 24 2013 22:59 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2013 22:55 LightSpectra wrote:On December 24 2013 22:52 opterown wrote:On December 24 2013 22:49 LightSpectra wrote:On December 24 2013 22:43 Acrofales wrote:
Korea only had groups of death. Its your inherent bias that says Flash was put in hard groups while Maru got easy groups. There were NO easy groups in Korea. Right. Because Flash-Bogus-Life-PartinG is totally comparable to Maru-Sleep-Bbyong-Dream. Now, Maru and Flash were in the same group once, and Maru came out on top 2-1. That day, he played better than Flash. And that was a group of death. But that was pretty much the best thing Maru's ever done in his entire career, so it's not exactly fair to compare literally every season Flash plays in WCS to Maru's miracle run. Miracle run? people are still calling Maru's achievements miracle runs? haha So we can arbitrary disregard every time when Flash 4-0s his group or has a dozen allkills in Proleague, but Maru, who has won exactly 1 (one) tournament ever, didn't have a miracle run? k. Addendum: sorry, Maru did win another tournament. In February, he won the SUPER STACKED Asia Starcraft League, racking up an amazing hitlist of Yoyo, F91, MacSed, Sen, and finishing off his dominant mega-run of the ages by going 3-2 against BboongBbooong. So Maru's win was a miracle run BUT Flash's MLG run is proof of his ability. Right.
That was just to counter the ridiculous claim that Flash was never good at "any part of HotS". I think the real proof of his skill is his Proleague performance. He hasn't had a particular hit in individual leagues, but literally nobody can name a single player that's had overall harder groups than he has, except maybe PartinG.
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On December 24 2013 23:00 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2013 22:59 Epamynondas wrote:
Okay so Flash sucks, but what if he joined Prime? wat
Sssh, i'm trying to get opertown to switch sides on this argument. But don't tell anyone.
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On December 24 2013 22:54 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2013 22:52 Xoronius wrote:On December 24 2013 22:45 opterown wrote:haha that BW history, highly relevant On December 24 2013 22:44 Xoronius wrote:On December 24 2013 22:38 Grumbels wrote:On December 24 2013 22:25 opterown wrote:^ ah, but that's not what you have been saying, you started this by saying that flash is outright better than maru, we're here to show you how delusional that perception is. Maru does well for three months after three years of middling performances and people think he's better than Flash? I'm just saying that you shouldn't overrate Maru and sOs based on recent performances I'd easily bet for Flash to do better this season than Maru. you don't write off Flash after one slump and that he is considerably more talented than Maru i think flash may do better than maru in PL, but flash is not better than maru, nor is he guaranteed to do better as you've been saying. being a better player does not guarantee you a better record in PL. plus you follow up with this ridiculous question lol Why does Flash have so many anti-fans? I believe that Flash is the fundamentally better player, that doesn't mean he is always going to have better form than Maru. What did I say that was inconsistent? Maru's play improved, and he did better (and played better) than Flash for a period of a few months, although some of that is because he had more chances to show his skill, however it's highly questionable whether he can maintain peak form and I also believe that if Flash returns to peak ability he will be better than Maru and that this will be evidenced by him doing better in PL than Maru. And Flash having anti-fans is obvious when you look at many posts in this thread. If you have the time to go through my post history to check for quotes then surely you can check for anti-Flash comments in this thread. If 99% of the posts say, that Maru>Flash and 1% say Flash>Maru, than 99% of the forum users are Flash anti-fans. There is no way, that the 1% are Flash fanboys, right? There is no anti-fanboyism here, we are just defending the obvious truth. If opterown and Zealously, Startale and Prime are standing united against your opinion, that is a high indicator, that your opinion is just irrational. i actually don't dislike zealously fyi, we're good mates, just sometimes his fandom can get irritating (although he'll say the same of me lol) I did´nt want to imply you disliking Zealously at all, sorry if that came over wrong. I was just saying, that your fandom very rarely came to the same conclusion, so if you two agree, it is probably about something rational. eh we probably agree more often than not except st vs. prime haha ;p
Pssht, your ruining my point, just play along.
On December 24 2013 22:55 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2013 22:52 opterown wrote:On December 24 2013 22:49 LightSpectra wrote:On December 24 2013 22:43 Acrofales wrote:
Korea only had groups of death. Its your inherent bias that says Flash was put in hard groups while Maru got easy groups. There were NO easy groups in Korea. Right. Because Flash-Bogus-Life-PartinG is totally comparable to Maru-Sleep-Bbyong-Dream. Now, Maru and Flash were in the same group once, and Maru came out on top 2-1. That day, he played better than Flash. And that was a group of death. But that was pretty much the best thing Maru's ever done in his entire career, so it's not exactly fair to compare literally every season Flash plays in WCS to Maru's miracle run. Miracle run? people are still calling Maru's achievements miracle runs? haha So we can arbitrary disregard every time when Flash 4-0s his group or has a dozen allkills in Proleague, but Maru, who has won exactly 1 (one) tournament ever, didn't have a miracle run? k. Addendum: sorry, Maru did win another tournament. In February, he won the SUPER STACKED Asia Starcraft League, racking up an amazing hitlist of Yoyo, F91, MacSed, Sen, and finishing off his dominant mega-run of the ages by going 3-2 against BboongBbooong.
His "dozen" all-kills are exactly 2. And 4-0ing your group is not the same as winning your tournament, otherwise, I would have to go count Marus 4-0s as well and I am to lazy for that. And mentioning Maru´s "weak" victory at Asia Starcraft League, when Flash lost to every other korean attending Asian indoor games as well as a taiwanese player, is not that good of a point either.
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Ok let's bet, i bet that maru will have a better record in proleague than flash at the end of the season + better individual results aswell.
We could bet about a 2 months signature or something.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50604 Posts
On December 24 2013 23:03 Epamynondas wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2013 23:00 BLinD-RawR wrote:On December 24 2013 22:59 Epamynondas wrote:
Okay so Flash sucks, but what if he joined Prime? wat Sssh, i'm trying to get opertown to switch sides on this argument. But don't tell anyone.
ITS A DUMB ARGUMENT!
no really, it is, because the bottom line is SC2 community values Individual league performances to teamleague performances and flash while being very solid lacks a title while maru at least has one.
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On December 24 2013 23:01 opterown wrote:
exactly how many all-kills does flash have in SC2?
2 all-kills, one of EG-TL, another of CJ compared to Maru's 1 all-kill, a 6-0 of StarTale -> hardly something you split either way.
exactly how many 4-0's does flash have in SC2?
1
haha this guy. you should check stats before spouting stuff off.
Oops, he only went 4-0 once. Confused the memory of when he went 4-1 in the Ro32 in Season 3, and 2-0 (when they were Bo1) in OSL. So he crushed three groups, and proceeded to be placed in the hardest group in the Ro16 every time. I'm not saying any of those players that beat him were worse by any means, that's just the reason why he's a Ro16 hero this year.
Really, that's not any indication at all of his skill. Going 44-21 in Proleague is. By comparison, Bogus when he was the strongest he's ever been in his career went 43-20, Rain went 36-22, and sOs went 32-15. It's especially striking because Bogus, Rain, and sOs were all strong players on a really strong team, whereas Flash was the target of every sniper -- Zest and Stats were never really seen as big as threats as he was.
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Flash may not be the best player , but he will still probably get the most win award or be close for it just , because of his experience and hard work . It would be a big shocker if he is out of top 3 or 5 in Proleague . He has been there from like what ever since he joined Proleague ? Maru could probably get top 10 .
Guys here are mistaken the format of the leagues , one is a 2-3 day tournament the other is an year long , there is a difference .
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Screw you guys, you killed Grumbels. ..for two weeks
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So from what I can tell from the thread, this "Proleague" thing is a Flash vs Maru showmatch?
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On December 24 2013 23:13 DavoS wrote:
So from what I can tell from the thread, this "Proleague" thing is a Flash vs Maru showmatch?
Sora4MVP
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On December 24 2013 23:12 AlternativeEgo wrote:
Screw you guys, you killed Grumbels. ..for two weeks
Damn it, now I feel bad. Still taking it as a victory, though.
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EPT
