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On December 24 2013 20:13 Veroleg wrote:
in what way is thinking maru being better than flash not delusional?
I wrote a post about that on page 15. Grumbels did´nt respond to it, probably because he could´nt, without admitting, that Maru is, in fact better than Flash.
Short summary: Maru made 5 WCS/GSL semi-fianls in the last 6 months, Flash was´nt able to make a single WCS/GSL quarterfinal in his entire career. Flash attendet more international tournaments than Maru in this period, but each time he did, he got eliminated in the groupstages by DRG/Curious/YugiOh/DIMAGA/MMA.
I can understand fanboyism to a certain extend, I am a GoOdy fanboy myself, but even I am not publicly stating, that he would be better than Maru, because that is simply not true.
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That is weirdly really accurate BR lol.
But stats doesn't concern me more than Zest... he's still too .. how to put this right. Inconsistent would be little general but i have nothing else
I'm always concerned that Zest / Wookie, or even sometime Stats because of all of his name changes
On December 24 2013 21:54 Xoronius wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2013 20:13 Veroleg wrote:
in what way is thinking maru being better than flash not delusional? I wrote a post about that on page 15. Grumbels did´nt respond to it, probably because he could´nt, without admitting, that Maru is, in fact better than Flash. Short summary: Maru made 5 WCS/GSL semi-fianls in the last 6 months, Flash was´nt able to make a single WCS/GSL quarterfinal in his entire career. Flash attendet more international tournaments than Maru in this period, but each time he did, he got eliminated in the groupstages by DRG/Curious/YugiOh/DIMAGA/MMA. I can understand fanboyism to a certain extend, I am a GoOdy fanboy myself, but even I am not publicly stating, that he would be better than Maru, because that is simply not true.
No no no you are doing it wrong. It's a Hype thread (well... kind of since we don't have a PL thread yet). You have to say that X is better than X.
(Also Parting/Innovation/Life is kind of a hard group to pass...)
Also mister fanboy, everybody should love the SupplyBlock terran 
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I do. I am just not delusional enough to say, he would objectively better than Maru. I´m still cheering for him against Maru though.
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On December 24 2013 22:01 Xoronius wrote:
I do. I am just not delusional enough to say, he would objectively better than Maru. I´m still cheering for him against Maru though.
As you should good sir.
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On December 24 2013 21:54 Xoronius wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2013 20:13 Veroleg wrote:
in what way is thinking maru being better than flash not delusional? I wrote a post about that on page 15. Grumbels did´nt respond to it, probably because he could´nt, without admitting, that Maru is, in fact better than Flash. Short summary: Maru made 5 WCS/GSL semi-fianls in the last 6 months, Flash was´nt able to make a single WCS/GSL quarterfinal in his entire career. Flash attendet more international tournaments than Maru in this period, but each time he did, he got eliminated in the groupstages by DRG/Curious/YugiOh/DIMAGA/MMA. I can understand fanboyism to a certain extend, I am a GoOdy fanboy myself, but even I am not publicly stating, that he would be better than Maru, because that is simply not true.
Realistically he only did better than Flash in two tournaments. One of them was by margin of a Bo3, another was during a slump by Flash. So was the IEM where Flash did terribly. Maru has been mediocre for his entire career except for recently. And his very recent results aren't even that good, with losses to Jaedong, Soulkey, hero, Dark. It's just that he qualified for the season finals, so he was given more chances to play and to qualify for blizzcon etc.
Do you also think that Jaedong is better than all other zerg players by virtue of his foreign tournament successes? If you have the opportunity to play a lot of games you are going to accrue more results.
If Flash can recover his form (and there is no reason why he shouldn't) then there is no reason for him to do worse in proleague than Maru.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
ahh, there goes little mr delusional again
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On December 24 2013 22:10 opterown wrote:
ahh, there goes little mr delusional again
If you didn't have a star you would have been warned/banned several insults ago.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
actually, i wouldn't have lol, even if i wasn't staff and couldn't be reported.
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On December 24 2013 22:06 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2013 21:54 Xoronius wrote:On December 24 2013 20:13 Veroleg wrote:
in what way is thinking maru being better than flash not delusional? I wrote a post about that on page 15. Grumbels did´nt respond to it, probably because he could´nt, without admitting, that Maru is, in fact better than Flash. Short summary: Maru made 5 WCS/GSL semi-fianls in the last 6 months, Flash was´nt able to make a single WCS/GSL quarterfinal in his entire career. Flash attendet more international tournaments than Maru in this period, but each time he did, he got eliminated in the groupstages by DRG/Curious/YugiOh/DIMAGA/MMA. I can understand fanboyism to a certain extend, I am a GoOdy fanboy myself, but even I am not publicly stating, that he would be better than Maru, because that is simply not true. Realistically he only did better than Flash in two tournaments. One of them was by margin of a Bo3, another was during a slump by Flash. So was the IEM where Flash did terribly. Maru has been mediocre for his entire career except for recently. And his very recent results aren't even that good, with losses to Jaedong, Soulkey, hero, Dark. It's just that he qualified for the season finals, so he was given more chances to play and to qualify for blizzcon etc. Do you also think that Jaedong is better than all other zerg players by virtue of his foreign tournament successes? If you have the opportunity to play a lot of games you are going to accrue more results. If Flash can recover his form (and there is no reason why he shouldn't) then there is no reason for him to do worse in proleague than Maru.
He made it to the season finals -> he is clearly better than Flash.
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Puzzle and first missing. Thats a hard hit
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On December 24 2013 22:15 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2013 22:06 Grumbels wrote:On December 24 2013 21:54 Xoronius wrote:On December 24 2013 20:13 Veroleg wrote:
in what way is thinking maru being better than flash not delusional? I wrote a post about that on page 15. Grumbels did´nt respond to it, probably because he could´nt, without admitting, that Maru is, in fact better than Flash. Short summary: Maru made 5 WCS/GSL semi-fianls in the last 6 months, Flash was´nt able to make a single WCS/GSL quarterfinal in his entire career. Flash attendet more international tournaments than Maru in this period, but each time he did, he got eliminated in the groupstages by DRG/Curious/YugiOh/DIMAGA/MMA. I can understand fanboyism to a certain extend, I am a GoOdy fanboy myself, but even I am not publicly stating, that he would be better than Maru, because that is simply not true. Realistically he only did better than Flash in two tournaments. One of them was by margin of a Bo3, another was during a slump by Flash. So was the IEM where Flash did terribly. Maru has been mediocre for his entire career except for recently. And his very recent results aren't even that good, with losses to Jaedong, Soulkey, hero, Dark. It's just that he qualified for the season finals, so he was given more chances to play and to qualify for blizzcon etc. Do you also think that Jaedong is better than all other zerg players by virtue of his foreign tournament successes? If you have the opportunity to play a lot of games you are going to accrue more results. If Flash can recover his form (and there is no reason why he shouldn't) then there is no reason for him to do worse in proleague than Maru. He made it to the season finals -> he is clearly better than Flash.
Yes, he was during the last half year, but why is that a guarantee for him doing better in proleague? Flash is the more talented player and will do better given the chance to recover from his slump. And proleague caters to his strengths anyway.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
^ ah, but that's not what you have been saying, you started this by saying that flash is outright better than maru, we're here to show you how delusional that perception is.
Maru does well for three months after three years of middling performances and people think he's better than Flash?
I'm just saying that you shouldn't overrate Maru and sOs based on recent performances
I'd easily bet for Flash to do better this season than Maru.
you don't write off Flash after one slump and that he is considerably more talented than Maru
i think flash may do better than maru in PL, but flash is not better than maru, nor is he guaranteed to do better as you've been saying. being a better player does not guarantee you a better record in PL.
plus you follow up with this ridiculous question lol
Why does Flash have so many anti-fans?
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On December 24 2013 22:06 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2013 21:54 Xoronius wrote:On December 24 2013 20:13 Veroleg wrote:
in what way is thinking maru being better than flash not delusional? I wrote a post about that on page 15. Grumbels did´nt respond to it, probably because he could´nt, without admitting, that Maru is, in fact better than Flash. Short summary: Maru made 5 WCS/GSL semi-fianls in the last 6 months, Flash was´nt able to make a single WCS/GSL quarterfinal in his entire career. Flash attendet more international tournaments than Maru in this period, but each time he did, he got eliminated in the groupstages by DRG/Curious/YugiOh/DIMAGA/MMA. I can understand fanboyism to a certain extend, I am a GoOdy fanboy myself, but even I am not publicly stating, that he would be better than Maru, because that is simply not true. Realistically he only did better than Flash in two tournaments. One of them was by margin of a Bo3, another was during a slump by Flash. So was the IEM where Flash did terribly. Maru has been mediocre for his entire career except for recently. And his very recent results aren't even that good, with losses to Jaedong, Soulkey, hero, Dark. It's just that he qualified for the season finals, so he was given more chances to play and to qualify for blizzcon etc. Do you also think that Jaedong is better than all other zerg players by virtue of his foreign tournament successes? If you have the opportunity to play a lot of games you are going to accrue more results. If Flash can recover his form (and there is no reason why he shouldn't) then there is no reason for him to do worse in proleague than Maru.
By the margin of a bo3? I´m not sure, which tournament you mean (WCS Kor season 2 or 3) but Maru made it at least 2 rounds further than Flash in both of them. And Flash was never in a slump, he constantly finished at the same place in all three seasons. You say Flash did terribly at IEM, but guess what, doing terribly does´nt make you better than people who don´t. "Mediocre for his entire career"? Yes, because he was a kid. Most good chess players start playing the game, when they are 6 or something like that. Would you say, someone, who reaches his GM-title with an age of 20 had "14 years of mediocre results"? Probably not. He "just qualified for the season finals"? Yes, he qualified because he did BETTER. And I adressed the "more chances to play" earlier, it simply is´nt true, as Flash did travel to foreign tournaments, while Maru did´nt.
Personally I don´t think Jaedong is better than all other zergs out there (a top zerg, but not the top zerg), but ,other than Maru, Jaedongs successes were´nt in the hardest tournament in the world.
Which former form are you talking about? The season 3 ro16 form? The season 2 ro16 form? The season 1 ro16 form? It´s not that Flash ever got as high as Maru currently is in this game.
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On December 24 2013 22:20 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2013 22:15 sharkie wrote:On December 24 2013 22:06 Grumbels wrote:On December 24 2013 21:54 Xoronius wrote:On December 24 2013 20:13 Veroleg wrote:
in what way is thinking maru being better than flash not delusional? I wrote a post about that on page 15. Grumbels did´nt respond to it, probably because he could´nt, without admitting, that Maru is, in fact better than Flash. Short summary: Maru made 5 WCS/GSL semi-fianls in the last 6 months, Flash was´nt able to make a single WCS/GSL quarterfinal in his entire career. Flash attendet more international tournaments than Maru in this period, but each time he did, he got eliminated in the groupstages by DRG/Curious/YugiOh/DIMAGA/MMA. I can understand fanboyism to a certain extend, I am a GoOdy fanboy myself, but even I am not publicly stating, that he would be better than Maru, because that is simply not true. Realistically he only did better than Flash in two tournaments. One of them was by margin of a Bo3, another was during a slump by Flash. So was the IEM where Flash did terribly. Maru has been mediocre for his entire career except for recently. And his very recent results aren't even that good, with losses to Jaedong, Soulkey, hero, Dark. It's just that he qualified for the season finals, so he was given more chances to play and to qualify for blizzcon etc. Do you also think that Jaedong is better than all other zerg players by virtue of his foreign tournament successes? If you have the opportunity to play a lot of games you are going to accrue more results. If Flash can recover his form (and there is no reason why he shouldn't) then there is no reason for him to do worse in proleague than Maru. He made it to the season finals -> he is clearly better than Flash. Yes, he was during the last half year, but why is that a guarantee for him doing better in proleague? Flash is the more talented player and will do better given the chance to recover from his slump. And proleague caters to his strengths anyway.
I doubt many will say Maru will do better than Flash in PROLEAGUE. Proleague is Flash's forte. I am sure he will be the best terran again.
But Maru will almost definitely have a better season than Flash (in individual leagues). And I dont think you can say Flash is more talented than Maru (Maru is young).
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On December 24 2013 22:20 Grumbels wrote:
Yes, he was during the last half year, but why is that a guarantee for him doing better in proleague? Flash is the more talented player and will do better given the chance to recover from his slump. And proleague caters to his strengths anyway.
Flash being the more talented player is an assumption/opinion (and a wrong one as well in my eyes.)
Flash being in a slump is an assumption/opinion as well.
In this whole discussion you are leaning on assumptions/opinions and do´nt bring any evidence.
Neglect me in the following points:
The swedish protoss player MilkEA is the best player in the world. He is generally more talented than every single human being on this planet at starcraft. He is just in a slump since 2012-10-22, after he was already in a slump until 2012-10-20, so the only day he was´nt in a slump is 2012-10-21, where he won EU Zotac cup with a 3-0 in the finals. Whichever argument you may bring, I can say, that he is the more talented play, but is just currently in a slump. Every evidence you bring is just recently. Sounds wrong, does´nt it? But that is exactly the way you are discussing this right now.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On December 24 2013 22:06 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2013 21:54 Xoronius wrote:On December 24 2013 20:13 Veroleg wrote:
in what way is thinking maru being better than flash not delusional? I wrote a post about that on page 15. Grumbels did´nt respond to it, probably because he could´nt, without admitting, that Maru is, in fact better than Flash. Short summary: Maru made 5 WCS/GSL semi-fianls in the last 6 months, Flash was´nt able to make a single WCS/GSL quarterfinal in his entire career. Flash attendet more international tournaments than Maru in this period, but each time he did, he got eliminated in the groupstages by DRG/Curious/YugiOh/DIMAGA/MMA. I can understand fanboyism to a certain extend, I am a GoOdy fanboy myself, but even I am not publicly stating, that he would be better than Maru, because that is simply not true. Realistically he only did better than Flash in two tournaments. One of them was by margin of a Bo3, another was during a slump by Flash. So was the IEM where Flash did terribly. Maru has been mediocre for his entire career except for recently. And his very recent results aren't even that good, with losses to Jaedong, Soulkey, hero, Dark. It's just that he qualified for the season finals, so he was given more chances to play and to qualify for blizzcon etc. Do you also think that Jaedong is better than all other zerg players by virtue of his foreign tournament successes? If you have the opportunity to play a lot of games you are going to accrue more results. If Flash can recover his form (and there is no reason why he shouldn't) then there is no reason for him to do worse in proleague than Maru.
Which tournament did Flash win? Hell, could you point me to a premier besides that one MLG (which Maru to my memory did not attend) where Flash made the Ro8 and/or looked like a legit potential winner? Further, what has Flash shown in SC2 to make you think he is more talented than Maru at this game?
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On December 24 2013 22:25 opterown wrote:^ ah, but that's not what you have been saying, you started this by saying that flash is outright better than maru, we're here to show you how delusional that perception is. Show nested quote +Maru does well for three months after three years of middling performances and people think he's better than Flash? Show nested quote +I'm just saying that you shouldn't overrate Maru and sOs based on recent performances Show nested quote +you don't write off Flash after one slump and that he is considerably more talented than Maru i think flash may do better than maru in PL, but flash is not better than maru, nor is he guaranteed to do better as you've been saying. being a better player does not guarantee you a better record in PL. plus you follow up with this ridiculous question lol
I believe that Flash is the fundamentally better player, that doesn't mean he is always going to have better form than Maru. What did I say that was inconsistent? Maru's play improved, and he did better (and played better) than Flash for a period of a few months, although some of that is because he had more chances to show his skill, however it's highly questionable whether he can maintain peak form and I also believe that if Flash returns to peak ability he will be better than Maru and that this will be evidenced by him doing better in PL than Maru.
And Flash having anti-fans is obvious when you look at many posts in this thread. If you have the time to go through my post history to check for quotes then surely you can check for anti-Flash comments in this thread.
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lol @ Flash doubters.
Anybody else find it amusing that Prime's trouble is that they have too many B-teamers and not enough aces, and so they randomly pick up 3 more B-teamers?
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
your belief that flash is the fundamentally better player is the one that's delusional, that's what, and the clear amount of opposition against that belief in this thread should suggest that to you. of course, if you do end up right, you're welcome to crow about it and be insufferable all you want, but for now, that's everyone else's job.
On December 24 2013 22:39 LightSpectra wrote:
Anybody else find it amusing that Prime's trouble is that they have too many B-teamers and not enough aces, and so they randomly pick up 3 more B-teamers?
what else are you supposed to do with no money
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
Being a fundamentally better player, one would think, should at least have led to comparable performances at any given point in HotS. This hasn't been the case at all, despite Flash having had 9 months and foreign tournaments at his disposal.
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EPT
