EPTWesternWolves shutting down - Page 2
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StatixEx
United Kingdom779 Posts
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Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
On December 21 2013 01:42 Martijn wrote: We were actually in a position where we could continue the team without an SC2 squad, or close the team as a whole. It’s no secret that WW invested a lot in StarCaft 2. We already had world top fighting game players, Fifa players and held a promising CSGO roster among others. But with my background, my personal commitment was always going to be focused on StarCraft 2. I think we can be quite proud of what we’we've accomplished. We look back at having held an IEM title, and now qualifying for ATC establishing ourselves as a top 4 foreigner team. Unfortunately our formula is one that simply can’t last in the current scene. We've always focused on finding and training new talent. For example Stings pickup was followed by an IEM win and Check has been tearing up qualifiers very close to a breakthrough moment. That means we deal with a lot of relatively new players. These new talents aren't going to have a stack of WCS points. This was never too big of a problem, WW focused primarily on IEM/DH which we could send players to regardless. We’d like to take a moment to thank these 2 organizations for their role in esports. Without them our journey in esports would not have been possible. The climate is changing however. You can no longer send players to IEM events if they don’t have sufficient WCS points and DH Winter (arguably the main focus of the team) no longer has an open tournament. This means that we have to count on our players to win qualifiers to attend events. This isn't a bad thing; it’s just how the new system works. Unfortunately qualifiers are often finicky. If you look at the names Check beat in stage 1 of the IEM NY qualifiers, you’d think it’s an amazing showing, only to be confronted with Innovation right off the bat in stage 2. If players do qualify, often the qualifiers are too close to events to be able to budget for them, or the events pay for travel at which point a team contributes very little to begin with. Traditionally, the most talented players got support from teams, now a team is better off picking up someone that already has WCS points. We got caught in a position where we had talented players that we couldn't send to events. We were paying them but we couldn't’t show a return to our sponsors. We tried to make up for this by providing a lot more content for sponsors, but that just delayed the inevitable and a team like ours can’t function within the WCS system. We didn't believe in the WCS system and we can’t sell to our sponsors something we don’t believe in. So the decision was made to either continue on without a StarCraft 2 squad or close up shop. Arguably, we could have taken the money we were offered and survived. To be frank, our remaining players (meaning those in other games) are in such a good position within their respective scenes that they’ll be fine even without us. I spent much more time dealing with SC2 than I did with all other teams combined. Does that answer your question? I understand your decision, though I'm really sad about how you feel. Thank you for all the great moments WW has given us over the past two years. | ||
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ACrow
Germany6583 Posts
 I always liked your team (love the logo), and I actually think that the departure of a midsized foreign team like WW is more hurtful than that of an old Kespa team in a crowded Korean market, like Soul. Thank you for the explanation, Martijn, I hope some tournaments revert back to open brackets, with the DH change and MLG's demise we really need major tournaments with open brackets. Thank you so much for the ~2 years you gave us, best of luck to the players! | ||
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Lambertus
South Africa980 Posts
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stefantheterran
Austria61 Posts
I wonder how many more will announce these before end of January? | ||
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Maegi
Finland174 Posts
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c0ldfusion
United States8293 Posts
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RayBeans
Germany331 Posts
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Sacrilege
United States199 Posts
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
I liked that team | ||
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renaissanceMAN
United States1840 Posts
I hate seeing organizations shutter. Good look to the former players! | ||
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Bowzar
Sweden741 Posts
On December 21 2013 01:59 stefantheterran wrote: oh damn, another team bites the dust I wonder how many more will announce these before end of January?I think fOu is next. Players leaving is usually a sign of teams shutting down and Leenock is slumping. | ||
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Lonyo
United Kingdom3884 Posts
On December 21 2013 01:42 Martijn wrote: We were actually in a position where we could continue the team without an SC2 squad, or close the team as a whole. It’s no secret that WW invested a lot in StarCaft 2. We already had world top fighting game players, Fifa players and held a promising CSGO roster among others. But with my background, my personal commitment was always going to be focused on StarCraft 2. I think we can be quite proud of what we've accomplished. We look back at having held an IEM title, and now qualifying for ATC establishing ourselves as a top 4 foreigner team. Unfortunately our formula is one that simply can’t last in the current scene. We've always focused on finding and training new talent. For example Stings pickup was followed by an IEM win and Check has been tearing up qualifiers very close to a breakthrough moment. That means we deal with a lot of relatively new players. These new talents aren't going to have a stack of WCS points. This was never too big of a problem, WW focused primarily on IEM/DH which we could send players to regardless. We’d like to take a moment to thank these 2 organizations for their role in esports. Without them our journey in esports would not have been possible. The climate is changing however. You can no longer send players to IEM events if they don’t have sufficient WCS points and DH Winter (arguably the main focus of the team) no longer has an open tournament. This means that we have to count on our players to win qualifiers to attend events. This isn't a bad thing; it’s just how the new system works. Unfortunately qualifiers are often finicky. If you look at the names Check beat in stage 1 of the IEM NY qualifiers, you’d think it’s an amazing showing, only to be confronted with Innovation right off the bat in stage 2. If players do qualify, often the qualifiers are too close to events to be able to budget for them, or the events pay for travel at which point a team contributes very little to begin with. Traditionally, the most talented players got support from teams, now a team is better off picking up someone that already has WCS points. We got caught in a position where we had talented players that we couldn't send to events. We were paying them but we couldn't show a return to our sponsors. We tried to make up for this by providing a lot more content for sponsors, but that just delayed the inevitable and a team like ours can’t function within the WCS system. We didn't believe in the WCS system and we can’t sell to our sponsors something we don’t believe in. So the decision was made to either continue on without a StarCraft 2 squad or close up shop. Arguably, we could have taken the money we were offered and survived. To be frank, our remaining players (meaning those in other games) are in such a good position within their respective scenes that they’ll be fine even without us. I spent much more time dealing with SC2 than I did with all other teams combined. Does that answer your question? It's probably a little late, and I'm sure you considered it, but I will ask anyway. Did you consider selling/transferring the non-SC2 team to another organisation/other management, and just closing the SC2 division to minimise disruption to the rest of the players, or was it a case that it wasn't feasible to do so? It's nice (and also not nice) that you decided to close the whole team because SC2 was unsustainable, as it shows where your heart truely was, but I guess the other teams, even though they were successful, would probably feel hard done by in that they suffer because the SC2 team couldn't manage to do enough due to the ecosystem. I guess I'm just hoping that there's no ill-will from the other people/teams/game communities due to your decision being taken only over SC2. I would guess finding a stable for a whole group of teams across a variety of games would be very challenging anyway, if even possible at all without a lot of negotiation. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19345 Posts
On December 21 2013 01:49 Zealously wrote: I understand your decision, though I'm really sad about how you feel. Thank you for all the great moments WW has given us over the past two years. One major thing that made me sad was the lack of open tournaments. MLG contributed hugely in the first two years by having the open brackets and 3 days of non-stop SC2. I'm really upset we got away from having those kind of events. Those events were everything I looked forward to in SC2. Now I just watch the finals of tournaments if I have time. Either way, good luck to the teammates on WW. | ||
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partydude89
1850 Posts
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Liman
Serbia681 Posts
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Destructicon
4713 Posts
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
. I hope the players find a new home, especially check, he is damn good. Thanks for everything and good luck to everybody in the future! | ||
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Martijn
Netherlands1219 Posts
On December 21 2013 02:32 Lonyo wrote: It's probably a little late, and I'm sure you considered it, but I will ask anyway. Did you consider selling/transferring the non-SC2 team to another organisation/other management, and just closing the SC2 division to minimise disruption to the rest of the players, or was it a case that it wasn't feasible to do so? It's nice (and also not nice) that you decided to close the whole team because SC2 was unsustainable, as it shows where your heart truely was, but I guess the other teams, even though they were successful, would probably feel hard done by in that they suffer because the SC2 team couldn't manage to do enough due to the ecosystem. I guess I'm just hoping that there's no ill-will from the other people/teams/game communities due to your decision being taken only over SC2. I would guess finding a stable for a whole group of teams across a variety of games would be very challenging anyway, if even possible at all without a lot of negotiation. Yeah we did consider that option. The Fifa and FGC players have a lot of opportunities. Their scenes are stable and they're at the respective tops of their scenes, so we're confident they'll make it out quite well. In all honesty, the Fifa and FGC players didn't need us nearly as much. We're ensuring they're cared for as much as we can. We're not just leaving them out in the cold of course. | ||
Shellshock
United States97276 Posts
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