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Earlier today I had to break the news to the players which was one of the hardest things I've had to do in a long time. Now you guys are up.
tldr is, we're shutting the team down at the end of the year.
webpage statement
It is with a heavy heart that we are officially announcing that Western Wolves will be closing its doors on December 31st 2013.
Western Wolves emerged as an idea in mid-2011, after about half a year of planning, contacting and pitching later, Western Wolves was officially announced on January 4th 2012. Over the past two years we are extremely proud of what our teams and players have achieved under the wings of Western Wolves. Some have moved on since then and are now playing for the best teams in eSports. We have always tried to create a home for up and coming talent by supporting them in the best possible environment with all means at our disposal.
Thank you to all our current and former staff members: Birger De Geyter, Martijn Bloemheuvel, Sander Van Der Haegen, Michiel De Palmeneire, Reece Fowler, Yuna, Alexander Bratyshkin, John Perd, Connor Magill, David Barker, Kevin Mikkelsen, Mike Howard, Samantha Whale, Sebastian Weishaupt, Thomas Mihailov, Fabien Turgis, Kevin Eun
Last but not least, thank you very much to our faithful sponsors who helped us make Western Wolves possible during these two years: Mad Catz, without them Western Wolves wouldn’t have been, Tritton, Sapphire and AMD for their continuous support.
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Blahh that's sad. 
Hopefully the players (especially Check) find new teams.
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thank you for all the great games you gave us and gl to everyone!
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What about a reason? :/
I dont like news with important information missing.
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On December 21 2013 01:23 MasterReY wrote:
What about a reason? :/
I dont like news with important information missing.
It's in the news article.
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On December 21 2013 01:23 MasterReY wrote:
What about a reason? :/
I dont like news with important information missing.
If there's a lot of questions remaining, I'll fill them in where I can. Of course I won't violate anyone's confidentiality, but I'm confident I can satisfy any questions you lot will have mostly.
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Oh fuck.
I hope Check will find a team soon. :/
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double threads.
@Jayp
I don't see where it says specifically why they are closing. I can assume it's because they were just not coming out with enough money to keep it going, though.
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RIP WW, they had that great run in ATC
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Sorry to hear.
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I hope Check can find a new team . At first I didn't know what to think of you guys after the Spades incident, but you guys really picked it up later and became a team I was happy to watch. Congratulations on all your achievements and it's sad to hear you're closing your doors.
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what the... so sad
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On December 21 2013 01:32 Martijn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2013 01:23 MasterReY wrote:
What about a reason? :/
I dont like news with important information missing. If there's a lot of questions remaining, I'll fill them in where I can. Of course I won't violate anyone's confidentiality, but I'm confident I can satisfy any questions you lot will have mostly.
I agree, there is nothing about why they are closing. Since they are closing every single one of their esports teams, we can only assume that it is financial issues
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On December 21 2013 01:24 Jayp wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2013 01:23 MasterReY wrote:
What about a reason? :/
I dont like news with important information missing. It's in the news article.
Tell me then, couldn't find it. I hate ppl like you, neither being able to read a freaking article nor being able to give an intelligent answer.
bye WW, sad to see ya go
User was warned for this post
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On December 21 2013 01:39 Smurfett3 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2013 01:32 Martijn wrote:On December 21 2013 01:23 MasterReY wrote:
What about a reason? :/
I dont like news with important information missing. If there's a lot of questions remaining, I'll fill them in where I can. Of course I won't violate anyone's confidentiality, but I'm confident I can satisfy any questions you lot will have mostly. I agree, there is nothing about why they are closing. Since they are closing every single one of their esports teams, we can only assume that it is financial issues
We were actually in a position where we could continue the team without an SC2 squad, or close the team as a whole.
It’s no secret that WW invested a lot in StarCaft 2. We already had world top fighting game players, Fifa players and held a promising CSGO roster among others. But with my background, my personal commitment was always going to be focused on StarCraft 2. I think we can be quite proud of what we've accomplished. We look back at having held an IEM title, and now qualifying for ATC establishing ourselves as a top 4 foreigner team.
Unfortunately our formula is one that simply can’t last in the current scene. We've always focused on finding and training new talent. For example Stings pickup was followed by an IEM win and Check has been tearing up qualifiers very close to a breakthrough moment. That means we deal with a lot of relatively new players. These new talents aren't going to have a stack of WCS points. This was never too big of a problem, WW focused primarily on IEM/DH which we could send players to regardless. We’d like to take a moment to thank these 2 organizations for their role in esports. Without them our journey in esports would not have been possible.
The climate is changing however. You can no longer send players to IEM events if they don’t have sufficient WCS points and DH Winter (arguably the main focus of the team) no longer has an open tournament. This means that we have to count on our players to win qualifiers to attend events. This isn't a bad thing; it’s just how the new system works. Unfortunately qualifiers are often finicky. If you look at the names Check beat in stage 1 of the IEM NY qualifiers, you’d think it’s an amazing showing, only to be confronted with Innovation right off the bat in stage 2. If players do qualify, often the qualifiers are too close to events to be able to budget for them, or the events pay for travel at which point a team contributes very little to begin with.
Traditionally, the most talented players got support from teams, now a team is better off picking up someone that already has WCS points. We got caught in a position where we had talented players that we couldn't send to events. We were paying them but we couldn't show a return to our sponsors. We tried to make up for this by providing a lot more content for sponsors, but that just delayed the inevitable and a team like ours can’t function within the WCS system.
We didn't believe in the WCS system and we can’t sell to our sponsors something we don’t believe in. So the decision was made to either continue on without a StarCraft 2 squad or close up shop. Arguably, we could have taken the money we were offered and survived. To be frank, our remaining players (meaning those in other games) are in such a good position within their respective scenes that they’ll be fine even without us. I spent much more time dealing with SC2 than I did with all other teams combined.
Does that answer your question?
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noooooo sting
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Man that sucks, but many players in various games were given the chance to compete so that's cool. Take care, cool guys of WW, and good luck to the players. Other sc2 teams better Check themselves.
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I hope ALBM and the others can find new teams.
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what is happening to all the sc2 teams this is sad news, i really liked this team
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On December 21 2013 01:42 Martijn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2013 01:39 Smurfett3 wrote:On December 21 2013 01:32 Martijn wrote:On December 21 2013 01:23 MasterReY wrote:
What about a reason? :/
I dont like news with important information missing. If there's a lot of questions remaining, I'll fill them in where I can. Of course I won't violate anyone's confidentiality, but I'm confident I can satisfy any questions you lot will have mostly. I agree, there is nothing about why they are closing. Since they are closing every single one of their esports teams, we can only assume that it is financial issues We were actually in a position where we could continue the team without an SC2 squad, or close the team as a whole. It’s no secret that WW invested a lot in StarCaft 2. We already had world top fighting game players, Fifa players and held a promising CSGO roster among others. But with my background, my personal commitment was always going to be focused on StarCraft 2. I think we can be quite proud of what we’we've accomplished. We look back at having held an IEM title, and now qualifying for ATC establishing ourselves as a top 4 foreigner team. Unfortunately our formula is one that simply can’t last in the current scene. We've always focused on finding and training new talent. For example Stings pickup was followed by an IEM win and Check has been tearing up qualifiers very close to a breakthrough moment. That means we deal with a lot of relatively new players. These new talents aren't going to have a stack of WCS points. This was never too big of a problem, WW focused primarily on IEM/DH which we could send players to regardless. We’d like to take a moment to thank these 2 organizations for their role in esports. Without them our journey in esports would not have been possible. The climate is changing however. You can no longer send players to IEM events if they don’t have sufficient WCS points and DH Winter (arguably the main focus of the team) no longer has an open tournament. This means that we have to count on our players to win qualifiers to attend events. This isn't a bad thing; it’s just how the new system works. Unfortunately qualifiers are often finicky. If you look at the names Check beat in stage 1 of the IEM NY qualifiers, you’d think it’s an amazing showing, only to be confronted with Innovation right off the bat in stage 2. If players do qualify, often the qualifiers are too close to events to be able to budget for them, or the events pay for travel at which point a team contributes very little to begin with. Traditionally, the most talented players got support from teams, now a team is better off picking up someone that already has WCS points. We got caught in a position where we had talented players that we couldn't send to events. We were paying them but we couldn't’t show a return to our sponsors. We tried to make up for this by providing a lot more content for sponsors, but that just delayed the inevitable and a team like ours can’t function within the WCS system. We didn't believe in the WCS system and we can’t sell to our sponsors something we don’t believe in. So the decision was made to either continue on without a StarCraft 2 squad or close up shop. Arguably, we could have taken the money we were offered and survived. To be frank, our remaining players (meaning those in other games) are in such a good position within their respective scenes that they’ll be fine even without us. I spent much more time dealing with SC2 than I did with all other teams combined. Does that answer your question?
I understand your decision, though I'm really sad about how you feel. Thank you for all the great moments WW has given us over the past two years.
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Oh that's so sad
I always liked your team (love the logo), and I actually think that the departure of a midsized foreign team like WW is more hurtful than that of an old Kespa team in a crowded Korean market, like Soul.
Thank you for the explanation, Martijn, I hope some tournaments revert back to open brackets, with the DH change and MLG's demise we really need major tournaments with open brackets.
Thank you so much for the ~2 years you gave us, best of luck to the players!
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Ah, thats sad, I always loved the team for feeling somehow "different" and unique. Thanks for the explanation. All the best in the future!
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oh damn, another team bites the dust I wonder how many more will announce these before end of January?
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RIP in peace. Hopefully check finds a good team
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I really hope Sting finds a team quickly! I've always enjoyed watching his play!
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
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God damn it
I hate seeing organizations shutter.
Good look to the former players!
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On December 21 2013 01:59 stefantheterran wrote:oh damn, another team bites the dust I wonder how many more will announce these before end of January?
I think fOu is next. Players leaving is usually a sign of teams shutting down and Leenock is slumping.
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On December 21 2013 01:42 Martijn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2013 01:39 Smurfett3 wrote:On December 21 2013 01:32 Martijn wrote:On December 21 2013 01:23 MasterReY wrote:
What about a reason? :/
I dont like news with important information missing. If there's a lot of questions remaining, I'll fill them in where I can. Of course I won't violate anyone's confidentiality, but I'm confident I can satisfy any questions you lot will have mostly. I agree, there is nothing about why they are closing. Since they are closing every single one of their esports teams, we can only assume that it is financial issues We were actually in a position where we could continue the team without an SC2 squad, or close the team as a whole. It’s no secret that WW invested a lot in StarCaft 2. We already had world top fighting game players, Fifa players and held a promising CSGO roster among others. But with my background, my personal commitment was always going to be focused on StarCraft 2. I think we can be quite proud of what we've accomplished. We look back at having held an IEM title, and now qualifying for ATC establishing ourselves as a top 4 foreigner team. Unfortunately our formula is one that simply can’t last in the current scene. We've always focused on finding and training new talent. For example Stings pickup was followed by an IEM win and Check has been tearing up qualifiers very close to a breakthrough moment. That means we deal with a lot of relatively new players. These new talents aren't going to have a stack of WCS points. This was never too big of a problem, WW focused primarily on IEM/DH which we could send players to regardless. We’d like to take a moment to thank these 2 organizations for their role in esports. Without them our journey in esports would not have been possible. The climate is changing however. You can no longer send players to IEM events if they don’t have sufficient WCS points and DH Winter (arguably the main focus of the team) no longer has an open tournament. This means that we have to count on our players to win qualifiers to attend events. This isn't a bad thing; it’s just how the new system works. Unfortunately qualifiers are often finicky. If you look at the names Check beat in stage 1 of the IEM NY qualifiers, you’d think it’s an amazing showing, only to be confronted with Innovation right off the bat in stage 2. If players do qualify, often the qualifiers are too close to events to be able to budget for them, or the events pay for travel at which point a team contributes very little to begin with. Traditionally, the most talented players got support from teams, now a team is better off picking up someone that already has WCS points. We got caught in a position where we had talented players that we couldn't send to events. We were paying them but we couldn't show a return to our sponsors. We tried to make up for this by providing a lot more content for sponsors, but that just delayed the inevitable and a team like ours can’t function within the WCS system. We didn't believe in the WCS system and we can’t sell to our sponsors something we don’t believe in. So the decision was made to either continue on without a StarCraft 2 squad or close up shop. Arguably, we could have taken the money we were offered and survived. To be frank, our remaining players (meaning those in other games) are in such a good position within their respective scenes that they’ll be fine even without us. I spent much more time dealing with SC2 than I did with all other teams combined. Does that answer your question?
It's probably a little late, and I'm sure you considered it, but I will ask anyway.
Did you consider selling/transferring the non-SC2 team to another organisation/other management, and just closing the SC2 division to minimise disruption to the rest of the players, or was it a case that it wasn't feasible to do so?
It's nice (and also not nice) that you decided to close the whole team because SC2 was unsustainable, as it shows where your heart truely was, but I guess the other teams, even though they were successful, would probably feel hard done by in that they suffer because the SC2 team couldn't manage to do enough due to the ecosystem.
I guess I'm just hoping that there's no ill-will from the other people/teams/game communities due to your decision being taken only over SC2. I would guess finding a stable for a whole group of teams across a variety of games would be very challenging anyway, if even possible at all without a lot of negotiation.
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Bisutopia19240 Posts
On December 21 2013 01:49 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2013 01:42 Martijn wrote:On December 21 2013 01:39 Smurfett3 wrote:On December 21 2013 01:32 Martijn wrote:On December 21 2013 01:23 MasterReY wrote:
What about a reason? :/
I dont like news with important information missing. If there's a lot of questions remaining, I'll fill them in where I can. Of course I won't violate anyone's confidentiality, but I'm confident I can satisfy any questions you lot will have mostly. I agree, there is nothing about why they are closing. Since they are closing every single one of their esports teams, we can only assume that it is financial issues We were actually in a position where we could continue the team without an SC2 squad, or close the team as a whole. It’s no secret that WW invested a lot in StarCaft 2. We already had world top fighting game players, Fifa players and held a promising CSGO roster among others. But with my background, my personal commitment was always going to be focused on StarCraft 2. I think we can be quite proud of what we’we've accomplished. We look back at having held an IEM title, and now qualifying for ATC establishing ourselves as a top 4 foreigner team. Unfortunately our formula is one that simply can’t last in the current scene. We've always focused on finding and training new talent. For example Stings pickup was followed by an IEM win and Check has been tearing up qualifiers very close to a breakthrough moment. That means we deal with a lot of relatively new players. These new talents aren't going to have a stack of WCS points. This was never too big of a problem, WW focused primarily on IEM/DH which we could send players to regardless. We’d like to take a moment to thank these 2 organizations for their role in esports. Without them our journey in esports would not have been possible. The climate is changing however. You can no longer send players to IEM events if they don’t have sufficient WCS points and DH Winter (arguably the main focus of the team) no longer has an open tournament. This means that we have to count on our players to win qualifiers to attend events. This isn't a bad thing; it’s just how the new system works. Unfortunately qualifiers are often finicky. If you look at the names Check beat in stage 1 of the IEM NY qualifiers, you’d think it’s an amazing showing, only to be confronted with Innovation right off the bat in stage 2. If players do qualify, often the qualifiers are too close to events to be able to budget for them, or the events pay for travel at which point a team contributes very little to begin with. Traditionally, the most talented players got support from teams, now a team is better off picking up someone that already has WCS points. We got caught in a position where we had talented players that we couldn't send to events. We were paying them but we couldn't’t show a return to our sponsors. We tried to make up for this by providing a lot more content for sponsors, but that just delayed the inevitable and a team like ours can’t function within the WCS system. We didn't believe in the WCS system and we can’t sell to our sponsors something we don’t believe in. So the decision was made to either continue on without a StarCraft 2 squad or close up shop. Arguably, we could have taken the money we were offered and survived. To be frank, our remaining players (meaning those in other games) are in such a good position within their respective scenes that they’ll be fine even without us. I spent much more time dealing with SC2 than I did with all other teams combined. Does that answer your question? I understand your decision, though I'm really sad about how you feel. Thank you for all the great moments WW has given us over the past two years.
One major thing that made me sad was the lack of open tournaments. MLG contributed hugely in the first two years by having the open brackets and 3 days of non-stop SC2. I'm really upset we got away from having those kind of events. Those events were everything I looked forward to in SC2. Now I just watch the finals of tournaments if I have time.
Either way, good luck to the teammates on WW.
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i was really excited about you guys as a team. I felt like you had a solid terran(sting), protoss(daisy), and zerg(check) which lead to you guys being a very well rounded team. i'm very sad to see you guys go, and hope that the players get picked up soon. sad that it had to end.
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Well that sucks.
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4713 Posts
Damn, sad news, it always hurts to lose a team. Hopefully all the players can find a new good home.
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Damn that''s sad . I hope the players find a new home, especially check, he is damn good. Thanks for everything and good luck to everybody in the future!
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On December 21 2013 02:32 Lonyo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2013 01:42 Martijn wrote:On December 21 2013 01:39 Smurfett3 wrote:On December 21 2013 01:32 Martijn wrote:On December 21 2013 01:23 MasterReY wrote:
What about a reason? :/
I dont like news with important information missing. If there's a lot of questions remaining, I'll fill them in where I can. Of course I won't violate anyone's confidentiality, but I'm confident I can satisfy any questions you lot will have mostly. I agree, there is nothing about why they are closing. Since they are closing every single one of their esports teams, we can only assume that it is financial issues We were actually in a position where we could continue the team without an SC2 squad, or close the team as a whole. It’s no secret that WW invested a lot in StarCaft 2. We already had world top fighting game players, Fifa players and held a promising CSGO roster among others. But with my background, my personal commitment was always going to be focused on StarCraft 2. I think we can be quite proud of what we've accomplished. We look back at having held an IEM title, and now qualifying for ATC establishing ourselves as a top 4 foreigner team. Unfortunately our formula is one that simply can’t last in the current scene. We've always focused on finding and training new talent. For example Stings pickup was followed by an IEM win and Check has been tearing up qualifiers very close to a breakthrough moment. That means we deal with a lot of relatively new players. These new talents aren't going to have a stack of WCS points. This was never too big of a problem, WW focused primarily on IEM/DH which we could send players to regardless. We’d like to take a moment to thank these 2 organizations for their role in esports. Without them our journey in esports would not have been possible. The climate is changing however. You can no longer send players to IEM events if they don’t have sufficient WCS points and DH Winter (arguably the main focus of the team) no longer has an open tournament. This means that we have to count on our players to win qualifiers to attend events. This isn't a bad thing; it’s just how the new system works. Unfortunately qualifiers are often finicky. If you look at the names Check beat in stage 1 of the IEM NY qualifiers, you’d think it’s an amazing showing, only to be confronted with Innovation right off the bat in stage 2. If players do qualify, often the qualifiers are too close to events to be able to budget for them, or the events pay for travel at which point a team contributes very little to begin with. Traditionally, the most talented players got support from teams, now a team is better off picking up someone that already has WCS points. We got caught in a position where we had talented players that we couldn't send to events. We were paying them but we couldn't show a return to our sponsors. We tried to make up for this by providing a lot more content for sponsors, but that just delayed the inevitable and a team like ours can’t function within the WCS system. We didn't believe in the WCS system and we can’t sell to our sponsors something we don’t believe in. So the decision was made to either continue on without a StarCraft 2 squad or close up shop. Arguably, we could have taken the money we were offered and survived. To be frank, our remaining players (meaning those in other games) are in such a good position within their respective scenes that they’ll be fine even without us. I spent much more time dealing with SC2 than I did with all other teams combined. Does that answer your question? It's probably a little late, and I'm sure you considered it, but I will ask anyway. Did you consider selling/transferring the non-SC2 team to another organisation/other management, and just closing the SC2 division to minimise disruption to the rest of the players, or was it a case that it wasn't feasible to do so? It's nice (and also not nice) that you decided to close the whole team because SC2 was unsustainable, as it shows where your heart truely was, but I guess the other teams, even though they were successful, would probably feel hard done by in that they suffer because the SC2 team couldn't manage to do enough due to the ecosystem. I guess I'm just hoping that there's no ill-will from the other people/teams/game communities due to your decision being taken only over SC2. I would guess finding a stable for a whole group of teams across a variety of games would be very challenging anyway, if even possible at all without a lot of negotiation.
Yeah we did consider that option. The Fifa and FGC players have a lot of opportunities. Their scenes are stable and they're at the respective tops of their scenes, so we're confident they'll make it out quite well. In all honesty, the Fifa and FGC players didn't need us nearly as much. We're ensuring they're cared for as much as we can. We're not just leaving them out in the cold of course.
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United States97276 Posts
Oh wow that's sad to see. Good luck to the players. Hopefully they can find new teams.
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Even more beastly Koreans looking for a home..
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Damn, that sucks. I always liked Western Wolves. It had this outsider feeling. A team for people trying to prove themselves.
I liked that they even sponsored fighting games players for a time, like Infiltration and Laugh as well.
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Liked the post : l i n k
(http://westernwolves.com/content/News/Western_Wolves_closes_its_door-600.html)
But what's the current situations for the players? Poss to list some if it's "fully handled" now as you stated..?
Hungry for news...
Fighting: Ryan Hart, Femi Adeboye, Andreas Demetriou
FIFA: Krasimir Ivanov, Marius Victor Craciun, Ovidiu Patrascu
Starcraft 2: Daniel Ohlsson, Kim Min Gyu, Lee Jong Hyuk, Ju Hoon
SortOf... Where to? Any talks with Swedish Alliance/Nani? another American team? Some Korean team?
RIP WW, you set a good example and were a team loved and respected by many!
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Russian Federation66 Posts
SortOf... Where to? Any talks with Swedish Alliance/Nani? another American team? Some Korean team?
SortOf is in Alliance since June.
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Damn, sorry they had to go. I always thought their players had a good approach to the game
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On December 21 2013 02:54 Dalnore wrote:Show nested quote +SortOf... Where to? Any talks with Swedish Alliance/Nani? another American team? Some Korean team? SortOf is in Alliance since June.
oops, my bad, thanks!
Now bring in the upcoming Koreans from WW and start to form up a kicking-ass team please ;-)
Would loove to see Alliance commit to SC2 / make a full team.
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2013 was not a great year for teams; let's hope 2014 is better.
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Teams shutting down left and right....nothing wrong at all, starcraft is perfectly fine
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Sad. Western Wolves is the best team name in eSports imo.
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On December 21 2013 03:28 WetSocks wrote:
Sad. Western Wolves is the best team name in eSports imo.
I think Yoe Flash wolves has to be #1
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On December 21 2013 02:42 Martijn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2013 02:32 Lonyo wrote:On December 21 2013 01:42 Martijn wrote:On December 21 2013 01:39 Smurfett3 wrote:On December 21 2013 01:32 Martijn wrote:On December 21 2013 01:23 MasterReY wrote:
What about a reason? :/
I dont like news with important information missing. If there's a lot of questions remaining, I'll fill them in where I can. Of course I won't violate anyone's confidentiality, but I'm confident I can satisfy any questions you lot will have mostly. I agree, there is nothing about why they are closing. Since they are closing every single one of their esports teams, we can only assume that it is financial issues We were actually in a position where we could continue the team without an SC2 squad, or close the team as a whole. It’s no secret that WW invested a lot in StarCaft 2. We already had world top fighting game players, Fifa players and held a promising CSGO roster among others. But with my background, my personal commitment was always going to be focused on StarCraft 2. I think we can be quite proud of what we've accomplished. We look back at having held an IEM title, and now qualifying for ATC establishing ourselves as a top 4 foreigner team. Unfortunately our formula is one that simply can’t last in the current scene. We've always focused on finding and training new talent. For example Stings pickup was followed by an IEM win and Check has been tearing up qualifiers very close to a breakthrough moment. That means we deal with a lot of relatively new players. These new talents aren't going to have a stack of WCS points. This was never too big of a problem, WW focused primarily on IEM/DH which we could send players to regardless. We’d like to take a moment to thank these 2 organizations for their role in esports. Without them our journey in esports would not have been possible. The climate is changing however. You can no longer send players to IEM events if they don’t have sufficient WCS points and DH Winter (arguably the main focus of the team) no longer has an open tournament. This means that we have to count on our players to win qualifiers to attend events. This isn't a bad thing; it’s just how the new system works. Unfortunately qualifiers are often finicky. If you look at the names Check beat in stage 1 of the IEM NY qualifiers, you’d think it’s an amazing showing, only to be confronted with Innovation right off the bat in stage 2. If players do qualify, often the qualifiers are too close to events to be able to budget for them, or the events pay for travel at which point a team contributes very little to begin with. Traditionally, the most talented players got support from teams, now a team is better off picking up someone that already has WCS points. We got caught in a position where we had talented players that we couldn't send to events. We were paying them but we couldn't show a return to our sponsors. We tried to make up for this by providing a lot more content for sponsors, but that just delayed the inevitable and a team like ours can’t function within the WCS system. We didn't believe in the WCS system and we can’t sell to our sponsors something we don’t believe in. So the decision was made to either continue on without a StarCraft 2 squad or close up shop. Arguably, we could have taken the money we were offered and survived. To be frank, our remaining players (meaning those in other games) are in such a good position within their respective scenes that they’ll be fine even without us. I spent much more time dealing with SC2 than I did with all other teams combined. Does that answer your question? It's probably a little late, and I'm sure you considered it, but I will ask anyway. Did you consider selling/transferring the non-SC2 team to another organisation/other management, and just closing the SC2 division to minimise disruption to the rest of the players, or was it a case that it wasn't feasible to do so? It's nice (and also not nice) that you decided to close the whole team because SC2 was unsustainable, as it shows where your heart truely was, but I guess the other teams, even though they were successful, would probably feel hard done by in that they suffer because the SC2 team couldn't manage to do enough due to the ecosystem. I guess I'm just hoping that there's no ill-will from the other people/teams/game communities due to your decision being taken only over SC2. I would guess finding a stable for a whole group of teams across a variety of games would be very challenging anyway, if even possible at all without a lot of negotiation. Yeah we did consider that option. The Fifa and FGC players have a lot of opportunities. Their scenes are stable and they're at the respective tops of their scenes, so we're confident they'll make it out quite well. In all honesty, the Fifa and FGC players didn't need us nearly as much. We're ensuring they're cared for as much as we can. We're not just leaving them out in the cold of course.
Glad to hear that, I hope the non-Starcraft players fall on their feet almost as much as I want all the Starcraft players to keep competing.
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OMG, so many teams shuting down.
We need new teams coming into the scene
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On December 21 2013 03:44 Burns wrote:
OMG, so many teams shuting down.
We need new teams coming into the scene What incentive do organizations have to do so?
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Waaah, everything is shutting down or retiring, dark times for SC2.
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I still don't understand why you would close the entire team instead of shutting down the division that is becoming the burden. Seems silly.
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You did a great job Western Wolves. You can be proud of what you've done.
Just a little question : what was the exact relationship between Western Wolves and Low Land Lions ? Were they related in any way or was it just a fork ?
Good luck to all the players and the staff in the future !
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[sarcasm]So Blizzard killing esports after all...[/sarcasm]
The scene really needs more open tournaments, sad to hear iem is now dependend on wcs aswell, especially since I also dislike the rule book they released.
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so WCS killing esports again
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On December 21 2013 06:21 Boucot wrote:
You did a great job Western Wolves. You can be proud of what you've done.
Just a little question : what was the exact relationship between Western Wolves and Low Land Lions ? Were they related in any way or was it just a fork ?
Good luck to all the players and the staff in the future !
LLL = Benelux section
Western Wolvers = Western section without Benelux.
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On December 21 2013 03:29 LongShot27 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2013 03:28 WetSocks wrote:
Sad. Western Wolves is the best team name in eSports imo. I think Yoe Flash wolves has to be #1
Meet your Makers...?
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Always wondered how most teams sustain themselves since nobody is promotion their sponsors, i doubt a single guy reading this know a sponsor of WW without looking it up first(which you would not normally do) :D
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Another one bites the dust.
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On December 21 2013 05:38 TeslasPigeon wrote:
I still don't understand why you would close the entire team instead of shutting down the division that is becoming the burden. Seems silly.
You're right in that we could've sat around collecting sponsor money doing little more than booking the occasional flight. But we feel we're too good for that. If you're doing things in esports purely for the money, you're in the wrong market.
Most of management has too much expertise and experience to have to settle for positions they don't enjoy. None of us were interested in sitting around for the cash or copping out and picking up a LoL roster or something.
On December 21 2013 06:21 Boucot wrote:
You did a great job Western Wolves. You can be proud of what you've done.
Just a little question : what was the exact relationship between Western Wolves and Low Land Lions ? Were they related in any way or was it just a fork ?
Good luck to all the players and the staff in the future !
LLL suffered from a luxury problem. We had international top players and Benelux top players, like we had global sponsors and Benelux sponsors. Those interests would clash at times. Benelux sponsors would wonder why they're paying us money to send nonbenelux players across the globe and global sponsors would wonder why they're paying to support players that aren't international top.
So we made the decision to start a second team and move the international players and sponsors there. This means that LLL and WW are 100% seperate organizations with separate staff, players and sponsors. I think aside from myself there were only 1 or 2 people that had a roll in both teams. The only reason there was any overlap was because of convenience. My work for LLL was work I mostly already had to do for WW anyway.
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On December 21 2013 01:42 Martijn wrote:
We were actually in a position where we could continue the team without an SC2 squad, or close the team as a whole.
So why didn't you? I may have missed the reasoning for shutting down an entire organization because of one game division so I apologize if I have. Did you feel that WW was too enmeshed into the SC2 scene to survive long without it?
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TLADT24920 Posts
Can someone please mention the players that WW had? Was San one of them? I'm not familiar with their own players unfortunately. Either way, sad to see another team shutting down but it's inevitable. Best of luck to the players!
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Canada16217 Posts
On December 21 2013 07:56 BigFan wrote:
Can someone please mention the players that WW had? Was San one of them? I'm not familiar with their own players unfortunately. Either way, sad to see another team shutting down but it's inevitable. Best of luck to the players!
They had Check(ALBM), Daisy, starnan, Ziktomini, and Sting, San is on Yoe Flash Wolves
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On December 21 2013 07:56 BigFan wrote:
Can someone please mention the players that WW had? Was San one of them? I'm not familiar with their own players unfortunately. Either way, sad to see another team shutting down but it's inevitable. Best of luck to the players!
here, let me Liquipedia that for you:
Check
Daisy
StarNaN
Sting
Ziktomini
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Sad to see. Always liked WW. Seemed like the SC2 team that just kept plugging along silently improving their line up.  Maybe a resurrection for LotV
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On December 21 2013 07:52 GunPaladin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2013 01:42 Martijn wrote:
We were actually in a position where we could continue the team without an SC2 squad, or close the team as a whole.
So why didn't you? I may have missed the reasoning for shutting an entire org because of one game division so I apologize if I have. Did you feel that WW was too enmeshed into the SC2 scene to survive long without it?
Think I just addressed that while you were posting, but to be a bit more thorough; Our Fifa and Fighting game players rely on team support far less than our SC2 roster. We had extremely talented people on staff like Yuna, our Korean liaison, that helped our Korean players a lot. I myself got called up to WW as a problemsolver for SC2. My role within WW is Operations Manager, but since we dropped our CSGO team, 75% of the work was for the SC2 roster.
Fifa and FGC practically ran themselves. As long as I checked in once a week and booked what needed to be, there was rarely much work needed. They benefited from the team much less. Not to mention because of their skilllevel, they will have very little problem landing on their feet.
tldr; They don't need us, we don't have as much to offer them. Only reason to keep going would've been our salaries.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On December 21 2013 07:58 NovemberstOrm wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2013 07:56 BigFan wrote:
Can someone please mention the players that WW had? Was San one of them? I'm not familiar with their own players unfortunately. Either way, sad to see another team shutting down but it's inevitable. Best of luck to the players! They had Check(ALBM), Daisy, starnan, Ziktomini, and Sting, San is on Yoe Flash Wolves
ALBM? I recall the name but not the previous team he was on. Remember Ziktomini from UK finals I think. Didn't realize Sting was still playing(read something about him retiring? maybe it was just moving teams). oh, ok makes sense that I messed up his team then lol. thanks!
On December 21 2013 07:58 GunPaladin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2013 07:56 BigFan wrote:
Can someone please mention the players that WW had? Was San one of them? I'm not familiar with their own players unfortunately. Either way, sad to see another team shutting down but it's inevitable. Best of luck to the players! here, let me Liquipedia that for you: Check Daisy StarNaN Sting Ziktomini
merci ~
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On December 21 2013 08:03 Martijn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2013 07:52 GunPaladin wrote:On December 21 2013 01:42 Martijn wrote:
We were actually in a position where we could continue the team without an SC2 squad, or close the team as a whole.
So why didn't you? I may have missed the reasoning for shutting an entire org because of one game division so I apologize if I have. Did you feel that WW was too enmeshed into the SC2 scene to survive long without it? Think I just addressed that while you were posting, but to be a bit more thorough; Our Fifa and Fighting game players rely on team support far less than our SC2 roster. We had extremely talented people on staff like Yuna, our Korean liaison, that helped our Korean players a lot. I myself got called up to WW as a problemsolver for SC2. My role within WW is Operations Manager, but since we dropped our CSGO team, 75% of the work was for the SC2 roster. Fifa and FGC practically ran themselves. As long as I checked in once a week and booked what needed to be, there was rarely much work needed. They benefited from the team much less. Not to mention because of their skilllevel, they will have very little problem landing on their feet. tldr; They don't need us, we don't have as much to offer them. Only reason to keep going would've been our salaries.
ah i see, thanks for responding.
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Good Bye WW! Hope the Koreans can find a team and can continue to play.
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Canada16217 Posts
On December 21 2013 08:06 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2013 07:58 NovemberstOrm wrote:On December 21 2013 07:56 BigFan wrote:
Can someone please mention the players that WW had? Was San one of them? I'm not familiar with their own players unfortunately. Either way, sad to see another team shutting down but it's inevitable. Best of luck to the players! They had Check(ALBM), Daisy, starnan, Ziktomini, and Sting, San is on Yoe Flash Wolves ALBM? I recall the name but not the previous team he was on. Remember Ziktomini from UK finals I think. Didn't realize Sting was still playing(read something about him retiring? maybe it was just moving teams). oh, ok makes sense that I messed up his team then lol. thanks! Show nested quote +On December 21 2013 07:58 GunPaladin wrote:On December 21 2013 07:56 BigFan wrote:
Can someone please mention the players that WW had? Was San one of them? I'm not familiar with their own players unfortunately. Either way, sad to see another team shutting down but it's inevitable. Best of luck to the players! here, let me Liquipedia that for you: Check Daisy StarNaN Sting Ziktomini merci ~
Check was on Jin Air Green Wings/Team 8, he used to go by the ID ALBM
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This is quite sad, I liked their team. I hope that especially Sting and Check will find new teams soon. Seeing Check on either Prime or Samsung Galaxy would be great.
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On December 21 2013 07:52 Martijn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2013 05:38 TeslasPigeon wrote:
I still don't understand why you would close the entire team instead of shutting down the division that is becoming the burden. Seems silly. You're right in that we could've sat around collecting sponsor money doing little more than booking the occasional flight. But we feel we're too good for that. If you're doing things in esports purely for the money, you're in the wrong market. Most of management has too much expertise and experience to have to settle for positions they don't enjoy. None of us were interested in sitting around for the cash or copping out and picking up a LoL roster or something. Show nested quote +On December 21 2013 06:21 Boucot wrote:
You did a great job Western Wolves. You can be proud of what you've done.
Just a little question : what was the exact relationship between Western Wolves and Low Land Lions ? Were they related in any way or was it just a fork ?
Good luck to all the players and the staff in the future ! LLL suffered from a luxury problem. We had international top players and Benelux top players, like we had global sponsors and Benelux sponsors. Those interests would clash at times. Benelux sponsors would wonder why they're paying us money to send nonbenelux players across the globe and global sponsors would wonder why they're paying to support players that aren't international top. So we made the decision to start a second team and move the international players and sponsors there. This means that LLL and WW are 100% seperate organizations with separate staff, players and sponsors. I think aside from myself there were only 1 or 2 people that had a roll in both teams. The only reason there was any overlap was because of convenience. My work for LLL was work I mostly already had to do for WW anyway.
Thank you Martijn and good luck ! Will you stay in esports ?
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Such a pity, always admired Western Wolves' passion which allowed them to grow from a small team with notable talent, to become one of the top foreign teams, and at least you can depart the scene with your head held high after ATC #2!
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Well, that sux... good luck to the players
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Ah, this blows :/ I've always rooted for WW.
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On December 21 2013 08:52 Boucot wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2013 07:52 Martijn wrote:On December 21 2013 05:38 TeslasPigeon wrote:
I still don't understand why you would close the entire team instead of shutting down the division that is becoming the burden. Seems silly. You're right in that we could've sat around collecting sponsor money doing little more than booking the occasional flight. But we feel we're too good for that. If you're doing things in esports purely for the money, you're in the wrong market. Most of management has too much expertise and experience to have to settle for positions they don't enjoy. None of us were interested in sitting around for the cash or copping out and picking up a LoL roster or something. On December 21 2013 06:21 Boucot wrote:
You did a great job Western Wolves. You can be proud of what you've done.
Just a little question : what was the exact relationship between Western Wolves and Low Land Lions ? Were they related in any way or was it just a fork ?
Good luck to all the players and the staff in the future ! LLL suffered from a luxury problem. We had international top players and Benelux top players, like we had global sponsors and Benelux sponsors. Those interests would clash at times. Benelux sponsors would wonder why they're paying us money to send nonbenelux players across the globe and global sponsors would wonder why they're paying to support players that aren't international top. So we made the decision to start a second team and move the international players and sponsors there. This means that LLL and WW are 100% seperate organizations with separate staff, players and sponsors. I think aside from myself there were only 1 or 2 people that had a roll in both teams. The only reason there was any overlap was because of convenience. My work for LLL was work I mostly already had to do for WW anyway. Thank you Martijn and good luck ! Will you stay in esports ?
For now I'd appreciate the focus to be on the players looking for new homes. It'd be kind of crude to start promoting myself and detracting attention away before they are set. So, maybe.
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This is probably way too late but was this decided before ATC Finals or was that irrelevant?
Anyways my condolences and hope the players find new teams as they're all a talented hard working bunch.
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On December 21 2013 09:22 Martijn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2013 08:52 Boucot wrote:On December 21 2013 07:52 Martijn wrote:On December 21 2013 05:38 TeslasPigeon wrote:
I still don't understand why you would close the entire team instead of shutting down the division that is becoming the burden. Seems silly. You're right in that we could've sat around collecting sponsor money doing little more than booking the occasional flight. But we feel we're too good for that. If you're doing things in esports purely for the money, you're in the wrong market. Most of management has too much expertise and experience to have to settle for positions they don't enjoy. None of us were interested in sitting around for the cash or copping out and picking up a LoL roster or something. On December 21 2013 06:21 Boucot wrote:
You did a great job Western Wolves. You can be proud of what you've done.
Just a little question : what was the exact relationship between Western Wolves and Low Land Lions ? Were they related in any way or was it just a fork ?
Good luck to all the players and the staff in the future ! LLL suffered from a luxury problem. We had international top players and Benelux top players, like we had global sponsors and Benelux sponsors. Those interests would clash at times. Benelux sponsors would wonder why they're paying us money to send nonbenelux players across the globe and global sponsors would wonder why they're paying to support players that aren't international top. So we made the decision to start a second team and move the international players and sponsors there. This means that LLL and WW are 100% seperate organizations with separate staff, players and sponsors. I think aside from myself there were only 1 or 2 people that had a roll in both teams. The only reason there was any overlap was because of convenience. My work for LLL was work I mostly already had to do for WW anyway. Thank you Martijn and good luck ! Will you stay in esports ? For now I'd appreciate the focus to be on the players looking for new homes. It'd be kind of crude to start promoting myself and detracting attention away before they are set. So, maybe.
Of course. Thanks for answering anyway, must be a tough day.
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On December 21 2013 09:29 AWalker9 wrote:
This is probably way too late but was this decided before ATC Finals or was that irrelevant?
Anyways my condolences and hope the players find new teams as they're all a talented hard working bunch.
It was decided before the finals. Only the 4 best foreign teams made it to the finals after all, that's a great result. We're really proud the guys got there.
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What happens with the players? Will some of them retire?
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wow.
I had the feeling WW was in a pretty good situation...looks like i was wrong.
It was a very good team,i liked players choices.
Gl to staff and players now.
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On December 21 2013 01:39 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2013 01:24 Jayp wrote:On December 21 2013 01:23 MasterReY wrote:
What about a reason? :/
I dont like news with important information missing. It's in the news article. Tell me then, couldn't find it. I hate ppl like you, neither being able to read a freaking article nor being able to give an intelligent answer. bye WW, sad to see ya go User was warned for this post
Although your reply was rude I actually agree with your point. Too bad Jayp did not receive his share of the punishment.
I'm wondering... if Infiltration left WW because of its impending shutdown or?
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On December 21 2013 10:47 var username wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2013 01:39 boxerfred wrote:On December 21 2013 01:24 Jayp wrote:On December 21 2013 01:23 MasterReY wrote:
What about a reason? :/
I dont like news with important information missing. It's in the news article. Tell me then, couldn't find it. I hate ppl like you, neither being able to read a freaking article nor being able to give an intelligent answer. bye WW, sad to see ya go User was warned for this post Although your reply was rude I actually agree with your point. Too bad Jayp did not receive his share of the punishment. I'm wondering... if Infiltration left WW because of its impending shutdown or?
Sorry, I had a different version as I was Staff, and thought it was detailed. Alas, my bad. Infiltration left for other reasons.
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Very sad. Yet another WCS casualty.
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Very very sad to hear this, but with your explanation it certainly makes sense. It was a good run. Truly wishing everyone the best, I don't think most will have a problem getting picked up should they decide to continue.
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On December 21 2013 10:47 var username wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2013 01:39 boxerfred wrote:On December 21 2013 01:24 Jayp wrote:On December 21 2013 01:23 MasterReY wrote:
What about a reason? :/
I dont like news with important information missing. It's in the news article. Tell me then, couldn't find it. I hate ppl like you, neither being able to read a freaking article nor being able to give an intelligent answer. bye WW, sad to see ya go User was warned for this post I'm wondering... if Infiltration left WW because of its impending shutdown or?
Nah, Infiltration left long before any of this played.
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Just read your post on page 1 going in depth on the reasons. Thanks for being so open about the whole situation. It really sucks to see yet another team closing down.
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On December 21 2013 13:42 Bobbias wrote:
Just read your post on page 1 going in depth on the reasons. Thanks for being so open about the whole situation. It really sucks to see yet another team closing down.
We ran the team with openness and clarity, might as well stick to our principles all the way to the end! Thanks for the kind words.
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i wonder when they realized that its not worth it to hire a couple of unknown koreans without results
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
Hope check can find a good team!
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seem like a cool team hope all the players find a new home
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Great writeup Martijn. It was very insightful and it answered most of my questions that I had after reading the initial news post.
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Oh, that's sad!
Good luck to the players!
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On December 21 2013 07:21 Fus wrote:
Always wondered how most teams sustain themselves since nobody is promotion their sponsors, i doubt a single guy reading this know a sponsor of WW without looking it up first(which you would not normally do) :D
this point always comes up with teams shutting down and i'd have to agree. as an sc2 addict that watches most of the players and games and such, i'd have to agree. i have no idea who western wolves' sponsors were, and this cannot be a good thing. as viewers we get so much premium content for free and with the exception of EG and Take+co, nobody is ramming the sponsors down our throats and presumably the roi is suffering greatly because of this poor marketing approach.
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EPT
