EPTIf there was a way for us to get some more ghosts out earlier the protoss wouldn't be able to just 1a into our tank lines without suffering the consequences. But what is DKim really going to do? Shave off 25/50 gas off things here and there? haha I don't know Just my 2c's.
Suggestion for a Mech tvp Buff - Page 12
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
HeathenHill
Australia22 Posts
If there was a way for us to get some more ghosts out earlier the protoss wouldn't be able to just 1a into our tank lines without suffering the consequences. But what is DKim really going to do? Shave off 25/50 gas off things here and there? haha I don't know Just my 2c's. | ||
|
Qwyn
United States2779 Posts
On December 03 2013 22:23 deacon.frost wrote: I can't believe what I see. Just out of curiosity - how am I supposed to kill a meching player without immortals? It would be nice to see this answer from goody himself, since he's suggesting this buff  The same way that Protoss killed mech in Brood War, just amplified. There was an awesome game by WhiteRa in the HOTS beta that demonstrates the mass gateway style against mech, and it looked AWESOME (as in, Protoss never plays like this and it was sweet as fuck). Stop looking for simple counter and units and start thinking complex, overarching gameplans -_-. | ||
|
Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
Stop looking for simple counter and units and start thinking complex, overarching gameplans -_-. Great quote  these are words to live by in reality <3 It really applies to all races in all aspects haha | ||
|
Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On December 04 2013 06:42 Qwyn wrote: The same way that Protoss killed mech in Brood War, just amplified. There was an awesome game by WhiteRa in the HOTS beta that demonstrates the mass gateway style against mech, and it looked AWESOME (as in, Protoss never plays like this and it was sweet as fuck). Stop looking for simple counter and units and start thinking complex, overarching gameplans -_-. It's not like Immortals would be useless if this change occure, just less OP against tanks. | ||
|
AnachronisticAnarchy
United States2957 Posts
Thread didn't disappoint on the quality front, though; just on the first page there are 3 people telling Goody himself to "just use ghosts", as if the solution was actually that simple. | ||
|
woopr
United States110 Posts
| ||
|
Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On December 04 2013 06:50 woopr wrote: blizzard needs to just make tanks 2 supply already. the immortal isn't the only problem with mech. Would totally break tvz and tvt. | ||
|
woopr
United States110 Posts
the most it would do in tvt is make mech favored, not break it like hellbats did. tanks already suck in tvz. | ||
|
KrazyTrumpet
United States2520 Posts
On December 04 2013 06:58 woopr wrote: can't break a mirror and tanks already suck in tvz. Uh, you absolutely can break a mirror. Remember the days when PvP was 4gate only? When TvT was Hellbat drops only? | ||
|
woopr
United States110 Posts
On December 04 2013 07:01 KrazyTrumpet wrote: Uh, you absolutely can break a mirror. Remember the days when PvP was 4gate only? When TvT was Hellbat drops only? edited already. those game breaking things were in the early game. a change in tank supply from 2-3 makes a difference in a mid-late game comp and is completely different in how it affects the match up. it's not a buff directly to the tank, it's a buff to the late-game army. | ||
|
submarine
Germany290 Posts
Immortal changed -hardened shield removed -Shield increased from 100 to 150 IMHO the immortal would still be strong against thors, tanks and ultras, but less of an hardcounter. I would really like to play around with these numbers in the Unit tester. | ||
|
larse
1611 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LwycV7f.jpg) As a mech follower who has watched and collected more than 100 games of mech TvP, I don't agree with either Nony or Goody. I feel the actual problem of mech is not the strength of mech army vs protoss in the mid-to-late-game. Tank+Ghost+Hellbat can win most ground to ground big engagement with the same supply or cost. The true problem of mech is two-fold: 1, Protoss's effective capitalization of the immobility of mech. 2, Protoss' air transition. Of course, David Kim can buff the damages or HP of mech armies like crazy and it will obvious help. But the true solution lies in solving these two issues for mech. The solution for the first weakness, I feel, is to give Terran mech some sort of map control. If there is vulture, mech will probably work in SC2 because the power of map control from vulture will diminish the power of Protoss's capitalization of the immobility of other mech units. But of course, vulture will never be reintroduced. So, the more realistic solution I have is to give Terran a buff to base defense such as a buff to the planetary fortress or gives planetary fortress an ability to call down fire turrets that stick onto Terran buildings for 1 minutes or something. This is because most Protoss' effective capitalization on mech's immobility depends on attacking your base from multiple locations while your slow mech army moves out. The fire turret is crucial because most such counterattack depends on spamming zealots. The solution for the second weakness, I feel, is obviously to make anti-air stronger. The solution I feel should be to extend the range to Thor's single-shot mode from 10 to 12 or 13. BTW, Thor's single-shot has the same range of Thor's splash missiles. Some Mech TvP resources: 99 VODs of mech TvP since HOTS: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkcGrtT2s3NryMEKCdYixgOZ5iSHufpdk TL Mech resources: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396525 Mech TvP FPVOD from HTOMario (He deletes them after a few days): http://www.twitch.tv/htomario/profile/pastBroadcasts | ||
|
Blargh
United States2101 Posts
I think reducing Ghost's EMP radius a small amount and allowing snipe to function on non-biological units would be nice. I think it should definitely do more damage to Bio, but it's silly for it to not work versus other Protoss units. Think how cool it'd be to use snipe on colossus! Ghosts at least require some decent micro mechanics to use. They could probably reduce the resource costs for Ghosts as well and it wouldn't make anything too OP. Widow mines should be changed since they are a badly designed unit in the first place. What mech actually needs is the Goliath. A unit that can attack air well and the ground DPS is a bit more than a stimmed marine. It costs 150M 50G, which would work just fine for Mech. Hellbats are pretty bad versus anything that isn't biological and they are not a microable unit for the most part (you pretty much A-move them like a zealot) For some retarded-ass reason, Blizzard thought they should add a unit called the Warhound instead of just using the units ALREADY IN THEIR GAME. Hell, they could add Diamondbacks to the game too and it wouldn't hurt anything. They aren't really that strong in the campaigns after all. The key problem with Mech versus Protoss is that the army is so immobile and has so many weaknesses that can be exploited. A warp prism can warp in 10 zealots into the Terran's main and it'll take at least 1 minute before the Terran could actually clean it up. Mech is almost forced to get vikings for the added vision to siege tanks, and if they don't, voidrays could probably clean them up. Since Ghosts are never actually used in any of the match ups except against Protoss with storms, they might as well just change/buff the unit. But honestly, who gives a shit about Mech vs Protoss when the game has so many OTHER bad things in it? Blizz needs to give their units some actual depth. Shit man, just look at their Oracle change. They actually think that increasing the movement speed to 10000 adds to the unit. They kill workers way too fast, making them the type of unit where you either get enough defense so that it does NO damage or it just kills you outright. Nothing can actually kill it if the Protoss is paying any attention to it at all, which is bad. I would actually say that DECREASING it's movement speed would make the unit better. I'd so much rather see changes to the currently used units so that the game doesn't suck as much than see one build be viable versus Protoss... | ||
|
Sircoolguy
United States81 Posts
| ||
|
HeathenHill
Australia22 Posts
On December 04 2013 07:24 Blargh wrote: Since Ghosts are never actually used in any of the match ups except against Protoss with storms, they might as well just change/buff the unit. This. | ||
|
Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
| ||
|
DBS
515 Posts
| ||
|
Quotidian
Norway1937 Posts
On December 04 2013 03:50 Whitewing wrote: NonY posted this earlier today about mech: Good thoughts. not that I even agree with his main premise, which seems to be that protoss has to go especially far out of their way to counter mech (gateway+robo+ht tech does well vs both) but his line of reasoning seems to suggest that both players make their armies in a vacuum. He didn't even touch on the topic of scouting until half way through the video. Mech takes such a long time to build up, that it's easily scouted and exploited by the protoss, and terran can't flip/flop between mech and bio without adding on a lot of production, which is also scoutable. So even if there is some kind of inequality between standard and anti-mech protoss builds, it shouldn't be a big problem for a competent player | ||
|
pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On December 04 2013 03:50 Whitewing wrote: NonY posted this earlier today about mech: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTJGVhUkHXc&feature=c4-overview&list=UUWq5Ov8iY0I4eDh7VfadVrg Good thoughts. I might be misunderstanding, but isn't he just saying it's bad for P to have to play a reactionary game? When that's what every single T, Z, or, hell, even P has to do vs. P all-ins in the game right now, or get rolled? | ||
|
Leviance
Germany4079 Posts
On December 04 2013 07:32 DBS wrote: Best suggestion that might actually happen. Lets make this a big deal so that blizz actually might do it DBS are you still playing? Plz make comeback | ||
| ||
