Where to now for sOs, unexpected champion of WCS 2013?
by stuchiu
When WCS 2013 was announced, a number of reasons were given for its creation. Three goals stuck out in particular:
Unify and simplify the storylines.
Tell a yearlong story.
Crown the best player in the world.
If Global Champion Woongjin_sOs was supposed to be the hero of this story, then WCS failed at those goals.
sOs has spent 2013 being overshadowed. He did very well in the very first season of WCS, going all the way to the semifinals in Korea. But despite his deep run and creative take on HotS Protoss, there wasn't any room for him to break through in the midst of stars like Parting, Life, Innovation or Flash. He was Protoss' breakout star like finalists INnoVation and Soulkey were for Terran and Zerg, but their epic Bo7 series ended up being the only thing anyone remembered of WCS Korea Season 1.
sOs proceeded to go even further in the WCS Season 1 Combined Finals, placing second place after losing to INnoVation in the finals. But once more, he was outshone by other players. All eyes were on INnoVation as he finally took the championship that many saw as his due, while the great Mvp impressed the viewers by looking timeless in his semi-final run.
Following that season finals, sOs went into a steep decline as he was knocked out by Maru in the Ro32 of WCS Korea Season 2 , and then by Trap in the Ro16 of Season 3. Thus, sOs was quickly forgotten by the majority of fans until BlizzCon rolled around, where people tended to remember him 'as that guy who made Tempests against INnoVation once.'
Not surprisingly, sOs's Ro16 and Ro8 games at BlizzCon were relegated to the secondary stream, with main stream preference given to fan favorites like Bomber and Jaedong. Thus, when sOs emerged on the main stage in the semi-finals, casual fans couldn't be blamed for thinking he had magically appeared out of nowhere. Naturally, it followed that the majority of the narrative in the BlizzCon finals was about Jaedong. It was all about the return of the Tyrant, and Jaedong's last test at the end of a years long championship drought.
However, sOs was no mere NPC to be taken down so Jaedong could claim his final reward. Using the trickery and clever strategies that had been his hallmark since Season 1, sOs ran circles around Jaedong. A 4 - 1 victory delivered sOs $100,000, the BlizzCon trophy, and finally, a place in the spotlight.
sOs signs the lease for a small plot of land inside Jaedong's head. - Photo: silverfire
In many ways, sOs is the polar opposite of Soul_Dear. Where sOs' rapid rise in Season 1 dampened by a variety of circumstances, Dear became the center of attention as he dominated Season 3. When sOs was a foot away from the summit, he was stopped by the two monsters known as Soulkey and Innovation, becoming a footnote in their duel for supremacy of the world. Dear on the other hand, refused to be stopped. He won the WCS Korea 3 over the best in the world and then he proved it again in one of the hottest tournaments of the year in the WCS Season 3 Finals.
Where sOs’ games tended to be one-sided in both loss and victory, Dear dropped jaws with thrilling games against Soulkey, Maru, and other top players. Dear was the rising star people wanted: a macro player, a player who actually delivered on the trite promise of "I will try to show you entertaining games," and a champion. He could have been the hero that gave WCS the storybook ending it needed.
But in the end, Dear lost to Jaedong at BlizzCon, while sOs won. Dear tried to fight Jaedong head on, but he was overpowered by a stronger-than-ever Tyrant. In sOs's case, he wasn't even interested in playing against Jaedong's ZvP - he wanted to play Jaedong, the human being. By employing cannon rushes, hidden bases, and strange builds, sOs set up shop inside of Jaedong's head. He got under his skin, annoyed him, frustrated him, and broke him.
One has to wonder why sOs failed to garner attention before his BlizzCon win. After all, all of the traits he showed against Jaedong—finely tuned build orders, unorthodox unit combinations, and devious mind-gaming—were all things he had possessed since Season 1. In fact, those traits made him a favorite among so-called "hipster-fans," as well as several top players (notable among them, NaNiwa). Was he purely a victim of circumstance, constantly surrounded by more compelling storylines? Or perhaps it was because on the surface, it was too easy to conflate his crafty and intelligent play as gimmicks that would lose strength with time. Without a title to his name, it may have been too easy to dismiss him.
In any case, here we are. sOs stands as the WCS 2013 champion, and has forced StarCraft 2 fans around to give him their respect.. The weeks ahead will be an important test for sOs, as he participates at two major tournaments at Red Bull Battle Grounds and DreamHack Winter. With good performances, that grudging respect may become support. With championships, support could become adoration.
sOs brought the tale of WCS 2013 to an unexpected and anti-climatic end. But as for his own story, that's just beginning.
Consider the Blizzcon finals- the casters sang the song of the Tyrant, and followed his story. sOs was his latest hurdle. How could sOs by a hyped player if he was not hyped?
On November 22 2013 18:52 Waxangel wrote: A korean is either a champion or a clown, it seems so hard them to gain popularity otherwise (a player like bomber is rarity!)
On November 22 2013 19:00 CutTheEnemy wrote: Caster Bias.
Consider the Blizzcon finals- the casters sang the song of the Tyrant, and followed his story. sOs was his latest hurdle. How could sOs by a hyped player if he was not hyped?
Agreed. If you look at results and compare it to the hype sOs was incredibly underhyped. Casters tend to only really hype players who play a certain way (like Artosis only liking straight up macro players)
On June 09 2013 17:50 Caihead wrote: if sOs wins this he will be the new boxer
On June 09 2013 17:59 Caihead wrote: sOs won my heart.
On June 09 2013 18:11 Caihead wrote: sOs was the real star of this tournament, showing some ridiculous play in all match ups and winning with it. I hope we see alot more of that in the future and not the same boring protoss timings.
I don't know what you guys are talking about, I had sOs figured for top player since his 0-4 against Innovation.
sOs straight up became my favourite protoss player after dismantling jaedong in the global finals. Jaedong just came out rampaging through maru with incredible gameplay (micro/macro/decision making was incredible), but sOs just never let him get into his stride. sOs might not have the best gameplay; after all he kept accidentally building the same tech structures twice, but he's an amazing player.
Because his wins aren't through astounding micro or amazing mechanics. They're just weird. That's all. He does weird stuff and wins, in a freaking inconsistent manner (winning blizzcon after being completely absent post season 1? Give me a break).
I'm really not impressed by crossing your fingers and hoping your opponent doesn't look in the right place. Cannon rushes can be executed by silver league players for christ's sake.
Dear, on the other hand, shows people what a truly skilled Protoss looks like. sOs pales in comparison.
On November 22 2013 19:59 chairmobile wrote: Because his wins aren't through astounding micro or amazing mechanics. They're just weird. That's all. He does weird stuff and wins, in a freaking inconsistent manner (winning blizzcon after being completely absent post season 1? Give me a break).
I'm really not impressed by crossing your fingers and hoping your opponent doesn't look in the right place. Cannon rushes can be executed by silver league players for christ's sake.
Dear, on the other hand, shows people what a truly skilled Protoss looks like. sOs pales in comparison.
No, all that can be executed by silver league players are unsubstantiated claims like yours and whining about "cheese". The only way someone would think sOs wins through crossing his fingers is by not understanding his brilliance.
Oh, I see. TL writers already bashed on sOs once, but apparently it wasn't enough. Perhaps if they repeat how unexpected unfavored undeserved etc he was enough times, someone would buy that eventually.
On November 22 2013 19:59 chairmobile wrote: Because his wins aren't through astounding micro or amazing mechanics. They're just weird. That's all. He does weird stuff and wins, in a freaking inconsistent manner (winning blizzcon after being completely absent post season 1? Give me a break).
I'm really not impressed by crossing your fingers and hoping your opponent doesn't look in the right place. Cannon rushes can be executed by silver league players for christ's sake.
Dear, on the other hand, shows people what a truly skilled Protoss looks like. sOs pales in comparison.
He was knocked out in Season 2 by losses (in one game series!) to Maru and soO, who both went on to show themselves to be among the best in the world.]
As for the idea that he won Blizzcon because of cannon rushes, watching the games he played dispels that notion quickly enough.
so what the future holds for sos and soulkey in 2014? with no wonjin stars in the spl? prime.sos prime.soulkey incoming? i very doubt prime can afford those 2...
It amazes me how some people can do so much deep analisys on Jaedong/Dear/their_favourite_player gameplay and skills, yet they fail to do it on sOs and just call him weird, cheesy, lucky and underskilled.
sOs is a brilliant player. You may like or not his style, but failing to see his brilliance only speaks about your own limitations not his.
Nah, a lot of people just got caught up with the hype by the casters like Artosis. Innovation, who with all his mega-hyped mechanical play couldn't even progress through group stages in both WCS S2 Global and WCS S3 KR. Yet he got hyped by the casters like he's some demi-god. The same Innovation who got kicked out of Blizzcon by the underrated Duckdeok.
On November 22 2013 19:55 Random_0 wrote: What sOs needs is sick nickname, something that makes people remember his achievements and crystallize his play style in their minds.
Given his propensity for mindgames, I vote for "The Magician". :D
On November 22 2013 19:55 Random_0 wrote: What sOs needs is sick nickname, something that makes people remember his achievements and crystallize his play style in their minds.
Given his propensity for mindgames, I vote for "The Magician". :D
He already has a nickname. I preferably like to call him the innovator of protoss violence though. It would have been an anti-climatic end no matter who won.
On November 22 2013 18:24 Aeromi wrote: sOs is just a casual player according WJS coach.
Playing casually is the easiest way into mindgames.
For instance: "there's no way he can recover from this, i killed all his scvs at his third and nat and he has no other bases muahahaha"
Jokes on you, i have terrible macro, lemme get rid of that 3k/3k bank~
I say that last line in virtually every game I'm in. Along with "you killed a control group? Jokes on you, I'm terrible and didn't have the multitasking to control it anyway
Not surprisingly, sOs's Ro16 and Ro8 games at BlizzCon were relegated to the secondary stream, with main stream preference given to fan favorites like Bomber and Jaedong.
If that was true we would have seen Polt on the main stage for one of his two series.
But really there were fan favorites in every game. Did not get to see any Team Liquid players nor Innovation. I wish they would do a 2 stage setup or have the finals over 3 days. If you do it at Blizzcon, have the Ro16 on Thursday. Ro8 and Ro4 on Friday. Finals on Saturday (so that both players are well rested and on even ground, sucked there was no Finals pre show and Jaedong had to play right away after the intense series vs Maru.)
On November 22 2013 23:25 lichter wrote: I don't understand people who complain about sOs. It's like they want Protoss to be one dimensional and boring.
Also Dear goes quick DTs in a ridiculous amount of his PvPs
Quick DT is the safest expand build in PvP and not cheesy at all. But yea, sOs <3.
On November 22 2013 23:25 lichter wrote: I don't understand people who complain about sOs. It's like they want Protoss to be one dimensional and boring.
Also Dear goes quick DTs in a ridiculous amount of his PvPs
Quick DT is the safest expand build in PvP and not cheesy at all. But yea, sOs <3.
Agreed. I've killed so many 1 base allins just by doing dt expands.
On November 22 2013 23:25 lichter wrote: I don't understand people who complain about sOs. It's like they want Protoss to be one dimensional and boring.
Also Dear goes quick DTs in a ridiculous amount of his PvPs
I don't understand it, either. Apparently, some people want Protoss to map split, defend, build colossus, go 200/200, then A-move.
the spirit of the silver curse marinekong prime inherited from the one true kong yellow has now passed on to jaekong as his predecessor has switched to lol "retired" and the silver throne is in need of an occupant
On November 23 2013 01:48 Ctone23 wrote: lmao at people trying to diminish sOs skill and his accomplishment. 1st place at the global finals speaks for itself.
How can you quantify an incredible stupid statement like " dear is a true protoss and sOs is just lucky and does weird builds"
Give me a break.
There exists a mentality that only "macro games" are real games, not mindgames and weird strategies. There are many people who would rather have a mindless player who just hones mechanics rather than a player who thinks and plans out ways to catch the opponent off guard and make them uncomfortable.
In the end, you play to win, not play to get 4 bases and achieve a mineral income > 2k per minute.
I'm so happy an unorthodox, build themed, actual strategy oriented player won the biggest championship this year. He's entertaining to watch and that's what matters. Hopefully that's the main reason people watch SC2, and furthermore play it. I like the big names, but it just gets boring sometimes watching the same strategy executed as well as possible win over and over again, like how the majority of Terran and Zerg players win. It likely just the design of the races, but really how often do you see the best Zerg or Terran players pull out specialized builds against certain opponents on certain maps? It's standard a majority of the games and trying their best to make it work.
On November 23 2013 01:53 Guileful wrote: It's just he's not entertaining to watch and low on fans, even after WCS
low on fans? Were you expecting for him to get as many fans as jaedong has over the course of his entire career in only a few tournaments and his offerings in PL? I don't think so. The reaction was the same for when soulkey lost to dear. you guys don't like protoss we get it but you said the same shit about a lot of other protoss players while they did there thing which was winning.
In terms of entertainment and the current state of the game. There aren't that many players as entertaining as this guy. He delivers the goods.
On November 22 2013 19:00 CutTheEnemy wrote: Caster Bias.
Consider the Blizzcon finals- the casters sang the song of the Tyrant, and followed his story. sOs was his latest hurdle. How could sOs by a hyped player if he was not hyped?
What? You mean Jaedong was not playing the finals vs the AI?
On November 22 2013 19:00 CutTheEnemy wrote: Caster Bias.
Consider the Blizzcon finals- the casters sang the song of the Tyrant, and followed his story. sOs was his latest hurdle. How could sOs by a hyped player if he was not hyped?
What? You mean Jaedong was not playing the finals vs the AI?
Not like we didn't know the caster's failure beforehand. Reoccurring themes man.
On November 23 2013 01:48 Ctone23 wrote: lmao at people trying to diminish sOs skill and his accomplishment. 1st place at the global finals speaks for itself.
How can you quantify an incredible stupid statement like " dear is a true protoss and sOs is just lucky and does weird builds"
Give me a break.
There exists a mentality that only "macro games" are real games, not mindgames and weird strategies. There are many people who would rather have a mindless player who just hones mechanics rather than a player who thinks and plans out ways to catch the opponent off guard and make them uncomfortable.
In the end, you play to win, not play to get 4 bases and achieve a mineral income > 2k per minute.
Sure, he plays to win with cheese and weirdness. I did not say for a moment that he has no right to cheese, or that players should play for things other than winning.
I just said I don't find such wins impressive or entertaining, and that they aren't the mark of a champion like MVP (who occasionally does use cheese/weird builds, but not all the time and not as a replacement for mechanics/micro/tactics).
I suppose you prefer shitty games you can catch on silver NA to intense micro battles between players like Maru and Dear. Makes perfect sense to me.
On November 22 2013 19:59 chairmobile wrote: Because his wins aren't through astounding micro or amazing mechanics. They're just weird. That's all. He does weird stuff and wins, in a freaking inconsistent manner (winning blizzcon after being completely absent post season 1? Give me a break).
I'm really not impressed by crossing your fingers and hoping your opponent doesn't look in the right place. Cannon rushes can be executed by silver league players for christ's sake.
Dear, on the other hand, shows people what a truly skilled Protoss looks like. sOs pales in comparison.
No, all that can be executed by silver league players are unsubstantiated claims like yours and whining about "cheese". The only way someone would think sOs wins through crossing his fingers is by not understanding his brilliance.
Wow, nice substantiated claim there. You call me a whiner, call sOs a genius, and declare victory.
I see a lot of evidence and reasoning and logic there, bro. Excellent argumentation!
On November 23 2013 01:53 Guileful wrote: It's just he's not entertaining to watch and low on fans, even after WCS
low on fans? Were you expecting for him to get as many fans as jaedong has over the course of his entire career in only a few tournaments and his offerings in PL? I don't think so. The reaction was the same for when soulkey lost to dear. you guys don't like protoss we get it but you said the same shit about a lot of other protoss players while they did there thing which was winning.
In terms of entertainment and the current state of the game. There aren't that many players as entertaining as this guy. He delivers the goods.
Really? I'd say Dear, Maru, Taeja, JD, bomber, polt, Life, Soulkey, hell, half of the rest of the top 20 WCS are easily as entertaining, if not more. But maybe that's because I prefer drawn out games that are determined by skill and multitasking, not predetermined by weird strats and scouting and whether JD practiced against some weird unit comp.
On November 23 2013 01:53 Guileful wrote: It's just he's not entertaining to watch and low on fans, even after WCS
low on fans? Were you expecting for him to get as many fans as jaedong has over the course of his entire career in only a few tournaments and his offerings in PL? I don't think so. The reaction was the same for when soulkey lost to dear. you guys don't like protoss we get it but you said the same shit about a lot of other protoss players while they did there thing which was winning.
In terms of entertainment and the current state of the game. There aren't that many players as entertaining as this guy. He delivers the goods.
That's bullshit. I dislike protoss in general, including Dear, but I would be an absolute idiot to ignore Dear's flawless defenses, crisp macro and multitasking, and amazing engagements / tactics.
Stop trying to generalize the community as just hating protoss. Nobody hates sOs - he's just not very impressive in his play compared to the rest of blizzcon. My reaction to soulkey being beaten by dear was, "oh well, dear played better".
My reaction to sOs - JD was "fucking really man? _sOs_ is the global champion after that shit final?"
I feel like what was missing is not so much a "storyline" but some background and history with sOs. All I know about him from pro league is that he is an innovative protoss player. Me and Jaedong though, we go way back... like back in the day. Ok not really but you know what I mean. Hopefully we'll see more great play from the likes of sOs and Dear but unfortunately in SC2 players seem to fall off the map pretty quickly.
On November 22 2013 19:55 Random_0 wrote: What sOs needs is sick nickname, something that makes people remember his achievements and crystallize his play style in their minds.
Henceforth he shall be known as...
Professor S
(because he gets into people's heads and controls then)
I actually never watched the last day of the finals, which is what I'm doing right now, and man crowd is cold to sOs after he beats Bomber. He basically asks them for cheers, and gets none. When he was asked about who he wants to play, his "vs. Zerg" comment yielded more cheers. Everyone was biased. sOs basically took out all these elite prolific nerds out from the shadow. But from now on he will have higher expectations, and as was seen from his interview and during game 1 vs. Bomber, his nerves did affect him negatively (i.e., x2 templar archives, sloppy play).
Because his wins aren't through astounding micro or amazing mechanics. They're just weird. That's all. He does weird stuff and wins, in a freaking inconsistent manner (winning blizzcon after being completely absent post season 1? Give me a break).
SC2 is not an apm demo, it is a strategy game. Winning by outthinking your opponent, mindgaming him, tricking him, etc. is just as valid as outmacroing or outmicroing him. This goes all the way back to BoxeR using "weird" strat after weird strat to fool his opponents (some of whom, like YellOw, had arguably superior mechanics, especially when it came to macro).
Bizarrely, only foreigners seem to have this idiotic "the only legitimate wins are those that come from superior mechanics" perspective, despite most foreigners having truly terrible mechanics. In Korea, where stellar mechanics are much more the norm, strategic play tends to get more respect.
As for sOs, my favorite thing about his win is that this'll be the last time we have to deal with him being seen as an "unheralded" player or a "faceless korean." He's a world champion, and every match he goes into from now on, people are going to know who he is and there will be fans rooting for him.
On November 22 2013 18:24 Aeromi wrote: sOs is just a casual player according WJS coach.
i would not doubt it, his actual ingame skill is far behind other top players IMO, but he plays smart and is able to win tournaments because of this.
Well, this is just wrong. His in game skill, mechanics, etc. are right there with Rain and Dear, and pretty much better or as good as everyone else's. Watch any of his pvps. He is always a half step, half probe, half pylon ahead of his opponent. His mechanics in the early game of pvp are perfect. His mechanics in the other match up are better than pretty much everyone other than probably Rain and Dear and probably Parting. Somehow sOs got pigeonholed as just a wonky player, which is an incomplete description of him.
Because his wins aren't through astounding micro or amazing mechanics. They're just weird. That's all. He does weird stuff and wins, in a freaking inconsistent manner (winning blizzcon after being completely absent post season 1? Give me a break).
SC2 is not an apm demo, it is a strategy game. Winning by outthinking your opponent, mindgaming him, tricking him, etc. is just as valid as outmacroing or outmicroing him. This goes all the way back to BoxeR using "weird" strat after weird strat to fool his opponents (some of whom, like YellOw, had arguably superior mechanics, especially when it came to macro).
Bizarrely, only foreigners seem to have this idiotic "the only legitimate wins are those that come from superior mechanics" perspective, despite most foreigners having truly terrible mechanics. In Korea, where stellar mechanics are much more the norm, strategic play tends to get more respect.
As for sOs, my favorite thing about his win is that this'll be the last time we have to deal with him being seen as an "unheralded" player or a "faceless korean." He's a world champion, and every match he goes into from now on, people are going to know who he is and there will be fans rooting for him.
Pretty much this. I like sOs for actually outplaying the player, not his actions.
By sheer virtue of the fact that so many people are disrespecting sOs (now behind more subtle veils such as 'not entertaining', 'macro may not favour him') even on THIS thread I will cheer on him MASSIVELY @ redbull battlegrounds. Winning is the best way to silence haters.
I think the significance of sOs's "weird" or "cheesy" play is overstated. Yeah, he did cannon rushes against Jaedong and proxy oracles against Terrans but there were only a few wins where those made a big difference, and in others they just put him behind. Watch his game 1 against Jaedong--his cannon rush failed badly, but he held on against overwhelming odds in the midgame with great control and took advantage of Jaedong's passivity in the lategame to crush him. He won that game DESPITE his gimmicky opening, not BECAUSE of it. Heck, the game where he succeeded with the biggest "mind game" against Jaedong--hiding a base on Whirlwind--was the only game he LOST.
There's a little bit of a double standard here with Protoss. When Mvp cheesed against opponents--Squirtle, anyone?--he was called a genius who would do anything it would take to win and would always pick the right builds. When sOs does a few cheeses suddenly he's an unworthy champion? That's silly.
I wasn't super excited when sOs won Blizzcon but he does possess certain qualities that could make him one of the 'greatest of all time.' Hopefully, Blizzcon turns out to be the first of many for him. We need more Mvp legacies in SC2!
On November 22 2013 19:00 CutTheEnemy wrote: Caster Bias.
Consider the Blizzcon finals- the casters sang the song of the Tyrant, and followed his story. sOs was his latest hurdle. How could sOs by a hyped player if he was not hyped?
What? You mean Jaedong was not playing the finals vs the AI?
Not like we didn't know the caster's failure beforehand. Reoccurring themes man.
Oh i know but the Blizzcon finals were a new low in that aspect imo. If we didn't have observers it would be just focus on jaedongs base when suddenly a protoss army walking into it and thinking "oh yea, this is not a single player game".
On November 23 2013 04:19 Yakikorosu wrote: I think the significance of sOs's "weird" or "cheesy" play is overstated. Yeah, he did cannon rushes against Jaedong and proxy oracles against Terrans but there were only a few wins where those made a big difference, and in others they just put him behind. Watch his game 1 against Jaedong--his cannon rush failed badly, but he held on against overwhelming odds in the midgame with great control and took advantage of Jaedong's passivity in the lategame to crush him. He won that game DESPITE his gimmicky opening, not BECAUSE of it. Heck, the game where he succeeded with the biggest "mind game" against Jaedong--hiding a base on Whirlwind--was the only game he LOST.
There's a little bit of a double standard here with Protoss. When Mvp cheesed against opponents--Squirtle, anyone?--he was called a genius who would do anything it would take to win and would always pick the right builds. When sOs does a few cheeses suddenly he's an unworthy champion? That's silly.
Haven't you heard? When a Protoss uses tricky plays or plays aggressively in the early game he's a dirty cheeser or gimmicky, if he executes a midgame timing push he's boring or an example of Protoss being OP/imba, and if he focuses on defending well and playing a macro game to get a strong lategame army he's a goddamn turtler. You don't even really have to watch the games to know how the Toss haters will be reacting in LR threads--just check the gamelength and whether the toss won, and you'll have a solid idea of how the Protoss haters will be whining.
As a Zerg player and huge Jaedong fan, I was sad to see sOs win, but I gotta respect the preparation and mind games that SOS put on. He played to win, by any means necessary and thus earned his victory. Its weird that he's getting so much hate in this thread. If MVP had been in sOs's place and pulled similar stunts he'd have been hyped as a brilliant tactitician and Bo5+ player who is a true champion instead of written off as gimmicky.
Because his wins aren't through astounding micro or amazing mechanics. They're just weird. That's all. He does weird stuff and wins, in a freaking inconsistent manner (winning blizzcon after being completely absent post season 1? Give me a break).
Bizarrely, only foreigners seem to have this idiotic "the only legitimate wins are those that come from superior mechanics" perspective, despite most foreigners having truly terrible mechanics. In Korea, where stellar mechanics are much more the norm, strategic play tends to get more respect.
I think this comes from Brood War, all the "strategic" players left to play poker, leaving only mechanics-bros.
On November 22 2013 18:24 Aeromi wrote: sOs is just a casual player according WJS coach.
i would not doubt it, his actual ingame skill is far behind other top players IMO, but he plays smart and is able to win tournaments because of this.
Well, this is just wrong. His in game skill, mechanics, etc. are right there with Rain and Dear, and pretty much better or as good as everyone else's. Watch any of his pvps. He is always a half step, half probe, half pylon ahead of his opponent. His mechanics in the early game of pvp are perfect. His mechanics in the other match up are better than pretty much everyone other than probably Rain and Dear and probably Parting. Somehow sOs got pigeonholed as just a wonky player, which is an incomplete description of him.
Oh yeah and he totally outmacroed Liquid'Hero so badly that Hero was trying to all-in him every game, but that was on the side stream so no one saw it.
Whoa the double standard in this thread, what the hell, so when MC all-ins every single game for a few months instead of playing Macro beyond 2/3 base he's "a boss" even though it actually became stale and predictable, when sOs brings a unique build every single game of every single series to a single tournament which spans more than one day he's shit and not entertaining? Not to mention that sOs beat macro monsters like bomber and hero at their own game any ways. Boxer would be ashamed. Hell, I'm sure if these fans watched Boxer's play back in the day where he always tried new things to impress the fans they would call his play gimmicky and "not skilled" any ways, pathetic.
On November 23 2013 01:48 Ctone23 wrote: lmao at people trying to diminish sOs skill and his accomplishment. 1st place at the global finals speaks for itself.
How can you quantify an incredible stupid statement like " dear is a true protoss and sOs is just lucky and does weird builds"
Give me a break.
There exists a mentality that only "macro games" are real games, not mindgames and weird strategies. There are many people who would rather have a mindless player who just hones mechanics rather than a player who thinks and plans out ways to catch the opponent off guard and make them uncomfortable.
In the end, you play to win, not play to get 4 bases and achieve a mineral income > 2k per minute.
Sure, he plays to win with cheese and weirdness. I did not say for a moment that he has no right to cheese, or that players should play for things other than winning.
I just said I don't find such wins impressive or entertaining, and that they aren't the mark of a champion like MVP (who occasionally does use cheese/weird builds, but not all the time and not as a replacement for mechanics/micro/tactics).
I suppose you prefer shitty games you can catch on silver NA to intense micro battles between players like Maru and Dear. Makes perfect sense to me.
Mvp won his 4th GSL with an 11/11 against Squirtle. You also compare sOs' play to NA Silver? You don't seem to understand Starcraft 2. Watch a few more games my friend
On November 23 2013 03:49 TaNaa wrote: I actually never watched the last day of the finals, which is what I'm doing right now, and man crowd is cold to sOs after he beats Bomber. He basically asks them for cheers, and gets none. When he was asked about who he wants to play, his "vs. Zerg" comment yielded more cheers. Everyone was biased. sOs basically took out all these elite prolific nerds out from the shadow. But from now on he will have higher expectations, and as was seen from his interview and during game 1 vs. Bomber, his nerves did affect him negatively (i.e., x2 templar archives, sloppy play).
That's why I'm glad he won. sOs was probably one of the biggest underdog stories out there in terms of fan support.
On November 22 2013 18:52 Waxangel wrote: A korean is either a champion or a clown, it seems so hard them to gain popularity otherwise (a player like bomber is rarity!)
HEY bomber won an mlg one time or something
And he said after winning season 2 that mines was not based on luck, because it requires skill for the zerg not to die to it. If that's not beeing a clown ... :D
On November 23 2013 01:48 Ctone23 wrote: lmao at people trying to diminish sOs skill and his accomplishment. 1st place at the global finals speaks for itself.
How can you quantify an incredible stupid statement like " dear is a true protoss and sOs is just lucky and does weird builds"
Give me a break.
On November 23 2013 03:26 chairmobile wrote:
On November 22 2013 20:22 Zealously wrote:
On November 22 2013 19:59 chairmobile wrote: Because his wins aren't through astounding micro or amazing mechanics. They're just weird. That's all. He does weird stuff and wins, in a freaking inconsistent manner (winning blizzcon after being completely absent post season 1? Give me a break).
I'm really not impressed by crossing your fingers and hoping your opponent doesn't look in the right place. Cannon rushes can be executed by silver league players for christ's sake.
Dear, on the other hand, shows people what a truly skilled Protoss looks like. sOs pales in comparison.
No, all that can be executed by silver league players are unsubstantiated claims like yours and whining about "cheese". The only way someone would think sOs wins through crossing his fingers is by not understanding his brilliance.
Wow, nice substantiated claim there. You call me a whiner, call sOs a genius, and declare victory.
I see a lot of evidence and reasoning and logic there, bro. Excellent argumentation!
There exists a mentality that only "macro games" are real games, not mindgames and weird strategies. There are many people who would rather have a mindless player who just hones mechanics rather than a player who thinks and plans out ways to catch the opponent off guard and make them uncomfortable.
In the end, you play to win, not play to get 4 bases and achieve a mineral income > 2k per minute.
Sure, he plays to win with cheese and weirdness. I did not say for a moment that he has no right to cheese, or that players should play for things other than winning.
I just said I don't find such wins impressive or entertaining, and that they aren't the mark of a champion like MVP (who occasionally does use cheese/weird builds, but not all the time and not as a replacement for mechanics/micro/tactics).
I suppose you prefer shitty games you can catch on silver NA to intense micro battles between players like Maru and Dear. Makes perfect sense to me.
You sound like your in love with jaedong and are crushed that he got beat by a toss, pretty badly at that.
Anyway, I would like to refute your claim of "cheese". Cannon rushing a zerg is not ccheese. I'm pretty sure you never watched wol in 2012/2013 (early) so I'll explain some things to you. Most of the zvp at this time revolved around ffe (forge first) and 14 pool before hatch openings. The reason was simple: forge first allowed a protoss to defend against early ling openings (which were designed to keep protons honest instead of them going nexus fist), while pool before hatch became the norm to more easily hold off canon rushes which were used to prevent a zerg from being able to 3 hatch before pool every game with no worries. Now, eventually towards the end of wol toss stared doing nexus first or die most of the time because they could never beat z on even term and zerg figured out how to 3 hatch anyways (just had to be vigilant and build second hatch at 3rd and then deal with canons at 2nd). This trend naturally continued into hots. It became so normal that every game. Played out 3 hatch vs nexus first. (slightly oversimplification, but you get the point, or maybe you don't because you seem dumb as shit)
Now, what sos did vs jaedong was brilliant. He re-winded the meta and canon rushed to keep jaedong honest. Jaedong wasn't prepared for this, and thus it put him in disadvantages position because he didn't react properly. If he had gone 14 pool before hatch, he would've been on even footing. But he didn't, and sos took advantage of that to mess up jaedong game plan and then play out his advantage. That'd why it was brilliant, and not cheesy at all. People calling that cheese is just ladder hate. It has a genuine place vs z.
That substantiated enough for you? (btw that goes for everyone saying canons were cheesy, just ignore the dumb as shit part, that's for chair only)
Edit: fucking mobile adding random words and letters....
I don't understand why the bandwagoners are hopping on the sOs train right now. So, he was the best player for a weekend... so what? He's been a great player for a while now... He was the #2 protoss in the last season of proleague (behind Rain), and the #2 player on WJS (behind Soulkey). In the last 3 GSL/OSL (WCS Korea Seasons 1-3) tournaments, from oldest to newest, he finished: top 4, top 24, top 12. He's always been a top-end protoss player, so why now? You should have been his fan before, or not at all; stop being fickle. What you SHOULD like sOs for, is how he continued to revolutionize the pvz matchup prior to the Blizzcon WCS world final.
His series against Jaedong at Blizzcon was NOT amazing or inspiring. What he did was out-think Jaedong, the same way MVP out-thinks his opponents in finals. He chose the right order of builds on the correct maps, and won the tournament. Yes, it was smart play, but he's always been this good. Why does it take winning a tournament for people to recognize top-level players? Answer: Fair-weather fickle fans only watch the final and ignore everything leading up to it. Why? Because they only want to jump on the bandwagon of the winner, and drop him when he loses the next tournament for the next new winner...
Please, just pick a player (or players) and stick with them through the highs and lows.
Although I have been playing protoss as of late and, yes, sOs is champion, the amount of respect I have for him is minimal. I just can't really support him after the series against JD
Game 1: Alright i will admit it was impressive because he should have died so OK at least he gets some respect Game 2: This game just hurt my head. Cannon rush into phoenix with just constantly walking zealots into the main? It just looked disgusting IMO Game 3: Hidden base but JD still wins? That just shows weakness. Game 4: Immortal timing? I can understand throwing that one in but its not gonna give you a lot of respect. Game 5: Macro win....fine but at this point he was in JD head....nevertheless respect was gained.
Overall if it weren't for that second game I probably would have given sOs a pretty decent amount of respect, but I must ask did he really deserve to be champion? I think not.
On November 23 2013 06:41 invisigoat wrote: Although I have been playing protoss as of late and, yes, sOs is champion, the amount of respect I have for him is minimal. I just can't really support him after the series against JD
Game 1: Alright i will admit it was impressive because he should have died so OK at least he gets some respect Game 2: This game just hurt my head. Cannon rush into phoenix with just constantly walking zealots into the main? It just looked disgusting IMO Game 3: Hidden base but JD still wins? That just shows weakness. Game 4: Immortal timing? I can understand throwing that one in but its not gonna give you a lot of respect. Game 5: Macro win....fine but at this point he was in JD head....nevertheless respect was gained.
Overall if it weren't for that second game I probably would have given sOs a pretty decent amount of respect, but I must ask did he really deserve to be champion? I think not.
Games cannot be summed up like that. It is about so many little choices and things sOs did. He dictated the entire series. Many moments of clutch holds, great micro and unexpected moves. Marginalizing the series by summarizing a few events in each game into a 10 word description isn't a good way to explain sOs or his games.
Overall if it weren't for that second game I probably would have given sOs a pretty decent amount of respect, but I must ask did he really deserve to be champion? I think not.
Yes. Yes he did. He stepped over the bodies of a lot of excellent players to get to the finals and trashed Jaedong (who just fell apart in the last games) 4:1 with some excellent builds and choices. Mission accomplished.
the whole discussion about sos and whether he is as great a player as his blizzcon title indicates is soooo hypocritical. mvp, due to his wrist problems, was way outmatched in his 2012 s2 gsl run in terms of micro and macro. but he was strategically superior to his opposition and used this advantage to basically cheese out protoss after protoss. the parallels to sos are mind-boggling. and guess what? this very title run is what finally made mvp immortal and elevated fan worship to a level never seen before. so whats the difference? is it simply the fact that mvp was already a fan favorite and had already won titles beforehand?
On November 23 2013 06:48 Black Gun wrote: the whole discussion about sos and whether he is as great a player as his blizzcon title indicates is soooo hypocritical. mvp, due to his wrist problems, was way outmatched in his 2012 s2 gsl run in terms of micro and macro. but he was strategically superior to his opposition and used this advantage to basically cheese out protoss after protoss. the parallels to sos are mind-boggling. and guess what? this very title run is what finally made mvp immortal and elevated fan worship to a level never seen before. so whats the difference? is it simply the fact that mvp was already a fan favorite and had already won titles beforehand?
Your last sentence is why people love Mvp. He had already proven that he was a macro/micro/engagement beast, so when his wrists started to die, and he still found a way to win people are like he is a genius. He is physically in bad shape and he still wins through the other aspect of the game thats amazing. However, people(not me) are not happy that sos won through pure strategy because he hasn't shown that he can dominate players with straight up macro/micro/multitask/awesome engagements, but instead just think of strategies that mess up his opponent.
So now he is forever tainted as a cheeser and weird builds guy even if he plays macro games and win. I'm sure people are jsut gonna be like well he can be super greedy because people expect weird crap when playing this guy, but they dont understand thats part of being a good player, that you can play all styles and people need to take that into account.
Johan Lucchesi @NaNiwaSC2 4h people saying sos dont have fans because hes not playing interesting LawL. hes the most innovative player in sc2 by far sad..
On November 23 2013 06:41 invisigoat wrote: Although I have been playing protoss as of late and, yes, sOs is champion, the amount of respect I have for him is minimal. I just can't really support him after the series against JD
Game 1: Alright i will admit it was impressive because he should have died so OK at least he gets some respect Game 2: This game just hurt my head. Cannon rush into phoenix with just constantly walking zealots into the main? It just looked disgusting IMO Game 3: Hidden base but JD still wins? That just shows weakness. Game 4: Immortal timing? I can understand throwing that one in but its not gonna give you a lot of respect. Game 5: Macro win....fine but at this point he was in JD head....nevertheless respect was gained.
Overall if it weren't for that second game I probably would have given sOs a pretty decent amount of respect, but I must ask did he really deserve to be champion? I think not.
I guess if you look at it that way without taking into account the previous matches that each player had in that tournament, then yeah, sOs looks pretty bad.
But if you look at how much cheese and off-the-wall play JD threw in against his previous opponents that tournament, sOs probably saw that JD was playing with a very abusive style, and decided to get the jump on him by making him eat his own pie.
If you look at it in this way, the win by sOs was hilariously ironic and extremely well played.
On November 23 2013 06:48 Black Gun wrote: the whole discussion about sos and whether he is as great a player as his blizzcon title indicates is soooo hypocritical. mvp, due to his wrist problems, was way outmatched in his 2012 s2 gsl run in terms of micro and macro. but he was strategically superior to his opposition and used this advantage to basically cheese out protoss after protoss. the parallels to sos are mind-boggling. and guess what? this very title run is what finally made mvp immortal and elevated fan worship to a level never seen before. so whats the difference? is it simply the fact that mvp was already a fan favorite and had already won titles beforehand?
Mvp is Terran, sOs is Protoss. Oversimplifying aside, I do feel that the Protoss is the race that relies most on composition. Take game 2 from the finals for instance, where he showed this Zealot + Phoenix composition. Roach/Hydra or Infestors would completely demolish this composition, but because JD didn't have any of those units there was completely nothing he could do anymore except die slowly. With T and Z, it feels more like it isn't over because the other player could set up an amazing engagement and gets on top again, while P seems to do this a lot less relying more on composition to either win or lose outright. There are exceptions like Dear and Rain who just play super solid, and sOs is definitely capable of this as well but it wasn't that which was most apparent.
From a Zerg perspective: Game 1 - JD had a massive bank but he couldn't engage and walk up a ramp into sOs's base because Protoss Game 2 was incredibly frustrating as from the start it felt like JD was at the mercy of protoss mechanics. If he dedicated to killing the cannons by building roaches he could just get flattened by void rays, if he made zerglings he would get killed by zealots, if he made mutalisks he would get killed by phoenix, and because of those cannons there was no real way for him to get to infestors. Great plan by sOs, but it didn't make people respect his play. Game 3 - Even with hidden base JD takes this Game 4 - Immortal all-in, and it so happened to be a composition win again Game 5 - Now this game was actually just a straight up win (proving he is capable of this) but by this point the "damage" was done.
The situations of game 1, 2 and 4 couldn't have happened if JD played a zerg or terran. There's no way for either to hide a few key units that suddenly changes the game if you don't have anything against them and it's never THAT hard to walk up a ramp against either. Warp-in is Protoss only as well. As sOs is a protoss player playing to win I feel he maximized on the potential of the race and played really well, but he appeals more to a thinking (wo)man than a casual viewer. From a strategy standpoint it's beautiful and what he does is definitely appreciated, but JD micro'ing his zerglings to kill a robo bay or coming in with a V-wing or spreading like crazy are instant-WOW moments. I'll put it like this: my mom who knows nothing of starcraft watched the final moments of JD vs Dear as well and she instantly appreciated how smart it was what JD did after I explained what he did, but I doubt "sOs juist built the better units" invokes the same reaction.
It's a direct consequence of the Protoss race I guess, sOs played his games out brilliantly to win the finals and he has my respect for that. He deserved to win that day, but I completely do not have the feeling that he can repeat his success many times over. When Innovation won, he won with mechanical skill and you know he could kill anyone with that. When Maru won, he won with his micro (and preparation!) and you know he could kill anyone with that (well, except Dear, but that was later). When Dear won, it seemed like he was the most solid player ever. With Mvp, people hated his guts during the run and shortly after that as well, but the incredible finals, the story of a broken man and him winning 4 titles eclipsed that. I think what definitely cemented him as a fan favourite was his S4 run though, taking out zergs and Rain in epic fashion before delivering yet another great final.
As a fan, I found sOs winning very inconvenient and unsatisfying. Fortunately I had mostly forgotten about him until you had to come along and write this article.
If we're going to give him attention, let's make him into a villain for cheesing out the more deserving player. Remember, cannon rushing is only okay for foreigners.
On November 23 2013 01:53 Guileful wrote: It's just he's not entertaining to watch and low on fans, even after WCS
low on fans? Were you expecting for him to get as many fans as jaedong has over the course of his entire career in only a few tournaments and his offerings in PL? I don't think so. The reaction was the same for when soulkey lost to dear. you guys don't like protoss we get it but you said the same shit about a lot of other protoss players while they did there thing which was winning.
In terms of entertainment and the current state of the game. There aren't that many players as entertaining as this guy. He delivers the goods.
That's bullshit. I dislike protoss in general, including Dear, but I would be an absolute idiot to ignore Dear's flawless defenses, crisp macro and multitasking, and amazing engagements / tactics.
Stop trying to generalize the community as just hating protoss. Nobody hates sOs - he's just not very impressive in his play compared to the rest of blizzcon. My reaction to soulkey being beaten by dear was, "oh well, dear played better".
My reaction to sOs - JD was "fucking really man? _sOs_ is the global champion after that shit final?"
Not bullshit at all you know why I can say that? Because I was there in the crowd at the WCS Finals in Toronto and the crowd response was practically the same. Generalizing? Do you read the forums let alone go to events? Because you don't fool me.
On November 23 2013 08:24 laerteis wrote: As a fan, I found sOs winning very inconvenient and unsatisfying. Fortunately I had mostly forgotten about him until you had to come along and write this article.
If we're going to give him attention, let's make him into a villain for cheesing out the more deserving player. Remember, cannon rushing is only okay for foreigners.
well, imho its too early to assess sOs's (oO) potential. back in broodwar, there was this accomplished and loved fan favorite bisu who got cheesed out of a semifinals by a young kid. the young kid was instantly booed and hated. people thought he would never be able to play solid macro games or be anything special. people thought he would remain a one-hit wonder.
now, about 6 years later, this young kid, flash, is known as god, the best bw player of all times and feared in particular for his extremely strong macro games....
i do not particularly like sOs, i only give him very modest amounts of credit for his blizzcon title and i do not think that he will once be known as one of the greats of sc2 history. but at the same time, i wouldnt write him off so quickly. and yes, giving him so little credit does feel hypocritical....
I am not sure if sOs wil win this or not...he most certainly has the potential...none the less he has already solidified his place in the pantheon of great sc2 players... I mean noone he faced at Blizzcon could take more than one map off him...
On November 23 2013 10:16 aZealot wrote: sOs and JD are not the point the OP is making though, I think.
Rather, the failure that was the overall 2013 WCS format in telling a year long story.
It's not just the format though. In this day and age and this game it is very hard to win these tournaments consistently. That's why a lot of us say on any given Sunday when it comes events and players need to catch on fire. They really aren't hard to predict once you've seen a guy play several games.
Jaedong is by far my favorite SC2 player, and them when this sOs guys comes up, i'm like "psh, Jaedong took down dear, sOs prepare to die, the tyrant is getting his trophy!"
But sOs surprised me, like really surprised me on how well he out played Jaedong, and although i am not afan of sOs and still mad that he won and not Jaedong, must give credit where credit is do.
In any case, here we are. sOs stands as the WCS 2013 champion, and has forced StarCraft 2 fans around to give him their respect.
It's times like these that I...that I...
The writer is Stuchio you say?
Jaekong is Jaekong, and while it hurts to see him choke miserably in the finals/semis all the time, there is not much you can do about it. And no, Jaekong is not the hero of the story here. Because he choked in finals :3
Finally! A proper write-up for the Blizzcon champion. I thought it was really a slap to the face of sOs when after he won the whole thing the conclusion was there was no best in the world. I kept wondering to myself if that article would still have been written if Jaedong won. Not saying that article didn't have good points, but it would have been better if this article came before that one.
Sure macro play is impressive, but that's merely one aspect of the game. Normally, people know how to deal with "cheese". Jaedong just couldn't handle the multitude of mind games and tactics that sOs put against him. A player the caliber of Jaedong. His so-called "gimmicky play" (what I call strategy) is just a different aspect of the game that people tend to overlook. If everyone plays the same way, how can you beat someone else? Wait for them to make a mistake? sOs forces his opponents to make mistakes, and wins that way rather than trying to beat others with mechanics.
This ain't broodwar, mechanics isn't THAT necessary. Look where Innovation is now.
I will pick a player with 200-300ish APM with full repertoire of builds/composition/mindgames over a 400ish APM monster with only a SINGLE build order anyday everyday.
Because his wins aren't through astounding micro or amazing mechanics. They're just weird. That's all. He does weird stuff and wins, in a freaking inconsistent manner (winning blizzcon after being completely absent post season 1? Give me a break).
SC2 is not an apm demo, it is a strategy game. Winning by outthinking your opponent, mindgaming him, tricking him, etc. is just as valid as outmacroing or outmicroing him. This goes all the way back to BoxeR using "weird" strat after weird strat to fool his opponents (some of whom, like YellOw, had arguably superior mechanics, especially when it came to macro).
Bizarrely, only foreigners seem to have this idiotic "the only legitimate wins are those that come from superior mechanics" perspective, despite most foreigners having truly terrible mechanics. In Korea, where stellar mechanics are much more the norm, strategic play tends to get more respect.
As for sOs, my favorite thing about his win is that this'll be the last time we have to deal with him being seen as an "unheralded" player or a "faceless korean." He's a world champion, and every match he goes into from now on, people are going to know who he is and there will be fans rooting for him.
I think that's because foreigners, with their poorer mechanics often try and fail to cheese and/or mindgame Koreans and due to that they consider proper macro games where mechanics shine, to be the only legit way to play.
But as you said, in Korea the players are so mechanically apt that, they need other ways to distinguish themselves. Some become outliners in terms of mechanics; like DRG or Innovation, being straight up faster, crisper and more precise, some focus on micro and control to pick apart and obliterate their opponents, like Maru, Life, PartinG, and some few players just try to always be on the cutting edge of innovation and out think their opponents, like NesTea of old and now sOs.
Thing is all those play styles are viable, but only once you reach the highest level of play. A guy that can mind game one of the strongest mechanical players in the world deserves just as much recognition as a guy that can dance circles around him with micro.
Ok, I went off topic a lot with that but, again, much respect for sOs, I hope we see good news regarding his team Woongjin and I hope we get to see him compete in more often as well. He is very entertaining and, unfortunately people fail to notice he is not just a 1 trick pony. I think it was at DH Bucharest, he played a crazy good long macro game vs JD himself on WW and nearly won, he definitely has strong mechanics.
On November 23 2013 10:16 aZealot wrote: sOs and JD are not the point the OP is making though, I think.
Rather, the failure that was the overall 2013 WCS format in telling a year long story.
How is this the fault of the WCS format? The only stories that would actually be a year-long would have been: Innovation coming back and winning Blizzcon after his minor slump compared to the beginning of 2013 where he looked unbeatable; and JaeDong winning who would have come a long way from getting destroyed in WCS AM S1 by Theognis (something a lot of people don't remember lol).
On November 23 2013 10:16 aZealot wrote: sOs and JD are not the point the OP is making though, I think.
Rather, the failure that was the overall 2013 WCS format in telling a year long story.
How is this the fault of the WCS format? The only stories that would actually be a year-long would have been: Innovation coming back and winning Blizzcon after his minor slump compared to the beginning of 2013 where he looked unbeatable; and JaeDong winning who would have come a long way from getting destroyed in WCS AM S1 by Theognis (something a lot of people don't remember lol).
While I did argue against him as well, but it's actually a combination of things. The current format certainly doesn't help transcend the players. Who do I say this? Because you have everyone playing in different qualifiers meaning they rarely get to play one another and even then you still only have a few kicks at the can (something I've used over and over again to drill it through people's heads). So in terms of exposure. This system sucks. In terms of meaningful games. This system is an abomination. We have to get rid of thee yee olde group stages and get all the players as long as they meet a certain criteria to not only get exposure but get to compete on a global scale and play against the best of the best. Meaning more games. They will still get to practice but they will all get to play in more meaningful games and build story lines with each individual player. Think of it as Pro League but with every player. Take a model like DH or MLG in terms of tours and think of it as one big tour. With all the tournaments happening and how many players can win yes it's next to impossible to tell a linear story that has natural flow, but there are ways to get rid of the jagged edges and make it flow a little more naturally. This is a premise I explored in vivid detail.
On November 23 2013 11:00 Roboroadkill wrote: Jaedong is by far my favorite SC2 player, and them when this sOs guys comes up, i'm like "psh, Jaedong took down dear, sOs prepare to die, the tyrant is getting his trophy!"
But sOs surprised me, like really surprised me on how well he out played Jaedong, and although i am not afan of sOs and still mad that he won and not Jaedong, must give credit where credit is do.
Great Job sOs.
This rage you guys speak of I believe is misdirected. I consider myself a Jaedong fan as well, but when I look at the ways he loses maps it is maddening because we can pin point the decisions that make you go, "What the hell does he think he's doing." It's funny because there was another EG player you'd question all the time when it came to their star sense and decision-making ability. Anyway, that tournament came full circle for Jaedong. HyperX, yep he did beat MC but in the end his struggles against Protoss continue. I liked my analogy of climbing K2 though and that's what was in front of him at Blizzcon. He made it to the peak by beating Dear, but that's not really the hard part considering it's only the halfway point (ro8). It's getting your ass safely down the mountain in the unpredictable weather. That's why not a lot of people make it out a live and that's what he was facing. Two Protoss players playing like behemoths kind of makes things difficult to win.
I think the problem with most of the naysayers here is that they watch mostly WCS NA, DH & Jaedong.
Theres no way sOs would be a simple cheeser, uninteresting, unsatisfying, gimmicky kind of player or a worse player if you watch starcraft in Korea for the last 12 months or so. Yes starleagues & proleague.
So yeah, after skills mattered, you guys talked about storytelling, hero and stuffs. I call bs
On November 23 2013 23:35 Arceus wrote: I think the problem with most of the naysayers here is that they watch mostly WCS NA, DH & Jaedong.
Theres no way sOs would be a simple cheeser, uninteresting, unsatisfying, gimmicky kind of player or a worse player if you watch starcraft in Korea for the last 12 months or so. Yes starleagues & proleague.
So yeah, after skills mattered, you guys talked about storytelling, hero and stuffs. I call bs
Exactly, this guy was a total beast in terms of execution, micro game planning, everything -- skills which were principally on display in Proleague. He was the best protoss for the first half / quarter of HoTS when Protoss were struggling in premier tournaments. After reading these comments and this article i went back and watched some of his games from earlier this year and the guy was simply ahead of his times. Doing things that were new and innovative (or gimmicky if you want to be negative). Now the meta has shifted and people go skytoss regularly, etc.
sOs actually played super standard many times, as far as builds go. But he refined little things and constantly denied scouting/intel from his opponent, allowing him to switch things up on a dime while at the same time scouting at crucial moments, as well as opening stargate which allows good map control and intel due to scouting the opponents base. He also put a huge priority on upgrades, almost always dropping double forge, or constantly chrono-boosting single forge for extremely potent timing attacks. There's many things he did extremely well besides "mind-games" and "cheese-tactics" that if you watch the games with an objective mind you will notice. He also handled the end-game engagements extremely well, positioning his army in tactical positions, and always knowing that a bad engagement will completely change the game. He never took a bad engagement, while constantly putting pressure on his opponent. I've gone back and watched his games many times and it's incredible play, I would recommend any of his series at blizzcon to anyone trying to learn Protoss against any matchup. Day9 also did a great series of dailies about sOs's play at blizzcon in all matchups and it's extremely informative and eye opening to the little things he did so well.
On November 23 2013 01:53 Guileful wrote: It's just he's not entertaining to watch and low on fans, even after WCS
low on fans? Were you expecting for him to get as many fans as jaedong has over the course of his entire career in only a few tournaments and his offerings in PL? I don't think so. The reaction was the same for when soulkey lost to dear. you guys don't like protoss we get it but you said the same shit about a lot of other protoss players while they did there thing which was winning.
In terms of entertainment and the current state of the game. There aren't that many players as entertaining as this guy. He delivers the goods.
.
Stop trying to generalize the community as just hating protoss. Nobody hates sOs - he's just not very impressive in his play compared to the rest of blizzcon. My reaction to soulkey being beaten by dear was, "oh well, dear played better".
My reaction to sOs - JD was "fucking really man? _sOs_ is the global champion after that shit final?"
first off, how is he not very impressive in his play when he absolutely annihilated everyone he played? All of them not good, but pretty much great players.
that "shit" final was an absolute stompage only dampened by the fact that he got surprised in the game he lost
I'm a huge fan of Jaedong but I don't mind sOs winning.
With what was said after the finals Incontrol telling everyone what sOs said backstage (if he wins Blizzcon, it's something he is going to tell his children) and also his answer regarding his win (about the value of the trophy and how it's worth more than other trophies, which was a bit funny but I might of understood it wrong), and how he acted, it was nice.
I do feel really bad for Jaedong though.
With Jaedong, I think he's shown to be consistent enough that if not now, definitely later. That's one of the reasons why I don't mind that sOs won.
Another thing, I thought it was incredible that Jaedong made it to the finals. I mean, he could have not made it to the finals and when I saw that he did made it to the finals, I was glad.
Making it into five finals is an incredible feat. It probably makes him the most consistent player of 2013 (Jaedong is one of the few players from the start and end of 2013 to consistently get far in almost every tournament he has played in) , and from that I'm optimistic for Jaedong in 2014.
chairmobile you are caught in your closeminded view of your own opinion, projecting it to the world, and telling your opinion is "the true opinion"... Yes it is actually. For you. All those players you sum up are all great to watch, but all 90% in the same way. Good macro, good micro, good multitasking. All those players do that. about all pros rely on those treats
You forget the fact its RTS genre made after real time "STRATEGY" sOs is by far the most strategic player in the whole active SC2 community, whether you like it or not, this is just the truth. All his sick mindgames you put off as cheese. Well trust me, when u go 10 canon rushes against jaedong being the silver player u are (presumable since u know how it works) you will loose 10 out of 10. His art is that he broke jaedongs mind and swept the pieces off the table into the trashbin. That is his playstyle, a style very few players can employ. That is why he is a great player.
And u clearly havent seen his games vs bomber or hero, who he also outplayed in macro games. Now be nice and quiet or go whine on the "jeadong is my hero" thread and stop acting troll on the sOs thread. Thanks
On November 22 2013 19:55 Random_0 wrote: What sOs needs is sick nickname, something that makes people remember his achievements and crystallize his play style in their minds.
Given his propensity for mindgames, I vote for "The Magician". :D
This is... actually really good.
I had something much weaker in mind, like a spin off of Bisu's old nickname: "the Revolutionist."
But sOs "The Magician" is both original and properly complimentary.
I respect sOs, and I actually loved the way he loved being on stage and tried to get the fans to cheer for him and chant his name. He's not only a great and innovative player, but he seems to get motivated by, rather than cave in under, the pressure of playing in front of big crowds, which is a great characteristic for a champion to have.
That being said, I have to admit the finals were a bit lackluster and disappointing. HOWEVER, everyone seems to keep blaming this on sOs playing cheesy tactics, but imo it was largely part because of Jaedong falling apart and simply losing in dumb and thus anticlimactic ways. I dont see why everyone keeps blaming sOs, it's not his fault that Jaedong played a couple of very weak games in that finals. In the very first game, sOs showed that he can still take on Jaedong in a long, drawn-out game after his cannonrush failed badly, but apart from the Whirlwind game no games ever got there because Jaedong wasnt strong enough to bring the games there; in three out of the five games, he just blundered and died.
Also, the caster bias was horrible. There were so many opportunities to actually make sOs winning much more exciting, but it was overshadowed by the obvious disappointment the casters' kept exhibiting at Jaedong losing. And this, in turn, had its effect on the crowd which refused to cheer for sOs and chant his name as they did with Jaedong, even after sOs personally asked them to cheer for him. I found it saddening that even after winning the crowd refused to indulge him and let him have his moment in the sun ;(
On November 26 2013 05:08 Kroneborge wrote: I really don't have much respect for sOS, cheesing to victory is no way to win IMO.
Please name one serious sport or competition (at the top level of said sport/competition) where the players make sure to play only to entertain fans that are impossible to please instead of playing with winning as the primary goal.
sOs knows what's important in Starcraft 2 on his level. It's not micro or macro, it's decision making, reading his opponent, but most of all, not letting your opponent read you. I feel this is sOs his strongest feat.
Well I can tell you that I am not a fan of sOs. I was at Red Bull Battlgrounds in NYC and was disgusted by the way that sOs acted on the stage. All of the players (mainly Parting and MC) were having a good time talking crap about each other but you could tell the were just joking. sOs on the other hand was just downright disrespectful. In the final series of Parting vs. sOs, Parting extended a hand before the match that sOs just walked away from. I am glad that he got his ass handed to him by Parting as he is the one who deserved it and sOs got all that disrespect shoved back in his face. I didn't know much about sOs before this event but I will definitely not be a fan of his in the future.
On November 26 2013 05:08 Kroneborge wrote: I really don't have much respect for sOS, cheesing to victory is no way to win IMO.
Please name one serious sport or competition (at the top level of said sport/competition) where the players make sure to play only to entertain fans that are impossible to please instead of playing with winning as the primary goal.
EPT
Woongjin_sOs was supposed to be the hero of this story, then WCS failed at those goals.![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Waxangel/redbullstuff/sossignsmall.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WjesfJ5.jpg)
