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On November 21 2013 02:13 VieuxSinge wrote:
I am in diamond league on EU (always been there^^) and started smurfing on NA servers.
I'm still in gold in NA with a 76% winratio after 50 games, facing other gold players that clearly have a diamond league level.
i have absolutely no idea how and when I will be promoted to platinium O_o
I found the US ladder harder as well. Plat had many players with master's macro and execution.
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Canada16217 Posts
On November 21 2013 03:00 foreign2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 19:56 TigerKarl wrote:
Sure it's getting harder. Who else is playing this dead game nowadays, besides the try hards?
User was warned for this post I am sorry guys, but he is right. In Fact i recognized that A LOT players are tryhards and copy everything progamers do. I have been myself a tryhard till i asked myself: do i enjoy this game anymore? the answer was no, so i quit sc2 with the new season. Blizzard has also speed up the entire process by messing up the league system. The result is that only "very good" players enjoy playing ladder anymore and everybody else is quitting this game.
tryhard has to be the stupidest term I've ever seen
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Ahhh I feel so much better after seeing this thread. I was high diamond for a spell and at the start of the new season I was placed into gold league >_<; ...It makes sense, though. I do recall a similar thing being the case with every game I've gotten into. When I first started playing Half Life 2 Deathmatch, being #1 in every room was a breeze, but after a while things got harder and harder. The players that stick with the game after it's not new anymore all become competent and the scrubs find a new game. Whelp... time to get more serious again I suppose XD
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On November 21 2013 02:14 TheSubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 00:27 Ctone23 wrote:On November 21 2013 00:25 TheSubtleArt wrote:
How is there no reward? If anything, a harder ladder means there is much more of a reward to improving now. Getting into diamond was incredibly easy, and hence meant almost nothing. Increasing the skill required to enter each league can now make it feel meaningful to hit plat / diamond / masters. Better than masters / high diamond being everybody who knows how to play, and every league below diamond consisting of casual players who have no idea what they're doing Diamond was NOT easy to get into during WoL. I'm just saying there isn't a lot of reward when you get demoted several times for no apparent reason, only to play really skilled opponents in GOLD league, haha, yea no reward there. Why not? Leagues are completely arbitrary anyway. If I'm playing skilled people in Gold, then it'll actually feel meaningful to jump to platinum, then diamond, then masters. If the skill required to get to the upper leagues is so low, how are they at all rewarding? Hitting diamond means a lot more now. The upper ends of a ladder should be really, really hard to reach anyway. Are you saying the Brood War ICCup ladder wasn't rewarding at all? Any former D+ player on ICCup (including myself) could breeze into masters in Sc2.
This has nothing to do with Brood War. First of all, Brood War ICCup ladder was completely different.
You can make an argument that any game is "arbitrary", so I don't understand what you mean by that. I'm just trying to give examples of how the current system can deflate the appetite to play the game itself. Look at all the people on this thread who give examples of how they got demoted, I just think it's an overall bad idea from Blizzard. We all understand the game is balanced out for the Professionals only, so why do they have to knock all of the fans out there who continue to play ladder? Just doesn't compute..
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On November 21 2013 02:07 cptjibberjabber wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 00:55 iggym wrote:On November 21 2013 00:48 ffadicted wrote:On November 21 2013 00:43 iggym wrote:On November 21 2013 00:29 Ignorant prodigy wrote:
the distribution is that way BECAUSE of mmr decay.. not because the countless number or people complaining have suddenly got bad at the game. No, it is because the bottom has dropped out of the ladder. My argument isn't that players have gotten worse — because that is absurd — but that they've gotten better on average. There is no doubt that MMR decay will cause some ladder deflation, but people spin it way, way, way too hard. It doesn't kick in until two weeks of inactivity, you drop about a league after four weeks of inactivity, and there has always been decay/reset if you take entire seasons off. Do you have numbers to support this though? For which part? The player base is smaller, and it makes sense that a higher proportion of people who have stopped playing were lower skilled. The decay info is straight out of Excalibur's post here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=429734 I just ran the numbers. 5/6th of all players are in gold and below. just 16.9% of the people are in platinum or higher. source: http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/5o6aq.png) 35% (bronze) +28.31% (silver) +19.79% (gold) = 83.1% 0.53%(GM) + 3.02% (mas) + 5.29% (dia) + 8.06% (plat) = 16.9% 100/16.9 = 5.9 times = 1/6th. then for verification: 1/6 = 0.167 0.167 * 5 = 83.33333333% well, !@#$%^&*. So no, it's not "ermahgerd there's no players!". The ladder is just fucked up, lol. edit: for reference, here are the intended ratio's: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Battle.net_Leagues![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/5o7x0.png)
Sc2ranks has a different criteria for measuing players than Bnet does, which means that Sc2ranks counts fewer active players than Bnet does.
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Welcome to the world of MMR decay, where you can play anything from your league to GM in the lower leagues. My NA account went from low masters to gold as I didn't play it for a while, and I still play people of my skill level in gold, but also poor actual gold players that didn't ask for that at all. It's stupid and I hope blizzard will remove it, but heh, that's how it is right know. Have fun losing 30% or more of your games against higher league players with low activity.
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there's no argument over "why" the ladder is the way it is..
if you'd just read what korona has been posting you'd realize he has actual data to back up MRR decay is the primary reason for the ladder issues.
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It's definitely harder than at the beginning of HOTS or at the end of WOL. I used to be platinum, close to diamond. Now I'm barely winning 50% of my games in Gold league, and I never play against someone with macro or micro that is significantly flawed, except people who admit they're trying a new race or build or something.
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Blizzard really messed things up with Ladder... Don't even know what kind of skill level I'm at anymore.
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I thought I was just playing poorly because I have been having a hard time keeping 50% winrate in Masters. But then again I have been playing poorly and need to step it up. ^^ Haha.
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On November 20 2013 20:36 graNite wrote:
They also made the master league so much smaller, from 20% when it was introduced to 2,5% now...
This. Masters was very easy to get to before the change.
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I won 14 of my last 45 games, but somehow the strength of my opponents has stayed the same, b.net keeps sending players slightly better than me. It's hard to cope with haha.
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47 Posts
I feel that i might face equal opponents 1/10 of my laddergames. Im high plat, dia last season. Now im facing all from goldplayers that are trolls and some that arent, and players like Taeja on theyre smurfaccounts on ladder (i knew i didnt face a real platplayer that one game and asked).
The players i play i feel vary to much, one day i might feel that im around high dia/low master level based on the plays i have (or rather the opponents i win over), and some days the loadingscreen tells me its vs a gold, and i get roflestomped. Dont know what to make off it all. I know im not good, but i would rather stop facing former X league players (higher than my current league) all the time. Ofc, it feels really awesome winning over former masterplayers, but still something dont feels right.
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On November 21 2013 03:54 Doc Brawler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 20:36 graNite wrote:
They also made the master league so much smaller, from 20% when it was introduced to 2,5% now... This. Masters was very easy to get to before the change.
Master league was never 20%. Originally, when Diamond was highest, all five leagues were 20%. Then they introduced Master league and it became the top ~2%. Much later they changed the sizes of Bronze and Silver.
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It really looks like Blizzard are shooting themselves in the foot. The majority of the remaining sc2 players are extremely competitive (why else play a game where anything else but 1v1 is almost unheard of). Now they got this ranking system based on this hidden mmr number which was all fine and dandy at the start. BUT now they've fucked around with it so much that nobody has any idea where they stand in terms of rank. Literally every reply in this thread confirms that. So basically, the majority of players who play for rank have no idea to tell whether they're improving...
The solution. Remove mmr. Put everyone on the same ladder and make people within 200 pts match eachother (ex 700 pt matches down to 500 and up to 900pts). This way everyone will easily know their rank and everything is transparent.
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On November 21 2013 04:15 Icapica wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 03:54 Doc Brawler wrote:On November 20 2013 20:36 graNite wrote:
They also made the master league so much smaller, from 20% when it was introduced to 2,5% now... This. Masters was very easy to get to before the change.
Masters was introduced at 2-3% of ladder population, it was never 20%.
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On November 21 2013 04:18 TRaFFiC wrote:
It really looks like Blizzard are shooting themselves in the foot. The majority of the remaining sc2 players are extremely competitive (why else play a game where anything else but 1v1 is almost unheard of). Now they got this ranking system based on this hidden mmr number which was all fine and dandy at the start. BUT now they've fucked around with it so much that nobody has any idea where they stand in terms of rank. Literally every reply in this thread confirms that. So basically, the majority of players who play for rank have no idea to tell whether they're improving...
The solution. Remove mmr. Put everyone on the same ladder and make people within 200 pts match eachother (ex 700 pt matches down to 500 and up to 900pts). This way everyone will easily know their rank and everything is transparent.
More like the opposite lol Remove points, display immediate and rolling MMR, that's true ranking.
And lower this ridiculous decay lol People don't get that much worse at the game that quickly lol
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I think it's because more people quit so we have less "baddies" in the lower leagues. If you check the ranks of the people that beat you, chances are they were 1-2 rank higher before. People did get better, but not to that extent, it's just the ranking arent as inflated.
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I have been Diamond/Platinum level random player for a long time, and have gone like 5 - 30 over the past couple of days. More upsetting than the record is most games seem to be completely one sided, and it seemed to come out of nowhere that I was just significantly worse than all the people I am playing.
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EPT
