The finalists for the Red Bull TLMC and the maps making up the map pool for the Red Bull Battle Grounds TLMC Qualifier are:
Blitzkrieg
by: neobowman
Graveside
by: eTcetRa
Habitation Station
by: Sidianthebard
Jungle Valley
by: Samro225am
New Polaris Rhapsody
by: Meerel
Shrieking Breeze
by: Gfire
Synapse
by: -NegativeZero-
The maps can all be found on Battle.net (all servers) by searching for the tag [TLMC] in the custom games section.
Congratulations to the mappers who had their maps selected (special congratulations to Samro225am who has had a map in the finals for the third time in a row!). The quality of submissions was extremely high and it was a very difficult job selecting this list.
Map Notes
Blitzkrieg - Spawns are top left and top right. - Large units (siege tanks, ultralisks, archons and thors) can't pass the shortest path between mains
Graveside - Spawns are top left and bottom right - Naturals are in base with a back door blocked by destructible rocks
Jungle Valley - Spawns are top left, top right, bottom right, bottom left (all spawns enabled) - Semi-island map, paths can be opened up once destructible rocks have been cleared
New Polaris Rhapsody - Spawns are top left and bottom right - Low ground floods with lava every 5 minutes killing anything remaining there (similar to WoL campaign) (includes creep tumors) - Warning/countdown for lava rise provided, lava rises half way up ramps
Shrieking Breeze - Spawns are top left, top right, bottom right, bottom left (all spawns enabled) - Map is partitioned into four separate areas which connect through the middle and edges only - Green geysers are high yield
Synapse - Spawns are bottom left and top right - Path through the middle of the map is wide enough for all units - Green geysers are high yield
The judges were: - Plexa (TL.net staff) - monitor (Mapping Community) - Yoshi Kirishima (TL Strategy)
Unfortunately, goswser was interested in judging but was unable to due to having to cast some last minute events.
Once again, I wonder how close I came. It's hard being passionate about something for so long and not seeing much in the way of validation. I will continue to map and hopefully my break through will come, I just hope another opportunity arises soon.
Congratulations to all the finalists! A display of just how talented the map making community is. I hope we have these kind of contests more frequently as the map pool gets kind of stale and quality submissions and work like this can eliviate it. Thanks Red Bull for hosting!
new polaris rhapsody is bugged.Timer reads gibberish and a gas on the natural for the sw base is unbuildable.
The maps should be checked thoroughly. I don't have time to do it. There could be more problems as well. I noticed the New Polaris Rhapsody thing a few days ago and now that it is a finalist I figured I should say something. I confirmed the same problems on the TLMC version.
On November 02 2013 14:42 NewSunshine wrote: I am disappoint
Not just that my map didn't make it, but my top 7 would probably be quite different. Oh well. I decided to submit, so I'll just suck it up and deal
I'm curious. What maps would you have picked?
On November 02 2013 14:41 lorestarcraft wrote: Once again, I wonder how close I came. It's hard being passionate about something for so long and not seeing much in the way of validation. I will continue to map and hopefully my break through will come, I just hope another opportunity arises soon.
Keep trying man. I remember it took me forever to win any sort of recognition when mapping, even though I feel my maps were good enough. You'll get in if you keep being passionate and hard working.
Really like the symmetry of Shrieking Breeze; the paths look a bit simplistic though; its certainly no Raid Assault http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Raid_Assault. Jungle Valley, looks like a pretty awesome semi-island, though it looks like some spawns seem kinda strong compared to others, as they allow besieging the third; I'll have to see how it plays out though.
Some really excellent maps! Conceptually they all offer something new. I am so intrigued by Jungle Valley. How does one play without scouting? And Shrieking Breeze, can one defend two ramps, or will a quick 3 bases prove to be too turtley? We have two mirrored maps in Blitzkrieg and Habitation Station. This should be an interesting tourney. Congrats to all the finalists.
Some very interesting concepts. Will be fun to see how they play out, especially the lava map. Almost all of the expansions are on the low ground and would die every 5 minutes right?
Jungle Valley and Shrieking Breeze very much "NR-20" maps from the looks of it.
I quite like the two more-so standard maps, Synapse and Blitzkrieg.
On November 02 2013 15:09 Zeppelin535 wrote: Some very interesting concepts. Will be fun to see how they play out, especially the lava map. Almost all of the expansions are on the low ground and would die every 5 minutes right?
Jungle Valley and Shrieking Breeze very much "NR-20" maps from the looks of it.
I quite like the two more-so standard maps, Synapse and Blitzkrieg.
I think its only the lowest ground in the centre of the map that gets Lavaed.
imo, based on how likely to win, not what i think of them:
Tier 1: Habitation Station. Great visuals, standard layout, nothing to offend anyone. (maybe gold minerals?)
Tier 2: Blitzkrieg: Not exciting visuals but an even more standard looking map than HS, neobowman is famous for some other map? so that might help? Graveside: Ok layout if it gets past 3 bases, ok visuals, might be 3 base turtle fest. Synapse: Great visuals, but tanks/reapers/blink stalkers/colossus at that backdoor ledge could get annoying.
Tier 3
Jungle Valley, NPR, Shrieking Breeze all taking too big of risks to win, but should provide really interesting games in the qualifier when they aren't vetoed.
On November 02 2013 15:09 Zeppelin535 wrote: Some very interesting concepts. Will be fun to see how they play out, especially the lava map. Almost all of the expansions are on the low ground and would die every 5 minutes right?
Jungle Valley and Shrieking Breeze very much "NR-20" maps from the looks of it.
I quite like the two more-so standard maps, Synapse and Blitzkrieg.
I think its only the lowest ground in the centre of the map that gets Lavaed.
Oh looks like I missed some ramps when trying to figure that out. Yes, looks like all the bases are protected. Would be nice if the ramps were more clear. Or, what constitutes the lowest ground is clear with a different texture or something
Also, as someone else pointed out, the lower gas on the bottom right natural is indeed un-buildable.
I think lava should be added to define the game phases (when to attack and when to macro up to the later phase of the game). I think the parts that are lavaed are the "bridge" parts highlighted in white!
On November 02 2013 14:41 lorestarcraft wrote: Once again, I wonder how close I came. It's hard being passionate about something for so long and not seeing much in the way of validation. I will continue to map and hopefully my break through will come, I just hope another opportunity arises soon.
It's about making SC2 better, right?
Can't really argue with the picks, most of the submissions will be dandy, just want to see a ton of games on sweet new maps! Well done e'rbudy.
My own map aside, I really like all these maps. Might be the first time I've said that about an entire set of contest finalists. I'm really interested to see how all of these play out.
Concerning Shrieking Breeze... It doesn't have building blockers on the ramps which I think could be good, since a block would only be able to force a zerg to expand towards their opponent in close positions, and that might be pretty balanced and an interesting option. Expanding towards your opponent there wouldn't leave you too vulnerable to rushes since you can knock down the rocks.
On November 02 2013 15:51 Gfire wrote: My own map aside, I really like all these maps. Might be the first time I've said that about an entire set of contest finalists. I'm really interested to see how all of these play out.
Concerning Shrieking Breeze... It doesn't have building blockers on the ramps which I think could be good, since a block would only be able to force a zerg to expand towards their opponent in close positions, and that might be pretty balanced and an interesting option. Expanding towards your opponent there wouldn't leave you too vulnerable to rushes since you can knock down the rocks.
But tbh I forgot all about them when making it.
I forgot them too but I have no clever excuse I can make up.
Breeze looks awesome symmetrically. Just realize the rush distance in cross spawn before breaking the rocks will be super long Only Synapse looks rather ordinary, which might guarantee it a top spots lol
Great selection. Definitely didn't realize there was timed lava on New Polaris Rhapsody which makes it even more awesome. Synapse is probably my favorite though.
graveside ftw then blitzkrieg and third habitation station the rest tbh don't like, i mean they look good but play wise idk havent play them yet but from what i see they don't look that good to me. but gratz on getting this far and sorry to be mean its just how i feel
edit: synapse looks really good to so tide with third
edit 2.0 just keep looking at them and now thinking the habitation is looking really good so synapse bltzkrieg and habitation all tide for 2nd lol still liking graveside the most idk why
On November 02 2013 14:43 MarcusRife wrote: new polaris rhapsody is bugged.Timer reads gibberish and a gas on the natural for the sw base is unbuildable.
The maps should be checked thoroughly. I don't have time to do it. There could be more problems as well. I noticed the New Polaris Rhapsody thing a few days ago and now that it is a finalist I figured I should say something. I confirmed the same problems on the TLMC version.
Yes u are right, though it is se natural. On sw there is no natural
I think this is the first map tournament where I didn't make an appearance :O lol my submissions were older maps so I wasn't expecting much. Congrats to the winners! All great choices.
Am a bit surprised about the map results though, i felt the maps had more strategic variety and 'shaking of the metagame'(lava map aside) at the last TLMC where in the end only the standard maps got voted for the winners. Also would love more blinkable positions like in Cloud Kingodm to allow for different openings
Really glad to see that map makers are starting to get rid of the Watchtowers <3 good choice. I would so love to see Blitzkrieg without the watchtower in the ladderpool.
I really don't get why in every single map contest some of the most standard maps seem to win. For me personally it completely removes the point of it. One of Starcraft 2's major issues is all the maps play out the same and yes, while some of these are good standard maps, that's not really going to help the viewership of SC2 as a whole.
Grats to the finalists. If anything wins it should be new Polaris Rhapsidy though <3
On November 02 2013 14:43 MarcusRife wrote: new polaris rhapsody is bugged.Timer reads gibberish and a gas on the natural for the sw base is unbuildable.
The maps should be checked thoroughly. I don't have time to do it. There could be more problems as well. I noticed the New Polaris Rhapsody thing a few days ago and now that it is a finalist I figured I should say something. I confirmed the same problems on the TLMC version.
Hi Marcus, thanks for pointing this out. When I tested the maps from the editor (as opposed to uploaded online) the timer worked fine. I've tested it now that it is uploaded and you are correct. If I can't get this issue fixed in the next hour (or progress made so that I am confident it can be fixed in time) it will, unfortunately, be replaced by the 8th place entry.
Update: It looks like a localisation issue. Seems very fixable.
Update 2: The issue has been fixed and the geyser fixed.
Blitzkrieg: Super old map but ok I guess, don't like how the high ground on the bottom is used because there's a particularly good spot to engage compared to any other place, which is a place your opponent will never engage. Might not be a huge issue but attacking looks dangerous at all times.
Graveside: Liked Viper Pit better. The difference between having a third and a fourth base is gigantic and might allow someone to hit a fairly wide timing when you're taking a fourth any earlier than you should be. Making the third harder would fix this but destroy some of the point of the map, and making the fourth closer would require butchering the map a lot, so keep it as it is if it is used. Also, the backdoor to your in-base natural expansion is closer than your main, a problem blistering sands had, mapmaker attempts to use an interesting ramp mechanic to make it easier. A fine map, I suppose.
Habilitation Station: I like it better than when I looked at it initially. Looks like every part of the map is tailored for a different style. Upper area allows a more drop heavy and positional play, middle requires excellent concaves/positioning and attention to your units so they're not caught in a choke, bottom requires control of the high ground. Like how chokes compensate for open spaces, but is probably overdone in the third and fourth bases. Map will probably work out. Has my mother's seal of approval for looking cool.
Jungle Valley: Positionally imbalanced, ironically, since the author obviously attempted to avoid any positional imbalance. Since air play is pretty necessary in the mid-game, a clockwise spawning player can take all three expansions close to his main, but not a counter-clockwise player. Ground play is too boring and probably never works out.
New Polaris Rhapsody: If you want a 5th base you must have a mobile army or be far ahead, or that 5th base is dead. Would rather switch the position of the center base and the cardinal ramp. Of course I realize it's a brood war map, this stuff works better in there I suppose, but I never played brood war at a professional level.
Shrieking Breeze: I thought the author withdrew? Air play is obviously mandatory for a good portion of the game, which will mean cross-potition games are decided by the 3 corner bases which are all super close together. Seems a bit boring. 5 bases are even easier to secure than it looks at first glance. Has my mother's seal of approval for looking cool.
Synapse: Probably my 8th choice. 8 bases that are practically given to you and four that require a helluva lot of stretching. Middle bases require control of both high ground plateaus which is pretty much the point of the map. Otherwise a very nice map
My first impression is that none of these will become classics unfortunately. Most of the maps have no real choices where to expand, unlike the really good (IMO) recent ladder additions Polar Night, Yeonsu and Frost.
On November 02 2013 20:53 Slydie wrote: My first impression is that none of these will become classics unfortunately. Most of the maps have no real choices where to expand, unlike the really good (IMO) recent ladder additions Polar Night, Yeonsu and Frost.
Maybe the deadline was too short?
yeah imo Barricaded should be used, instant classic + Show Spoiler +
On November 02 2013 19:02 Aunvilgod wrote: Some of them are really nice and innovative, some are not. Sad to see some very innovative maps fall out.
Well some had to be left (like mine u.u), there were only 7 spots.
I'm thrilled that Synapse, Shrieking Breeze and graveside are in the top 7, i really really like those maps, and i can bet my life on that at least one player will lose a big portion of his army in Polaris Rapsody ^^
It's well known that viewers don't enjoy watching early action, they prefer watching 15 minutes of nothing, so they can prepare themselves. Action is scary
If Synapse was on the ladder I would veto it...looks miserable for PvT once you get to 3-4 bases. The 4th is next to a cliff of the main, and the 3rd is far away. Basically the distance by land is too far compared to the distance by air.
Also, fuck playing against mutas on that map. Not gonna happen.
On November 03 2013 01:10 Hafe wrote: If Synapse was on the ladder I would veto it...looks miserable for PvT once you get to 3-4 bases. The 4th is next to a cliff of the main, and the 3rd is far away. Basically the distance by land is too far compared to the distance by air.
Also, fuck playing against mutas on that map. Not gonna happen.
While I can certainly see the map elements you're highlighting there, why not play some games on it first? The tendency of the vast majority of players to go "map has X, I don't THINK that X is good for me, vetoed!" is one of the things that makes advancing mapmaking very hard in this community. If we all just veto anything that we don't quite know how it will play out, then nothing new ever gets done. Some of our best maps have come from doing slightly different things. Remember the genius layout of Cloud Kingdom, with perfect base spreads and excellent opportunities to both straight-up attack and harass? If players had looked at that and said "too many opportunities to harass the 3rd and 4th, don't want", we wouldn't have had near the amount of great games on it.
I'm going to give all of these a chance, and in addition to Red Bull, we should have community members running mini-events on maps like this.
Congratulations to the winners. My only hope is that when the next TLMC comes around, we have a month notice in advance and that the judge panel only consist of pro players.
Habitation Station is a lot cooler than it initially looks on the overview. ^^
we have a month notice in advance and that the judge panel only consist of pro players.
That's a very bad idea. Players won't want maps that shape the metagame as it makes their job harder so they'll only ever pick boring maps. I mean Catz admitted in another thread that he "loved" Akilon Wastes. :/
Habitation station finally gets the recognition it deserves! Yesss Blitzkrieg is awesome too. Some great games should come out of that. Synapse is definitely cool too.
I promised I would buy and eat a TL shirt if a truly unconventional map won and it's safe to say I didn't have to. We have two maps that go outside of the standard main-nat setup. One gives you an inbase natural with rocks to it (done before a thousand times, just never seen in tournbaments or the ladder because people are afraid), another gives you two naturals, that's it. Each and every single map featurse a main with 2 geysers and 8 patches, did you know there is exactly no rule in the game which says you have to do this? Did you know you can just say 'Oh what the hell, let me put a third geyser in the main, maybe a third rich getyser which requires 6 workers to saturate', did you know you can actually do this? Please don't come with this bullshit of saying that maps which shake up the metagame have a good chance to win because every time people say it, it's just not true and the most standard map ever wins because people are downright phobic of change. Just look at proleague, just look at what can be done. We've had maps in the ladder which were more unconventional than this.
Every single goddamn map is the fucking same. You can do any build order on every single map. Edit: Seriously, there were weirder maps as finalists of TLMC 2, there were weirder and more original maps in the original ladder pool of WoL. TMLC 2 had a map as finalist with a backdoor expansion which was walled by minerals, you opened up a path into your own main by mining out those minerals. This contest is an insult the complexity and variety of this game. No shit people bitch that the game is 'stale' when every single goddamn map is the same. No, you're not going to see new strategies if you purposefully refuse to make any maps on which the old strategies don't work any more. pfff
Edit: Oh wait, lava rising is truly original (though I don't like it). So I am going to stick to my word. If New Polaris Rhapsody actually wins the entire thing I will buy a TL shirt and eat it in its entirety. I will most likely process it into somethnig but I will eat it in its entirety and photo-document the process. I won't cop out by getting a fake shirt made of candy like someone did, no, I will order a TL shirt and I will eat it in its entirety. This isn't because I'm sure it's not going to win, this is because I promised I would if a truly original map won.
Edit2: So hey, the judges were Plexa, Monitor and Yoshi Kirishima, so apparently the control of what becomes a finalist is vested with these 3 people. Their own personal subjective taste is the dedication and direction of the entire contest rather than it being a cross section of the taste of the entire community. Because let's face it, ultimately what makes a good or a bad map is extremely subjective and typically influenced by racial interest. Even if we were to assume that there is some objective quality to it, what's to say that Plexa or Yoshi Kirishima have the know how to judge maps on it. It's ridiculous. Voting should really be done more democratically to make it repraesent a cross section of the community rather than the opinion of three people.
feedback for graveside: blink stalkers were getting stuck in random places in the middle of the map.
btw
Every single goddamn map is the fucking same. You can do any build order on every single map.
you can do any build order you want but the different maps have different "optimal" build orders. and of course in any scenario where you become predictable in starcraft, you are gonna get punished. so if a build is so good that everyone does it, other ppl are gonna have counter-builds that in general dont seem "good for the map" but are good at countering the build that is good for the map. so in that sense, yeah any build is good for any map. but having a variety of maps still gives people the option of becoming a multi-style multi-build player
After playing on Polaris for two rounds, I really really want it to win. Could probably fiddle with the timing and location of the lava. But it's a very neat concept that deserves more exposure.
I based Blitzkrieg around Blitz X (heheh, get it?) and RoV. Blitz X because of the obvious small unit entrance and RoV with the ramps and levelled high ground. Both maps encouraged players to move up the map in different ways (up as in away from their mains) and I used both ideas in conjunction here.
Also Plexa, could you add unbuildable debris on the main ramps for Blitzkrieg?
On November 03 2013 02:48 NonY wrote: feedback for graveside: blink stalkers were getting stuck in random places in the middle of the map.
I just spotted something that looked like that on stream. Little low ground bits? If it's the same thing I saw, it might be intended. It looks like it might be there for reapers, drop, blink.
The map's a little weird cause there are some little places where there aren't any doodads and I'm not sure if they're pathable or not or if they're supposed to be.
Delighted that Jungle Valley is in. Actually for two reasons, a selfish thing I guess and one good.
Finalist in three TLMCs! Yeah! although Never with a really consevative Design - i guess we have to believe that progressive Design really has Potential and now more than Ever before: a wide Audience sees this as a Necessity.
Besides this Ego Thing i am very Happy that we finally will See a semi Island Map in competitive play that theoretically grants Four bases for Free while at the Same Time Leaves you in the dark if your two Potential Thirds are going to be Harassed strongly the very next Second.
I realize that the Map's Concept is Not that Easy to read in the overview but please Check it Out. It is pretty awesome XD
On November 03 2013 02:48 NonY wrote: feedback for graveside: blink stalkers were getting stuck in random places in the middle of the map.
Unfortunately I missed that part of your game. Do you mean the low-ground areas connecting the mid-ground areas between the mains? If its what I am thinking they were intentionally left pathable for reapers.
So far I've seen all maps but polaris rhapsody being played, the only one I really approve of is jungle valley, though It may need to be made cross due to the power of positional imbalance.
On November 03 2013 05:49 19Meavis93 wrote: So far I've seen all maps but polaris rhapsody being played, the only one I really approve of is jungle valley, though It may need to be made cross due to the power of positional imbalance.
Not a good iidea. Look at the overview again - no Potential direct Opponent is completely against the idea.
On November 03 2013 05:51 Gfire wrote: I honestly can't see this positional imbalance people keep talking about on jungle valley. It seems quite well done.
Thank you! It is conceptual Sound imo. One third is easier to attack on the ground, but BOTH Thirds have cliffs Above!
Every single goddamn map is the fucking same. You can do any build order on every single map.
you can do any build order you want but the different maps have different "optimal" build orders. and of course in any scenario where you become predictable in starcraft, you are gonna get punished. so if a build is so good that everyone does it, other ppl are gonna have counter-builds that in general dont seem "good for the map" but are good at countering the build that is good for the map. so in that sense, yeah any build is good for any map. but having a variety of maps still gives people the option of becoming a multi-style multi-build player
Well, the point is, that these maps will not result into 'shaking up the metagame' as was advertised, neither did TLMC2.
Basically, we have not seen any new strategies as a result of the TLMC 2 winners because the maps do not provide incentive for it. Consider Icarus, a map that did truly shake up the metagame. The first professional game on that map already saw a specific cheese which works only on that map and only in ZvP. It was a very well engineered cheese taking advantage of the new features of the map and it worked. Later on we saw very specific strategies on Icarus that only worked on Icarus, we say something fresh.
People complain about biomine being used all the time and ask Blizzard to change the hard variables of the game. The truth is that if you do it like this, you change it for evry map, say biotank becomes the standard due to what Blizzard does, then we will see biotank on every map. A far simpler solution is just to screw the standard in maps, make different maps. Make a map with a natural which has 6 patches but 3 geysers and see what happens and what people do with extra gas and less minerals. There is no need for Blizzard to intervene at all.
To be fair, players didn't really have time to create specific strategies for these maps like they did for icarus.
If you feel that changing resource ratios is the best way to shake up the metagame, I understand your disappointment. When I've sat down and tried to make some different and interesting maps, they haven't usually involved that yet, but you're right, it really should be tried more. I'm personally not really a fan of mixed gold and blue bases but I'd love to see some triple gas and whatnot. That's a good idea, and considering there are seven finalists all with pretty basic setups in that regard, it is a little disappointing.
I suppose a change like that would change the compositions people use even the first time they played the map... I'd argue, though, that that's not even metagame since it's just the players having a different set of resources and adapting to it once they're already in the game. Anything truly meta requires more time outside of tournament matches for the players to think and prepare, right? I think it's impossible, by definition, to shake up the metagame in less than a day.a
Sorry, I completely agree about graveside. The more I look at it the more I like it. That front natural with the positioning of the ramp... So very good.
Hmm, think I'd go with Graveside in the final choice.. The map provided some awesome games in proxy vs non-proxy scenarios and seemed good with neither side having the big advantage..
As for bad maps for example - can't wrap my head around how did Jungle-Valley make it into the final pool ?? It's like crazy - how's a Zerg supposed to play on it ?
Other maps seem descent though, still - think would go with Graveside..
I like graveside as well although I think it's a bit less unusual... I'd say that graveside will likely have the support to get into pools soon even if it doesn't get chosen as #1 while the others might need the win more. IDK if that should be taken account in the decision or not, though.
Then again it might actually be the opposite as NPR and Jungle Valley might get a lot of attention for being somewhat different. I could see NPR getting a cult following (I will also say I made a melee map with flooding back around WoL beta or early release so hipster glasses and stuff) but people don't seem to like Jungle Valley as much.
Jungle Valley might be the most underestimated so I'd love to see it win. Not really the biggest fan of the aesthetics or the name but the layout is sick.
Jungle Valley might be the most underestimated so I'd love to see it win. Not really the biggest fan of the aesthetics or the name but the layout is sick.
<3
i have the feeling the overview kinda looks more imbalanced than it is and that puts many people off. their fears are based on a misjudgement - the map could "look" more balanced, if done a bit differently, mainly the cw and ccw thirds. NO matter the outcome in the voting I will release the map after this whole thing is over and get this fixed.
I don't know if the lava map is that great. I only watched one game on it, but the aesthetics of the lava rising is awkward. I had hoped for lava coming up from the ground at some selected places and slowly overflowing a location, allowing units to more easily avoid it and giving more warning instead of something inelegant like a timer. And instead of an instant-kill I would like to see it dealing psionic storm level damage so that even being caught in the lava is not a death sentence for units like the thor or ultralisk.
Currently you might as well replace the lava by an electric field that just zaps everything once per five minutes.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/eJi64A3.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/C57C7m9.jpg)
