EPTBalance Test map Changes - Page 9
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[CCSRAM] BaoQuan
United States96 Posts
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wishr
Russian Federation262 Posts
Now please, apply something to Nydus and BC's but do not buff carriers | ||
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DusTerr
2520 Posts
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TheDougler
Canada8306 Posts
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c0olL
129 Posts
On October 15 2013 03:03 ssxsilver wrote: I just wish blinding cloud reduced attack range by a fixed amount rather than to melee range. Having it -5 range would make everything else minus Collossi with thermal lance melee already so I don't get why it needs to be such an overkill for tanks. wow, this is a very smart idea. with this and bonus dmg to shields we could see tanks in every match up. to bad blizz wont listen to you XD | ||
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Yakikorosu
1203 Posts
On October 15 2013 14:05 DusTerr wrote: I really wish they'd focus on the a) boring and b) unused units. I think the burrow movement speed buff for roaches was a cool idea... Now do something for Thors, BCs and Carriers (let's start with a speed buffs like every other unit...) I second that, but I think Thors are okay. BCs might see more use with the "mech buffs" coming in. Carriers need some help. Most of all though... the Mothership! It's the "ultimate" Protoss unit, the only "hero" unit in the game (aside from MSC), but it's totally USELESS! Except for the week or two when people tried using it against swarm host turtling, there is literally no reason to ever make it. The MSC is just much better. I realize you can't introduce new, unique abilities into the game at a whim, so here's a simple idea: Make Mothership have the EXACT same abilities as MSC, remove the cloaking it currently has (no one uses it anyway), PLUS buff its HP/movement/attack to make it a strong battle unit. Nothing insane, maybe roughly twice as strong as a BC? I really don't think it would unbalance the game because in lategame TvP the T will have a horde of vikings anyway and in ZvP it would finally create a use for Neural Parasite again. | ||
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playnice
Malaysia302 Posts
On October 15 2013 06:57 shid0x wrote: Wow,blizzard actually made 2 decisions that were not completely stupid. What is going on ? The widow mine change is a step in the right way of balancing it,i think it still needs some test by the players in game but the basic idea is quite good. Also imo the revelation should be permanent whether burrowed of whatever. Feels like they should just combined Revelation and Envision and make it a single spell, though it will risk completely destroying Swamhost siege, WM, Banshee, Roaches and a huge buff against clocked ghost. They would need to change all the stats like cast range and effective radius to balance it out. If they are looking to make the oracle a high priority target and important for the mid game, this seems like the way to go. | ||
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Sissors
1395 Posts
On October 15 2013 16:12 playnice wrote: Feels like they should just combined Revelation and Envision and make it a single spell, though it will risk completely destroying Swamhost siege, WM, Banshee, Roaches and a huge buff against clocked ghost. They would need to change all the stats like cast range and effective radius to balance it out. If they are looking to make the oracle a high priority target and important for the mid game, this seems like the way to go. Well it depends on how you would do it. I actually think it is an idea to change it so revelation also shows all cloaked units similar to normal units, and keeps them visible for the duration of the spell. That would be a unique form of detection, a bit like scan, but still different. At the same time then it is a one time thing: they stay visible, but new units entering the area are not affected and stay cloaked. | ||
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Insoleet
France1806 Posts
Flash suggested a 2 supply/100 gas tank. I wonder why DK refuse to take this into consideration... Overall these 2 changes are very good. | ||
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CloudMage
Canada221 Posts
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shin_toss
Philippines2589 Posts
On October 15 2013 13:28 wishr wrote: Great changes. GJ, David! Now please, apply something to Nydus and BC's but do not buff carriers not sure if sarcasm, carriers maybe the most underused unit in the game (which it shouldn't be since its a core of protoss since sc1) but zergs always find a way to qq. | ||
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29 fps
United States5725 Posts
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p14c
Vatican City State431 Posts
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klup
France612 Posts
I just break into master again switching to zerg and only doing mutalisk oriented play in TvZ, TvP. Mutalisk management was really skill demanding in wol, now there is no feeling of "danger" doing this kind of harass. | ||
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Insoleet
France1806 Posts
On October 15 2013 17:09 klup wrote: Basically nothing about mutalisk. I think D Kim denial on this one is huge. Mutalisk is already the most OP unit of the TvZ matchup and the most powerfull tool to do deadly transition in TvP . With the overseer speed, terrans have actually no real counter to mutalisk big ball bouncing between bases. They should do the same thing as they did for ZvZ, buff static defense of all races against mutalisk. to counter a ball of 30 mutalisk, even a stack of 3 turrets do nothing. The + bio buff dmg should be applied to any static defense. at least with this we would have to avoid static D or be cautious and actually micro mutalisks. I just break into master again switching to zerg and only doing mutalisk oriented play in TvZ, TvP. Mutalisk management was really skill demanding in wol, now there is no feeling of "danger" doing this kind of harass. Well, i never see any terran researching range + armor for turrets. Mutalisks dont do damages to 6 armor turrets... And when they fly away, with the range, they die really more often. If we remove the mutalisk from the zerg arsenal well... Zerg doesnt have anything scary (and fun to watch) left. But maybe nerfing their total health could be cool. Zerg would have to take care of their muta a lot more. | ||
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Sissors
1395 Posts
On October 15 2013 17:16 Insoleet wrote: Well, i never see any terran researching range + armor for turrets. Mutalisks dont do damages to 6 armor turrets... And when they fly away, with the range, they die really more often. If we remove the mutalisk from the zerg arsenal well... Zerg doesnt have anything scary (and fun to watch) left. I research it quite often. Problem is when you need to research it you pretty much already lost: the real counter to mutas is always attacking and making sure he is forced to pretty much suicide his mutas on your army. If you are at the point where he is harassing you and you are making mass turrets to counter it you are on the backfoot and he can freely expand while you sink all your minerals in what is eventually useless static defense. With 6 armor turrets I assume you mean 6 turrets with armor upgrade? You'd be surprised what 30 mutas do, but yeah they wouldnt attack that. At the same time 6 turrets closely grouped might be enough to defend a single expo. Not even your main. That is a hell of an investment just to scare units away. And quite frankly six spread around an expo might still be sniped one at a time by such a muta ball. It would be nice if there was the turret upgrade from the WoL campaign, which gave turret an extra AOE damage. It wasn't too big, but it would be good against mutas. | ||
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VeTerrAn1
Switzerland39 Posts
--> but i really don't get the real intention behind this change ... since TvZ winrates really change in favour of Zerg these days ... despite of the current WM what about the tank buff, did not think that it will change anything in TvP & TVZ, only destroy TvT Bioplay ... if the mutalisk would be nerfed the tank maybe will be decent in TvZ as well, so they can at least compensate the WM nerf, which is the main target of blizz i guess! | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On October 15 2013 17:16 Insoleet wrote: Well, i never see any terran researching range + armor for turrets. Mutalisks dont do damages to 6 armor turrets... And when they fly away, with the range, they die really more often. If we remove the mutalisk from the zerg arsenal well... Zerg doesnt have anything scary (and fun to watch) left. But maybe nerfing their total health could be cool. Zerg would have to take care of their muta a lot more. Range and armor are upgraded in pro games. But they are not very effective. 2 armor means that instead of being unable to 1 shot a turret with 29 mutas, you can snipe it with 36 mutas. On 4 bases, that's less than a minute of respite if the zerg definitely wants to 1 shot. If the turrets are close together, that number of mutas needed to 1 shot goes down for consequent turrets due to glaive worms. | ||
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klup
France612 Posts
Well, i never see any terran researching range + armor for turrets. Mutalisks dont do damages to 6 armor turrets... And when they fly away, with the range, they die really more often. If we remove the mutalisk from the zerg arsenal well... Zerg doesnt have anything scary (and fun to watch) left. But maybe nerfing their total health could be cool. Zerg would have to take care of their muta a lot more. Well I actually do that but only using mech and it has done close to nothing. you need a pack of at least 3 armored turret to actually do dmg. But it's actually really easy to tell you why terrans dont research theses: 1) it is researched on Ebays and your ebays are used to research bio upgrades. 2) it cost a lot of gas 100/100 for the range upgrade 150/150 for the building upgrade, it is huge for upgrading static D. The only reason I do these is for PF to defend key point when I play mech. 3) the turret itself is expensive as for countering mutas properly to go in one place you need a stack of 3 turrets : 300 minerals X the number of point you want to defend. It's not viable. I don't want muta going out of the zerg arsenal. I just want terran to have actual tools to deal with it and please don't mention the thor because it's like the most slow unit of the entire game and it is not that strong vs mutas when they magic box... An upgrade for splash dmg for turrets could be a good option too as the previous poster mentionned it. a simple revert on regen of mutas could do good too but I don't like it so much because one good hit of WM could make your muta ball very vulnerable , too much I think. The idea is that you can actually move out after loosing map control vs zerg. Because if you look carefully at recent ZvT every time a terran loose the map control and stop attacking for a couple of minute. Muta harass--> terran dead. Terran should be able to leave their base and let a small troop to defend and support turrets. And turrets should scare at some point the harass of mutas. It's the only flying unit atm that just /ignore any anti air static defense and that is not normal. the problem was fixed in ZvZ with the spore buff and it was great, I often play muta in ZvZ and don't feel spore buff is abused. It is actually normal that a static D is scary at some point. | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On October 15 2013 02:38 a176 wrote: All these random balance changes, most of them he doesn't even go through with, it seems like David Kim doesn't have a fucking clue what to do with this game anymore. If they were so fucking random you will see them in games. They are testing. And some don't go through because they are not good... After seeing the recents matches, WM nerf was too strong. I'm glad they are considering another approach. Is the tank buff still on ? Muta is still quite strong but you have to be able to get to them (and that's sometimes hard). But ... i don't know how you could nerf muta. If you get the regen, WM will be so powerfull against them... if you take a bit of speed, marines will shred them... damage nerf will be really strong too... I feal that a change in muta is not going to happen | ||
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