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Also if we look back the brood war mines, there are chances for a mine to be refunctional (burrows back again) after being dodged, and replacement of the mine increase the opportunity for a player to trigger it
However if we look at widowmines, after being dodged, the opponent already knows the place of the mine so he could easily either trigger it using a worthless unit or avoid that area
Also vulture mines destoys each other so it is hard to get that "stack up effect" of widowmines(a bulk of mines 1 shot the zerg army)
The splash damage is just one small part of the mine...
That's why sometimes widowmines can be extremely powerfull but sometimes they are completely useless
Edit: please design the AoE damage units carefully David Kim
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I like the widow mine change, but tanks firing faster was supposed to be the counterbalance.. so if we improve widow mine some.. and leave the tank upgrade as it is... ??? |:
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On October 15 2013 06:53 Lumi wrote:
I like the widow mine change, but tanks firing faster was supposed to be the counterbalance.. so if we improve widow mine some.. and leave the tank upgrade as it is... ??? |:
Tank needs more buffs not less..
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Wow,blizzard actually made 2 decisions that were not completely stupid.
What is going on ?
The widow mine change is a step in the right way of balancing it,i think it still needs some test by the players in game but the basic idea is quite good.
Also imo the revelation should be permanent whether burrowed of whatever.
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where did the idea of merging upgrades for terran go?
TvZ: viking air attack could do +4 against psionic, so they can snipe vipers faster, or instead the range from which blind cloud can be casted could be reduced to 8 to make it more vulnerable. and thors could receive some kind a small buff against air. but nerfing WM *a little* is a good thing, I am confident they will nerf the nerf even more than the current proposal.
TvT: don't go for a general tank buff.
TvP: give thors' ground attack against shield a buff.
Pv: Oracle change: fix revelation *and* buff it,... cannot hurt.
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On October 15 2013 06:35 andrewlt wrote:
I wonder if they realize part of mech's problem is that thors are terrible anti-air. It's very obvious when watching TvT where one side goes mech and the other goes marine/tank. The marine/tank player can drop with impunity while the mech player has to be careful around marines.
Siege tanks are still too vulnerable to air units and to all the insanely fast units that SC2 has.
Agreed, also buffing Thor's anti-air is one of the few changes that wouldn't break any matchup.
Regarding the Oracle, I would like to see Revelation and Envision merged.
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Why the widow mine nerf? Blizzard is going too far. Players like flash and innovation are losing to players like curious and soo. If anything, the widow mine needs an upgrade to make it run faster or have higher range or no team splash or something. The only reason terran was winning at all was the meta game. TThe zergs started to figure it out and now it's back to zerg dominance like in WoL. This widow mine nerf isn't what we need in hots right now, well I guess we can call it WoL 2.0 since soo will probably 4-0 dear in gsl and jaedong will win wcs na
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Ok, I might just be crazy, but I'd love to see a ghost buff. Specifically, more damage on snipe (again). It would let bio terrans have another option against ultras and meching terrans options against vipers; and for both to use against infestors and broods, while not being useless against mutas. Something like 35 +20 psionic or 40 + 15 psionic (currently 25 + 25 psionic) would even keep the exact same number of snipes to pick off a HT, and the damage vs non-psionic is still less than the old ghosts vs everything days of TvZ when it was 45 flat. I just think it would be fun, and add another flexible option for terrans outside TvP.
Either that, or buff tank hp. They would still be vulnerable to mutas and bio terrans' drops, but it gives the meching terran a little more breathing room to save/repair them. Also might promote tank usage against toss all-ins.
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I think all the balance changes thus far have been spot on
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France961 Posts
I just love to see terran saying was game was just balanced when terran was winning everything over the last nine month, and since the overseer buff and some news maps Innovation lost 3 macro games and every one is losing its mind and asking for buff. :D
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Mine is taking over the AoE. so Siege could try doing a lot more single target damage. and start sniping Colossi, Ultras and Archons more effectively. Mech can't even handle Colossi + Gateway so it'd be useful with good focus fire to kill and zone out Colossi since 13 > 9. It'll also reinforce the basic unit design that you can waste a lot of damage potential if unmicro'd, which was mitigated by smart fire. Siege in TvT will still be viable, ZvT is mostly a Muta/Viper issue, and PvT this is a real buff that significantly helps against Protoss ground.
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sry but: Let's do a bugfix and call it a balance patch
Oracle:
Instead of doing the Revelation range buff, we'd like to try a change where units that are hit by Revelation can't remove it by simply burrowing or cloaking. Burrowing or cloaking will still hide the unit, but unburrowing/uncloaking will reveal it again.
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On October 15 2013 07:24 Vanadiel wrote:
I just love to see terran saying was game was just balanced when terran was winning everything over the last nine month, and since the overseer buff and some news maps Innovation lost 3 macro games and every one is losing its mind and asking for buff. :D
Terrans have won many tournaments (though Mvp and MMA vs mostly EU players doesn't say much about game balance) but if you look at distribution in Finals it is very close to ideal and if you look at Top 4 and Top 8 Terran is under-represented.
If you then look at tournaments overall and every division of ladder except Bronze, Terran is *very* under-represented and outside of Korea *very very* under-represented.
Also it would be nice to see Terrans win events with non-marine based strats.
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I'd still love the see the envision and the relevation abilities merge into one ability, while giving the oracle a new ability that allows them to disarm static defenses, like they were supposed to have early in the beta. It fixes the fact that the oracle is pretty much only useful untill there is any form of static defenses. It'd give them some sort of midgame usage aswell, while also encouraging making more than just one of them (since that won't really work out with the mana and stuff).
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I like this widow mine adjustment. I think this is exactly what was needed as it still does damage to the full 1.75 radius, but banelings will only die inside the 1.25 and take damage outside. I think this could be a good change and am interested to see how it turns out.
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Why do people keep asking for +damage to shields...
If shields were really the "make or break" aspect of Mech PvT then cutting 1-2 tanks for 1-2 ghosts would solve ALL shield problems...
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On October 15 2013 08:17 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Why do people keep asking for +damage to shields...
If shields were really the "make or break" aspect of Mech PvT then cutting 1-2 tanks for 1-2 ghosts would solve ALL shield problems...
Ghost EMPs immortals, immortals back up and tanks sit sieged outside of range. See a problem there? You can't chase EMP'd units with siege tanks like you can with bio.
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That doesn't sound like a problem at all. That's the very definition of territory control that people have been clamoring for.
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United Kingdom12024 Posts
On October 15 2013 08:51 archwaykitten wrote:
That doesn't sound like a problem at all. That's the very definition of territory control that people have been clamoring for.
but it's not territory control, because immortal shields come back a hell of a lot faster than EMP energy so either you EMP his immortals (you have to have all your army together or you get rolled over which is the issue of tanks being so bad) and he runs into your entire army and trades evenly still even with a bad engagement, or he gets emp'd, moves back for 10 seconds then moves back in and gets an insane engagement.
Until units like the siege tank are better, then you'll never have proper territory control in SC2. You could even notice it in the game with Flash vs Curious. Tanks being so bad means that you can't leave 5-6 back at your bases in BW and actually have a strong enough defense to hold anything as they just a-move their entire army into them and there's nothing you can do about it. Not only that, but because of Tank's ridiculous supply increase to 3 it means that you can't have enough tanks to even spend 5-6 tanks trying to stop yourself just getting backstabbed as your main army is already screwed.
The tank for the fact it costs too much supply and also is useless at doing any form of damage against pretty much anything in the game is the reason why mech is broken in SC2 and the tank is a terrible unit. They're just not powerful enough and you just can't get enough of them to deal with that fact.
Now if they were 3 supply but did more damage it might elliviate the problem, same goes for if they were 2 supply but had the same damage they do now. You can either make it so you can build more tanks, or you make them more powerful and maybe then, maybe then might we actually see board control in SC2 and less ball armies of bio.
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EPT
