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Shuttle Retires

Forum Index > SC2 General
148 CommentsPost a Reply
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mikkmagro
Profile Joined April 2011
Malta1513 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-07 17:21:50
October 07 2013 16:21 GMT
#1
Zoia has just stated on the WCS EU Season 3 Challenger broadcast that (T)Shuttle will be retiring from SC2, and was thus forfeiting his spot, meaning Happy gets a BYE in his first match.

i retired sc2 , thanks to all my fans and friends, I met through pro gaming, I will never forget it

— 최성진 (@shuttleSC2) October 7, 2013

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mousesports, Team Acer, Fnatic!
Aeromi
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
France14460 Posts
October 07 2013 16:21 GMT
#2
Sad news...
https://twitter.com/DrAeromi | Updates on live tournaments: @StarCrafteSport
SkullZ9
Profile Joined April 2011
Belgium2048 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-07 16:23:10
October 07 2013 16:22 GMT
#3
Are there players retiring everyday ?
Jade
Profile Joined January 2011
Poland289 Posts
October 07 2013 16:22 GMT
#4
He is going to military next year (asked him).
@KRN_Jade "Patience is a small price to pay for perfection."
Qwyn
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2779 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-07 16:37:16
October 07 2013 16:23 GMT
#5
Shuttle and shuttle. Where to (did he mention that at all)?

(Oh I know the difference, don't you worry ^^).
"Think of the hysteria following the realization that they consciously consume babies and raise the dead people from their graves" - N0
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
October 07 2013 16:24 GMT
#6
Shuttle aka (T)MentalKing in case people get confused
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
October 07 2013 16:24 GMT
#7
Makes sense. The only thing on the line today are seedings for next year's code S qualifier. No prize money, no WCS points, nothing else. If he plans on attending military service next year, then there is nothing he can win, except possibly screwing up the seeding of the qualifier if he's a bit mischievous.
KanoCoke
Profile Joined June 2011
Japan863 Posts
October 07 2013 16:33 GMT
#8
It's like retiring is the whole "in thing" nowadays and everyone's doing it.
Will always cheer for: MMA Bomber Taeja Curious Life herO Zest
TheBloodyDwarf
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
Finland7524 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-07 16:36:24
October 07 2013 16:35 GMT
#9
On October 08 2013 01:24 JustPassingBy wrote:
Makes sense. The only thing on the line today are seedings for next year's code S qualifier. No prize money, no WCS points, nothing else. If he plans on attending military service next year, then there is nothing he can win, except possibly screwing up the seeding of the qualifier if he's a bit mischievous.

There are money and WCS points on line.

Who comes first in his group gets 200 $ and second gets 100$. Those 8 players that got through bracket stage got 300$.
Fusilero: "I still can't believe he did that, like dude what the fuck there's fandom and then there's what he did like holy shit. I still see it when I close my eyes." <- reaction to the original drunk santa post which later caught on
argonautdice
Profile Joined January 2013
Canada2719 Posts
October 07 2013 16:36 GMT
#10
stop retiring everyone
very illegal and very uncool
TheBloodyDwarf
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
Finland7524 Posts
October 07 2013 16:36 GMT
#11
On October 08 2013 01:36 argonautdice wrote:
stop retiring everyone

Way too much progamers.
Fusilero: "I still can't believe he did that, like dude what the fuck there's fandom and then there's what he did like holy shit. I still see it when I close my eyes." <- reaction to the original drunk santa post which later caught on
Mortal
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
2943 Posts
October 07 2013 16:38 GMT
#12
about time some of the dead wood was burned out. the scene has ben saturated for quite a while.
The universe created an audience for itself.
nachtkap
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany195 Posts
October 07 2013 16:38 GMT
#13
Is there a source for this? i.e. through what outlet did Zoia say it.
KaiserKieran
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States615 Posts
October 07 2013 16:41 GMT
#14
NOOOO mental king TT
NovemberstOrm
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Canada16217 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-07 16:41:55
October 07 2013 16:41 GMT
#15
On October 08 2013 01:38 nachtkap wrote:
Is there a source for this? i.e. through what outlet did Zoia say it.

He's broadcasting the wcs eu challenger league matches.
Moderatorlickypiddy
Tidus Mino
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United Kingdom1108 Posts
October 07 2013 16:44 GMT
#16
On October 08 2013 01:24 JustPassingBy wrote:
Makes sense. The only thing on the line today are seedings for next year's code S qualifier. No prize money, no WCS points, nothing else. If he plans on attending military service next year, then there is nothing he can win, except possibly screwing up the seeding of the qualifier if he's a bit mischievous.


Not technically true, I spoke with one of the higher up admins from ESL and it seems that it's not decided what will happen next year as far as qualifying for premier goes, so it might be that the top players from this challenger are in fact premier next season.
Head of Production at FACEITTV, ex-WW & Mouz SC2 manager
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
October 07 2013 16:44 GMT
#17
On October 08 2013 01:35 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 01:24 JustPassingBy wrote:
Makes sense. The only thing on the line today are seedings for next year's code S qualifier. No prize money, no WCS points, nothing else. If he plans on attending military service next year, then there is nothing he can win, except possibly screwing up the seeding of the qualifier if he's a bit mischievous.

There are money and WCS points on line.

Who comes first in his group gets 200 $ and second gets 100$. Those 8 players that got through bracket stage got 300$.


Huh? I thought the 100$ and 200$ are handed out depending on when you were eliminated from the bracket stage earlier?
chipmonklord17
Profile Joined February 2011
United States11944 Posts
October 07 2013 16:46 GMT
#18
On October 08 2013 01:44 JustPassingBy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 01:35 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
On October 08 2013 01:24 JustPassingBy wrote:
Makes sense. The only thing on the line today are seedings for next year's code S qualifier. No prize money, no WCS points, nothing else. If he plans on attending military service next year, then there is nothing he can win, except possibly screwing up the seeding of the qualifier if he's a bit mischievous.

There are money and WCS points on line.

Who comes first in his group gets 200 $ and second gets 100$. Those 8 players that got through bracket stage got 300$.


Huh? I thought the 100$ and 200$ are handed out depending on when you were eliminated from the bracket stage earlier?


That would be exceptionally weird because no one outside of those that have made it through bracket stage have "placed" in challenger league yet
DiMano
Profile Joined July 2011
Korea (South)2066 Posts
October 07 2013 16:51 GMT
#19
WTF WHY EVRYONE RETIRES???????? What is wrog explain me please about 15-20 koreans have retired wtf is this...
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
October 07 2013 16:51 GMT
#20
On October 08 2013 01:51 DiMano wrote:
WTF WHY EVRYONE RETIRES???????? What is wrog explain me please about 15-20 koreans have retired wtf is this...


Mandatory Military Service
SHOOG
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States1639 Posts
October 07 2013 16:52 GMT
#21
I liked watching Shuttle's streams. It's unfortunate that there are so many good players, yet they can never really break into the top.
GL to Shuttle.
TheBloodyDwarf
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
Finland7524 Posts
October 07 2013 16:52 GMT
#22
On October 08 2013 01:51 DiMano wrote:
WTF WHY EVRYONE RETIRES???????? What is wrog explain me please about 15-20 koreans have retired wtf is this...

Too much progamers. When kespa came to sc2, player pool got double
Fusilero: "I still can't believe he did that, like dude what the fuck there's fandom and then there's what he did like holy shit. I still see it when I close my eyes." <- reaction to the original drunk santa post which later caught on
DiMano
Profile Joined July 2011
Korea (South)2066 Posts
October 07 2013 16:53 GMT
#23
On October 08 2013 01:51 JustPassingBy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 01:51 DiMano wrote:
WTF WHY EVRYONE RETIRES???????? What is wrog explain me please about 15-20 koreans have retired wtf is this...


Mandatory Military Service

No just no
Mortal
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
2943 Posts
October 07 2013 16:57 GMT
#24
On October 08 2013 01:53 DiMano wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 01:51 JustPassingBy wrote:
On October 08 2013 01:51 DiMano wrote:
WTF WHY EVRYONE RETIRES???????? What is wrog explain me please about 15-20 koreans have retired wtf is this...


Mandatory Military Service

No just no

what do you mean? there's: A- too many progamers. and B- mandatory military service is a thing in SK.

nothing about that statement is incorrect.
The universe created an audience for itself.
OneSpeed
Profile Joined June 2012
Norway47 Posts
October 07 2013 17:00 GMT
#25
3 Terran in 1 day lol.
I only got one speed
TaShadan
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany1975 Posts
October 07 2013 17:05 GMT
#26
... who is next?
Total Annihilation Zero
jtp118
Profile Joined November 2010
United States137 Posts
October 07 2013 17:08 GMT
#27
everyone needs to chill out ... there are waaaaaaaaaay too many SC2 players at the moment, it helps the scene to have retirements. eSF teams, KeSPA teams, and foreign teams cannot all fit into SC2, and all need to downsize.
sharkie
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Austria18413 Posts
October 07 2013 17:11 GMT
#28
On October 08 2013 01:51 JustPassingBy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 01:51 DiMano wrote:
WTF WHY EVRYONE RETIRES???????? What is wrog explain me please about 15-20 koreans have retired wtf is this...


Mandatory Military Service


more like too many players, not enough tournaments
AyaaLa
Profile Joined February 2012
Spain629 Posts
October 07 2013 17:14 GMT
#29
its hard to be a mediocre terran in korea for the moment. specially when you are teamless like Shuttle.
i balance whine all the time.
DiMano
Profile Joined July 2011
Korea (South)2066 Posts
October 07 2013 17:14 GMT
#30
On October 08 2013 01:57 Mortal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 01:53 DiMano wrote:
On October 08 2013 01:51 JustPassingBy wrote:
On October 08 2013 01:51 DiMano wrote:
WTF WHY EVRYONE RETIRES???????? What is wrog explain me please about 15-20 koreans have retired wtf is this...


Mandatory Military Service

No just no

what do you mean? there's: A- too many progamers. and B- mandatory military service is a thing in SK.

nothing about that statement is incorrect.

A he is 19 years old e.g. HyuN is 25
B Shuttle is in the WCS and not eliminated
HolydaKing
Profile Joined February 2010
21254 Posts
October 07 2013 17:15 GMT
#31
On October 08 2013 02:11 sharkie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 01:51 JustPassingBy wrote:
On October 08 2013 01:51 DiMano wrote:
WTF WHY EVRYONE RETIRES???????? What is wrog explain me please about 15-20 koreans have retired wtf is this...


Mandatory Military Service


more like too many players, not enough tournaments

tbh there are plenty tournaments (less so in Korea though), way too many to watch. and i don't like that too much.

what's not there though is stable payment from teams like in BW times, i assume. but yeah there are too many players too.
OmniEulogy
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada6592 Posts
October 07 2013 17:16 GMT
#32
well... there goes another one
LiquidDota Staff
Mortal
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
2943 Posts
October 07 2013 17:17 GMT
#33
On October 08 2013 02:14 DiMano wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 01:57 Mortal wrote:
On October 08 2013 01:53 DiMano wrote:
On October 08 2013 01:51 JustPassingBy wrote:
On October 08 2013 01:51 DiMano wrote:
WTF WHY EVRYONE RETIRES???????? What is wrog explain me please about 15-20 koreans have retired wtf is this...


Mandatory Military Service

No just no

what do you mean? there's: A- too many progamers. and B- mandatory military service is a thing in SK.

nothing about that statement is incorrect.

A he is 19 years old e.g. HyuN is 25
B Shuttle is in the WCS and not eliminated

you're literally addressing nothing with those two statements. they mean less than nothing in this context (other than WCS, but he was still hardly in contention for any big prize or a legitimate payday). he was never going to win WCS. he knows that.
The universe created an audience for itself.
Dreamer.T
Profile Joined December 2009
United States3584 Posts
October 07 2013 17:17 GMT
#34
Even though a huge number of pro gamers are still active, this constant stream of retirements recently seems to be quite demoralizing for the community.
Forever the best, IMMvp <3
never_Nal
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Costa Rica676 Posts
October 07 2013 17:18 GMT
#35
I guess it's time for the new players to a rise , I think they only "old school" hope we have is Flash JD, other than them, I think older players will retire
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible.
MrMercuG
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands2389 Posts
October 07 2013 17:18 GMT
#36
On October 08 2013 01:51 JustPassingBy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 01:51 DiMano wrote:
WTF WHY EVRYONE RETIRES???????? What is wrog explain me please about 15-20 koreans have retired wtf is this...


Mandatory Military Service


Lol don't act like that's the only reason.
Juicy Orange
Profile Joined March 2013
Canada133 Posts
October 07 2013 17:21 GMT
#37
So many forfeits and retires.
Micro_Jackson
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany2002 Posts
October 07 2013 17:26 GMT
#38
And here comes the next "sc2 is soooooooo bad thread. It killed bisu and so many other heros that were killed by david kim...".

The thruth will most likely be in the middle. You just cant do "pro" gaming forever if you arent at the very top to get a big contract, that happens in every sport. Ask college players. There is the military service in korea and that the sc2 player pool is just too big to support so many players on a market that is relatively isolated.

And some maybe dont like sc2.
Sejanus
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Lithuania550 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-07 17:31:13
October 07 2013 17:28 GMT
#39
It's very hard to take WCS seriously with byes all over the place due to players retiring, not getting visas, choosing different tournaments to attend and so on.


You just cant do "pro" gaming forever if you arent at the very top to get a big contract, that happens in every sport.

No it does not. Even bad basketball pro players find somewhere to play, and I am pretty sure they earn more than an average progamer. Even my little country Lithuania has two basketball leagues and majority of players here are objectively very bad compared to those "at the very top", i.e. NBA stars.

But I don't mean SC2 is necessarily bad by that. It's just not where money is at.
Friends don't let friends massacre civilians
renaissanceMAN
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1840 Posts
October 07 2013 17:30 GMT
#40
Not another one...
On August 15 2013 03:43 Waxangel wrote: no amount of money can replace the enjoyment of being mean to people on the internet
jackslater
Profile Joined November 2012
Russian Federation604 Posts
October 07 2013 17:31 GMT
#41
Good Luck!
tar
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany991 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-07 17:33:56
October 07 2013 17:33 GMT
#42
On October 08 2013 02:28 Sejanus wrote:
It's very hard to take WCS seriously with byes all over the place due to players retiring, not getting visas, choosing different tournaments to attend and so on.

Show nested quote +

You just cant do "pro" gaming forever if you arent at the very top to get a big contract, that happens in every sport.

No it does not. Even bad basketball pro players find somewhere to play, and I am pretty sure they earn more than an average progamer. Even my little country Lithuania has two basketball leagues and majority of players here are objectively very bad compared to those "at the very top", i.e. NBA stars.

But I don't mean SC2 is necessarily bad by that. It's just not where money is at.



Dunno, but I know a handful of ppl who tried to become professional football players and quit in their 20s because they were just not making a living from it or didn't have any real perspective to ever earn decently.

edit: also gl in the future shuttle!
whoever I pick for my anti team turns gosu
mechengineer123
Profile Joined March 2013
Ukraine711 Posts
October 07 2013 17:33 GMT
#43
more and more terrans realizing you can't beat david kim
Mortal
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
2943 Posts
October 07 2013 17:34 GMT
#44
On October 08 2013 02:33 tar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 02:28 Sejanus wrote:
It's very hard to take WCS seriously with byes all over the place due to players retiring, not getting visas, choosing different tournaments to attend and so on.


You just cant do "pro" gaming forever if you arent at the very top to get a big contract, that happens in every sport.

No it does not. Even bad basketball pro players find somewhere to play, and I am pretty sure they earn more than an average progamer. Even my little country Lithuania has two basketball leagues and majority of players here are objectively very bad compared to those "at the very top", i.e. NBA stars.

But I don't mean SC2 is necessarily bad by that. It's just not where money is at.



Dunno, but I know a handful of ppl who tried to become professional football players and quit in their 20s because they were just not making a living from it or didn't have any real perspective to ever earn decently.

comparing SC2 to any professional mainstream sport is a laughable comparison. in nearly every respect. apples and fire hydrants.
The universe created an audience for itself.
bouboule
Profile Joined March 2012
American Samoa62 Posts
October 07 2013 17:35 GMT
#45
thanks to hots for killing sc2
Stephano
Erik.TheRed
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1655 Posts
October 07 2013 17:36 GMT
#46
So many damn retirements recently :/

And I know it's a sad situation, but I can't stop humming this song lately.

+ Show Spoiler +
"See you space cowboy"
10bulgares
Profile Joined September 2013
352 Posts
October 07 2013 17:36 GMT
#47
The wave of retirements could be due to aging progamers that all arrived about the same time in starcraft (at the peak of the BW popularity in Korea).
The global downsizing of starcraft is also a very real phenomena. Compared to the popularity of BW, SC2 is nothing in Korea, I've heard. What the people enjoy at the moment is LOL. Of course it follows that the sponsors will disengage and many players will quit due to the lack of ressources.
If you compare the prize money of the GSL to what is given in the WCS, or simply the prize money for the whole year of SC2, you see a noticeable decline (from 2012 to 2013)
tar
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany991 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-07 17:42:01
October 07 2013 17:41 GMT
#48
On October 08 2013 02:34 Mortal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 02:33 tar wrote:
On October 08 2013 02:28 Sejanus wrote:
It's very hard to take WCS seriously with byes all over the place due to players retiring, not getting visas, choosing different tournaments to attend and so on.


You just cant do "pro" gaming forever if you arent at the very top to get a big contract, that happens in every sport.

No it does not. Even bad basketball pro players find somewhere to play, and I am pretty sure they earn more than an average progamer. Even my little country Lithuania has two basketball leagues and majority of players here are objectively very bad compared to those "at the very top", i.e. NBA stars.

But I don't mean SC2 is necessarily bad by that. It's just not where money is at.



Dunno, but I know a handful of ppl who tried to become professional football players and quit in their 20s because they were just not making a living from it or didn't have any real perspective to ever earn decently.

comparing SC2 to any professional mainstream sport is a laughable comparison. in nearly every respect. apples and fire hydrants.


in that case it actually isn't. Sports as a career only pays out for those who play it at the highest lvl, yet there are a lot more ppl trying to reach that level yet never do. Same goes for sc2. ofc, the bigger the sport, the more ppl can make a living of it (however, also more ppl will try to do so)
whoever I pick for my anti team turns gosu
Sejanus
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Lithuania550 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-07 17:45:44
October 07 2013 17:41 GMT
#49

Dunno, but I know a handful of ppl who tried to become professional football players and quit in their 20s because they were just not making a living from it or didn't have any real perspective to ever earn decently.

But of course not literally everyone can be a pro basketball player. Like not everyone can become a programmer, engineer, goon, pilot, driver and so on. All I am saying is you don't need to be a top player to earn good living in any mainstream pro sports. SC2 doesn't even compare like someone already said. Someone playing in the small countries basketball B league sure as hell doesn't make nothing comparable to what Kobe Bryant does... but he probably still earns more than majority of worldwide known SC2 pros.
Friends don't let friends massacre civilians
DifuntO
Profile Joined November 2011
Greece2376 Posts
October 07 2013 17:42 GMT
#50
I'm gonna say one more time that this is good for the scene.(It sucks for these players and their fans of course)

There are just too many players.We need region lock next year so we can at least protect the foreign scene until Korea stabilizes.
All I do is Stim.
mikkmagro
Profile Joined April 2011
Malta1513 Posts
October 07 2013 17:44 GMT
#51
On October 08 2013 01:51 DiMano wrote:
WTF WHY EVRYONE RETIRES???????? What is wrog explain me please about 15-20 koreans have retired wtf is this...

He is retiring (probably) because:
a) He had a good deal at Clarity, because he was easily their best player, and they paid him a salary, as well as let him live in their team house in New York. When he left due to communication issues in order for him to travel to IEM Shanghai, it is probable that he couldn't find any other team ready to invest as much in him as Clarity did.
b) With the rumours that this year's challenger league not seeding into next year's, it was perhaps not worth it for him to play anymore, also considering that even if he made it to Premier, he could not afford to travel to Europe on his own dime. Teamless Koreans won't have an easy time in WCS EU/AM, and he pretty much has no chance of making it in WCS KR.
c) He had military service, and since his SC2 career was far from booming, and there was hardly any positive outlook for him, being an average Korean pro (being generous) without a team, it was a good time to get the military service out of his way.

Everyone retires because there's just no place for so many progamers, particularly in Korea. Nowadays, if you're an older player (20+), and not in Premier or borderline Premier, you're pretty much dead weight, especially those KeSPA players who are paid a salary, and the same goes for younger players who are not in Challenger at least a couple of times a year. It's no longer viable for teams to have 15+ players on their roster. 6-7 is more than enough.
mousesports, Team Acer, Fnatic!
tar
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany991 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-07 18:00:29
October 07 2013 17:47 GMT
#52
On October 08 2013 02:41 Sejanus wrote:
Show nested quote +

Dunno, but I know a handful of ppl who tried to become professional football players and quit in their 20s because they were just not making a living from it or didn't have any real perspective to ever earn decently.

But of course not literally everyone can be a pro basketball player. Like not everyone can become a programmer, engineer, goon, pilot, driver and so on. All I am saying is you don't need to be a top player to earn good living in any mainstream pro sports. SC2 doesn't even compare like someone already said.


I would argue the German Bundesliga is a rather big sports league and yet statistics say 25 percent of all professional players are bankrupt at the end of their career. Excluding the 1st league numbers go up to about edit: 50 to 70 %. my bad, it's actually 30 to 50 %, sorry.

Making a living in a pro sport is damn hard even when the sport is as big as football.
whoever I pick for my anti team turns gosu
MrMercuG
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands2389 Posts
October 07 2013 17:47 GMT
#53
On October 08 2013 02:36 Erik.TheRed wrote:
So many damn retirements recently :/

And I know it's a sad situation, but I can't stop humming this song lately.

+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY0WxgSXdEE


That seems quite depressive
Mortal
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
2943 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-07 17:50:09
October 07 2013 17:48 GMT
#54
not even worth it at this point. the comparison is a joke on every level.

sc2 needs way less players. WAY less. pretty straightforward.
The universe created an audience for itself.
skatblast
Profile Joined September 2011
United States784 Posts
October 07 2013 17:49 GMT
#55
On October 08 2013 01:22 SkullZ9 wrote:
Are there players retiring everyday ?


People retire and new blood replaces them it happens all the time.
Micro_Jackson
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany2002 Posts
October 07 2013 17:51 GMT
#56
On October 08 2013 02:41 tar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 02:34 Mortal wrote:
On October 08 2013 02:33 tar wrote:
On October 08 2013 02:28 Sejanus wrote:
It's very hard to take WCS seriously with byes all over the place due to players retiring, not getting visas, choosing different tournaments to attend and so on.


You just cant do "pro" gaming forever if you arent at the very top to get a big contract, that happens in every sport.

No it does not. Even bad basketball pro players find somewhere to play, and I am pretty sure they earn more than an average progamer. Even my little country Lithuania has two basketball leagues and majority of players here are objectively very bad compared to those "at the very top", i.e. NBA stars.

But I don't mean SC2 is necessarily bad by that. It's just not where money is at.



Dunno, but I know a handful of ppl who tried to become professional football players and quit in their 20s because they were just not making a living from it or didn't have any real perspective to ever earn decently.

comparing SC2 to any professional mainstream sport is a laughable comparison. in nearly every respect. apples and fire hydrants.


in that case it actually isn't. Sports as a career only pays out for those who play it at the highest lvl, yet there are a lot more ppl trying to reach that level yet never do. Same goes for sc2. ofc, the bigger the sport, the more ppl can make a living of it (however, also more ppl will try to do so)


What you call "bad basketball pro players" are better than 99% of all people taking their sport serious. Yes even Kwame Brown.

And if you make it percent wise there are way more sc2 players that make a lifing out of it then in every "regular" sport.
Hermanoid
Profile Joined March 2011
Sweden213 Posts
October 07 2013 17:52 GMT
#57
The mass outflux of players continues. Yes, players. Oov returning as a coach is the only one going into the game that I can remember since the start of summer, while atleast 10 players are now gone.
xyzåäö
TommyP
Profile Joined December 2011
United States6231 Posts
October 07 2013 17:53 GMT
#58
best of luck shuttle
#TheOneTrueDong
Crytash
Profile Joined September 2012
Germany251 Posts
October 07 2013 18:00 GMT
#59
He is 19, pls stop saying that he is old or has to go to the military.
Words are small, but game is BIG
hypercube
Profile Joined April 2010
Hungary2735 Posts
October 07 2013 18:01 GMT
#60
On October 08 2013 02:41 Sejanus wrote:
Show nested quote +

Dunno, but I know a handful of ppl who tried to become professional football players and quit in their 20s because they were just not making a living from it or didn't have any real perspective to ever earn decently.

But of course not literally everyone can be a pro basketball player. Like not everyone can become a programmer, engineer, goon, pilot, driver and so on. All I am saying is you don't need to be a top player to earn good living in any mainstream pro sports. SC2 doesn't even compare like someone already said. Someone playing in the small countries basketball B league sure as hell doesn't make nothing comparable to what Kobe Bryant does... but he probably still earns more than majority of worldwide known SC2 pros.


There are probably as many basketball fans in Lithuania as there are SC2 fans in the world. And they are probably more loyal, more willing to spend money on tickets, merchandise, etc.

But yes, you don't need to be a top player to make a decent living in mainstream sports. There are maybe 50 000 professional football players in the world.

Interestingly, you do need to pretty good in some mainstream individual sports. E.g I'm guessing less than 1000 people make a living from playing tennis (men and women).
"Sending people in rockets to other planets is a waste of money better spent on sending rockets into people on this planet."
Darkhorse
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States23455 Posts
October 07 2013 18:04 GMT
#61
Shame really. I would've liked to see what he could do in WCS offline. Best of luck to him.
WriterRecently Necro'd (?)
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
October 07 2013 18:08 GMT
#62
another one retires. Not surprising. Saturated scene and downsizing a bit to try and sustain itself. Best of luck to shuttle!
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
purakushi
Profile Joined August 2012
United States3300 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-07 18:13:40
October 07 2013 18:11 GMT
#63
On October 08 2013 01:51 JustPassingBy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 01:51 DiMano wrote:
WTF WHY EVRYONE RETIRES???????? What is wrog explain me please about 15-20 koreans have retired wtf is this...


Mandatory Military Service


Also:
Lack of interest in SC2.
Seeing no future in SC2 (Korea) itself.
No results in the highly competitive environment.
T P Z sagi
Eggi
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
478 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-07 18:21:06
October 07 2013 18:20 GMT
#64
No suprise. Seems like the route everyone is doing now in KR who hasn't done military service. Maybe when they exit duty the game will be back on the rise. Maybe

If not they had a good time and I respect that.
I expect a lot more retirements in the next few months due to the end of WCS for the year.
Lots of reflecting is being done this time of year. Lots of life choices to make.

gl hf shuttle
andrewlt
Profile Joined August 2009
United States7702 Posts
October 07 2013 18:21 GMT
#65
On October 08 2013 02:51 USvBleakill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 02:41 tar wrote:
On October 08 2013 02:34 Mortal wrote:
On October 08 2013 02:33 tar wrote:
On October 08 2013 02:28 Sejanus wrote:
It's very hard to take WCS seriously with byes all over the place due to players retiring, not getting visas, choosing different tournaments to attend and so on.


You just cant do "pro" gaming forever if you arent at the very top to get a big contract, that happens in every sport.

No it does not. Even bad basketball pro players find somewhere to play, and I am pretty sure they earn more than an average progamer. Even my little country Lithuania has two basketball leagues and majority of players here are objectively very bad compared to those "at the very top", i.e. NBA stars.

But I don't mean SC2 is necessarily bad by that. It's just not where money is at.



Dunno, but I know a handful of ppl who tried to become professional football players and quit in their 20s because they were just not making a living from it or didn't have any real perspective to ever earn decently.

comparing SC2 to any professional mainstream sport is a laughable comparison. in nearly every respect. apples and fire hydrants.


in that case it actually isn't. Sports as a career only pays out for those who play it at the highest lvl, yet there are a lot more ppl trying to reach that level yet never do. Same goes for sc2. ofc, the bigger the sport, the more ppl can make a living of it (however, also more ppl will try to do so)


What you call "bad basketball pro players" are better than 99% of all people taking their sport serious. Yes even Kwame Brown.

And if you make it percent wise there are way more sc2 players that make a lifing out of it then in every "regular" sport.


A difference though is that most professional players in mainstream sports only retire after nobody wants them anymore. Even star players only routinely retire after their skills have deteriorated so badly that they become end of the bench players.

SC2 on the other hand is still a personality driven game. Most of the recent Korean retirees are still competitive while the foreign scene is still populated by dozens of shitty players with outsized personalities. The best comparison is to Tim Tebow in the NFL, who is probably unknown to non-Americans. Except comparing foreigners' SC2 skills to Tebow's passing skills is a grave insult to Tebow.
Mortal
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
2943 Posts
October 07 2013 18:23 GMT
#66
On October 08 2013 03:00 Crytash wrote:
He is 19, pls stop saying that he is old or has to go to the military.

he lives in SK. he's an adult. he is required by law to serve a period in the military. how is this confusing people?
The universe created an audience for itself.
c0ldfusion
Profile Joined October 2010
United States8293 Posts
October 07 2013 18:25 GMT
#67
Ahh, that's too bad to hear that he's retiring.
After this big wave of retirements the scene should stabilize a bit.
Crytash
Profile Joined September 2012
Germany251 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-07 18:32:32
October 07 2013 18:28 GMT
#68
Oh come on, Tim Teboy is (first of all) not totally unknown to a non-USA guy (like me) and secondly he is pure trash. You are exaggerating so hard... He just has to fucking stop thinking he is a QB and learn another Position where he can be valuable for a team and he would have a job.

On October 08 2013 03:23 Mortal wrote:he lives in SK. he's an adult. he is required by law to serve a period in the military. how is this confusing people?



Usually you can defer enlistment as long as you are in school/university, up to 24. So i would say, that unless he is not studying etc. military service should NOT be an issue.
Words are small, but game is BIG
TheBloodyDwarf
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
Finland7524 Posts
October 07 2013 18:30 GMT
#69
On October 08 2013 03:23 Mortal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 03:00 Crytash wrote:
He is 19, pls stop saying that he is old or has to go to the military.

he lives in SK. he's an adult. he is required by law to serve a period in the military. how is this confusing people?

Same thing is in Finland. You usually go to army when you are 19-20 but you can entreat suspension(I dont know if this is right word). Like most of professional athletes do this. But you have to go to army before you are 30 years old.

I think in Finland your reason can't being pro gamer :D
Fusilero: "I still can't believe he did that, like dude what the fuck there's fandom and then there's what he did like holy shit. I still see it when I close my eyes." <- reaction to the original drunk santa post which later caught on
Dumbledore
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden725 Posts
October 07 2013 18:31 GMT
#70
The reason Sc2 is dying is the community, everyone used to be complaining about how it will die because of LoL and now everyone are complaining that it's pretty much dead. Why would new players want to start playing this game if they come to sc2 communties and everyone say its dead? :S
Have a nice day ;)
StreetWise
Profile Joined January 2010
United States594 Posts
October 07 2013 18:33 GMT
#71
To be honest I wish there was another good RTS game out there right now. I know a lot of people will point to broodwar, but I am one of those people who doesn't find mechanics interesting as much as micro and strategy. SC2 is riding on the fact that there is no real competition right now. That said it comes at no surprise to constantly see retirements in the news section. As a long time supporter of SC2 I really hope that the devs do what needs to be done to breathe new life into the game. I really want SC2 to be a fun game, almost to the point that I am forcing myself to enjoy it.
I will not be poisoned by your bitterness
TaishiCi
Profile Joined September 2013
Korea (South)211 Posts
October 07 2013 18:35 GMT
#72
On October 08 2013 03:21 andrewlt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 02:51 USvBleakill wrote:
On October 08 2013 02:41 tar wrote:
On October 08 2013 02:34 Mortal wrote:
On October 08 2013 02:33 tar wrote:
On October 08 2013 02:28 Sejanus wrote:
It's very hard to take WCS seriously with byes all over the place due to players retiring, not getting visas, choosing different tournaments to attend and so on.


You just cant do "pro" gaming forever if you arent at the very top to get a big contract, that happens in every sport.

No it does not. Even bad basketball pro players find somewhere to play, and I am pretty sure they earn more than an average progamer. Even my little country Lithuania has two basketball leagues and majority of players here are objectively very bad compared to those "at the very top", i.e. NBA stars.

But I don't mean SC2 is necessarily bad by that. It's just not where money is at.



Dunno, but I know a handful of ppl who tried to become professional football players and quit in their 20s because they were just not making a living from it or didn't have any real perspective to ever earn decently.

comparing SC2 to any professional mainstream sport is a laughable comparison. in nearly every respect. apples and fire hydrants.


in that case it actually isn't. Sports as a career only pays out for those who play it at the highest lvl, yet there are a lot more ppl trying to reach that level yet never do. Same goes for sc2. ofc, the bigger the sport, the more ppl can make a living of it (however, also more ppl will try to do so)


What you call "bad basketball pro players" are better than 99% of all people taking their sport serious. Yes even Kwame Brown.

And if you make it percent wise there are way more sc2 players that make a lifing out of it then in every "regular" sport.


A difference though is that most professional players in mainstream sports only retire after nobody wants them anymore. Even star players only routinely retire after their skills have deteriorated so badly that they become end of the bench players.

SC2 on the other hand is still a personality driven game. Most of the recent Korean retirees are still competitive while the foreign scene is still populated by dozens of shitty players with outsized personalities. The best comparison is to Tim Tebow in the NFL, who is probably unknown to non-Americans. Except comparing foreigners' SC2 skills to Tebow's passing skills is a grave insult to Tebow.


So true. Not even funny.
Funny how professional sports only care about production and ability (Tim is out of a job).
eSports only cares about relate-ability.

People like Sherman because is good, not because he can talk trash.
Dae Han Min Gook Man Sae!!!
Mortal
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
2943 Posts
October 07 2013 18:40 GMT
#73
On October 08 2013 03:35 TaishiCi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 03:21 andrewlt wrote:
On October 08 2013 02:51 USvBleakill wrote:
On October 08 2013 02:41 tar wrote:
On October 08 2013 02:34 Mortal wrote:
On October 08 2013 02:33 tar wrote:
On October 08 2013 02:28 Sejanus wrote:
It's very hard to take WCS seriously with byes all over the place due to players retiring, not getting visas, choosing different tournaments to attend and so on.


You just cant do "pro" gaming forever if you arent at the very top to get a big contract, that happens in every sport.

No it does not. Even bad basketball pro players find somewhere to play, and I am pretty sure they earn more than an average progamer. Even my little country Lithuania has two basketball leagues and majority of players here are objectively very bad compared to those "at the very top", i.e. NBA stars.

But I don't mean SC2 is necessarily bad by that. It's just not where money is at.



Dunno, but I know a handful of ppl who tried to become professional football players and quit in their 20s because they were just not making a living from it or didn't have any real perspective to ever earn decently.

comparing SC2 to any professional mainstream sport is a laughable comparison. in nearly every respect. apples and fire hydrants.


in that case it actually isn't. Sports as a career only pays out for those who play it at the highest lvl, yet there are a lot more ppl trying to reach that level yet never do. Same goes for sc2. ofc, the bigger the sport, the more ppl can make a living of it (however, also more ppl will try to do so)


What you call "bad basketball pro players" are better than 99% of all people taking their sport serious. Yes even Kwame Brown.

And if you make it percent wise there are way more sc2 players that make a lifing out of it then in every "regular" sport.


A difference though is that most professional players in mainstream sports only retire after nobody wants them anymore. Even star players only routinely retire after their skills have deteriorated so badly that they become end of the bench players.

SC2 on the other hand is still a personality driven game. Most of the recent Korean retirees are still competitive while the foreign scene is still populated by dozens of shitty players with outsized personalities. The best comparison is to Tim Tebow in the NFL, who is probably unknown to non-Americans. Except comparing foreigners' SC2 skills to Tebow's passing skills is a grave insult to Tebow.


So true. Not even funny.
Funny how professional sports only care about production and ability (Tim is out of a job).
eSports only cares about relate-ability.

People like Sherman because is good, not because he can talk trash.

because I relate so much to innovation.
lol
The universe created an audience for itself.
Requiem-
Profile Joined October 2011
Uruguay162 Posts
October 07 2013 18:42 GMT
#74
BW pro scene was only kespa ??
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Sup Son
testthewest
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany274 Posts
October 07 2013 18:44 GMT
#75
On October 08 2013 03:21 andrewlt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 02:51 USvBleakill wrote:
On October 08 2013 02:41 tar wrote:
On October 08 2013 02:34 Mortal wrote:
On October 08 2013 02:33 tar wrote:
On October 08 2013 02:28 Sejanus wrote:
It's very hard to take WCS seriously with byes all over the place due to players retiring, not getting visas, choosing different tournaments to attend and so on.


You just cant do "pro" gaming forever if you arent at the very top to get a big contract, that happens in every sport.

No it does not. Even bad basketball pro players find somewhere to play, and I am pretty sure they earn more than an average progamer. Even my little country Lithuania has two basketball leagues and majority of players here are objectively very bad compared to those "at the very top", i.e. NBA stars.

But I don't mean SC2 is necessarily bad by that. It's just not where money is at.



Dunno, but I know a handful of ppl who tried to become professional football players and quit in their 20s because they were just not making a living from it or didn't have any real perspective to ever earn decently.

comparing SC2 to any professional mainstream sport is a laughable comparison. in nearly every respect. apples and fire hydrants.


in that case it actually isn't. Sports as a career only pays out for those who play it at the highest lvl, yet there are a lot more ppl trying to reach that level yet never do. Same goes for sc2. ofc, the bigger the sport, the more ppl can make a living of it (however, also more ppl will try to do so)


What you call "bad basketball pro players" are better than 99% of all people taking their sport serious. Yes even Kwame Brown.

And if you make it percent wise there are way more sc2 players that make a lifing out of it then in every "regular" sport.


A difference though is that most professional players in mainstream sports only retire after nobody wants them anymore. Even star players only routinely retire after their skills have deteriorated so badly that they become end of the bench players.

SC2 on the other hand is still a personality driven game. Most of the recent Korean retirees are still competitive while the foreign scene is still populated by dozens of shitty players with outsized personalities. The best comparison is to Tim Tebow in the NFL, who is probably unknown to non-Americans. Except comparing foreigners' SC2 skills to Tebow's passing skills is a grave insult to Tebow.



Just stop about this unholy comparison. Mainstream sports pay so much more for their atlethes in wages you can't even compare it to SC2.
Look at the prizes. So if they win their group, they get 200$??
Are you supposed to live of that?

If you are not the top 10 SC2 pros, you can't really live of it well. Even if you are top10, you won't make that much, so that you can retire after gaming, but instead must look for a job. And this is hard, if you did nothing but playing SC2.

So stop the comparisions to sports in which even mediocre players in the top leagues earn 40000 $ A WEEK no matter if they win or not!
War is not about who is right, but who is left.
NeThZOR
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
South Africa7387 Posts
October 07 2013 18:44 GMT
#76
Best of luck to him
SuperNova - 2015 | SKT1 fan for years | Dear, FlaSh, PartinG, Soulkey, Naniwa
NeThZOR
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
South Africa7387 Posts
October 07 2013 18:48 GMT
#77
On October 08 2013 03:44 testthewest wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 03:21 andrewlt wrote:
On October 08 2013 02:51 USvBleakill wrote:
On October 08 2013 02:41 tar wrote:
On October 08 2013 02:34 Mortal wrote:
On October 08 2013 02:33 tar wrote:
On October 08 2013 02:28 Sejanus wrote:
It's very hard to take WCS seriously with byes all over the place due to players retiring, not getting visas, choosing different tournaments to attend and so on.


You just cant do "pro" gaming forever if you arent at the very top to get a big contract, that happens in every sport.

No it does not. Even bad basketball pro players find somewhere to play, and I am pretty sure they earn more than an average progamer. Even my little country Lithuania has two basketball leagues and majority of players here are objectively very bad compared to those "at the very top", i.e. NBA stars.

But I don't mean SC2 is necessarily bad by that. It's just not where money is at.



Dunno, but I know a handful of ppl who tried to become professional football players and quit in their 20s because they were just not making a living from it or didn't have any real perspective to ever earn decently.

comparing SC2 to any professional mainstream sport is a laughable comparison. in nearly every respect. apples and fire hydrants.


in that case it actually isn't. Sports as a career only pays out for those who play it at the highest lvl, yet there are a lot more ppl trying to reach that level yet never do. Same goes for sc2. ofc, the bigger the sport, the more ppl can make a living of it (however, also more ppl will try to do so)


What you call "bad basketball pro players" are better than 99% of all people taking their sport serious. Yes even Kwame Brown.

And if you make it percent wise there are way more sc2 players that make a lifing out of it then in every "regular" sport.


A difference though is that most professional players in mainstream sports only retire after nobody wants them anymore. Even star players only routinely retire after their skills have deteriorated so badly that they become end of the bench players.

SC2 on the other hand is still a personality driven game. Most of the recent Korean retirees are still competitive while the foreign scene is still populated by dozens of shitty players with outsized personalities. The best comparison is to Tim Tebow in the NFL, who is probably unknown to non-Americans. Except comparing foreigners' SC2 skills to Tebow's passing skills is a grave insult to Tebow.



Just stop about this unholy comparison. Mainstream sports pay so much more for their atlethes in wages you can't even compare it to SC2.
Look at the prizes. So if they win their group, they get 200$??
Are you supposed to live of that?

If you are not the top 10 SC2 pros, you can't really live of it well. Even if you are top10, you won't make that much, so that you can retire after gaming, but instead must look for a job. And this is hard, if you did nothing but playing SC2.

So stop the comparisions to sports in which even mediocre players in the top leagues earn 40000 $ A WEEK no matter if they win or not!

You have some misconceptions here. Is HuK in the top 10 players of the world right now? Extend that to players such as Naniwa, Nerchio etc.? They are all very good foreign players, but on the whole, Koreans fill that top 10 spot. Many talented players are backed up by sponsors and get salaries, housing and training which still makes pro gaming feasible for them.

SuperNova - 2015 | SKT1 fan for years | Dear, FlaSh, PartinG, Soulkey, Naniwa
Missing-No
Profile Joined September 2011
Canada50 Posts
October 07 2013 18:53 GMT
#78
Most of these Koreans retiring are 20-25 years old. They still have a bright future ahead of them and sometimes you have to let go of what you currently have to achieve something better, and to most, these equals retiring from a very unstable gaming career. It's not about balance/dying or even enjoyment of the game. People grow up. We can't all be stuck in a gateway virtual land for all our years ^^.



boxerfred
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Germany8360 Posts
October 07 2013 19:26 GMT
#79
iloveoov returning to a shattered scene.

just kidding, guys. keep in mind that those retires are a mixture of the shrinking scene (which is due to less popularity pretty normal, sadly) and also a change of generations. not everyone can be a nestea or a grubby .

good luck, and a life full of fun and success to your, shuttle. thanks for the entertainment you brought to the game.
Undead1993
Profile Joined January 2012
Germany17651 Posts
October 07 2013 19:27 GMT
#80
oh my god, at first i read snute retiring from sc2. got a heartattack there.
hmm.. ye he didn't do too well in 2013, not surprising that he retires i think.
SEKO SEKO SEKO SEKO SEKO
dirtydurb82
Profile Joined December 2012
United States178 Posts
October 07 2013 19:29 GMT
#81
Shame to lose another Pro.

+ Show Spoiler +




Sorry, had too.
"The only way to grow E-Sports is to tell the truth." -Richard Lewis
danl9rm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States3111 Posts
October 07 2013 19:41 GMT
#82
I won't lose hope until Jaedong retires.
"Science has so well established that the preborn baby in the womb is a living human being that most pro-choice activists have conceded the point. ..since the abortion proponents have lost the science argument, they are now advocating an existential one."
igay
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Australia1178 Posts
October 07 2013 19:51 GMT
#83
On October 08 2013 01:51 JustPassingBy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 01:51 DiMano wrote:
WTF WHY EVRYONE RETIRES???????? What is wrog explain me please about 15-20 koreans have retired wtf is this...


Mandatory Military Service



not exactly the whole reasons
MVP <3 MKP <3 DRG <3
AsaZZang
Profile Joined June 2013
Germany30 Posts
October 07 2013 19:58 GMT
#84
OMG PLS STOP T__T
iLoVeLiquidHerO <3
Goldfish
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
2230 Posts
October 07 2013 19:58 GMT
#85
On October 08 2013 01:52 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 01:51 DiMano wrote:
WTF WHY EVRYONE RETIRES???????? What is wrog explain me please about 15-20 koreans have retired wtf is this...

Too much progamers. When kespa came to sc2, player pool got double


That and with the WCS system. there are now half of the tournaments (in South Korea anyway).
https://connect.microsoft.com/WindowsServerFeedback/feedback/details/741495/biggest-explorer-annoyance-automatic-sorting-windows-7-server-2008-r2-and-vista#details Allow Disable Auto Arrange in Windows 7+
TurboMaN
Profile Joined October 2005
Germany925 Posts
October 07 2013 20:00 GMT
#86
Another one bites the dust...
Sad days for SC2
e4e5nf3
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Canada599 Posts
October 07 2013 20:04 GMT
#87
On October 08 2013 05:00 TurboMaN wrote:
Another one bites the dust...
Sad days for SC2


It's been a tough year for SC2. I almost dread what 2014 will bring.

Meanwhile Coke Zero has recently decided to sponsor LoL and all the fans and players are rejoicing at how this is a momentous step for esports as a whole. Talk about opposite sides of the spectrum.
King takes Queen
rrwrwx
Profile Joined March 2011
United States247 Posts
October 07 2013 20:09 GMT
#88
People are blowing this way out of proportion. SC2 has an inflated player pool, and the majority of the top end players live in a country where they have to enter into a MANDATED military service. Players will constantly be retiring, even those at a high level. SC2 is not dying because 10 players retired in 2 months out of a group of thousands.
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
October 07 2013 20:10 GMT
#89
On October 08 2013 04:51 igay wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 01:51 JustPassingBy wrote:
On October 08 2013 01:51 DiMano wrote:
WTF WHY EVRYONE RETIRES???????? What is wrog explain me please about 15-20 koreans have retired wtf is this...


Mandatory Military Service



not exactly the whole reasons


Ah, sry. My post was written in a time, where the op claimed that the mandatory military service was the reason.
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
October 07 2013 20:15 GMT
#90
On October 08 2013 01:38 Mortal wrote:
about time some of the dead wood was burned out. the scene has ben saturated for quite a while.


Usually when my mineral field is oversaturated, I usually bring over a siege tank to take out some of my workers.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
AngrySalmon
Profile Joined June 2013
United Kingdom19 Posts
October 07 2013 20:19 GMT
#91
sc2 is dead GG NO RE
GrimZeRo
Profile Joined January 2011
United States113 Posts
October 07 2013 20:22 GMT
#92
Sad to see . Hopefully all these progamers will come back for WC4
Hearthstone, Borderlands, SC2, D3 and more! http://www.twitch.tv/promisesplays
FLuE
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1012 Posts
October 07 2013 20:34 GMT
#93
On October 08 2013 05:15 ninazerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 01:38 Mortal wrote:
about time some of the dead wood was burned out. the scene has ben saturated for quite a while.


Usually when my mineral field is oversaturated, I usually bring over a siege tank to take out some of my workers.


So true. I'll be worried when high level players that are winning events start to retire in big quantities.

Even the players that are a "big deal" because they are moving on are mostly players that haven't posted results in forever or are former big time BW players that didn't cut it in SC2 to the level that they wanted.

The scene would be much better if there were about half as many pro players. More money to go around, less fighting over the available prize pool. More chance to develop fans/following/storyline because those players will get more exposure.

SupLilSon
Profile Joined October 2011
Malaysia4123 Posts
October 07 2013 20:38 GMT
#94
On October 08 2013 02:47 tar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 02:41 Sejanus wrote:

Dunno, but I know a handful of ppl who tried to become professional football players and quit in their 20s because they were just not making a living from it or didn't have any real perspective to ever earn decently.

But of course not literally everyone can be a pro basketball player. Like not everyone can become a programmer, engineer, goon, pilot, driver and so on. All I am saying is you don't need to be a top player to earn good living in any mainstream pro sports. SC2 doesn't even compare like someone already said.


I would argue the German Bundesliga is a rather big sports league and yet statistics say 25 percent of all professional players are bankrupt at the end of their career. Excluding the 1st league numbers go up to about edit: 50 to 70 %. my bad, it's actually 30 to 50 %, sorry.

Making a living in a pro sport is damn hard even when the sport is as big as football.


The reasons professional athletes so often go bankrupt are not the same. In football it is most likely not because of a lack of funds, but because the players themselves are highly inept at managing finances, saving money and planning for the future. Lots of professional athletes grow up knowing nothing but the specialized set of skills they need for their sport. They don't know what a savings account is, they don't know how to open bank accounts, they don't know how to write checks, etc. Spending big bucks is part of the professional sports culture and on top of that athletes incur injuries without solid health care plans. They also regularly get exploited by those around them because of the money and their lack of knowledge. It's not like SC2 where the players are fairly intelligent but there just isn't money.
Locke-
Profile Joined December 2011
499 Posts
October 07 2013 20:44 GMT
#95
When will it stop?!
RuskiPanda
Profile Joined December 2011
United States2906 Posts
October 07 2013 21:03 GMT
#96
On October 08 2013 05:44 Locke- wrote:
When will it stop?!


When there's a sustainable prize pool/player ratio no doubt.
Caladan
Profile Joined May 2008
Germany1238 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-07 21:10:35
October 07 2013 21:09 GMT
#97
"too much progamers" yaddayadda...

I think everyone is agreeing in the fact that if you enjoy a game you play it. That's the point of playing. Payment or not. Why do you think thousands are starting Broodwar again. I can tell you, not for the money.

I won't say more, because it's forbidden on TL.net nowadays to say that the game is not good (in IT terms that's called "security through obscurity"). So I won't say it. Just read that above and think logical please.
Imagine42
Profile Joined July 2012
United States73 Posts
October 07 2013 21:12 GMT
#98
I'm sure this has been pointed out before, but most of those retiring are the players who really haven't/aren't putting up good showing any more and are just looking to move forward with their lives. I'm surprised it's really being made such a huge deal out of, it really should just be a farewell thread then all these retarded ded gaem posts.
Cereb
Profile Joined November 2011
Denmark3388 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-07 21:18:45
October 07 2013 21:13 GMT
#99
On October 08 2013 02:35 bouboule wrote:
thanks to hots for killing sc2



How is this not a bannable offense by now? Using these one person retiring posts to spell doom and gloom based on your own crazed theories that have nothing to do with the actual matter at hand of a player retiring?!



Anyway, best of luck to Shuttle in the future! There are just so ridiculously many excellent pro players competing at the top level right now that it's nearly impossible to succeed consistently.


Edit: Holy moly - just the posts on this page alone. I desperately need to leave this thread immidiately. I can't take this level of ridiculousness. Some folks are just too far off the mark.
"Until the very very top in almost anything, all that matters is how much work you put in. The only problem is most people can't work hard even at things they do enjoy, much less things they don't have a real passion for. -Greg "IdrA" Fields
Goldfish
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
2230 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-07 21:24:10
October 07 2013 21:17 GMT
#100
On October 08 2013 05:22 GrimZeRo wrote:
Sad to see . Hopefully all these progamers will come back for WC4


Yeah, I think WarCraft 4 has lots of potential and lots of ways to revitalize the traditional RTS genre (well as close as it can be to still be considered a "traditional RTS"). (I consider anything a "traditional RTS" if it involves building structures, controlling units, gathering resources, and managing them all manually.)

Even if SC2 was BW and just as good as BW (and BW is still doing well in South Korea, better than SC2 actually in terms of players in PC Bangs) then I'd doubt it still be able to compete with the likes of LoL or Dota.

My things on thoughts on BW compared to SC2.
+ Show Spoiler +

BW is actually easier to play and easier to get into and easier for casual compared to SC2.

Why? Because in BW, a lot of things (microing Mutalisk, Vultures, and Reavers are good examples) have much more depth. It's easy for anyone to do but microing those units is more than "how fast you do it" (Mutalisk for example, you have to know when to use attack move, attack directly, patrol, hold position "in addition" you also have to pay attention to the direction the Mutalisk are facing "before" using any of those commands because some, like attack move, require Mutalisk to be facing the target before you attack or else you'll lose speed).

For example, with Mutalisk, even people who are slow at least can practice and still get better at using them. If you don't have 400 APM, that's okay, you can still learn and practice and get better at using Mutalisk anyway because the micro has depth - it's more than simply "speed", and that applies to a lot of things in BW compared to SC2.

This kind of depth, adds more ways for players to get better and practice. When you want to start learning how to use Mutalisk, you can practice using them in so many ways to get better at using them.

In SC2, most of the micro and stuff is simply "how fast you can do it" and that's basically it. So, if you want to be better at microing, all it amounts to is "try to be faster at doing it" and that's it. Of course, positioning is also a big thing too but besides speed and knowing (for example) where to move your marines when you want to split them against banelings, that's basically all there is to microing in SC2. It's difficult, that's for sure. However, while it is difficult, if it doesn't have depth and if the only way to practice getting better at it is just simply "speed", then it's not as fun or satisfying as BW's micro and it makes the game as whole not as rewarding to play.

SC2 is a hard game and probably just as hard as BW in a way. But, it really lacks depth. I do hope LotV makes SC2 better. It's not about copying the exact mechanics in BW but it's about adding more ways to do one task.


But despite that, even if SC2 had all of those, I think traditional RTS may not be able to really compete with other games (in terms of popularity). It may have a niche following but you may wonder, what can be changed to keep the things we like and make it go above and beyond what we've been playing?

And I think WarCraft 4 has the potential.
+ Show Spoiler +

The main reason is, what BW and SC2 lacks compared to those games are a few things:

1. Variety and excitement with each new update or patch. With LoL and Dota, new heroes come out regularly, new items come out, and new cosmetics all come out regularly. With BW and SC2, they have none of those.

If you can pick between two games you like equally but one has these things you can get (cosmetics for your heroes) while the other doesn't, then you'll likely play the former.

WarCraft 4 can deal with this too since (if they are going with WC3 design) then they'll too have Heroes and all they did to do is throw in cosmetics.

And WarCraft 3 at a few points did add new heroes (Goblin Tinker, then Goblin Alchemist, and Firelord for example). Something like this in SC2 (outside of expansions) is probably not likely.

2. Dota and LoL are built around keep the game fresh and changing. Kind of like Magic: The Gathering and other games.

StarCraft is sort of meant to be a static game.

You won't have major rule changes or crazy changes happening. Dota and LoL are free to do that (and with Dota at least, not sure about LoL, they have done it several times already where they do a big change).

This keeps peoples interest in the game.

You can say, StarCraft has meta changes or how players style and trends changes. Well, Dota and LoL has that too "in addition" to the developers helping kick start things with those types of changes.

WarCraft 4, it doesn't have to the same thing as WC3 exactly, they can try more drastic changes.

3. Balancing - In Dota and LoL, due to the game works (even in competitive settings), no one has a "main hero" or "main race" or anything, no need for balance worries to limit the game.Dota and LoL don't have to worry about "Oh no, they nerfed <insert hero here> that means this team or these players can't make a living anymore because their hero or race is underpowered." because the game encourages you to use as many different heroes as possible. Plus, it makes the game refreshing.

In SC, developers can't afford to try out big changes because it'll hurt the competitive gaming scene. And another problem of "sticking to 1 race" is that it makes the game kind of boring in a way if this player plays almost exactly the same as another just because they use the exact same race.

WarCraft 4, they have a fresh start. WarCraft 4 doesn't have to use the traditional race system. Maybe, they could do it like card game or draft system where they pick from a pool of units, heroes, structures, etc, and mix them.

Yeah, that's drastically different but they could try that with WC4 and if it turns out it does work, then great because it can revitalize the traditional RTS genre.

And maybe (like card games or Dota or whatever) they regularly release new units, heroes, and stuff into the game.

Also, even if races are gone, players could still build their race to be themed around another race. Maybe a player picks only orc units or something.

Also how would mixing races together work?

Well, I was thinking there would be limitations. Like how Magic: The Gathering has colors, you don't want to always have all of 5 colors because that means you can get mana screwed more often (need 5 different types of mana).

WC4 could have mix and matching or races but still have requirements like "you need farms to build human units" or "you need orc burrows to build orc units", etc and picking farms would take up a "unit slot" that you could have used for a different unit or structure (for example).

Anyway, these are just some small ideas on how WC4 could revitalize the RTS genre and the problem of why traditional RTS aren't just as appealing anymore. I'd really like a competitive 1v1 game (I dislike team games) and I definitely am interested in WC4 if/when Blizzard makes it. The major advantage StarCraft and WarCraft have over LoL and Dota is that they don't have to be team games, and I prefer 1v1 over team games. I like how if you're doing well, you know it's because of you . Or if you are losing, you can't just go and blame team mates.

Also if WC4 does go the route of removing races and maybe trying a Magic: The Gathering thing where you can mix and match (to an extent, with certain restrictions like needing the right structures to tech up on certain races), then there will also be less balance complaints too which is nice. I do like how in Dota and LoL and MTG, the games are built around using all the different things in the game to win.



I spoilered it because it's kind of really off topic in general.

Edit - Well to defend the all the "oh noes, SC2 is dying" posts, at least it encourages discussion >.>. (Of course, I'm not helping the problem either by going into an off topic discussion on how WarCraft 4 can revitalize the genre >.>.)

Also my previous post, I was on topic (said it does have to do with KeSPA players, more players in general, and how there are much less tournaments in South Korea), so yeah that's my excuse >.>.

Though it does bring up a good point. In a way, for a lot of players I do care about but they just aren't doing well enough in SC2. I do want them to retire and do something else. Even if SC2 was super popular, there's always going to be players that are almost there but just aren't able to make a living off of the game. The same can be said for the professional scene in LoL and Dota 2 too.
https://connect.microsoft.com/WindowsServerFeedback/feedback/details/741495/biggest-explorer-annoyance-automatic-sorting-windows-7-server-2008-r2-and-vista#details Allow Disable Auto Arrange in Windows 7+
oDieN[Siege]
Profile Joined November 2009
United States2905 Posts
October 07 2013 21:18 GMT
#101
Shuttle following shuttle's footsteps, but not.
Broodwar? Yes.
말크 : ^_^~ NeO)GabuAt, vGODieN
SkullZ9
Profile Joined April 2011
Belgium2048 Posts
October 07 2013 21:18 GMT
#102
On October 08 2013 06:09 Caladan wrote:
"too much progamers" yaddayadda...

I think everyone is agreeing in the fact that if you enjoy a game you play it. That's the point of playing. Payment or not. Why do you think thousands are starting Broodwar again. I can tell you, not for the money.

I won't say more, because it's forbidden on TL.net nowadays to say that the game is not good (in IT terms that's called "security through obscurity"). So I won't say it. Just read that above and think logical please.


Ok so first of all, enjoyment has nothing to do with Shuttle's decision to retire, the reason is he has to do his military service. And you can't be a real progamer, who lives with his passion if you gain zero money from it, that's logical. There are people that plays only because they enjoy the game and they don't have any money from it in BW and in SC2, but you can't call these "progamers".
Progamers : professional gamers. Profession : you live from that
Kergy
Profile Joined December 2010
Peru2011 Posts
October 07 2013 21:30 GMT
#103
On October 08 2013 05:04 e4e5nf3 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 05:00 TurboMaN wrote:
Another one bites the dust...
Sad days for SC2


It's been a tough year for SC2. I almost dread what 2014 will bring.

Meanwhile Coke Zero has recently decided to sponsor LoL and all the fans and players are rejoicing at how this is a momentous step for esports as a whole. Talk about opposite sides of the spectrum.


b...but riot doesnt have a sustainable model and their scene only relies on their money!
Everyday Girl's Day~!
Caladan
Profile Joined May 2008
Germany1238 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-07 21:43:07
October 07 2013 21:41 GMT
#104
On October 08 2013 06:18 SkullZ9 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 06:09 Caladan wrote:
"too much progamers" yaddayadda...

I think everyone is agreeing in the fact that if you enjoy a game you play it. That's the point of playing. Payment or not. Why do you think thousands are starting Broodwar again. I can tell you, not for the money.

I won't say more, because it's forbidden on TL.net nowadays to say that the game is not good (in IT terms that's called "security through obscurity"). So I won't say it. Just read that above and think logical please.


Ok so first of all, enjoyment has nothing to do with Shuttle's decision to retire, the reason is he has to do his military service. And you can't be a real progamer, who lives with his passion if you gain zero money from it, that's logical. There are people that plays only because they enjoy the game and they don't have any money from it in BW and in SC2, but you can't call these "progamers".
Progamers : professional gamers. Profession : you live from that


I think he wrote "I retire SC2". He did not write "I retire as a progamer but will continue playing". Please read the OP properly before spreading false information... :/

Besides, having to go *next year* to military is not really a reason to stop playing the game SC2 now, hm?
I'm studying but yet I play plenty of games throughout the day.
Specialist
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States803 Posts
October 07 2013 21:42 GMT
#105
As a wiseman that I am says, game should be played as a hobby , for entertainment. Once you try to make it a profession, you will only end up in abyss surrounded by hopelessness and destruction of self worth
Lorch
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany3683 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-07 21:44:44
October 07 2013 21:43 GMT
#106
On October 08 2013 05:04 e4e5nf3 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 05:00 TurboMaN wrote:
Another one bites the dust...
Sad days for SC2


It's been a tough year for SC2. I almost dread what 2014 will bring.

Meanwhile Coke Zero has recently decided to sponsor LoL and all the fans and players are rejoicing at how this is a momentous step for esports as a whole. Talk about opposite sides of the spectrum.


Coca-cola sponsored gsl in 2011 and an osl in like 2001. RIOT propaganda may be strong, but coke doing something in esports is not new and not a mile stone and not a momentous step for esports. On top of that the energy drink that sponsors IM is owned by cola. Riot may sell it's game as THE esport and everything connected to it as MONUMENTAL STEPS for esports, but that is barely ever true. There is very little that actually hasn't done shit in esports, heck back in 06 mlg was sponsored by scion and boost mobile.

OT: Oh noes somebody who never got any results after years of playing decides to retire :O And what you say he has to do a mandatory military service? I guess thats really bad for our scene and all.
jax1492
Profile Joined November 2009
United States1632 Posts
October 07 2013 21:47 GMT
#107
sigh ... what is going on. good luck shuttle.
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
October 07 2013 21:51 GMT
#108
They rather enjoy their time away from SC2 than play it before military service. The big stars of the BW days could get away with delaying their service for some time and heck, some even got lucky enough to join the Air Force ACE team. This news really isn't so bad. Just creates more spots for people who want to continue on. I wish him the best.
Kergy
Profile Joined December 2010
Peru2011 Posts
October 07 2013 21:57 GMT
#109
On October 08 2013 06:43 Lorch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 05:04 e4e5nf3 wrote:
On October 08 2013 05:00 TurboMaN wrote:
Another one bites the dust...
Sad days for SC2


It's been a tough year for SC2. I almost dread what 2014 will bring.

Meanwhile Coke Zero has recently decided to sponsor LoL and all the fans and players are rejoicing at how this is a momentous step for esports as a whole. Talk about opposite sides of the spectrum.


Coca-cola sponsored gsl in 2011 and an osl in like 2001. RIOT propaganda may be strong, but coke doing something in esports is not new and not a mile stone and not a momentous step for esports. On top of that the energy drink that sponsors IM is owned by cola. Riot may sell it's game as THE esport and everything connected to it as MONUMENTAL STEPS for esports, but that is barely ever true. There is very little that actually hasn't done shit in esports, heck back in 06 mlg was sponsored by scion and boost mobile.

OT: Oh noes somebody who never got any results after years of playing decides to retire :O And what you say he has to do a mandatory military service? I guess thats really bad for our scene and all.


Wasn't it Pepsi that sponsored GSL, anyways what has happened since then? GSL is being sponsored by a small online store and there's no pro BW anymore. If anything, Riot is picking up where the other big games stopped. American Express and Coca Cola (Nissan too iirc) are putting money for a video game in a place that's not Korea, if you don't consider that a huge step for #esports I don't know what else any company could do to convince you.
Everyday Girl's Day~!
Lumi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States1612 Posts
October 07 2013 21:58 GMT
#110
you were a fun new talent to watch earlier in hots, was trying to turn terran friends onto your stream. take c are
twitter.com/lumigaming - DongRaeGu is the One True Dong - /r/onetruedong
mikkmagro
Profile Joined April 2011
Malta1513 Posts
October 07 2013 22:25 GMT
#111
On October 08 2013 06:43 Lorch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 05:04 e4e5nf3 wrote:
On October 08 2013 05:00 TurboMaN wrote:
Another one bites the dust...
Sad days for SC2


It's been a tough year for SC2. I almost dread what 2014 will bring.

Meanwhile Coke Zero has recently decided to sponsor LoL and all the fans and players are rejoicing at how this is a momentous step for esports as a whole. Talk about opposite sides of the spectrum.


Coca-cola sponsored gsl in 2011 and an osl in like 2001. RIOT propaganda may be strong, but coke doing something in esports is not new and not a mile stone and not a momentous step for esports. On top of that the energy drink that sponsors IM is owned by cola. Riot may sell it's game as THE esport and everything connected to it as MONUMENTAL STEPS for esports, but that is barely ever true. There is very little that actually hasn't done shit in esports, heck back in 06 mlg was sponsored by scion and boost mobile.

OT: Oh noes somebody who never got any results after years of playing decides to retire :O And what you say he has to do a mandatory military service? I guess thats really bad for our scene and all.

Coke used to sponsor Snute when he was on GL :D
mousesports, Team Acer, Fnatic!
canikizu
Profile Joined September 2010
4860 Posts
October 07 2013 22:38 GMT
#112
On October 08 2013 06:43 Lorch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 05:04 e4e5nf3 wrote:
On October 08 2013 05:00 TurboMaN wrote:
Another one bites the dust...
Sad days for SC2


It's been a tough year for SC2. I almost dread what 2014 will bring.

Meanwhile Coke Zero has recently decided to sponsor LoL and all the fans and players are rejoicing at how this is a momentous step for esports as a whole. Talk about opposite sides of the spectrum.


Coca-cola sponsored gsl in 2011 and an osl in like 2001. RIOT propaganda may be strong, but coke doing something in esports is not new and not a mile stone and not a momentous step for esports. On top of that the energy drink that sponsors IM is owned by cola. Riot may sell it's game as THE esport and everything connected to it as MONUMENTAL STEPS for esports, but that is barely ever true. There is very little that actually hasn't done shit in esports, heck back in 06 mlg was sponsored by scion and boost mobile.

OT: Oh noes somebody who never got any results after years of playing decides to retire :O And what you say he has to do a mandatory military service? I guess thats really bad for our scene and all.

There're differences though. In those cases, Coke sponsored existing tournaments/leagues, without them the tournaments are still there.
In the LoL case, the league series is formed and organized by CokeZero. If they were out, the whole thing would go out.
Glenn313
Profile Joined August 2011
United States475 Posts
October 07 2013 23:11 GMT
#113
So many people are retiring..
Hey man
yokohama
Profile Joined February 2005
United States1116 Posts
October 07 2013 23:46 GMT
#114
Almost every morning I wake up and another retirement has happened. Sad times.
DumJumJmyWum
Profile Joined March 2011
United States75 Posts
October 07 2013 23:52 GMT
#115
When I saw his new ID I initially thought it was "Men Talking" and not "Mental King" Thanks for the games shuttle!
SlayerS_BunkiE
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada1707 Posts
October 08 2013 00:07 GMT
#116
and another retirement...
iloveby.SlayerS_BunkiE[Shield]
krooked
Profile Joined May 2011
376 Posts
October 08 2013 00:54 GMT
#117
It truly is ridiculous that in every thread so many people talk about "healthy downsizing" and "military service".

Players are retiring because they don't see a future in the game. I won't even go into if they enjoy it or not - They simply do not believe it to be lucrative to keep playing. Because they know that the scene is on a steep decline. If you can't see this by now I wonder if its just pure denial or stupidity.

Nobody is saying that the pro scene will die completely, but sc2 will fall until it is a somewhat niche game for a couple of years before it dies off at last. But don't you guys worry about that, just enjoy the game. Because after all, you are enjoying the game, right?
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
October 08 2013 01:31 GMT
#118
On October 08 2013 09:54 krooked wrote:
It truly is ridiculous that in every thread so many people talk about "healthy downsizing" and "military service".

Players are retiring because they don't see a future in the game. I won't even go into if they enjoy it or not - They simply do not believe it to be lucrative to keep playing. Because they know that the scene is on a steep decline. If you can't see this by now I wonder if its just pure denial or stupidity.

Nobody is saying that the pro scene will die completely, but sc2 will fall until it is a somewhat niche game for a couple of years before it dies off at last. But don't you guys worry about that, just enjoy the game. Because after all, you are enjoying the game, right?

What's truly ridiculous is people like you who actually believe the state of the scene has any impact on a player like Shuttle's earnings.

Name an Esport that will support a player without a team, without any tournament results and without good stream numbers. Go ahead. We can wait.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Laryleprakon
Profile Joined May 2011
New Zealand9496 Posts
October 08 2013 01:38 GMT
#119
Good luck to him

Getting closer to the end of the year and no info about next years WCS season yet, I guess we will see a bit more of this for a few months.
Darkhorse
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States23455 Posts
October 08 2013 01:43 GMT
#120
Probably some serious frustration with WCS EU and getting close but not far enough to play offline.
WriterRecently Necro'd (?)
CarlMikael
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden1043 Posts
October 08 2013 02:05 GMT
#121
Used to watch Mentalking's stream everyday a long time ago.
Sad to see him go
fuzzylogic44
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada2633 Posts
October 08 2013 02:18 GMT
#122
There are about 100 more korean pros than can be sustained. Retirements help this. Good luck to Shuttle.
tshi
Profile Joined September 2012
United States2495 Posts
October 08 2013 02:30 GMT
#123
On October 08 2013 11:18 fuzzylogic44 wrote:
There are about 100 more korean pros than can be sustained. Retirements help this. Good luck to Shuttle.

I dont know about that; is eSports dying??????

jk idc lol
scrub - inexperienced player with relatively little skill and excessive arrogance
ViceroPrime
Profile Joined May 2013
Kyrgyzstan2 Posts
October 08 2013 05:38 GMT
#124
Its time to add to Liquidbets slots for "who will retire next"
Daswollvieh
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
5553 Posts
October 08 2013 06:16 GMT
#125
Hardly noticed Shuttle at all. Makes sense to retire when you can´t make a splash.
Advantageous
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
China1350 Posts
October 08 2013 06:40 GMT
#126
WTFFFFFFFFFFF Sigh... grim day for sc2...
"Because I am BossToss" -MC ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ raise your dongers ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ I'm sure that all of my fellow class mates viewed me as the Adonis of the Class of 2015 already. -Xenocider, EG, ieF 2013 Champion.
ArTiFaKs
Profile Joined September 2013
United States1229 Posts
October 08 2013 07:36 GMT
#127
Why come to post about a game that you hate? Why follow an Esports community that apparently you don't even enjoy? This is ridiculous people, new players looking to get into this game are just guna be depressed if they come here. I wouldn't blame them with all the negativity going around. SC2 is a cutthroat game and some people can't handle it. Unfortunately a game like that trying to compete with a game like LoL where everyone and their moms can compete is ridiculous and impossible. Hardcore games like SC and suckass games like LoL will never be the same and thank god, sc2 is highly competitive and new players coming through just get better and better, so it's actually a good thing that these old school players are getting beat out of tournaments because that means the player base is evolving and getting much more skilled. Theres thousands and thousands of people still watching tournament streams all over the world so this game is nowhere near dead. Take this negativity elsewhere it's getting really annoying.
There are things known, and things unknown, and in-between are the doors.
documents
Profile Joined October 2013
Armenia3 Posts
October 08 2013 07:50 GMT
#128
--- Nuked ---
Aeromi
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
France14460 Posts
October 08 2013 10:15 GMT
#129
Shuttle retires because he knows that in 2014 we will have a region lock.


Source : http://www.millenium.org/starcraft-2/accueil/esport/fin-de-route-pour-shuttle-le-terran-coreen-shuttle-ex-clarity-gaming-annonce-son-depart-de-starcraft-2-96274
https://twitter.com/DrAeromi | Updates on live tournaments: @StarCrafteSport
tar
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany991 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-08 10:31:49
October 08 2013 10:30 GMT
#130
On October 08 2013 06:41 Caladan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 06:18 SkullZ9 wrote:
On October 08 2013 06:09 Caladan wrote:
"too much progamers" yaddayadda...

I think everyone is agreeing in the fact that if you enjoy a game you play it. That's the point of playing. Payment or not. Why do you think thousands are starting Broodwar again. I can tell you, not for the money.

I won't say more, because it's forbidden on TL.net nowadays to say that the game is not good (in IT terms that's called "security through obscurity"). So I won't say it. Just read that above and think logical please.


Ok so first of all, enjoyment has nothing to do with Shuttle's decision to retire, the reason is he has to do his military service. And you can't be a real progamer, who lives with his passion if you gain zero money from it, that's logical. There are people that plays only because they enjoy the game and they don't have any money from it in BW and in SC2, but you can't call these "progamers".
Progamers : professional gamers. Profession : you live from that


I think he wrote "I retire SC2". He did not write "I retire as a progamer but will continue playing". Please read the OP properly before spreading false information... :/

Besides, having to go *next year* to military is not really a reason to stop playing the game SC2 now, hm?
I'm studying but yet I play plenty of games throughout the day.


you don't retire from a hobby. Nobody's spreading false information, you are rather interpreting something in your own ways, that doesn't make it any more true though...
whoever I pick for my anti team turns gosu
Lorch
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany3683 Posts
October 08 2013 12:00 GMT
#131
On October 08 2013 19:15 Aeromi wrote:
Shuttle retires because he knows that in 2014 we will have a region lock.


Source : http://www.millenium.org/starcraft-2/accueil/esport/fin-de-route-pour-shuttle-le-terran-coreen-shuttle-ex-clarity-gaming-annonce-son-depart-de-starcraft-2-96274


Yay lets post articles in foreign languages with no translation and use them as proof.
ScoutWBF
Profile Joined April 2005
Germany605 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-08 12:09:38
October 08 2013 12:08 GMT
#132
I can confirm that what he wrote is actually correct. The article says that he retired cause of the region lock for WCS 2014 and that he is scared of having a mediocre year in SC2 (Due to WCS Korea) before his military service.

Also complaining in a foreign language about another guy posting in a foreign language. He translated the important part, that's good enough imo. :3
Rickyvalle21
Profile Joined July 2012
United States320 Posts
October 08 2013 12:28 GMT
#133
Idk why people are comparing professional athletes living vs epsorts players living. There are superstar athletes like Kobe and Lebron that make more then Flash Mvp and MC in there lifetime combined in 1 month.
people say practice is perfect but if nothing is perfect whats the point in practicing?
iloveav
Profile Joined November 2008
Poland1478 Posts
October 08 2013 13:48 GMT
#134
This is not so surprising.
SC2 is in a steady slight decline in terms of popularity and Interest.
Its unavoidable that the players who dont see a strong future or at least have a huge passion for the game would want to stay just becouse they "can".
Obviously if its due to something like mandatory military service, its a different story, but still.
aka LRM)Cats_Paw.
Incubus1993
Profile Joined February 2013
Canada140 Posts
October 08 2013 16:15 GMT
#135
lol another one bites the dust
"I like to keep an open mind, but not so open my brains fall out."
krooked
Profile Joined May 2011
376 Posts
October 08 2013 16:24 GMT
#136
On October 08 2013 10:31 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 09:54 krooked wrote:
It truly is ridiculous that in every thread so many people talk about "healthy downsizing" and "military service".

Players are retiring because they don't see a future in the game. I won't even go into if they enjoy it or not - They simply do not believe it to be lucrative to keep playing. Because they know that the scene is on a steep decline. If you can't see this by now I wonder if its just pure denial or stupidity.

Nobody is saying that the pro scene will die completely, but sc2 will fall until it is a somewhat niche game for a couple of years before it dies off at last. But don't you guys worry about that, just enjoy the game. Because after all, you are enjoying the game, right?

What's truly ridiculous is people like you who actually believe the state of the scene has any impact on a player like Shuttle's earnings.

Name an Esport that will support a player without a team, without any tournament results and without good stream numbers. Go ahead. We can wait.


Where did I mention Shuttle? Yes, I am aware that this thread is about Shuttle but as I'm sure you've noticed all these retirement-threads tend to have a theme these days. Its "Great stuff, scene is gonna be better, too many players atm" vs "SC2 ded gem". Both sides are too extreme, there is truth in both but whats crazy is that the "ded gem" ppl are mostly trolling while those who cite downsizing is actually dead serious.
Aeromi
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
France14460 Posts
October 08 2013 16:30 GMT
#137
On October 08 2013 21:00 Lorch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 19:15 Aeromi wrote:
Shuttle retires because he knows that in 2014 we will have a region lock.


Source : http://www.millenium.org/starcraft-2/accueil/esport/fin-de-route-pour-shuttle-le-terran-coreen-shuttle-ex-clarity-gaming-annonce-son-depart-de-starcraft-2-96274


Yay lets post articles in foreign languages with no translation and use them as proof.



I translated the main part of the article, I don't think you want to know that Shuttle is 19 ans he has not win anything.
https://twitter.com/DrAeromi | Updates on live tournaments: @StarCrafteSport
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 08 2013 16:39 GMT
#138
On October 09 2013 01:24 krooked wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2013 10:31 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On October 08 2013 09:54 krooked wrote:
It truly is ridiculous that in every thread so many people talk about "healthy downsizing" and "military service".

Players are retiring because they don't see a future in the game. I won't even go into if they enjoy it or not - They simply do not believe it to be lucrative to keep playing. Because they know that the scene is on a steep decline. If you can't see this by now I wonder if its just pure denial or stupidity.

Nobody is saying that the pro scene will die completely, but sc2 will fall until it is a somewhat niche game for a couple of years before it dies off at last. But don't you guys worry about that, just enjoy the game. Because after all, you are enjoying the game, right?

What's truly ridiculous is people like you who actually believe the state of the scene has any impact on a player like Shuttle's earnings.

Name an Esport that will support a player without a team, without any tournament results and without good stream numbers. Go ahead. We can wait.


Where did I mention Shuttle? Yes, I am aware that this thread is about Shuttle but as I'm sure you've noticed all these retirement-threads tend to have a theme these days. Its "Great stuff, scene is gonna be better, too many players atm" vs "SC2 ded gem". Both sides are too extreme, there is truth in both but whats crazy is that the "ded gem" ppl are mostly trolling while those who cite downsizing is actually dead serious.

The trolls are pretty serious too. And the downsizing is natural, since many, but not all, of the players retiring haven't won anything or accomplished much. Right now any team less player can claim he is retiring, even if his professional career never has nothing of note. But people take these claims as some sort of evidence of the game dying.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Die4Ever
Profile Joined August 2010
United States17676 Posts
October 08 2013 17:05 GMT
#139
WCS KR 2014 will be very interesting with a full reset on Code S/A and many returning koreans lol.
"Expert" mods4ever.com
lolfail9001
Profile Joined August 2013
Russian Federation40190 Posts
October 08 2013 17:08 GMT
#140
On October 09 2013 02:05 Die4Ever wrote:
WCS KR 2014 will be very interesting with a full reset on Code S/A and many returning koreans lol.

In fact i am sure that Soulkey and probably lot more favorites won't qualify at all in those qualifiers.
Yes, Korean scene is THAT stacked.
DeMoN pulls off a Miracle and Flies to the Moon
geokilla
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada8240 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-08 17:13:38
October 08 2013 17:12 GMT
#141
On October 09 2013 02:08 lolfail9001 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2013 02:05 Die4Ever wrote:
WCS KR 2014 will be very interesting with a full reset on Code S/A and many returning koreans lol.

In fact i am sure that Soulkey and probably lot more favorites won't qualify at all in those qualifiers.
Yes, Korean scene is THAT stacked.

Korea was always stacked. GSL and OSL will be prestigious once again. WCS NA and EU on the other hand... *yawn*

Can anyone in NA beat Polt? I'd say Suppy and DeMuslim and Scarlett has a chance, off the top of my head. But otherwise, Polt would probably be the favourite?
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
October 08 2013 17:18 GMT
#142
On October 09 2013 02:08 lolfail9001 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2013 02:05 Die4Ever wrote:
WCS KR 2014 will be very interesting with a full reset on Code S/A and many returning koreans lol.

In fact i am sure that Soulkey and probably lot more favorites won't qualify at all in those qualifiers.
Yes, Korean scene is THAT stacked.


If thats the only change and all the NA and EU koreans come back there will be a lot of retirements :/
WCS Korea alone isnt enough to sustain so many players, they would need more tourneys.
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
krooked
Profile Joined May 2011
376 Posts
October 08 2013 17:23 GMT
#143
On October 09 2013 01:39 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2013 01:24 krooked wrote:
On October 08 2013 10:31 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On October 08 2013 09:54 krooked wrote:
It truly is ridiculous that in every thread so many people talk about "healthy downsizing" and "military service".

Players are retiring because they don't see a future in the game. I won't even go into if they enjoy it or not - They simply do not believe it to be lucrative to keep playing. Because they know that the scene is on a steep decline. If you can't see this by now I wonder if its just pure denial or stupidity.

Nobody is saying that the pro scene will die completely, but sc2 will fall until it is a somewhat niche game for a couple of years before it dies off at last. But don't you guys worry about that, just enjoy the game. Because after all, you are enjoying the game, right?

What's truly ridiculous is people like you who actually believe the state of the scene has any impact on a player like Shuttle's earnings.

Name an Esport that will support a player without a team, without any tournament results and without good stream numbers. Go ahead. We can wait.


Where did I mention Shuttle? Yes, I am aware that this thread is about Shuttle but as I'm sure you've noticed all these retirement-threads tend to have a theme these days. Its "Great stuff, scene is gonna be better, too many players atm" vs "SC2 ded gem". Both sides are too extreme, there is truth in both but whats crazy is that the "ded gem" ppl are mostly trolling while those who cite downsizing is actually dead serious.

The trolls are pretty serious too. And the downsizing is natural, since many, but not all, of the players retiring haven't won anything or accomplished much. Right now any team less player can claim he is retiring, even if his professional career never has nothing of note. But people take these claims as some sort of evidence of the game dying.


I think the trolls more likes to justify leaving starcraft. Personally I almost never play sc2 anymore and mostly play league or bw, and I can understand why the trolls are saying what they are. My view on starcraft2's future went from "hopeful" to pessimistic the second I realized its not THAT important to me.

Players retiring can easily be explained as natural downsizing: I agree that most of the players retiring aren't really big names a tall, they are high level jobbers at best. And I certainly don't think the scene is literally going to die anytime soon. But its the combination of a lot of players retiring, statements from players like Bisu, the obvious problems sc2 is facing in Korea, in game problems (deathball vs deathball, stale meta etc are common things people complain about), the fact that league is doing so very well and that recruitment for sc2 doesn't seem very big - All the friends I know who bought sc2 have went on to other games, and when I try to recruit new players they just don't like the game. I think this goes for a lot of other people.

Basically, sc2 is in a tight spot right now. Not a "sc2 is dead and nobody will be playing this game in 2014"-tight, but still.
DoubleAce
Profile Joined June 2009
United States108 Posts
October 09 2013 04:55 GMT
#144
Is he retiring from esports for good? Or is he like Bisu and going back to BW? Cause I see him stream sometime..
ejac
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States1195 Posts
October 09 2013 05:03 GMT
#145
On October 09 2013 13:55 DoubleAce wrote:
Is he retiring from esports for good? Or is he like Bisu and going back to BW? Cause I see him stream sometime..

That's a different Shuttle. The one who streams bw played on STX Soul back in bw.
esq>n
AyaaLa
Profile Joined February 2012
Spain629 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-09 07:20:58
October 09 2013 07:20 GMT
#146
On October 09 2013 02:12 geokilla wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2013 02:08 lolfail9001 wrote:
On October 09 2013 02:05 Die4Ever wrote:
WCS KR 2014 will be very interesting with a full reset on Code S/A and many returning koreans lol.

In fact i am sure that Soulkey and probably lot more favorites won't qualify at all in those qualifiers.
Yes, Korean scene is THAT stacked.

Korea was always stacked. GSL and OSL will be prestigious once again. WCS NA and EU on the other hand... *yawn*

Can anyone in NA beat Polt? I'd say Suppy and DeMuslim and Scarlett has a chance, off the top of my head. But otherwise, Polt would probably be the favourite?


DeMuslim is nowhere near to beat Scarlett and Polt. They are on another planets compared to him. He will keep chokeing in "important" tournaments like always. I don''t understand the hype of DeMuslim, its on the level on the Lucifron hype. It's annoying as hell. Why cant people just be realistic????? =.=
i balance whine all the time.
AzZa651
Profile Joined January 2011
Denmark39 Posts
October 09 2013 09:45 GMT
#147
See you on the other side Shuttle.~
lessQQmorePEWPEW
Profile Joined November 2011
Jamaica921 Posts
October 09 2013 10:12 GMT
#148
gg sc2. oh hai dota 2 :D
Why drink and drive when you can smoke and fly - Bob Marley
mantequilla
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
Turkey779 Posts
October 10 2013 07:24 GMT
#149
NOOOOOOooooooo!!!
Age of Mythology forever!
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