
i retired sc2 , thanks to all my fans and friends, I met through pro gaming, I will never forget it
— 최성진 (@shuttleSC2) October 7, 2013
Forum Index > SC2 General |
mikkmagro
Malta1513 Posts
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Aeromi
France14456 Posts
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SkullZ9
Belgium2048 Posts
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Jade
Poland289 Posts
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Qwyn
United States2779 Posts
(Oh I know the difference, don't you worry ^^). | ||
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lichter
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
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KanoCoke
Japan863 Posts
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TheBloodyDwarf
Finland7524 Posts
On October 08 2013 01:24 JustPassingBy wrote: Makes sense. The only thing on the line today are seedings for next year's code S qualifier. No prize money, no WCS points, nothing else. If he plans on attending military service next year, then there is nothing he can win, except possibly screwing up the seeding of the qualifier if he's a bit mischievous. ![]() There are money and WCS points on line. Who comes first in his group gets 200 $ and second gets 100$. Those 8 players that got through bracket stage got 300$. | ||
argonautdice
Canada2704 Posts
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TheBloodyDwarf
Finland7524 Posts
On October 08 2013 01:36 argonautdice wrote: stop retiring everyone ![]() Way too much progamers. | ||
Mortal
2943 Posts
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nachtkap
Germany195 Posts
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KaiserKieran
United States615 Posts
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NovemberstOrm
Canada16217 Posts
On October 08 2013 01:38 nachtkap wrote: Is there a source for this? i.e. through what outlet did Zoia say it. He's broadcasting the wcs eu challenger league matches. | ||
Tidus Mino
United Kingdom1108 Posts
On October 08 2013 01:24 JustPassingBy wrote: Makes sense. The only thing on the line today are seedings for next year's code S qualifier. No prize money, no WCS points, nothing else. If he plans on attending military service next year, then there is nothing he can win, except possibly screwing up the seeding of the qualifier if he's a bit mischievous. ![]() Not technically true, I spoke with one of the higher up admins from ESL and it seems that it's not decided what will happen next year as far as qualifying for premier goes, so it might be that the top players from this challenger are in fact premier next season. | ||
JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On October 08 2013 01:35 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 01:24 JustPassingBy wrote: Makes sense. The only thing on the line today are seedings for next year's code S qualifier. No prize money, no WCS points, nothing else. If he plans on attending military service next year, then there is nothing he can win, except possibly screwing up the seeding of the qualifier if he's a bit mischievous. ![]() There are money and WCS points on line. Who comes first in his group gets 200 $ and second gets 100$. Those 8 players that got through bracket stage got 300$. Huh? I thought the 100$ and 200$ are handed out depending on when you were eliminated from the bracket stage earlier? | ||
chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On October 08 2013 01:44 JustPassingBy wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 01:35 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: On October 08 2013 01:24 JustPassingBy wrote: Makes sense. The only thing on the line today are seedings for next year's code S qualifier. No prize money, no WCS points, nothing else. If he plans on attending military service next year, then there is nothing he can win, except possibly screwing up the seeding of the qualifier if he's a bit mischievous. ![]() There are money and WCS points on line. Who comes first in his group gets 200 $ and second gets 100$. Those 8 players that got through bracket stage got 300$. Huh? I thought the 100$ and 200$ are handed out depending on when you were eliminated from the bracket stage earlier? That would be exceptionally weird because no one outside of those that have made it through bracket stage have "placed" in challenger league yet | ||
DiMano
Korea (South)2066 Posts
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On October 08 2013 01:51 DiMano wrote: WTF WHY EVRYONE RETIRES???????? What is wrog explain me please about 15-20 koreans have retired wtf is this... Mandatory Military Service | ||
SHOOG
United States1639 Posts
GL to Shuttle. | ||
TheBloodyDwarf
Finland7524 Posts
On October 08 2013 01:51 DiMano wrote: WTF WHY EVRYONE RETIRES???????? What is wrog explain me please about 15-20 koreans have retired wtf is this... Too much progamers. When kespa came to sc2, player pool got double | ||
DiMano
Korea (South)2066 Posts
On October 08 2013 01:51 JustPassingBy wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 01:51 DiMano wrote: WTF WHY EVRYONE RETIRES???????? What is wrog explain me please about 15-20 koreans have retired wtf is this... Mandatory Military Service No just no | ||
Mortal
2943 Posts
On October 08 2013 01:53 DiMano wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 01:51 JustPassingBy wrote: On October 08 2013 01:51 DiMano wrote: WTF WHY EVRYONE RETIRES???????? What is wrog explain me please about 15-20 koreans have retired wtf is this... Mandatory Military Service No just no what do you mean? there's: A- too many progamers. and B- mandatory military service is a thing in SK. nothing about that statement is incorrect. | ||
OneSpeed
Norway47 Posts
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TaShadan
Germany1961 Posts
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jtp118
United States137 Posts
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sharkie
Austria18324 Posts
On October 08 2013 01:51 JustPassingBy wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 01:51 DiMano wrote: WTF WHY EVRYONE RETIRES???????? What is wrog explain me please about 15-20 koreans have retired wtf is this... Mandatory Military Service more like too many players, not enough tournaments | ||
AyaaLa
Spain629 Posts
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DiMano
Korea (South)2066 Posts
On October 08 2013 01:57 Mortal wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 01:53 DiMano wrote: On October 08 2013 01:51 JustPassingBy wrote: On October 08 2013 01:51 DiMano wrote: WTF WHY EVRYONE RETIRES???????? What is wrog explain me please about 15-20 koreans have retired wtf is this... Mandatory Military Service No just no what do you mean? there's: A- too many progamers. and B- mandatory military service is a thing in SK. nothing about that statement is incorrect. A he is 19 years old e.g. HyuN is 25 B Shuttle is in the WCS and not eliminated | ||
HolydaKing
21254 Posts
On October 08 2013 02:11 sharkie wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 01:51 JustPassingBy wrote: On October 08 2013 01:51 DiMano wrote: WTF WHY EVRYONE RETIRES???????? What is wrog explain me please about 15-20 koreans have retired wtf is this... Mandatory Military Service more like too many players, not enough tournaments tbh there are plenty tournaments (less so in Korea though), way too many to watch. and i don't like that too much. what's not there though is stable payment from teams like in BW times, i assume. but yeah there are too many players too. | ||
OmniEulogy
Canada6591 Posts
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Mortal
2943 Posts
On October 08 2013 02:14 DiMano wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 01:57 Mortal wrote: On October 08 2013 01:53 DiMano wrote: On October 08 2013 01:51 JustPassingBy wrote: On October 08 2013 01:51 DiMano wrote: WTF WHY EVRYONE RETIRES???????? What is wrog explain me please about 15-20 koreans have retired wtf is this... Mandatory Military Service No just no what do you mean? there's: A- too many progamers. and B- mandatory military service is a thing in SK. nothing about that statement is incorrect. A he is 19 years old e.g. HyuN is 25 B Shuttle is in the WCS and not eliminated you're literally addressing nothing with those two statements. they mean less than nothing in this context (other than WCS, but he was still hardly in contention for any big prize or a legitimate payday). he was never going to win WCS. he knows that. | ||
Dreamer.T
United States3584 Posts
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never_Nal
Costa Rica676 Posts
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MrMercuG
Netherlands2389 Posts
On October 08 2013 01:51 JustPassingBy wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 01:51 DiMano wrote: WTF WHY EVRYONE RETIRES???????? What is wrog explain me please about 15-20 koreans have retired wtf is this... Mandatory Military Service Lol don't act like that's the only reason. | ||
Juicy Orange
Canada133 Posts
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Micro_Jackson
Germany2002 Posts
The thruth will most likely be in the middle. You just cant do "pro" gaming forever if you arent at the very top to get a big contract, that happens in every sport. Ask college players. There is the military service in korea and that the sc2 player pool is just too big to support so many players on a market that is relatively isolated. And some maybe dont like sc2. | ||
Sejanus
Lithuania550 Posts
You just cant do "pro" gaming forever if you arent at the very top to get a big contract, that happens in every sport. No it does not. Even bad basketball pro players find somewhere to play, and I am pretty sure they earn more than an average progamer. Even my little country Lithuania has two basketball leagues and majority of players here are objectively very bad compared to those "at the very top", i.e. NBA stars. But I don't mean SC2 is necessarily bad by that. It's just not where money is at. | ||
renaissanceMAN
United States1840 Posts
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jackslater
Russian Federation604 Posts
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tar
Germany991 Posts
On October 08 2013 02:28 Sejanus wrote: It's very hard to take WCS seriously with byes all over the place due to players retiring, not getting visas, choosing different tournaments to attend and so on. Show nested quote + You just cant do "pro" gaming forever if you arent at the very top to get a big contract, that happens in every sport. No it does not. Even bad basketball pro players find somewhere to play, and I am pretty sure they earn more than an average progamer. Even my little country Lithuania has two basketball leagues and majority of players here are objectively very bad compared to those "at the very top", i.e. NBA stars. But I don't mean SC2 is necessarily bad by that. It's just not where money is at. Dunno, but I know a handful of ppl who tried to become professional football players and quit in their 20s because they were just not making a living from it or didn't have any real perspective to ever earn decently. edit: also gl in the future shuttle! | ||
mechengineer123
Ukraine711 Posts
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Mortal
2943 Posts
On October 08 2013 02:33 tar wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 02:28 Sejanus wrote: It's very hard to take WCS seriously with byes all over the place due to players retiring, not getting visas, choosing different tournaments to attend and so on. You just cant do "pro" gaming forever if you arent at the very top to get a big contract, that happens in every sport. No it does not. Even bad basketball pro players find somewhere to play, and I am pretty sure they earn more than an average progamer. Even my little country Lithuania has two basketball leagues and majority of players here are objectively very bad compared to those "at the very top", i.e. NBA stars. But I don't mean SC2 is necessarily bad by that. It's just not where money is at. Dunno, but I know a handful of ppl who tried to become professional football players and quit in their 20s because they were just not making a living from it or didn't have any real perspective to ever earn decently. comparing SC2 to any professional mainstream sport is a laughable comparison. in nearly every respect. apples and fire hydrants. | ||
bouboule
American Samoa62 Posts
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Erik.TheRed
United States1655 Posts
And I know it's a sad situation, but I can't stop humming this song lately. + Show Spoiler + | ||
10bulgares
352 Posts
The global downsizing of starcraft is also a very real phenomena. Compared to the popularity of BW, SC2 is nothing in Korea, I've heard. What the people enjoy at the moment is LOL. Of course it follows that the sponsors will disengage and many players will quit due to the lack of ressources. If you compare the prize money of the GSL to what is given in the WCS, or simply the prize money for the whole year of SC2, you see a noticeable decline (from 2012 to 2013) | ||
tar
Germany991 Posts
On October 08 2013 02:34 Mortal wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 02:33 tar wrote: On October 08 2013 02:28 Sejanus wrote: It's very hard to take WCS seriously with byes all over the place due to players retiring, not getting visas, choosing different tournaments to attend and so on. You just cant do "pro" gaming forever if you arent at the very top to get a big contract, that happens in every sport. No it does not. Even bad basketball pro players find somewhere to play, and I am pretty sure they earn more than an average progamer. Even my little country Lithuania has two basketball leagues and majority of players here are objectively very bad compared to those "at the very top", i.e. NBA stars. But I don't mean SC2 is necessarily bad by that. It's just not where money is at. Dunno, but I know a handful of ppl who tried to become professional football players and quit in their 20s because they were just not making a living from it or didn't have any real perspective to ever earn decently. comparing SC2 to any professional mainstream sport is a laughable comparison. in nearly every respect. apples and fire hydrants. in that case it actually isn't. Sports as a career only pays out for those who play it at the highest lvl, yet there are a lot more ppl trying to reach that level yet never do. Same goes for sc2. ofc, the bigger the sport, the more ppl can make a living of it (however, also more ppl will try to do so) | ||
Sejanus
Lithuania550 Posts
Dunno, but I know a handful of ppl who tried to become professional football players and quit in their 20s because they were just not making a living from it or didn't have any real perspective to ever earn decently. But of course not literally everyone can be a pro basketball player. Like not everyone can become a programmer, engineer, goon, pilot, driver and so on. All I am saying is you don't need to be a top player to earn good living in any mainstream pro sports. SC2 doesn't even compare like someone already said. Someone playing in the small countries basketball B league sure as hell doesn't make nothing comparable to what Kobe Bryant does... but he probably still earns more than majority of worldwide known SC2 pros. | ||
DifuntO
Greece2376 Posts
There are just too many players.We need region lock next year so we can at least protect the foreign scene until Korea stabilizes. | ||
mikkmagro
Malta1513 Posts
On October 08 2013 01:51 DiMano wrote: WTF WHY EVRYONE RETIRES???????? What is wrog explain me please about 15-20 koreans have retired wtf is this... He is retiring (probably) because: a) He had a good deal at Clarity, because he was easily their best player, and they paid him a salary, as well as let him live in their team house in New York. When he left due to communication issues in order for him to travel to IEM Shanghai, it is probable that he couldn't find any other team ready to invest as much in him as Clarity did. b) With the rumours that this year's challenger league not seeding into next year's, it was perhaps not worth it for him to play anymore, also considering that even if he made it to Premier, he could not afford to travel to Europe on his own dime. Teamless Koreans won't have an easy time in WCS EU/AM, and he pretty much has no chance of making it in WCS KR. c) He had military service, and since his SC2 career was far from booming, and there was hardly any positive outlook for him, being an average Korean pro (being generous) without a team, it was a good time to get the military service out of his way. Everyone retires because there's just no place for so many progamers, particularly in Korea. Nowadays, if you're an older player (20+), and not in Premier or borderline Premier, you're pretty much dead weight, especially those KeSPA players who are paid a salary, and the same goes for younger players who are not in Challenger at least a couple of times a year. It's no longer viable for teams to have 15+ players on their roster. 6-7 is more than enough. | ||
tar
Germany991 Posts
On October 08 2013 02:41 Sejanus wrote: Show nested quote + Dunno, but I know a handful of ppl who tried to become professional football players and quit in their 20s because they were just not making a living from it or didn't have any real perspective to ever earn decently. But of course not literally everyone can be a pro basketball player. Like not everyone can become a programmer, engineer, goon, pilot, driver and so on. All I am saying is you don't need to be a top player to earn good living in any mainstream pro sports. SC2 doesn't even compare like someone already said. I would argue the German Bundesliga is a rather big sports league and yet statistics say 25 percent of all professional players are bankrupt at the end of their career. Excluding the 1st league numbers go up to about edit: Making a living in a pro sport is damn hard even when the sport is as big as football. | ||
MrMercuG
Netherlands2389 Posts
On October 08 2013 02:36 Erik.TheRed wrote: So many damn retirements recently :/ And I know it's a sad situation, but I can't stop humming this song lately. + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY0WxgSXdEE That seems quite depressive | ||
Mortal
2943 Posts
sc2 needs way less players. WAY less. pretty straightforward. | ||
skatblast
United States784 Posts
On October 08 2013 01:22 SkullZ9 wrote: Are there players retiring everyday ? ![]() People retire and new blood replaces them it happens all the time. | ||
Micro_Jackson
Germany2002 Posts
On October 08 2013 02:41 tar wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 02:34 Mortal wrote: On October 08 2013 02:33 tar wrote: On October 08 2013 02:28 Sejanus wrote: It's very hard to take WCS seriously with byes all over the place due to players retiring, not getting visas, choosing different tournaments to attend and so on. You just cant do "pro" gaming forever if you arent at the very top to get a big contract, that happens in every sport. No it does not. Even bad basketball pro players find somewhere to play, and I am pretty sure they earn more than an average progamer. Even my little country Lithuania has two basketball leagues and majority of players here are objectively very bad compared to those "at the very top", i.e. NBA stars. But I don't mean SC2 is necessarily bad by that. It's just not where money is at. Dunno, but I know a handful of ppl who tried to become professional football players and quit in their 20s because they were just not making a living from it or didn't have any real perspective to ever earn decently. comparing SC2 to any professional mainstream sport is a laughable comparison. in nearly every respect. apples and fire hydrants. in that case it actually isn't. Sports as a career only pays out for those who play it at the highest lvl, yet there are a lot more ppl trying to reach that level yet never do. Same goes for sc2. ofc, the bigger the sport, the more ppl can make a living of it (however, also more ppl will try to do so) What you call "bad basketball pro players" are better than 99% of all people taking their sport serious. Yes even Kwame Brown. And if you make it percent wise there are way more sc2 players that make a lifing out of it then in every "regular" sport. | ||
Hermanoid
Sweden213 Posts
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TommyP
United States6231 Posts
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Crytash
Germany251 Posts
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On October 08 2013 02:41 Sejanus wrote: Show nested quote + Dunno, but I know a handful of ppl who tried to become professional football players and quit in their 20s because they were just not making a living from it or didn't have any real perspective to ever earn decently. But of course not literally everyone can be a pro basketball player. Like not everyone can become a programmer, engineer, goon, pilot, driver and so on. All I am saying is you don't need to be a top player to earn good living in any mainstream pro sports. SC2 doesn't even compare like someone already said. Someone playing in the small countries basketball B league sure as hell doesn't make nothing comparable to what Kobe Bryant does... but he probably still earns more than majority of worldwide known SC2 pros. There are probably as many basketball fans in Lithuania as there are SC2 fans in the world. And they are probably more loyal, more willing to spend money on tickets, merchandise, etc. But yes, you don't need to be a top player to make a decent living in mainstream sports. There are maybe 50 000 professional football players in the world. Interestingly, you do need to pretty good in some mainstream individual sports. E.g I'm guessing less than 1000 people make a living from playing tennis (men and women). | ||
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Darkhorse
United States23455 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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purakushi
United States3300 Posts
On October 08 2013 01:51 JustPassingBy wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 01:51 DiMano wrote: WTF WHY EVRYONE RETIRES???????? What is wrog explain me please about 15-20 koreans have retired wtf is this... Mandatory Military Service Also: Lack of interest in SC2. Seeing no future in SC2 (Korea) itself. No results in the highly competitive environment. | ||
Eggi
478 Posts
If not they had a good time and I respect that. I expect a lot more retirements in the next few months due to the end of WCS for the year. Lots of reflecting is being done this time of year. Lots of life choices to make. gl hf shuttle | ||
andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On October 08 2013 02:51 USvBleakill wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 02:41 tar wrote: On October 08 2013 02:34 Mortal wrote: On October 08 2013 02:33 tar wrote: On October 08 2013 02:28 Sejanus wrote: It's very hard to take WCS seriously with byes all over the place due to players retiring, not getting visas, choosing different tournaments to attend and so on. You just cant do "pro" gaming forever if you arent at the very top to get a big contract, that happens in every sport. No it does not. Even bad basketball pro players find somewhere to play, and I am pretty sure they earn more than an average progamer. Even my little country Lithuania has two basketball leagues and majority of players here are objectively very bad compared to those "at the very top", i.e. NBA stars. But I don't mean SC2 is necessarily bad by that. It's just not where money is at. Dunno, but I know a handful of ppl who tried to become professional football players and quit in their 20s because they were just not making a living from it or didn't have any real perspective to ever earn decently. comparing SC2 to any professional mainstream sport is a laughable comparison. in nearly every respect. apples and fire hydrants. in that case it actually isn't. Sports as a career only pays out for those who play it at the highest lvl, yet there are a lot more ppl trying to reach that level yet never do. Same goes for sc2. ofc, the bigger the sport, the more ppl can make a living of it (however, also more ppl will try to do so) What you call "bad basketball pro players" are better than 99% of all people taking their sport serious. Yes even Kwame Brown. And if you make it percent wise there are way more sc2 players that make a lifing out of it then in every "regular" sport. A difference though is that most professional players in mainstream sports only retire after nobody wants them anymore. Even star players only routinely retire after their skills have deteriorated so badly that they become end of the bench players. SC2 on the other hand is still a personality driven game. Most of the recent Korean retirees are still competitive while the foreign scene is still populated by dozens of shitty players with outsized personalities. The best comparison is to Tim Tebow in the NFL, who is probably unknown to non-Americans. Except comparing foreigners' SC2 skills to Tebow's passing skills is a grave insult to Tebow. | ||
Mortal
2943 Posts
On October 08 2013 03:00 Crytash wrote: He is 19, pls stop saying that he is old or has to go to the military. he lives in SK. he's an adult. he is required by law to serve a period in the military. how is this confusing people? | ||
c0ldfusion
United States8293 Posts
After this big wave of retirements the scene should stabilize a bit. | ||
Crytash
Germany251 Posts
On October 08 2013 03:23 Mortal wrote:he lives in SK. he's an adult. he is required by law to serve a period in the military. how is this confusing people? Usually you can defer enlistment as long as you are in school/university, up to 24. So i would say, that unless he is not studying etc. military service should NOT be an issue. | ||
TheBloodyDwarf
Finland7524 Posts
On October 08 2013 03:23 Mortal wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 03:00 Crytash wrote: He is 19, pls stop saying that he is old or has to go to the military. he lives in SK. he's an adult. he is required by law to serve a period in the military. how is this confusing people? Same thing is in Finland. You usually go to army when you are 19-20 but you can entreat suspension(I dont know if this is right word). Like most of professional athletes do this. But you have to go to army before you are 30 years old. I think in Finland your reason can't being pro gamer :D | ||
Dumbledore
Sweden725 Posts
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StreetWise
United States594 Posts
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TaishiCi
Korea (South)211 Posts
On October 08 2013 03:21 andrewlt wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 02:51 USvBleakill wrote: On October 08 2013 02:41 tar wrote: On October 08 2013 02:34 Mortal wrote: On October 08 2013 02:33 tar wrote: On October 08 2013 02:28 Sejanus wrote: It's very hard to take WCS seriously with byes all over the place due to players retiring, not getting visas, choosing different tournaments to attend and so on. You just cant do "pro" gaming forever if you arent at the very top to get a big contract, that happens in every sport. No it does not. Even bad basketball pro players find somewhere to play, and I am pretty sure they earn more than an average progamer. Even my little country Lithuania has two basketball leagues and majority of players here are objectively very bad compared to those "at the very top", i.e. NBA stars. But I don't mean SC2 is necessarily bad by that. It's just not where money is at. Dunno, but I know a handful of ppl who tried to become professional football players and quit in their 20s because they were just not making a living from it or didn't have any real perspective to ever earn decently. comparing SC2 to any professional mainstream sport is a laughable comparison. in nearly every respect. apples and fire hydrants. in that case it actually isn't. Sports as a career only pays out for those who play it at the highest lvl, yet there are a lot more ppl trying to reach that level yet never do. Same goes for sc2. ofc, the bigger the sport, the more ppl can make a living of it (however, also more ppl will try to do so) What you call "bad basketball pro players" are better than 99% of all people taking their sport serious. Yes even Kwame Brown. And if you make it percent wise there are way more sc2 players that make a lifing out of it then in every "regular" sport. A difference though is that most professional players in mainstream sports only retire after nobody wants them anymore. Even star players only routinely retire after their skills have deteriorated so badly that they become end of the bench players. SC2 on the other hand is still a personality driven game. Most of the recent Korean retirees are still competitive while the foreign scene is still populated by dozens of shitty players with outsized personalities. The best comparison is to Tim Tebow in the NFL, who is probably unknown to non-Americans. Except comparing foreigners' SC2 skills to Tebow's passing skills is a grave insult to Tebow. So true. Not even funny. Funny how professional sports only care about production and ability (Tim is out of a job). eSports only cares about relate-ability. People like Sherman because is good, not because he can talk trash. | ||
Mortal
2943 Posts
On October 08 2013 03:35 TaishiCi wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 03:21 andrewlt wrote: On October 08 2013 02:51 USvBleakill wrote: On October 08 2013 02:41 tar wrote: On October 08 2013 02:34 Mortal wrote: On October 08 2013 02:33 tar wrote: On October 08 2013 02:28 Sejanus wrote: It's very hard to take WCS seriously with byes all over the place due to players retiring, not getting visas, choosing different tournaments to attend and so on. You just cant do "pro" gaming forever if you arent at the very top to get a big contract, that happens in every sport. No it does not. Even bad basketball pro players find somewhere to play, and I am pretty sure they earn more than an average progamer. Even my little country Lithuania has two basketball leagues and majority of players here are objectively very bad compared to those "at the very top", i.e. NBA stars. But I don't mean SC2 is necessarily bad by that. It's just not where money is at. Dunno, but I know a handful of ppl who tried to become professional football players and quit in their 20s because they were just not making a living from it or didn't have any real perspective to ever earn decently. comparing SC2 to any professional mainstream sport is a laughable comparison. in nearly every respect. apples and fire hydrants. in that case it actually isn't. Sports as a career only pays out for those who play it at the highest lvl, yet there are a lot more ppl trying to reach that level yet never do. Same goes for sc2. ofc, the bigger the sport, the more ppl can make a living of it (however, also more ppl will try to do so) What you call "bad basketball pro players" are better than 99% of all people taking their sport serious. Yes even Kwame Brown. And if you make it percent wise there are way more sc2 players that make a lifing out of it then in every "regular" sport. A difference though is that most professional players in mainstream sports only retire after nobody wants them anymore. Even star players only routinely retire after their skills have deteriorated so badly that they become end of the bench players. SC2 on the other hand is still a personality driven game. Most of the recent Korean retirees are still competitive while the foreign scene is still populated by dozens of shitty players with outsized personalities. The best comparison is to Tim Tebow in the NFL, who is probably unknown to non-Americans. Except comparing foreigners' SC2 skills to Tebow's passing skills is a grave insult to Tebow. So true. Not even funny. Funny how professional sports only care about production and ability (Tim is out of a job). eSports only cares about relate-ability. People like Sherman because is good, not because he can talk trash. because I relate so much to innovation. lol | ||
Requiem-
Uruguay162 Posts
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testthewest
Germany274 Posts
On October 08 2013 03:21 andrewlt wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 02:51 USvBleakill wrote: On October 08 2013 02:41 tar wrote: On October 08 2013 02:34 Mortal wrote: On October 08 2013 02:33 tar wrote: On October 08 2013 02:28 Sejanus wrote: It's very hard to take WCS seriously with byes all over the place due to players retiring, not getting visas, choosing different tournaments to attend and so on. You just cant do "pro" gaming forever if you arent at the very top to get a big contract, that happens in every sport. No it does not. Even bad basketball pro players find somewhere to play, and I am pretty sure they earn more than an average progamer. Even my little country Lithuania has two basketball leagues and majority of players here are objectively very bad compared to those "at the very top", i.e. NBA stars. But I don't mean SC2 is necessarily bad by that. It's just not where money is at. Dunno, but I know a handful of ppl who tried to become professional football players and quit in their 20s because they were just not making a living from it or didn't have any real perspective to ever earn decently. comparing SC2 to any professional mainstream sport is a laughable comparison. in nearly every respect. apples and fire hydrants. in that case it actually isn't. Sports as a career only pays out for those who play it at the highest lvl, yet there are a lot more ppl trying to reach that level yet never do. Same goes for sc2. ofc, the bigger the sport, the more ppl can make a living of it (however, also more ppl will try to do so) What you call "bad basketball pro players" are better than 99% of all people taking their sport serious. Yes even Kwame Brown. And if you make it percent wise there are way more sc2 players that make a lifing out of it then in every "regular" sport. A difference though is that most professional players in mainstream sports only retire after nobody wants them anymore. Even star players only routinely retire after their skills have deteriorated so badly that they become end of the bench players. SC2 on the other hand is still a personality driven game. Most of the recent Korean retirees are still competitive while the foreign scene is still populated by dozens of shitty players with outsized personalities. The best comparison is to Tim Tebow in the NFL, who is probably unknown to non-Americans. Except comparing foreigners' SC2 skills to Tebow's passing skills is a grave insult to Tebow. Just stop about this unholy comparison. Mainstream sports pay so much more for their atlethes in wages you can't even compare it to SC2. Look at the prizes. So if they win their group, they get 200$?? Are you supposed to live of that? If you are not the top 10 SC2 pros, you can't really live of it well. Even if you are top10, you won't make that much, so that you can retire after gaming, but instead must look for a job. And this is hard, if you did nothing but playing SC2. So stop the comparisions to sports in which even mediocre players in the top leagues earn 40000 $ A WEEK no matter if they win or not! | ||
NeThZOR
South Africa7387 Posts
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NeThZOR
South Africa7387 Posts
On October 08 2013 03:44 testthewest wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 03:21 andrewlt wrote: On October 08 2013 02:51 USvBleakill wrote: On October 08 2013 02:41 tar wrote: On October 08 2013 02:34 Mortal wrote: On October 08 2013 02:33 tar wrote: On October 08 2013 02:28 Sejanus wrote: It's very hard to take WCS seriously with byes all over the place due to players retiring, not getting visas, choosing different tournaments to attend and so on. You just cant do "pro" gaming forever if you arent at the very top to get a big contract, that happens in every sport. No it does not. Even bad basketball pro players find somewhere to play, and I am pretty sure they earn more than an average progamer. Even my little country Lithuania has two basketball leagues and majority of players here are objectively very bad compared to those "at the very top", i.e. NBA stars. But I don't mean SC2 is necessarily bad by that. It's just not where money is at. Dunno, but I know a handful of ppl who tried to become professional football players and quit in their 20s because they were just not making a living from it or didn't have any real perspective to ever earn decently. comparing SC2 to any professional mainstream sport is a laughable comparison. in nearly every respect. apples and fire hydrants. in that case it actually isn't. Sports as a career only pays out for those who play it at the highest lvl, yet there are a lot more ppl trying to reach that level yet never do. Same goes for sc2. ofc, the bigger the sport, the more ppl can make a living of it (however, also more ppl will try to do so) What you call "bad basketball pro players" are better than 99% of all people taking their sport serious. Yes even Kwame Brown. And if you make it percent wise there are way more sc2 players that make a lifing out of it then in every "regular" sport. A difference though is that most professional players in mainstream sports only retire after nobody wants them anymore. Even star players only routinely retire after their skills have deteriorated so badly that they become end of the bench players. SC2 on the other hand is still a personality driven game. Most of the recent Korean retirees are still competitive while the foreign scene is still populated by dozens of shitty players with outsized personalities. The best comparison is to Tim Tebow in the NFL, who is probably unknown to non-Americans. Except comparing foreigners' SC2 skills to Tebow's passing skills is a grave insult to Tebow. Just stop about this unholy comparison. Mainstream sports pay so much more for their atlethes in wages you can't even compare it to SC2. Look at the prizes. So if they win their group, they get 200$?? Are you supposed to live of that? If you are not the top 10 SC2 pros, you can't really live of it well. Even if you are top10, you won't make that much, so that you can retire after gaming, but instead must look for a job. And this is hard, if you did nothing but playing SC2. So stop the comparisions to sports in which even mediocre players in the top leagues earn 40000 $ A WEEK no matter if they win or not! You have some misconceptions here. Is HuK in the top 10 players of the world right now? Extend that to players such as Naniwa, Nerchio etc.? They are all very good foreign players, but on the whole, Koreans fill that top 10 spot. Many talented players are backed up by sponsors and get salaries, housing and training which still makes pro gaming feasible for them. | ||
Missing-No
Canada50 Posts
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
just kidding, guys. keep in mind that those retires are a mixture of the shrinking scene (which is due to less popularity pretty normal, sadly) and also a change of generations. not everyone can be a nestea or a grubby ![]() good luck, and a life full of fun and success to your, shuttle. thanks for the entertainment you brought to the game. | ||
Undead1993
Germany17651 Posts
hmm.. ye he didn't do too well in 2013, not surprising that he retires i think. | ||
dirtydurb82
United States178 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Sorry, had too. | ||
danl9rm
United States3111 Posts
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igay
Australia1178 Posts
On October 08 2013 01:51 JustPassingBy wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 01:51 DiMano wrote: WTF WHY EVRYONE RETIRES???????? What is wrog explain me please about 15-20 koreans have retired wtf is this... Mandatory Military Service not exactly the whole reasons | ||
AsaZZang
Germany30 Posts
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Goldfish
2230 Posts
On October 08 2013 01:52 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 01:51 DiMano wrote: WTF WHY EVRYONE RETIRES???????? What is wrog explain me please about 15-20 koreans have retired wtf is this... Too much progamers. When kespa came to sc2, player pool got double That and with the WCS system. there are now half of the tournaments (in South Korea anyway). | ||
TurboMaN
Germany925 Posts
Sad days for SC2 | ||
e4e5nf3
Canada599 Posts
On October 08 2013 05:00 TurboMaN wrote: Another one bites the dust... Sad days for SC2 It's been a tough year for SC2. I almost dread what 2014 will bring. Meanwhile Coke Zero has recently decided to sponsor LoL and all the fans and players are rejoicing at how this is a momentous step for esports as a whole. Talk about opposite sides of the spectrum. | ||
rrwrwx
United States247 Posts
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On October 08 2013 04:51 igay wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 01:51 JustPassingBy wrote: On October 08 2013 01:51 DiMano wrote: WTF WHY EVRYONE RETIRES???????? What is wrog explain me please about 15-20 koreans have retired wtf is this... Mandatory Military Service not exactly the whole reasons Ah, sry. My post was written in a time, where the op claimed that the mandatory military service was the reason. | ||
ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
On October 08 2013 01:38 Mortal wrote: about time some of the dead wood was burned out. the scene has ben saturated for quite a while. Usually when my mineral field is oversaturated, I usually bring over a siege tank to take out some of my workers. | ||
AngrySalmon
United Kingdom19 Posts
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GrimZeRo
United States113 Posts
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FLuE
United States1012 Posts
On October 08 2013 05:15 ninazerg wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 01:38 Mortal wrote: about time some of the dead wood was burned out. the scene has ben saturated for quite a while. Usually when my mineral field is oversaturated, I usually bring over a siege tank to take out some of my workers. So true. I'll be worried when high level players that are winning events start to retire in big quantities. Even the players that are a "big deal" because they are moving on are mostly players that haven't posted results in forever or are former big time BW players that didn't cut it in SC2 to the level that they wanted. The scene would be much better if there were about half as many pro players. More money to go around, less fighting over the available prize pool. More chance to develop fans/following/storyline because those players will get more exposure. | ||
SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
On October 08 2013 02:47 tar wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 02:41 Sejanus wrote: Dunno, but I know a handful of ppl who tried to become professional football players and quit in their 20s because they were just not making a living from it or didn't have any real perspective to ever earn decently. But of course not literally everyone can be a pro basketball player. Like not everyone can become a programmer, engineer, goon, pilot, driver and so on. All I am saying is you don't need to be a top player to earn good living in any mainstream pro sports. SC2 doesn't even compare like someone already said. I would argue the German Bundesliga is a rather big sports league and yet statistics say 25 percent of all professional players are bankrupt at the end of their career. Excluding the 1st league numbers go up to about edit: Making a living in a pro sport is damn hard even when the sport is as big as football. The reasons professional athletes so often go bankrupt are not the same. In football it is most likely not because of a lack of funds, but because the players themselves are highly inept at managing finances, saving money and planning for the future. Lots of professional athletes grow up knowing nothing but the specialized set of skills they need for their sport. They don't know what a savings account is, they don't know how to open bank accounts, they don't know how to write checks, etc. Spending big bucks is part of the professional sports culture and on top of that athletes incur injuries without solid health care plans. They also regularly get exploited by those around them because of the money and their lack of knowledge. It's not like SC2 where the players are fairly intelligent but there just isn't money. | ||
Locke-
499 Posts
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RuskiPanda
United States2906 Posts
On October 08 2013 05:44 Locke- wrote: When will it stop?! When there's a sustainable prize pool/player ratio no doubt. | ||
Caladan
Germany1238 Posts
I think everyone is agreeing in the fact that if you enjoy a game you play it. That's the point of playing. Payment or not. Why do you think thousands are starting Broodwar again. I can tell you, not for the money. I won't say more, because it's forbidden on TL.net nowadays to say that the game is not good (in IT terms that's called "security through obscurity"). So I won't say it. Just read that above and think logical please. | ||
Imagine42
United States73 Posts
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Cereb
Denmark3388 Posts
On October 08 2013 02:35 bouboule wrote: thanks to hots for killing sc2 How is this not a bannable offense by now? Using these one person retiring posts to spell doom and gloom based on your own crazed theories that have nothing to do with the actual matter at hand of a player retiring?! Anyway, best of luck to Shuttle in the future! There are just so ridiculously many excellent pro players competing at the top level right now that it's nearly impossible to succeed consistently. Edit: Holy moly - just the posts on this page alone. I desperately need to leave this thread immidiately. I can't take this level of ridiculousness. Some folks are just too far off the mark. | ||
Goldfish
2230 Posts
On October 08 2013 05:22 GrimZeRo wrote: Sad to see ![]() ![]() Yeah, I think WarCraft 4 has lots of potential and lots of ways to revitalize the traditional RTS genre (well as close as it can be to still be considered a "traditional RTS"). (I consider anything a "traditional RTS" if it involves building structures, controlling units, gathering resources, and managing them all manually.) Even if SC2 was BW and just as good as BW (and BW is still doing well in South Korea, better than SC2 actually in terms of players in PC Bangs) then I'd doubt it still be able to compete with the likes of LoL or Dota. My things on thoughts on BW compared to SC2. + Show Spoiler + BW is actually easier to play and easier to get into and easier for casual compared to SC2. Why? Because in BW, a lot of things (microing Mutalisk, Vultures, and Reavers are good examples) have much more depth. It's easy for anyone to do but microing those units is more than "how fast you do it" (Mutalisk for example, you have to know when to use attack move, attack directly, patrol, hold position "in addition" you also have to pay attention to the direction the Mutalisk are facing "before" using any of those commands because some, like attack move, require Mutalisk to be facing the target before you attack or else you'll lose speed). For example, with Mutalisk, even people who are slow at least can practice and still get better at using them. If you don't have 400 APM, that's okay, you can still learn and practice and get better at using Mutalisk anyway because the micro has depth - it's more than simply "speed", and that applies to a lot of things in BW compared to SC2. This kind of depth, adds more ways for players to get better and practice. When you want to start learning how to use Mutalisk, you can practice using them in so many ways to get better at using them. In SC2, most of the micro and stuff is simply "how fast you can do it" and that's basically it. So, if you want to be better at microing, all it amounts to is "try to be faster at doing it" and that's it. Of course, positioning is also a big thing too but besides speed and knowing (for example) where to move your marines when you want to split them against banelings, that's basically all there is to microing in SC2. It's difficult, that's for sure. However, while it is difficult, if it doesn't have depth and if the only way to practice getting better at it is just simply "speed", then it's not as fun or satisfying as BW's micro and it makes the game as whole not as rewarding to play. SC2 is a hard game and probably just as hard as BW in a way. But, it really lacks depth. I do hope LotV makes SC2 better. It's not about copying the exact mechanics in BW but it's about adding more ways to do one task. But despite that, even if SC2 had all of those, I think traditional RTS may not be able to really compete with other games (in terms of popularity). It may have a niche following but you may wonder, what can be changed to keep the things we like and make it go above and beyond what we've been playing? And I think WarCraft 4 has the potential. + Show Spoiler + The main reason is, what BW and SC2 lacks compared to those games are a few things: 1. Variety and excitement with each new update or patch. With LoL and Dota, new heroes come out regularly, new items come out, and new cosmetics all come out regularly. With BW and SC2, they have none of those. If you can pick between two games you like equally but one has these things you can get (cosmetics for your heroes) while the other doesn't, then you'll likely play the former. WarCraft 4 can deal with this too since (if they are going with WC3 design) then they'll too have Heroes and all they did to do is throw in cosmetics. And WarCraft 3 at a few points did add new heroes (Goblin Tinker, then Goblin Alchemist, and Firelord for example). Something like this in SC2 (outside of expansions) is probably not likely. 2. Dota and LoL are built around keep the game fresh and changing. Kind of like Magic: The Gathering and other games. StarCraft is sort of meant to be a static game. You won't have major rule changes or crazy changes happening. Dota and LoL are free to do that (and with Dota at least, not sure about LoL, they have done it several times already where they do a big change). This keeps peoples interest in the game. You can say, StarCraft has meta changes or how players style and trends changes. Well, Dota and LoL has that too "in addition" to the developers helping kick start things with those types of changes. WarCraft 4, it doesn't have to the same thing as WC3 exactly, they can try more drastic changes. 3. Balancing - In Dota and LoL, due to the game works (even in competitive settings), no one has a "main hero" or "main race" or anything, no need for balance worries to limit the game.Dota and LoL don't have to worry about "Oh no, they nerfed <insert hero here> that means this team or these players can't make a living anymore because their hero or race is underpowered." because the game encourages you to use as many different heroes as possible. Plus, it makes the game refreshing. In SC, developers can't afford to try out big changes because it'll hurt the competitive gaming scene. And another problem of "sticking to 1 race" is that it makes the game kind of boring in a way if this player plays almost exactly the same as another just because they use the exact same race. WarCraft 4, they have a fresh start. WarCraft 4 doesn't have to use the traditional race system. Maybe, they could do it like card game or draft system where they pick from a pool of units, heroes, structures, etc, and mix them. Yeah, that's drastically different but they could try that with WC4 and if it turns out it does work, then great because it can revitalize the traditional RTS genre. And maybe (like card games or Dota or whatever) they regularly release new units, heroes, and stuff into the game. Also, even if races are gone, players could still build their race to be themed around another race. Maybe a player picks only orc units or something. Also how would mixing races together work? Well, I was thinking there would be limitations. Like how Magic: The Gathering has colors, you don't want to always have all of 5 colors because that means you can get mana screwed more often (need 5 different types of mana). WC4 could have mix and matching or races but still have requirements like "you need farms to build human units" or "you need orc burrows to build orc units", etc and picking farms would take up a "unit slot" that you could have used for a different unit or structure (for example). Anyway, these are just some small ideas on how WC4 could revitalize the RTS genre and the problem of why traditional RTS aren't just as appealing anymore. I'd really like a competitive 1v1 game (I dislike team games) and I definitely am interested in WC4 if/when Blizzard makes it. The major advantage StarCraft and WarCraft have over LoL and Dota is that they don't have to be team games, and I prefer 1v1 over team games. I like how if you're doing well, you know it's because of you . Or if you are losing, you can't just go and blame team mates. Also if WC4 does go the route of removing races and maybe trying a Magic: The Gathering thing where you can mix and match (to an extent, with certain restrictions like needing the right structures to tech up on certain races), then there will also be less balance complaints too which is nice. I do like how in Dota and LoL and MTG, the games are built around using all the different things in the game to win. I spoilered it because it's kind of really off topic in general. Edit - Well to defend the all the "oh noes, SC2 is dying" posts, at least it encourages discussion >.>. (Of course, I'm not helping the problem either by going into an off topic discussion on how WarCraft 4 can revitalize the genre >.>.) Also my previous post, I was on topic (said it does have to do with KeSPA players, more players in general, and how there are much less tournaments in South Korea), so yeah that's my excuse >.>. Though it does bring up a good point. In a way, for a lot of players I do care about but they just aren't doing well enough in SC2. I do want them to retire and do something else. Even if SC2 was super popular, there's always going to be players that are almost there but just aren't able to make a living off of the game. The same can be said for the professional scene in LoL and Dota 2 too. | ||
oDieN[Siege]
United States2904 Posts
Broodwar? Yes. | ||
SkullZ9
Belgium2048 Posts
On October 08 2013 06:09 Caladan wrote: "too much progamers" yaddayadda... I think everyone is agreeing in the fact that if you enjoy a game you play it. That's the point of playing. Payment or not. Why do you think thousands are starting Broodwar again. I can tell you, not for the money. I won't say more, because it's forbidden on TL.net nowadays to say that the game is not good (in IT terms that's called "security through obscurity"). So I won't say it. Just read that above and think logical please. Ok so first of all, enjoyment has nothing to do with Shuttle's decision to retire, the reason is he has to do his military service. And you can't be a real progamer, who lives with his passion if you gain zero money from it, that's logical. There are people that plays only because they enjoy the game and they don't have any money from it in BW and in SC2, but you can't call these "progamers". Progamers : professional gamers. Profession : you live from that ![]() | ||
Kergy
Peru2011 Posts
On October 08 2013 05:04 e4e5nf3 wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 05:00 TurboMaN wrote: Another one bites the dust... Sad days for SC2 It's been a tough year for SC2. I almost dread what 2014 will bring. Meanwhile Coke Zero has recently decided to sponsor LoL and all the fans and players are rejoicing at how this is a momentous step for esports as a whole. Talk about opposite sides of the spectrum. b...but riot doesnt have a sustainable model and their scene only relies on their money! | ||
Caladan
Germany1238 Posts
On October 08 2013 06:18 SkullZ9 wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 06:09 Caladan wrote: "too much progamers" yaddayadda... I think everyone is agreeing in the fact that if you enjoy a game you play it. That's the point of playing. Payment or not. Why do you think thousands are starting Broodwar again. I can tell you, not for the money. I won't say more, because it's forbidden on TL.net nowadays to say that the game is not good (in IT terms that's called "security through obscurity"). So I won't say it. Just read that above and think logical please. Ok so first of all, enjoyment has nothing to do with Shuttle's decision to retire, the reason is he has to do his military service. And you can't be a real progamer, who lives with his passion if you gain zero money from it, that's logical. There are people that plays only because they enjoy the game and they don't have any money from it in BW and in SC2, but you can't call these "progamers". Progamers : professional gamers. Profession : you live from that ![]() I think he wrote "I retire SC2". He did not write "I retire as a progamer but will continue playing". Please read the OP properly before spreading false information... :/ Besides, having to go *next year* to military is not really a reason to stop playing the game SC2 now, hm? I'm studying but yet I play plenty of games throughout the day. ![]() | ||
Specialist
United States803 Posts
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Lorch
Germany3669 Posts
On October 08 2013 05:04 e4e5nf3 wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 05:00 TurboMaN wrote: Another one bites the dust... Sad days for SC2 It's been a tough year for SC2. I almost dread what 2014 will bring. Meanwhile Coke Zero has recently decided to sponsor LoL and all the fans and players are rejoicing at how this is a momentous step for esports as a whole. Talk about opposite sides of the spectrum. Coca-cola sponsored gsl in 2011 and an osl in like 2001. RIOT propaganda may be strong, but coke doing something in esports is not new and not a mile stone and not a momentous step for esports. On top of that the energy drink that sponsors IM is owned by cola. Riot may sell it's game as THE esport and everything connected to it as MONUMENTAL STEPS for esports, but that is barely ever true. There is very little that actually hasn't done shit in esports, heck back in 06 mlg was sponsored by scion and boost mobile. OT: Oh noes somebody who never got any results after years of playing decides to retire :O And what you say he has to do a mandatory military service? I guess thats really bad for our scene and all. | ||
jax1492
United States1632 Posts
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
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Kergy
Peru2011 Posts
On October 08 2013 06:43 Lorch wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 05:04 e4e5nf3 wrote: On October 08 2013 05:00 TurboMaN wrote: Another one bites the dust... Sad days for SC2 It's been a tough year for SC2. I almost dread what 2014 will bring. Meanwhile Coke Zero has recently decided to sponsor LoL and all the fans and players are rejoicing at how this is a momentous step for esports as a whole. Talk about opposite sides of the spectrum. Coca-cola sponsored gsl in 2011 and an osl in like 2001. RIOT propaganda may be strong, but coke doing something in esports is not new and not a mile stone and not a momentous step for esports. On top of that the energy drink that sponsors IM is owned by cola. Riot may sell it's game as THE esport and everything connected to it as MONUMENTAL STEPS for esports, but that is barely ever true. There is very little that actually hasn't done shit in esports, heck back in 06 mlg was sponsored by scion and boost mobile. OT: Oh noes somebody who never got any results after years of playing decides to retire :O And what you say he has to do a mandatory military service? I guess thats really bad for our scene and all. Wasn't it Pepsi that sponsored GSL, anyways what has happened since then? GSL is being sponsored by a small online store and there's no pro BW anymore. If anything, Riot is picking up where the other big games stopped. American Express and Coca Cola (Nissan too iirc) are putting money for a video game in a place that's not Korea, if you don't consider that a huge step for #esports I don't know what else any company could do to convince you. | ||
Lumi
United States1612 Posts
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mikkmagro
Malta1513 Posts
On October 08 2013 06:43 Lorch wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 05:04 e4e5nf3 wrote: On October 08 2013 05:00 TurboMaN wrote: Another one bites the dust... Sad days for SC2 It's been a tough year for SC2. I almost dread what 2014 will bring. Meanwhile Coke Zero has recently decided to sponsor LoL and all the fans and players are rejoicing at how this is a momentous step for esports as a whole. Talk about opposite sides of the spectrum. Coca-cola sponsored gsl in 2011 and an osl in like 2001. RIOT propaganda may be strong, but coke doing something in esports is not new and not a mile stone and not a momentous step for esports. On top of that the energy drink that sponsors IM is owned by cola. Riot may sell it's game as THE esport and everything connected to it as MONUMENTAL STEPS for esports, but that is barely ever true. There is very little that actually hasn't done shit in esports, heck back in 06 mlg was sponsored by scion and boost mobile. OT: Oh noes somebody who never got any results after years of playing decides to retire :O And what you say he has to do a mandatory military service? I guess thats really bad for our scene and all. Coke used to sponsor Snute when he was on GL :D | ||
canikizu
4860 Posts
On October 08 2013 06:43 Lorch wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 05:04 e4e5nf3 wrote: On October 08 2013 05:00 TurboMaN wrote: Another one bites the dust... Sad days for SC2 It's been a tough year for SC2. I almost dread what 2014 will bring. Meanwhile Coke Zero has recently decided to sponsor LoL and all the fans and players are rejoicing at how this is a momentous step for esports as a whole. Talk about opposite sides of the spectrum. Coca-cola sponsored gsl in 2011 and an osl in like 2001. RIOT propaganda may be strong, but coke doing something in esports is not new and not a mile stone and not a momentous step for esports. On top of that the energy drink that sponsors IM is owned by cola. Riot may sell it's game as THE esport and everything connected to it as MONUMENTAL STEPS for esports, but that is barely ever true. There is very little that actually hasn't done shit in esports, heck back in 06 mlg was sponsored by scion and boost mobile. OT: Oh noes somebody who never got any results after years of playing decides to retire :O And what you say he has to do a mandatory military service? I guess thats really bad for our scene and all. There're differences though. In those cases, Coke sponsored existing tournaments/leagues, without them the tournaments are still there. In the LoL case, the league series is formed and organized by CokeZero. If they were out, the whole thing would go out. | ||
Glenn313
United States475 Posts
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yokohama
United States1116 Posts
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DumJumJmyWum
United States75 Posts
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SlayerS_BunkiE
Canada1706 Posts
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krooked
376 Posts
Players are retiring because they don't see a future in the game. I won't even go into if they enjoy it or not - They simply do not believe it to be lucrative to keep playing. Because they know that the scene is on a steep decline. If you can't see this by now I wonder if its just pure denial or stupidity. Nobody is saying that the pro scene will die completely, but sc2 will fall until it is a somewhat niche game for a couple of years before it dies off at last. But don't you guys worry about that, just enjoy the game. Because after all, you are enjoying the game, right? | ||
WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On October 08 2013 09:54 krooked wrote: It truly is ridiculous that in every thread so many people talk about "healthy downsizing" and "military service". Players are retiring because they don't see a future in the game. I won't even go into if they enjoy it or not - They simply do not believe it to be lucrative to keep playing. Because they know that the scene is on a steep decline. If you can't see this by now I wonder if its just pure denial or stupidity. Nobody is saying that the pro scene will die completely, but sc2 will fall until it is a somewhat niche game for a couple of years before it dies off at last. But don't you guys worry about that, just enjoy the game. Because after all, you are enjoying the game, right? What's truly ridiculous is people like you who actually believe the state of the scene has any impact on a player like Shuttle's earnings. Name an Esport that will support a player without a team, without any tournament results and without good stream numbers. Go ahead. We can wait. | ||
Laryleprakon
New Zealand9496 Posts
Getting closer to the end of the year and no info about next years WCS season yet, I guess we will see a bit more of this for a few months. | ||
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Darkhorse
United States23455 Posts
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CarlMikael
Sweden1043 Posts
Sad to see him go ![]() | ||
fuzzylogic44
Canada2633 Posts
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tshi
United States2495 Posts
On October 08 2013 11:18 fuzzylogic44 wrote: There are about 100 more korean pros than can be sustained. Retirements help this. Good luck to Shuttle. I dont know about that; is eSports dying?????? jk idc lol | ||
ViceroPrime
Kyrgyzstan2 Posts
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Daswollvieh
5553 Posts
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Advantageous
China1350 Posts
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ArTiFaKs
United States1229 Posts
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documents
Armenia3 Posts
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Aeromi
France14456 Posts
Source : http://www.millenium.org/starcraft-2/accueil/esport/fin-de-route-pour-shuttle-le-terran-coreen-shuttle-ex-clarity-gaming-annonce-son-depart-de-starcraft-2-96274 | ||
tar
Germany991 Posts
On October 08 2013 06:41 Caladan wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 06:18 SkullZ9 wrote: On October 08 2013 06:09 Caladan wrote: "too much progamers" yaddayadda... I think everyone is agreeing in the fact that if you enjoy a game you play it. That's the point of playing. Payment or not. Why do you think thousands are starting Broodwar again. I can tell you, not for the money. I won't say more, because it's forbidden on TL.net nowadays to say that the game is not good (in IT terms that's called "security through obscurity"). So I won't say it. Just read that above and think logical please. Ok so first of all, enjoyment has nothing to do with Shuttle's decision to retire, the reason is he has to do his military service. And you can't be a real progamer, who lives with his passion if you gain zero money from it, that's logical. There are people that plays only because they enjoy the game and they don't have any money from it in BW and in SC2, but you can't call these "progamers". Progamers : professional gamers. Profession : you live from that ![]() I think he wrote "I retire SC2". He did not write "I retire as a progamer but will continue playing". Please read the OP properly before spreading false information... :/ Besides, having to go *next year* to military is not really a reason to stop playing the game SC2 now, hm? I'm studying but yet I play plenty of games throughout the day. ![]() you don't retire from a hobby. Nobody's spreading false information, you are rather interpreting something in your own ways, that doesn't make it any more true though... | ||
Lorch
Germany3669 Posts
On October 08 2013 19:15 Aeromi wrote: Shuttle retires because he knows that in 2014 we will have a region lock. Source : http://www.millenium.org/starcraft-2/accueil/esport/fin-de-route-pour-shuttle-le-terran-coreen-shuttle-ex-clarity-gaming-annonce-son-depart-de-starcraft-2-96274 Yay lets post articles in foreign languages with no translation and use them as proof. | ||
ScoutWBF
Germany595 Posts
Also complaining in a foreign language about another guy posting in a foreign language. He translated the important part, that's good enough imo. :3 | ||
Rickyvalle21
United States320 Posts
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iloveav
Poland1478 Posts
SC2 is in a steady slight decline in terms of popularity and Interest. Its unavoidable that the players who dont see a strong future or at least have a huge passion for the game would want to stay just becouse they "can". Obviously if its due to something like mandatory military service, its a different story, but still. | ||
Incubus1993
Canada140 Posts
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krooked
376 Posts
On October 08 2013 10:31 WolfintheSheep wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 09:54 krooked wrote: It truly is ridiculous that in every thread so many people talk about "healthy downsizing" and "military service". Players are retiring because they don't see a future in the game. I won't even go into if they enjoy it or not - They simply do not believe it to be lucrative to keep playing. Because they know that the scene is on a steep decline. If you can't see this by now I wonder if its just pure denial or stupidity. Nobody is saying that the pro scene will die completely, but sc2 will fall until it is a somewhat niche game for a couple of years before it dies off at last. But don't you guys worry about that, just enjoy the game. Because after all, you are enjoying the game, right? What's truly ridiculous is people like you who actually believe the state of the scene has any impact on a player like Shuttle's earnings. Name an Esport that will support a player without a team, without any tournament results and without good stream numbers. Go ahead. We can wait. Where did I mention Shuttle? Yes, I am aware that this thread is about Shuttle but as I'm sure you've noticed all these retirement-threads tend to have a theme these days. Its "Great stuff, scene is gonna be better, too many players atm" vs "SC2 ded gem". Both sides are too extreme, there is truth in both but whats crazy is that the "ded gem" ppl are mostly trolling while those who cite downsizing is actually dead serious. | ||
Aeromi
France14456 Posts
On October 08 2013 21:00 Lorch wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 19:15 Aeromi wrote: Shuttle retires because he knows that in 2014 we will have a region lock. Source : http://www.millenium.org/starcraft-2/accueil/esport/fin-de-route-pour-shuttle-le-terran-coreen-shuttle-ex-clarity-gaming-annonce-son-depart-de-starcraft-2-96274 Yay lets post articles in foreign languages with no translation and use them as proof. I translated the main part of the article, I don't think you want to know that Shuttle is 19 ans he has not win anything. ![]() | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 09 2013 01:24 krooked wrote: Show nested quote + On October 08 2013 10:31 WolfintheSheep wrote: On October 08 2013 09:54 krooked wrote: It truly is ridiculous that in every thread so many people talk about "healthy downsizing" and "military service". Players are retiring because they don't see a future in the game. I won't even go into if they enjoy it or not - They simply do not believe it to be lucrative to keep playing. Because they know that the scene is on a steep decline. If you can't see this by now I wonder if its just pure denial or stupidity. Nobody is saying that the pro scene will die completely, but sc2 will fall until it is a somewhat niche game for a couple of years before it dies off at last. But don't you guys worry about that, just enjoy the game. Because after all, you are enjoying the game, right? What's truly ridiculous is people like you who actually believe the state of the scene has any impact on a player like Shuttle's earnings. Name an Esport that will support a player without a team, without any tournament results and without good stream numbers. Go ahead. We can wait. Where did I mention Shuttle? Yes, I am aware that this thread is about Shuttle but as I'm sure you've noticed all these retirement-threads tend to have a theme these days. Its "Great stuff, scene is gonna be better, too many players atm" vs "SC2 ded gem". Both sides are too extreme, there is truth in both but whats crazy is that the "ded gem" ppl are mostly trolling while those who cite downsizing is actually dead serious. The trolls are pretty serious too. And the downsizing is natural, since many, but not all, of the players retiring haven't won anything or accomplished much. Right now any team less player can claim he is retiring, even if his professional career never has nothing of note. But people take these claims as some sort of evidence of the game dying. | ||
Die4Ever
United States17596 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On October 09 2013 02:05 Die4Ever wrote: WCS KR 2014 will be very interesting with a full reset on Code S/A and many returning koreans lol. In fact i am sure that Soulkey and probably lot more favorites won't qualify at all in those qualifiers. Yes, Korean scene is THAT stacked. | ||
geokilla
Canada8220 Posts
On October 09 2013 02:08 lolfail9001 wrote: Show nested quote + On October 09 2013 02:05 Die4Ever wrote: WCS KR 2014 will be very interesting with a full reset on Code S/A and many returning koreans lol. In fact i am sure that Soulkey and probably lot more favorites won't qualify at all in those qualifiers. Yes, Korean scene is THAT stacked. Korea was always stacked. GSL and OSL will be prestigious once again. WCS NA and EU on the other hand... *yawn* Can anyone in NA beat Polt? I'd say Suppy and DeMuslim and Scarlett has a chance, off the top of my head. But otherwise, Polt would probably be the favourite? | ||
The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On October 09 2013 02:08 lolfail9001 wrote: Show nested quote + On October 09 2013 02:05 Die4Ever wrote: WCS KR 2014 will be very interesting with a full reset on Code S/A and many returning koreans lol. In fact i am sure that Soulkey and probably lot more favorites won't qualify at all in those qualifiers. Yes, Korean scene is THAT stacked. If thats the only change and all the NA and EU koreans come back there will be a lot of retirements :/ WCS Korea alone isnt enough to sustain so many players, they would need more tourneys. | ||
krooked
376 Posts
On October 09 2013 01:39 Plansix wrote: Show nested quote + On October 09 2013 01:24 krooked wrote: On October 08 2013 10:31 WolfintheSheep wrote: On October 08 2013 09:54 krooked wrote: It truly is ridiculous that in every thread so many people talk about "healthy downsizing" and "military service". Players are retiring because they don't see a future in the game. I won't even go into if they enjoy it or not - They simply do not believe it to be lucrative to keep playing. Because they know that the scene is on a steep decline. If you can't see this by now I wonder if its just pure denial or stupidity. Nobody is saying that the pro scene will die completely, but sc2 will fall until it is a somewhat niche game for a couple of years before it dies off at last. But don't you guys worry about that, just enjoy the game. Because after all, you are enjoying the game, right? What's truly ridiculous is people like you who actually believe the state of the scene has any impact on a player like Shuttle's earnings. Name an Esport that will support a player without a team, without any tournament results and without good stream numbers. Go ahead. We can wait. Where did I mention Shuttle? Yes, I am aware that this thread is about Shuttle but as I'm sure you've noticed all these retirement-threads tend to have a theme these days. Its "Great stuff, scene is gonna be better, too many players atm" vs "SC2 ded gem". Both sides are too extreme, there is truth in both but whats crazy is that the "ded gem" ppl are mostly trolling while those who cite downsizing is actually dead serious. The trolls are pretty serious too. And the downsizing is natural, since many, but not all, of the players retiring haven't won anything or accomplished much. Right now any team less player can claim he is retiring, even if his professional career never has nothing of note. But people take these claims as some sort of evidence of the game dying. I think the trolls more likes to justify leaving starcraft. Personally I almost never play sc2 anymore and mostly play league or bw, and I can understand why the trolls are saying what they are. My view on starcraft2's future went from "hopeful" to pessimistic the second I realized its not THAT important to me. Players retiring can easily be explained as natural downsizing: I agree that most of the players retiring aren't really big names a tall, they are high level jobbers at best. And I certainly don't think the scene is literally going to die anytime soon. But its the combination of a lot of players retiring, statements from players like Bisu, the obvious problems sc2 is facing in Korea, in game problems (deathball vs deathball, stale meta etc are common things people complain about), the fact that league is doing so very well and that recruitment for sc2 doesn't seem very big - All the friends I know who bought sc2 have went on to other games, and when I try to recruit new players they just don't like the game. I think this goes for a lot of other people. Basically, sc2 is in a tight spot right now. Not a "sc2 is dead and nobody will be playing this game in 2014"-tight, but still. | ||
DoubleAce
United States108 Posts
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ejac
United States1195 Posts
On October 09 2013 13:55 DoubleAce wrote: Is he retiring from esports for good? Or is he like Bisu and going back to BW? Cause I see him stream sometime.. That's a different Shuttle. The one who streams bw played on STX Soul back in bw. | ||
AyaaLa
Spain629 Posts
On October 09 2013 02:12 geokilla wrote: Show nested quote + On October 09 2013 02:08 lolfail9001 wrote: On October 09 2013 02:05 Die4Ever wrote: WCS KR 2014 will be very interesting with a full reset on Code S/A and many returning koreans lol. In fact i am sure that Soulkey and probably lot more favorites won't qualify at all in those qualifiers. Yes, Korean scene is THAT stacked. Korea was always stacked. GSL and OSL will be prestigious once again. WCS NA and EU on the other hand... *yawn* Can anyone in NA beat Polt? I'd say Suppy and DeMuslim and Scarlett has a chance, off the top of my head. But otherwise, Polt would probably be the favourite? DeMuslim is nowhere near to beat Scarlett and Polt. They are on another planets compared to him. He will keep chokeing in "important" tournaments like always. I don''t understand the hype of DeMuslim, its on the level on the Lucifron hype. It's annoying as hell. Why cant people just be realistic????? =.= | ||
AzZa651
Denmark39 Posts
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lessQQmorePEWPEW
Jamaica921 Posts
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mantequilla
Turkey775 Posts
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