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Bisu's first interview after his retirement - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10246 Posts
October 01 2013 03:59 GMT
#81
On stream he said he makes more money playing Afreeca than he would have playing SC2, LOL. That just shows where the money and fanbase lies, considering the fanbase is pretty much directly supporting Afreeca players. GG.
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
Sub40APM
Profile Joined August 2010
6336 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-01 04:10:21
October 01 2013 04:09 GMT
#82
On October 01 2013 12:59 Jealous wrote:
On stream he said he makes more money playing Afreeca than he would have playing SC2, LOL. That just shows where the money and fanbase lies, considering the fanbase is pretty much directly supporting Afreeca players. GG.

it makes sense, he was pretty terrible at SC2. He admits it as much in the interview too, but the BW elitists chose to ignore that part of his interview and focus on the "SCII sucks" train. He felt badly being bad at the game and went back to the one where he was better.
“I have a burden to prove myself. Losing games gives me even more of these burdens. I couldn't see the hope of improvement and I couldn't get rid of this burden. So, I retired.

Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10246 Posts
October 01 2013 04:18 GMT
#83
On October 01 2013 13:09 Sub40APM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2013 12:59 Jealous wrote:
On stream he said he makes more money playing Afreeca than he would have playing SC2, LOL. That just shows where the money and fanbase lies, considering the fanbase is pretty much directly supporting Afreeca players. GG.

it makes sense, he was pretty terrible at SC2. He admits it as much in the interview too, but the BW elitists chose to ignore that part of his interview and focus on the "SCII sucks" train. He felt badly being bad at the game and went back to the one where he was better.
Show nested quote +
“I have a burden to prove myself. Losing games gives me even more of these burdens. I couldn't see the hope of improvement and I couldn't get rid of this burden. So, I retired.


I would still expect an A-teamer with as much marketability as Bisu to make more than fan-based donations would ever net him. Considering this is a person who had a 350k salary, won the final match of the last true BW finals... I expect his market value to be above whatever he can make streaming. Note that he didn't just say it was HIS salary that was meager, but SC2 players in general. Sure, you will have your Innovations that are probably raking in the dough, but if it is not worth it for the majority of the players, many of which can apparently make more money playing Afreeca...

As hard as it might be, I think it's time to stop discrediting arguments by throwing "BW elitist" somewhere in your post. Facts are facts, Bisu had no reason to lie and probably had many reasons not to say anything about it at all.
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
October 01 2013 04:28 GMT
#84
Goodluck in the future Bisu

(also, yay more negativity)
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
29 fps
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States5724 Posts
October 01 2013 04:33 GMT
#85
thanks for the translation. i hope he does well in the ssl
4v4 is a battle of who has the better computer.
Sub40APM
Profile Joined August 2010
6336 Posts
October 01 2013 04:46 GMT
#86
On October 01 2013 13:18 Jealous wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2013 13:09 Sub40APM wrote:
On October 01 2013 12:59 Jealous wrote:
On stream he said he makes more money playing Afreeca than he would have playing SC2, LOL. That just shows where the money and fanbase lies, considering the fanbase is pretty much directly supporting Afreeca players. GG.

it makes sense, he was pretty terrible at SC2. He admits it as much in the interview too, but the BW elitists chose to ignore that part of his interview and focus on the "SCII sucks" train. He felt badly being bad at the game and went back to the one where he was better.
“I have a burden to prove myself. Losing games gives me even more of these burdens. I couldn't see the hope of improvement and I couldn't get rid of this burden. So, I retired.


I would still expect an A-teamer with as much marketability as Bisu to make more than fan-based donations would ever net him. Considering this is a person who had a 350k salary, won the final match of the last true BW finals... I expect his market value to be above whatever he can make streaming. Note that he didn't just say it was HIS salary that was meager, but SC2 players in general. Sure, you will have your Innovations that are probably raking in the dough, but if it is not worth it for the majority of the players, many of which can apparently make more money playing Afreeca...

As hard as it might be, I think it's time to stop discrediting arguments by throwing "BW elitist" somewhere in your post. Facts are facts, Bisu had no reason to lie and probably had many reasons not to say anything about it at all.
Look at his quote, he isnt complaining about being stressed out about just 'being one of the guys', what affected him was that he went from being a top 4-5 player in the world to being a mediocre player, and he felt he wouldnt be able to stop being mediocire. My comment about BW elitists is just about the tone of most responses on this page. "Look, even Bisu admits this game sucks compared to BW!". You could interpret his overall post not only that "BW>SC2" but just as easily as "I suck at SC2, I am good at BW, I feel a huge emotional turmoil from being a huge BW star and turning into a mediocre SC2 player and I cant handle it" and then you could add the reality that most teams dont want to pay a lot of money for once great players who have mediocre results.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-01 05:28:45
October 01 2013 05:28 GMT
#87
On October 01 2013 13:46 Sub40APM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2013 13:18 Jealous wrote:
On October 01 2013 13:09 Sub40APM wrote:
On October 01 2013 12:59 Jealous wrote:
On stream he said he makes more money playing Afreeca than he would have playing SC2, LOL. That just shows where the money and fanbase lies, considering the fanbase is pretty much directly supporting Afreeca players. GG.

it makes sense, he was pretty terrible at SC2. He admits it as much in the interview too, but the BW elitists chose to ignore that part of his interview and focus on the "SCII sucks" train. He felt badly being bad at the game and went back to the one where he was better.
“I have a burden to prove myself. Losing games gives me even more of these burdens. I couldn't see the hope of improvement and I couldn't get rid of this burden. So, I retired.


I would still expect an A-teamer with as much marketability as Bisu to make more than fan-based donations would ever net him. Considering this is a person who had a 350k salary, won the final match of the last true BW finals... I expect his market value to be above whatever he can make streaming. Note that he didn't just say it was HIS salary that was meager, but SC2 players in general. Sure, you will have your Innovations that are probably raking in the dough, but if it is not worth it for the majority of the players, many of which can apparently make more money playing Afreeca...

As hard as it might be, I think it's time to stop discrediting arguments by throwing "BW elitist" somewhere in your post. Facts are facts, Bisu had no reason to lie and probably had many reasons not to say anything about it at all.
Look at his quote, he isnt complaining about being stressed out about just 'being one of the guys', what affected him was that he went from being a top 4-5 player in the world to being a mediocre player, and he felt he wouldnt be able to stop being mediocire. My comment about BW elitists is just about the tone of most responses on this page. "Look, even Bisu admits this game sucks compared to BW!". You could interpret his overall post not only that "BW>SC2" but just as easily as "I suck at SC2, I am good at BW, I feel a huge emotional turmoil from being a huge BW star and turning into a mediocre SC2 player and I cant handle it" and then you could add the reality that most teams dont want to pay a lot of money for once great players who have mediocre results.

Bisu meant that his motivation to improve at SCII also went away when the audience shrunk big time so I think that contributed majorly to how bad his play was and why he 'sucked'. He has the APM and multitasking if you've ever seen his fpv. He is known as the 'multitasker' in BW because he can hit at so many places at once. He can run circles around Innovation with his multitasking yet he's doing badly. Why? When you're someone like him who experienced the cheers of the audience and that was your motivation for improvement, then it's gone, well, you ask yourself what's the point?

“It’s not only me. Other players felt the same. When seeing an empty venue, it is really hard to find the right sense of competition. When we see no fans, then it is meaningless to train so hard to play competitively.”

Furthermore, like the other TLBS players, he had to prove himself and it makes it difficult do so immense pressure to perform but lack of motivation when you also consider that the fans left:

"If Bisu is a b-teamer, he probably will not retire. But as a member of the TaekBangLeeSsang, the representatives of best of the best in esports, the attention is tremendous.
“I have a burden to prove myself. Losing games gives me even more of these burdens. I couldn't see the hope of improvement and I couldn't get rid of this burden. So, I retired."

Losing the fans made him lose his drive and without it, he started losing more games eventually he had to decide whether to keep losing games or retires. He would've been able to move away from mediocrity(he actually was 50% in PL and took out rorO when HoTS first released who was last WoL champion) if the fans were there alas, it wasn't the case. Either way, he went back to what he loved. BW is where Bisu belongs imo
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
KeksX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany3634 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-01 07:22:36
October 01 2013 07:13 GMT
#88
While I understand his decision, I feel a it's a little bit unfair to his foreigner fans. There are a ton of western/foriegners that loved Bisu and would've gone to see him play - but he was only in Korea and couldn't see it. (Don't get me wrong, I completely respect him, I just wanted to make this point!)

I don't think The Tyrant is going to retire soon, and I think Flash feels the same. Because they saw it. They saw how passionate people are about SC2, and how passionate they are for those players. When Jaedong first played SC2, I did not care that he was not as good as everyone else and just got nerdchills because it's him and he tried to live on the legacy. And now looking at it, it's like BW all over again. Just not Courage, but regular tournaments. And I'm 100% confident that one day he will be the Jaedong we all know again.
Flash, on the other hand, might be different. I think his mindset is still too similar to Bisu's.

Before SC2 was released, BW was actually not as popular as we wanted it to be. MBC Game closing and everything, BW was still on the decline even when SC2 wasn't doing well at all. One could argue that this was because of the SC2 release, but I think in the end I think we can agree to this:

Most fans moved on, either to other games(LoL) or to the "next Starcraft", even though it might not be a "real" Starcraft, or whatever your opinion is.

A programer can now decide to come with us, or leave. Most stayed, some left. This is the way things go in life, and even though it's sad to see the people go, especially when it's a player like Bisu, I look forward to the future we have with our current players. I don't want to make a point here that BW is dead, it's not. Not by a long shot. But when we talk about the eSports scene BW is just not as relevant as we would like it to be(And I am a BW fan, too.). So it kinda feels like "leaving" when players go back to BW.

SC2 is still new compared to what we had in BW. We might not have an MBC Game again, we might not have the old Pro League, but we will definitely have the next best thing!
Boonbag
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France3318 Posts
October 01 2013 07:35 GMT
#89
On October 01 2013 16:13 KeksX wrote:
While I understand his decision, I feel a it's a little bit unfair to his foreigner fans. There are a ton of western/foriegners that loved Bisu and would've gone to see him play - but he was only in Korea and couldn't see it. (Don't get me wrong, I completely respect him, I just wanted to make this point!)

I don't think The Tyrant is going to retire soon, and I think Flash feels the same. Because they saw it. They saw how passionate people are about SC2, and how passionate they are for those players. When Jaedong first played SC2, I did not care that he was not as good as everyone else and just got nerdchills because it's him and he tried to live on the legacy. And now looking at it, it's like BW all over again. Just not Courage, but regular tournaments. And I'm 100% confident that one day he will be the Jaedong we all know again.
Flash, on the other hand, might be different. I think his mindset is still too similar to Bisu's.

Before SC2 was released, BW was actually not as popular as we wanted it to be. MBC Game closing and everything, BW was still on the decline even when SC2 wasn't doing well at all. One could argue that this was because of the SC2 release, but I think in the end I think we can agree to this:

Most fans moved on, either to other games(LoL) or to the "next Starcraft", even though it might not be a "real" Starcraft, or whatever your opinion is.

A programer can now decide to come with us, or leave. Most stayed, some left. This is the way things go in life, and even though it's sad to see the people go, especially when it's a player like Bisu, I look forward to the future we have with our current players. I don't want to make a point here that BW is dead, it's not. Not by a long shot. But when we talk about the eSports scene BW is just not as relevant as we would like it to be(And I am a BW fan, too.). So it kinda feels like "leaving" when players go back to BW.

SC2 is still new compared to what we had in BW. We might not have an MBC Game again, we might not have the old Pro League, but we will definitely have the next best thing!



sigh at the delirium in the sc2 forums..
Jayson X
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Switzerland2431 Posts
October 01 2013 07:38 GMT
#90
I think between bisu, flash and jaedong, bisu was always the more sensible guy. How is he to blame? To everyone who has ever performed infront of an audience (be it gaming, music or sport) and then received the love, let me tell you it's a feeling that goes beyond what you can imagine. You do it for them, always trying to improve, giving them something new.

I think it's quite sad to see a great player leave in such a fashion but I understand. No need to grind it out if your main motivation is making your fans happy. I think flash and jaedong are still different. They do it for the competition and personal challenge.
Boonbag
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France3318 Posts
October 01 2013 07:46 GMT
#91
On October 01 2013 16:38 Jayson X wrote:
I think between bisu, flash and jaedong, bisu was always the more sensible guy. How is he to blame? To everyone who has ever performed infront of an audience (be it gaming, music or sport) and then received the love, let me tell you it's a feeling that goes beyond what you can imagine. You do it for them, always trying to improve, giving them something new.

I think it's quite sad to see a great player leave in such a fashion but I understand. No need to grind it out if your main motivation is making your fans happy. I think flash and jaedong are still different. They do it for the competition and personal challenge.


they do what their sponsor tells them to do
NarutO
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Germany18839 Posts
October 01 2013 07:56 GMT
#92
This is so depressing to read...
CommentatorPolt | MMA | Jjakji | BoxeR | NaDa | MVP | MKP ... truly inspiring.
BadAim
Profile Joined September 2011
Norway879 Posts
October 01 2013 08:31 GMT
#93
"Fans left, so did my heart."

Breaking mine...
My esports soul belongs to: Boxer | White-Ra | Daigo Umehara | Nazgul | IceFrog
fuzzylogic44
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada2633 Posts
October 01 2013 08:48 GMT
#94
On October 01 2013 06:30 Glioburd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2013 06:16 tomastaz wrote:
</3 if only sc2 was more popular in Korea </3

If only they didn't have switched on SC2 in Korea... xd


BW was declining as well, remember. Sure, it might have lasted a few more years but it was guaranteed to fizzle out soon with the era of LoL upon us. SC2 was a chance to sustain the RTS/starcraft scene into the future, even if initially it was a painful transition. Right now it's looking like it hasn't panned out that well in Korea, but that doesn't mean it wasn't the right decision.
Arco
Profile Joined September 2009
United States2090 Posts
October 01 2013 08:54 GMT
#95
On October 01 2013 13:09 Sub40APM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2013 12:59 Jealous wrote:
On stream he said he makes more money playing Afreeca than he would have playing SC2, LOL. That just shows where the money and fanbase lies, considering the fanbase is pretty much directly supporting Afreeca players. GG.

it makes sense, he was pretty terrible at SC2. He admits it as much in the interview too, but the BW elitists chose to ignore that part of his interview and focus on the "SCII sucks" train. He felt badly being bad at the game and went back to the one where he was better.
Show nested quote +
“I have a burden to prove myself. Losing games gives me even more of these burdens. I couldn't see the hope of improvement and I couldn't get rid of this burden. So, I retired.


You choose to ignore the part where he said the fans stopped coming and he didn't want to play a game he didn't like. If he was passionate about it and Korean eSports fans actually liked it you bet he would be good at it.
Stratos
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Czech Republic6104 Posts
October 01 2013 09:20 GMT
#96
So great to hear he considers participating in SSL. I want that to happen so badly.
En Taro Violet
purgerinho
Profile Joined June 2008
Croatia919 Posts
October 01 2013 09:43 GMT
#97
On October 01 2013 05:48 fuzzylogic44 wrote:
Bisu's impression about the fanbase seems to be objectively incorrect. It's true it dropped drastically compared to BW but it then steadily improved with way larger crowds (than when it switched) for Starleague and Proleague. He made it seem like a continuous downward trend.


bw finals were played in front of thousands, sc2 finals (in korea) are played in front of less people.. i remember one SPL game, camera went through crowd and there was seven (7!) people....
SUMMARIZED (by DeMu): You CANNOT surprise a top level Protoss with a build
thezanursic
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
5497 Posts
October 01 2013 10:04 GMT
#98
He got like 2.5k viewers on snipealot yesterday. Wonder how many Koreans are watching his stream over Afreeca.
http://i45.tinypic.com/9j2cdc.jpg Let it be so!
thezanursic
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
5497 Posts
October 01 2013 10:07 GMT
#99
On October 01 2013 17:48 fuzzylogic44 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2013 06:30 Glioburd wrote:
On October 01 2013 06:16 tomastaz wrote:
</3 if only sc2 was more popular in Korea </3

If only they didn't have switched on SC2 in Korea... xd


BW was declining as well, remember. Sure, it might have lasted a few more years but it was guaranteed to fizzle out soon with the era of LoL upon us. SC2 was a chance to sustain the RTS/starcraft scene into the future, even if initially it was a painful transition. Right now it's looking like it hasn't panned out that well in Korea, but that doesn't mean it wasn't the right decision.

If Blizzard hadn't intervened we would have had a couple more years of OSLs and possibly MSLs after that we would have had a couple more online (like we do have). Basically Blizzard artificially cut out half a dozen years out of BWs life span (a lot more than SC2 would have lasted anyway.)
http://i45.tinypic.com/9j2cdc.jpg Let it be so!
niteReloaded
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Croatia5282 Posts
October 01 2013 10:22 GMT
#100
Bisu so sincere T_T

I would like so much if BW starts to sprout again, from barren earth.
The shiny, artificial, fabricated SC2 collapses, and BW comes to life.
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