EPTUpdated Balance Test Map - Page 27
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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On September 28 2013 07:03 rikter wrote: No, they buffed tanks in the name of offsetting the widowmine nerf. Its probably a pretty even trade, but the composition requires more control than pure mine. ...and if they make less mines and more tanks, that would be the net result called variety. | ||
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Zheryn
Sweden3653 Posts
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Schroedinger
Germany80 Posts
You will never be able to deal with mutalisks without mines. Marine/Tank is inferior in pretty much every single aspect. Even nerfed mines should accomplish more than a "slightly" buffed tank could ever hope for.... | ||
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Doc Brawler
United States260 Posts
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KrazyTrumpet
United States2520 Posts
On September 28 2013 08:51 Schroedinger wrote: I can´t see tanks replacing the widowmines. You will never be able to deal with mutalisks without mines. Marine/Tank is inferior in pretty much every single aspect. Even nerfed mines should accomplish more than a "slightly" buffed tank could ever hope for.... I believe the intent is to get people to use mines WITH tanks, not get rid of mines entirely. That would just trade one unit for another... | ||
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Sabu113
United States11075 Posts
PvT requires different things on both sides of the matchup. One side does more clicking the other a lot more thinking about positioning. Anyway here's to hoping that 4 oracle PvT style takes off. Sounds neat. | ||
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Schroedinger
Germany80 Posts
As soon as you add tanks to bio/mine your adding a lot of weaknesses. Bio/Mine is extremly mobile and expendable but by adding tanks you pretty remove those core strenghts. It would be cute to see tanks but people like to win ... | ||
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Kitaen
Austria466 Posts
maybe, just maybe we would see some terrans on the defensive side in a couple of games while protoss and zerg has to break them before t3 really comes into play the mech upgrade thing is already a nice step into that direction, but then again, its not the upgrades that makes terran t3 bad same goes for carriers aswell ofc if protoss and terran t3 air units gets more accessable the meta game will naturally shift to more aggression during early/mid game to prevent teching and we wont see protoss turtling to deathball every game or terrans 3 cc into rally marines vs zerg | ||
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danbel1005
United States1319 Posts
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Sabu113
United States11075 Posts
On September 28 2013 10:44 danbel1005 wrote: Roach burrow speed is so OP. RIP toss. I could live with entertaining busts for a month. Or hell someone testing how a roach max with burrow does. | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On September 28 2013 11:12 Sabu113 wrote: I could live with entertaining busts for a month. Or hell someone testing how a roach max with burrow does. Zerg dont usually get burrow, so the increased burrow speed doesnt really matter ... except for those enterprising wood league fellows and there it will wreck. | ||
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SheaR619
United States2399 Posts
On September 28 2013 10:14 Schroedinger wrote: I get the "intent" but how do tanks help me against massive muta clouds ? As soon as you add tanks to bio/mine your adding a lot of weaknesses. Bio/Mine is extremly mobile and expendable but by adding tanks you pretty remove those core strenghts. It would be cute to see tanks but people like to win ... I dont understand this myself. I cant find a situation where terran going bio would make tanks AND mines. I feel like they are pretty much going to have to pick one or the other. Otherwise it just better to go pure mech if you are making both of these units. | ||
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ETisME
12627 Posts
On September 28 2013 15:05 Rabiator wrote: Zerg dont usually get burrow, so the increased burrow speed doesnt really matter ... except for those enterprising wood league fellows and there it will wreck. what? you are confused about causation and conclusion why zerg doesn't get burrow is because it isn't that effective but if burrow has more functions, then obviously zerg will get more burrow play | ||
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DomeGetta
480 Posts
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On September 28 2013 16:26 ETisME wrote: what? you are confused about causation and conclusion why zerg doesn't get burrow is because it isn't that effective but if burrow has more functions, then obviously zerg will get more burrow play Its only a small increase in functionality for burrowed Roaches. Do you REALLY believe that people will say "it wasnt worth it before, but now it is" from just a simple speed increase? Apart from the fact that burrowed Roaches cant be caught by unstimmed Marines (2.25 speed and regeneration vs 2.25 speed and no "fire while moving") or Stalkers - which makes the increase rather ridiculous - it all depends upon the usefulness of Roaches in the first place. They havent really been used that much as the sole part of an army and thus any "tricksy burrowed movement" tactics wont work because that would break up the army into two separate clumps which dont synergize with each other. | ||
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ETisME
12627 Posts
On September 28 2013 16:54 Rabiator wrote: Its only a small increase in functionality for burrowed Roaches. Do you REALLY believe that people will say "it wasnt worth it before, but now it is" from just a simple speed increase? Apart from the fact that burrowed Roaches cant be caught by unstimmed Marines (2.25 speed and regeneration vs 2.25 speed and no "fire while moving") or Stalkers - which makes the increase rather ridiculous - it all depends upon the usefulness of Roaches in the first place. They havent really been used that much as the sole part of an army and thus any "tricksy burrowed movement" tactics wont work because that would break up the army into two separate clumps which dont synergize with each other. why not? why not a gimmicky 2 base all in against a toss for example, or a better option against mass gateway all in which some zerg used burrow roach to some success? you can burrow out from the forcefields easier rather than half of the roaches get slaughter by immortals what about multi prone harass from roach hydra against a toss is now even better. just because roaches aren't useful in a high supply battle, doesn't make them don't have their own role to fill. | ||
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DusTerr
2520 Posts
On September 28 2013 09:18 Doc Brawler wrote: ahhheeeem... nerf widow mine, buff tank, BUFF THOR anti-air... aheemmmm *cough cough* It's quite clear the tank isn't going to see a major buff (even the 10% faster shot is surprising). My dream is to see the thor shuttled around in speedvacs. It just needs to have some utility/reason for it to be done. (Also, as cool as it is to see when a medivac carries a thor, the should make it a normal animation so it can "hide"). | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On September 28 2013 16:39 DomeGetta wrote: LOL - yesss innovation eliminated by soO - based on reverse logic this nerf terran patch (that's not about balance! it's about diversity in play! but it only nerfs 1 race and buffs the other 2! lolol) is looking even more necessary than before... Dimaga owns flash... Nerchiro owns forgg.... soO owns innovation? the "best player in the world" - still waiting to hear from someone about the foreign terrans rolling the korean zergs... oh wait.. Your examples are bad, because of your 3matches one is korean vs korean and one is foreigner vs foreign-training-korean (forgg has been staying in the Millenium house in France since forever). Nevertheless, I'm gonna do the stupid "let's throw out examples though they don't prove anything" with you, just so that you can see it does happen: HeRoMaRinE beat Hyun Lucifron beat Yugioh Sjow beat Life | ||
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Zheryn
Sweden3653 Posts
On September 28 2013 17:07 Big J wrote: Your examples are bad, because of your 3matches one is korean vs korean and one is foreigner vs foreign-training-korean (forgg has been staying in the Millenium house in France since forever). Nevertheless, I'm gonna do the stupid "let's throw out examples though they don't prove anything" with you, just so that you can see it does happen: HeRoMaRinE beat Hyun Lucifron beat Yugioh Sjow beat Life People love to throw out examples that "prove" their own point  "Oh my god Innovation lost a game against a zerg and he's the best player in the world, now he doesn't have 100% win rate, Z imba!"Personally, I will probably have a much harder time in ZvT after the patch. I play a ground-based style which works fine against widow mines, but it feels like tanks will shut that down. In pro games muta/ling/bane is already so dominant, and it feels like these changes will just force zergs into it even more. I would love if roach/hydra, roach/bane, ling/infestor, ling/ultra/bane etc were more viable so we could see some more diversity, but I feel like these changes does the opposite. | ||
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