EPT6 possible balance changes - David Kim - Page 36
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MrLightning
306 Posts
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On September 24 2013 12:09 rd wrote: Balance starts at the top level, not the bottom. Whether he can micro or not is irrelevant. Not many zergs have the capacity to split their banelings to sufficiently mitigate the AoE damage of Widow Mines, but a lot of top pros do. A nerf may benefit the general amateur community, but all it takes is one tip over the edge to open the flood gate and cripple Terrans at the highest level. These kind of changes should always be approached with caution -- which is exactly what Blizzard is doing this time around, fortunately. Granted, the quoted poster probably wasn't even making the argument I just did and he definitely shouldn't be allowed to post what he did, but I'll just clarify on his behalf what he should have said. I know balance starts at the top level, however there is SIGNIFICANTLY more micro than "just split banelings lul". In any given fight you have to 1) Send lings in 2) Split lings/surround marines so they dont kite endlessly 3) Micro muta + overseer to targetfire widow mines that are burrowing late (used to be harder with slower overseer) and being careful to not let them get targeted by mines (or itll be gg) 4) Send banelings in 5) Try and get clusters of banelings over clusters of mines while sending the rest to the marines (has to be done, or like medivacs they just retreat after the fight and gain an army advantage slowly over time) And you ALSO want them to split banelings/lings while macroing (including going back to rally point to morph just hatched lings into banelings so you dont fall behind on baneling production and get overwhelmed), spreading creep and injecting? And yes, you have to inject while doing this at the top level because at the top level, the parade push is usually close to endless. Zerg micro is SIGNIFICANTLY more difficult at the top level than any terran claims it is. EDIT: Also, I am not top level (obviously) so I am probably still missing out on nuances that zerg does before the fight and during the fight. | ||
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Doc Daneeka
United States577 Posts
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ETisME
12859 Posts
On September 24 2013 12:09 rd wrote: Balance starts at the top level, not the bottom. Whether he can micro or not is irrelevant. Not many zergs have the capacity to split their banelings to sufficiently mitigate the AoE damage of Widow Mines, but a lot of top pros do. A nerf may benefit the general amateur community, but all it takes is one tip over the edge to open the flood gate and cripple Terrans at the highest level. These kind of changes should always be approached with caution -- which is exactly what Blizzard is doing this time around, fortunately. Granted, the quoted poster probably wasn't even making the argument I just did and he definitely shouldn't be allowed to post what he did, but I'll just clarify on his behalf what he should have said. you don't split against mines. You bait mine hits. You can't split your baneling upon seeing a mine is near by. Zerg had always split their banelings against bio tank, it's just almost nobody notices it once the terran doing the cool marine split. They don't know/remember zerg is also splitting their banelings to avoid tank shots and has to follow the split terran bio. but you can't split against mine, once you see it about to fire, it is too late to split or avoid that hit. | ||
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Hangman89
Singapore43 Posts
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codonbyte
United States840 Posts
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codonbyte
United States840 Posts
On September 24 2013 12:30 Hangman89 wrote: DT speed should be a late game upgrade, maybe in dark shrine or templar archives. or like previously mentioned, it could be tied to the charge upgrade. There you go! I've always hated buildings that have no upgrade when you click on them. Makes their existence feel kinda pointless. | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
On September 24 2013 12:20 althaz wrote: I think all Protoss players would like the Stalker looked at (it loses to every ground unit in the game for cost and some air units, IIRC), because it's SOOO close to being an awesome unit. What it needs is probably a HP buff and vastly reduced firing animation time, however in order for that not to be horribly OP, warp gate or blink would have to be removed (it would probably need further buffs without blink), neither of which is likely to happen. I rather like blink to be honest. It's cool. It's just that it means Stalkers have to be used by themselves or end up abandoning their fellow units (such as sentries) as they blink away when in trouble on the battlefield. I'd prefer they retained it but tweaked it so that Stalkers with blink are not as powerful as they can be in a few situations while strengthening Stalkers so they are more useful through most of the game and in most facets of the game. I think an HP buff or reduced firing time would make the unit OP, especially in the early game (Protoss all-ins would be more difficult to handle). The same for a straight damage buff. As it is the units' usability and scalability I want to see improved, I think better weapon upgrades and/or a research upgrade at TC giving bonus damage to light units may be the way to go. I'd trade these for a small nerf to blink cooldown and maybe a slight increase in blink research cost. This has been on my Protoss wish list for a long time. It's never going to happen, of course. :-/ | ||
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Tayar
United States1439 Posts
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synapse
China13814 Posts
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MrLightning
306 Posts
On September 24 2013 12:39 Tayar wrote: dts should be able to fly to They do. Its called a banshee. | ||
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LimitSEA
Australia9580 Posts
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b4shR
Argentina2 Posts
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IcED Bk
Canada245 Posts
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EagleFighter
United States5 Posts
The Oracle change...Where do I start? Give it an additional ability to be upgraded at the fleet beacon or increase the range and reduce the damage. Or make it permanent detector...That would make it much more viable late game because of its mobility. Why make it cheaper to make it used more early game in cheeses...Defeats the goal DT Speed - I like this as I think it allows Protoss the ability to deal with Terran drops more effectively. It's a harassment unit anyway so I don't see this change doing a whole lot. (I don't think they buff the speed as much as they did, probably about 1/2 or 3/4). Terran Mech - I'm all for it - I want to watch something other than Biomine and this is at least a step in the right direction. | ||
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geokilla
Canada8255 Posts
Which has a movement speed of 2.75. That's slower than the current DT. | ||
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Vestige
United States303 Posts
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lorestarcraft
United States1049 Posts
On September 24 2013 12:54 geokilla wrote: Which has a movement speed of 2.75. That's slower than the current DT. And costs less gas... and can be repaired... and comes out of a building you get anyway... | ||
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sM.Zik
Canada2553 Posts
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On September 24 2013 12:53 EagleFighter wrote: Just for every Terran player freaking out about the Widow Mine nerf it ONLY reduces the SPLASH radius. It makes it less powerful vs Zerg, plain and simple. The widow mine drop will still kill large amounts of clumped up workers and will still kill clumps of lings it just won't allow them to determine engagements in TvZ - The widow mine needed a nerf as was clear in the ZvT Win Ratios. Which ZvT win Ratios are you talking about? In Korea after the overseer buff, ZvT is Z favored...Or do we just look at Innovation games? | ||
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