On September 24 2013 11:48 Zambrah wrote: I'd rather see Protoss units worked on in a more creative fashion. Speedier and cheapier units, I mean sure its nice, but I dont think Protoss needs this right now. At least not in this form.
You know what I'd like to see? Some Stalker changes. Now THAT is a harassment unit. Blink Stalkers are one of the best units in the game as far as my beliefs are involved. Not BUFFS, but rebalancing so they're not just meaty low-DPS... spider leg robot... things. Like a slight rebalancing of -10 HP and a buff to their firing animation or damage or damage scaling or something.
Terran changes looking solid. Window Mines were dumb. Tanks are a Terran unit I can seriously get behind. I say this as someone with a distaste for the Terran race.
Or just give back to Protoss their generic walking photon cannon, the dragoon. Maybe tone its damage down, give it default move speed, and then blink so they can call it a stalker and take credit for creating a new unit.
On September 24 2013 11:29 TheRabidDeer wrote: Before you could kill like 25 banelings in 1 (perfect) hit
God FORBID that Zergs split their banes, really SO much micro...
Responses like this should really not be allowed. The most one sided ridiculous comment ever. I want to see you micro your army and split banes against biomine. Would love to see it.
On September 24 2013 10:04 MarlieChurphy wrote: PS- I don't think that WM nerf is enough.
seriously? as a zerg player i not only think it's enough but feel it might tip tvz distinctly in our favor. the siege tank dps buff isn't really significant enough to offset it at all
Well how big is .65 really? The size of a baneling or something? I don't actually know. I think the splash radius of the thing is the least of the problems it presents. It is a step in the right direction, but it seems like its a blind man's foot, and he doesn't have his cane.
The area of effect if the nerf goes through is 3.8. Right now its at 9.61
Not sure how I feel about these. I guess it'll be interesting to see how the testing turns out. It seems like they've been pushing this combined upgrades thing for a long time.
You know what I'd like to see? Some Stalker changes. Now THAT is a harassment unit. Blink Stalkers are one of the best units in the game as far as my beliefs are involved. Not BUFFS, but rebalancing so they're not just meaty low-DPS... spider leg robot... things. Like a slight rebalancing of -10 HP and a buff to their firing animation or damage or damage scaling or something.
Never going to happen, Brotoss. I've been wanting this for a long long time now. I'd gladly trade better weapon upgrades for the Stalker for a slight nerf to Blink so that it is more an all-around unit usable in most situations throughout the game.
So, I don't think the tank changes will make mech viable TvP or anything like that, but does it make it make more sense for Terrans to add 2-3 tanks into their compositions out of the factory they already have? If you're going MMMVG have are getting +1 air, suddenly a small amount of tanks are a much more appealing investment, because they'll be +1 tanks with a bonus equating to another +1, instead of +0. They'll be substantially better against Zealots, and Protoss won't want to make immortals to kill two tanks when they'd rather be making Colossi out of those Robos.
It seems like adding in a tank or three to your regular MMMVG composition is much more attractive of a prospect. But is it attractive enough to be worth doing?
Seems like blizzard wants to make changes for the sake of making changes. Arguably all of the terran match ups are already really entertaining, especially TvZ. I'm not sure why they are unhappy with the current state of the game. Brood war got along just fine with the same amazing patch for years.. never needing an update.
Obviously not all of the sc2 match ups are incredible. PvZ could probably use some work. PvP as well. I think they're using too broad a brush here with these updates. Focus on the problem match ups, and leave the ones that are already in a good place alone.
The Tank buff is incredibly underwhelming, IMO and the Widow Mine nerf seems WAY too extreme.
I don't hate any of the other changes (although I'm skeptical that the DT one will make much of a difference), but I do think that instead of making the Oracle cheaper, they should have given it a Fleet Beacon upgrade that makes it a more useful part of the Protoss army somehow. As it stands opening Oracles will be more viable (which is good), but you aren't very likely to ever build a second one.
On September 24 2013 11:29 TheRabidDeer wrote: Before you could kill like 25 banelings in 1 (perfect) hit
God FORBID that Zergs split their banes, really SO much micro...
Responses like this should really not be allowed. The most one sided ridiculous comment ever. I want to see you micro your army and split banes against biomine. Would love to see it.
And I would like to see you target fire collossi with vikings, splitting your army against storms, kiting your bio back from a million zealots and try while doing all of that to snipe/emp templars. Not to mention keep up the macro or lose to an instant 20 zealot reinforcement.
Really just splitting your banes pre-engagement doesn't sound all that bad. And btw your response isn't one sided at all, either.
Regarding the oracle, I think that if the cost is reduced the attack damage or even mechanic should be changed, so as to not make it "hope it doesn't get scouted and do crippling damage or get scouted and lose from investment".
asif DTs are not strong enuf, now ninja toss! me zerg dont mind that much 'cause either i die without detection or i win with detection, but terrans may have a problem in catching dts with scan.
And where's the burrow cost reduction?
the roach speed will change zvz a bit with sneaking 3-4 roaches into main and nat more viable.
Overall, I like the changes!!! (except the dt speed and terran combined upgrades)
On September 24 2013 11:29 TheRabidDeer wrote: Before you could kill like 25 banelings in 1 (perfect) hit
God FORBID that Zergs split their banes, really SO much micro...
Responses like this should really not be allowed. The most one sided ridiculous comment ever. I want to see you micro your army and split banes against biomine. Would love to see it.
Balance starts at the top level, not the bottom. Whether he can micro or not is irrelevant. Not many zergs have the capacity to split their banelings to sufficiently mitigate the AoE damage of Widow Mines, but a lot of top pros do. A nerf may benefit the general amateur community, but all it takes is one tip over the edge to open the flood gate and cripple Terrans at the highest level. These kind of changes should always be approached with caution -- which is exactly what Blizzard is doing this time around, fortunately.
Granted, the quoted poster probably wasn't even making the argument I just did and he definitely shouldn't be allowed to post what he did, but I'll just clarify on his behalf what he should have said.
oracle should not cost the same as phoenix, stupid change. if anything the minerals should be reduced. 75/150 or something makes way more sense then 150/100 as its a support unit mostly; more similar to sentry/HT. You won't be massing them but they shouldn't be making a dent on your minerals.
DT buff is pretty meh, they aren't a good unit don't care.
rest seems really trivial except the mine nerf, which is pretty big. don't know if I approve of it yet without testing
oh and please no for that upgrade combination, doesn't make any sense on a basic starcraft level.
On September 24 2013 10:36 MurDeRsc2 wrote: Wait, they want terran players to use BOTH siege tanks AND widow mines AND bio armies? Was terran already not hard enough? It's already extraordinarly hard to split units properly, siege up in time, burrow in time, but now you've got to do all that at the same time in the heat of battle? This has been a long standing issue... terran has much more to micro while zerg and toss have little to no micro.. oh well this is why I quit this game. HF terran
1AT2e(TAB)e isnt that much different than 1AT2e. Everything should be pre-split anyways, and clicking individual mines and tanks to siege/burrow them is no different than clicking more of 1 type anyways. Also TvZ is incredibly micro intensive for the zerg if you want to get a good arc and send in a few sacrificial lings to trigger mines and split to minimize splash and snipe straggling terran units with mutas (and eventual fungal/abduct/blinding cloud)... ZvT is most certainly not "little to no micro" for the Zerg, arguably still less than terran but not by a large amount.
On September 24 2013 10:48 trada wrote: how could anyone thumbs down the dt speedbuff. the games are gonna be hilarious!
It's really interesting how many of these have stopped being impressive, because the skill level has improved so much. We used to get so excited about marine splits
You know what I'd like to see? Some Stalker changes. Now THAT is a harassment unit. Blink Stalkers are one of the best units in the game as far as my beliefs are involved. Not BUFFS, but rebalancing so they're not just meaty low-DPS... spider leg robot... things. Like a slight rebalancing of -10 HP and a buff to their firing animation or damage or damage scaling or something.
Never going to happen, Brotoss. I've been wanting this for a long long time now. I'd gladly trade better weapon upgrades for the Stalker for a slight nerf to Blink so that it is more an all-around unit usable in most situations throughout the game.
I'm still waiting.
I think all Protoss players would like the Stalker looked at (it loses to every ground unit in the game for cost and some air units, IIRC), because it's SOOO close to being an awesome unit. What it needs is probably a HP buff and vastly reduced firing animation time, however in order for that not to be horribly OP, warp gate or blink would have to be removed (it would probably need further buffs without blink), neither of which is likely to happen.
EPT
