• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:31
CEST 02:31
KST 09:31
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview3[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10
Community News
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !6Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results12026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results
Tourneys
GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base
Brood War
General
Do we have a pimpest plays list? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ (Spoiler) Asl ro8 D winner interview BW General Discussion AI Question
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro8 Day 4 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL22] RO16 Group Stage - 02 - 10 May [ASL21] Ro8 Day 3
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread OutLive 25 (RTS Game) Dawn of War IV Daigo vs Menard Best of 10
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread The Letting Off Steam Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread 3D technology/software discussion
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1658 users

6 possible balance changes - David Kim - Page 33

Forum Index > SC2 General
1350 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 31 32 33 34 35 68 Next
TaishiCi
Profile Joined September 2013
Korea (South)211 Posts
September 24 2013 01:39 GMT
#641
Here I am, the sole Terran on ladder that still does mech TvZ.

Although the tank buff isn't enough to get me to play mech in TvP, it is a good start.

TvT mech will be an even bigger snooze fest with all the turtle bitching with siege.
Dae Han Min Gook Man Sae!!!
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
September 24 2013 01:39 GMT
#642
DT change is the only one I am really against. The rest have potential.
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
scares
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany239 Posts
September 24 2013 01:43 GMT
#643
On September 24 2013 10:39 TaishiCi wrote:
Here I am, the sole Terran on ladder that still does mech TvZ.

Although the tank buff isn't enough to get me to play mech in TvP, it is a good start.

TvT mech will be an even bigger snooze fest with all the turtle bitching with siege.

Isn't that what mech is about

But seriously you bring up a point i often see

"we want mech and positional play to be more important and standard"

somebody mechs

"god watching him siege the opponent to death in a 40 minute game is soo boooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrinnnnngg!!"
Your ad could be here
Antylamon
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1981 Posts
September 24 2013 01:44 GMT
#644
On September 24 2013 10:39 TaishiCi wrote:
TvT mech will be an even bigger snooze fest with all the turtle bitching with siege.

Well, there's always Battlecruisers. If the mech/air weps buff goes through then it will be a lot easier to transition to them, too.
Dingobloo
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia1903 Posts
September 24 2013 01:44 GMT
#645
On September 24 2013 10:19 Radiag wrote:
Upgrades combined: We dont really have a need for that and that wont give a reason to play mech at all.

Widow Mine range decrease: Good in theory but just too much

Siege Tanks: Sounds good, lets see how that goes in testing

Oracles cheaper: NO! Oracles do enough damage for their cost unless you are in higher leagues it is hard to deal with them and that gives Protoss just more All-in possibilties and nothing else than that.

Dark Templar faster: Again NO! Just more DT all-ins.

David Kim, protoss isnt playing defensive because they ONLY can do that, they have enough offensive tools, but the MSC just provides such good defense that it is the safest and easiest way to play and win. The ONLY change that could get Protosses out of their bases and get the matchups balanced are a Widow Mine nerf + a HUGE msc nerf, Photon Overcharge cost @125 energy aswell as decrease its time to 30 sec. Then Protoss cant just turtle, tech up fast and sit safely behind their big Nexus Cannon until they have their Deathball!


The mothership core didn't exist in WoL either but the problem was still the same, only now even more exacerbated because e the tools for the other races to keep you in your base have increased dramatically. I'm not against changes to the MSC to make it more vulnerable to certain timings, but it's use is 100% necessary the way the game is currently balanced.

Likewise if you think Protoss harassment options are sufficent in low numbers you're mistaken. Once static defence goes up you basically have the equivalent of "doom drop" in your arsenal (big warp ins), and even then it's less effective due to the nature of the protoss gateway units reliance on sentries and splash damage as well as having to have that many gateways in reserve.

There are plenty of problems with just blanket increasing the DT's speed and decreasing oracle gas cost but "because protoss has enough harassment options" is not one of them.

saltis
Profile Joined September 2012
159 Posts
September 24 2013 01:45 GMT
#646
On September 24 2013 10:14 xyzz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 10:08 Waise wrote:
On September 24 2013 10:04 MarlieChurphy wrote:
PS- I don't think that WM nerf is enough.

seriously? as a zerg player i not only think it's enough but feel it might tip tvz distinctly in our favor. the siege tank dps buff isn't really significant enough to offset it at all

Why do people so often start with lies about their main race when they try to lobby their balance ideas to the forum community? "As a Terran player I'm baffled by how overpowered my race will be after these changes!" Sure. Terrans have played Marine/Tank before, only now the Marine/Tank will be better than before due to the rapid fire Tanks that don't require siege mode to be researched and now benefit from more easily accessible/cheaper vehicle upgrades, and the WM are still available in the mix too but will kill a few less Lings/Blings in the large engagements than before due to smaller aoe. Don't try to act all dramatic please.


"Marine/Tank will be better than before due to the rapid fire" DUDE , thats ONLY + 9% speed. In other words, every 11th shot mathematically would be "extra-buffed" shot.
Antylamon
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1981 Posts
September 24 2013 01:48 GMT
#647
On September 24 2013 10:45 saltis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 10:14 xyzz wrote:
On September 24 2013 10:08 Waise wrote:
On September 24 2013 10:04 MarlieChurphy wrote:
PS- I don't think that WM nerf is enough.

seriously? as a zerg player i not only think it's enough but feel it might tip tvz distinctly in our favor. the siege tank dps buff isn't really significant enough to offset it at all

Why do people so often start with lies about their main race when they try to lobby their balance ideas to the forum community? "As a Terran player I'm baffled by how overpowered my race will be after these changes!" Sure. Terrans have played Marine/Tank before, only now the Marine/Tank will be better than before due to the rapid fire Tanks that don't require siege mode to be researched and now benefit from more easily accessible/cheaper vehicle upgrades, and the WM are still available in the mix too but will kill a few less Lings/Blings in the large engagements than before due to smaller aoe. Don't try to act all dramatic please.


"Marine/Tank will be better than before due to the rapid fire" DUDE , thats ONLY + 9% speed. In other words, every 11th shot mathematically would be "extra-buffed" shot.

Or every 11th tank.
SheaR619
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2399 Posts
September 24 2013 01:48 GMT
#648
I think the nerf to mines may be TOO much. I think around 1.20-1.30 would be nicer since mine was a good answer to the speed of the mutas and regen. I can not really see terran going marine tanks against zerg because of how good mutas are. I feel that tanks are going to still be too much of a viablility when facing mutas. They want us to incorporate mines into the mix as well but with how much weaker mines are, they might not be worth the 2 supply anymore. This might push the game toward full mech in TvZ considering now that the upgrade are mix allowing viking to combat zerg air more and bio mine will fade out.

Regarding TvP, I see no change to unit composition but dark templar might be too strong with this change. With how fast they are, they can evade the scan range more and push terran to get raven mores or static detection rather than relying on just scan. The hope of still seeing mech in TvP is no where in sight imo.

Lastly I am just happy that tanks are FINALLY ffs getting some attention by the love of god. The combine mech upgrade is a bigger change imo than the attack speed buff. There just too many powerful gap in ability and powerful air that completely shut down tanks for it to matter much but it will be interesting to test.
I may not be the best, but i will be some day...
trada
Profile Joined August 2012
Germany347 Posts
September 24 2013 01:48 GMT
#649
how could anyone thumbs down the dt speedbuff. the games are gonna be hilarious!
~
trada
Profile Joined August 2012
Germany347 Posts
September 24 2013 01:53 GMT
#650
maybe the devs want the game to be so fast paced that not even koreans can keep up and therefore anyone can win again.
~
lessQQmorePEWPEW
Profile Joined November 2011
Jamaica921 Posts
September 24 2013 01:54 GMT
#651
david kim must be drinking these days. why the fuck is he buffing DTs? as if they werent strong enough.. sometimes this guy is a fuckin nut!
Why drink and drive when you can smoke and fly - Bob Marley
xN.07)MaK
Profile Joined January 2006
Spain1159 Posts
September 24 2013 01:55 GMT
#652
On September 24 2013 10:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 10:27 xN.07)MaK wrote:
On September 24 2013 10:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Such stupid ideas for Protoss buff -.-' The ones for Terran and Zerg are at least sensible.

As a Protoss player, I've never had a problem with my dark templar being "too slow". What a silly random buff. You use dark templar for harassing and catching your opponent off guard and all that good stuff, but he doesn't need to be any faster. Now if high templars were faster, then that would be awesome... they wouldn't get sniped from behind due to them being slower than my whole frickin army.

And making the oracle cheaper is supposed to make them appear more frequently in the mid and late game? I don't think so. We don't make oracles after the early game because any anti-air wrecks them, not because they're too expensive. And quite frankly, I'm okay with them just being an early game option. If I want to incorporate air into my main army, I can add a few phoenixes or void rays.


Wow, I thought I'd never see people wanting to buff the high templar. I mean, it's already freaking good, making it faster would mean destruction in the appropiate hands.


I just want it to be able to keep up with the rest of the army, rather than lagging behind. And you can't really make all the other units slower so...


How about blink? So they can catch up with the army AND dodge EMPs like a boss? ;D
El micro es el último recurso que les queda a los que no producen lo suficiente
Antylamon
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1981 Posts
September 24 2013 01:55 GMT
#653
On September 24 2013 10:48 trada wrote:
how could anyone thumbs down the dt speedbuff. the games are gonna be hilarious!

BlackLotus10
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
United States45 Posts
September 24 2013 01:56 GMT
#654
Idk about about this...
Looking for stars in my backpack.
Antylamon
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1981 Posts
September 24 2013 01:58 GMT
#655
Am I the only one who appreciates the Oracle buff? I've tried to make a build using Oracles to shut down mass speedling, but I couldn't pull it off without making it allin due to the huge gas consumption.
Kevin_Sorbo
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada3217 Posts
September 24 2013 02:09 GMT
#656
On September 24 2013 10:48 Antylamon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 10:45 saltis wrote:
On September 24 2013 10:14 xyzz wrote:
On September 24 2013 10:08 Waise wrote:
On September 24 2013 10:04 MarlieChurphy wrote:
PS- I don't think that WM nerf is enough.

seriously? as a zerg player i not only think it's enough but feel it might tip tvz distinctly in our favor. the siege tank dps buff isn't really significant enough to offset it at all

Why do people so often start with lies about their main race when they try to lobby their balance ideas to the forum community? "As a Terran player I'm baffled by how overpowered my race will be after these changes!" Sure. Terrans have played Marine/Tank before, only now the Marine/Tank will be better than before due to the rapid fire Tanks that don't require siege mode to be researched and now benefit from more easily accessible/cheaper vehicle upgrades, and the WM are still available in the mix too but will kill a few less Lings/Blings in the large engagements than before due to smaller aoe. Don't try to act all dramatic please.


"Marine/Tank will be better than before due to the rapid fire" DUDE , thats ONLY + 9% speed. In other words, every 11th shot mathematically would be "extra-buffed" shot.

Or every 11th tank.


no cause they all fire at the same time/rate?

not sure im right though :S
The mind is like a parachute, it doesnt work unless its open. - Zappa
Rain
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
120 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-24 02:11:17
September 24 2013 02:10 GMT
#657
[spoiler]Oracle cost decreased from 150/150 to 150/100

Protoss feels like it has been playing too defensively (outside of Warp Prism harasses). We’re seeing Oracles only being used in the early game, and not much during any other stage of the game. We hope by reducing the gas cost of the Oracle, they’ll be used more throughout the game.



This is actually hilarious especially in TvP.
Protoss plays very aggressive in early games with their proxy stargate and this is not even all in.
and sometimes regardless of knowing what your opponent is going to do you can't stop this.
for example you are going to reaper expend and you scout protoss's base and you can't see 3rd pylon and then you started looking for proxy pylon. even if you find it you only have 4~5 marines and they could be killed by 1 oracle.
Life is not easy, sometimes you need to realize you gotta pack your bags and go back to the real world before you're old and broke with no education.
Holdenintherye
Profile Joined December 2012
Canada1441 Posts
September 24 2013 02:14 GMT
#658
Love the WM and roach changes.
Not sure DT change will really do anything (good)...
Phoobie
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada120 Posts
September 24 2013 02:15 GMT
#659
I look forward to testing these changes, most of them seam interesting and looking mostly in the right direction. The only problem I have is the Oracle; the Oracle's problem is not the cost (minor factor), the real problem is that the Oracle is either caught and halted completely by static defense or wins the game by killing 15 workers cause the opponent did not quite prepare in time. The 2 ends of the spectrum are extreme with little middle ground.

My suggestion: Reduce the damage/attack speed slightly so they don't kill 10 workers in 5 seconds, increase range slightly (like .5) for a little more micro-ability and add an effect to the pulsar beam that disables building activity/attacks if attacking said structure.
"Immortal Roach is pretty good against stalkers" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
captainwaffles
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States1050 Posts
September 24 2013 02:15 GMT
#660
Can someone make a video or something showing how much more effective 2.7 weapon speed tanks are compared to now? Idk if it is really that much better. Obviously 0.3 better but with an attack like the tanks in siege mode that is hard to imagine.
https://x.com/CaptainWaffless
Prev 1 31 32 33 34 35 68 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
SEL Doubles #2
CranKy Ducklings52
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SpeCial 129
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 5720
Artosis 692
Terrorterran 16
NaDa 15
Dota 2
monkeys_forever510
Other Games
summit1g8900
tarik_tv5350
Doublelift2743
Liquid`RaSZi1783
shahzam545
JimRising 350
ViBE60
Mew2King35
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick540
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• musti20045 30
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP26
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Scarra2231
Upcoming Events
Escore
9h 29m
The PondCast
9h 29m
WardiTV Invitational
10h 29m
Zoun vs Ryung
Lambo vs ShoWTimE
Big Brain Bouts
15h 29m
Fjant vs Bly
Serral vs Shameless
OSC
21h 29m
Replay Cast
23h 29m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 9h
RSL Revival
1d 9h
SHIN vs Bunny
ByuN vs Shameless
WardiTV Invitational
1d 10h
Krystianer vs TriGGeR
Cure vs Rogue
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 14h
[ Show More ]
BSL
1d 18h
Artosis vs TerrOr
spx vs StRyKeR
Replay Cast
1d 23h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Cure vs Zoun
Clem vs Lambo
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
BSL
2 days
Dewalt vs DragOn
Aether vs Jimin
GSL
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Soma vs Leta
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
OSC
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Light vs Flash
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-05-05
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
Escore Tournament S2: W6
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W7
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.