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On November 12 2013 08:05 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Why are people saying masters are playing as gold/silver? All the masters here, the lowest they seem to get is diamond/plat after a new season. Seems like a gross exaggeration to me. I'm a former Master player. I got placed in gold this season. I had midterms the last 3 weeks so I couldn't play at all. I did get promoted after 3 obscenely one-sided games but still, it is possible.
It is getting quite hard to be motivated to play. Now that I can play again, I know I will have like 10-15 games of playing worse players just to remotely get back to my level. It seems crazy that I have to give up a whole evening just to have a fair game. It isn't fun for the person that is outclassed or the person who is way better. It's just a waste of time. What was wrong with the old way? I could take a couple weeks off if need be, maybe struggle for a couple games while shaking off the rust but then be back to normal again quickly.
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On November 12 2013 09:36 bertu wrote:Show nested quote +
I could see a little bit.... play low diamond-league players instead of high diamond-league players, but why do you go from high master-league to gold or silver? That's just ridiculous.
I am very skeptic of the descriptions of "high masters playing gold" because of mmr decay. I've never seen it happen. A few of my friends didn't play any games after the beggining of last season, and dropped from playing masters to playing diamonds.It happened to me in my account in a different server. It's also against of all the information we have so far about the caps on the decay. I would guess those descriptions are just off-racing players in unranked games.
No it actually happens. You just need several inactivity periods in a row. One maximum decay drops your MMR little over one league range when you come back. If after playing couple of games you go inactive again and come back after maximum decay has been reached for second time, you will be little over 2 league ranges lower than you were before your first inactivity period.
Of course master league has huge MMR range compared to the other leagues. For example on EU it would take 2.56 x maximum decays to drop a borderline GM to diamond (on NA only 1.6 max decays would be needed). Some weeks ago I saw a former GM playing ranked on EU with mid-platinum MMR.
As it takes about 20 wins more than losses to overcome the max decay (e.g. 20 win - 0 loss), many do not reach their former MMR level before going back to hiatus. And thus over several seasons they drop several league ranges in MMR (their actual skill remains about the same even if they become little rusty). S16 is the fifth HotS season. Every season the ladder becomes more messed up, unless Blizzard makes some corrective changes. For example in this situation it might be a good idea to adjust the decay mechanic to have smaller impact (or remove it entirely) and then reset everyone's MMR. The MMR changes much more rapidly if it starts from a blank state.
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Blizzard really needs to fix this sooner rather than later. It has almost no utility and causes tremendous annoyance.
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ok so this is simple, and im speaking for most of my clan and also ALOT of other people. I see where you guys were going with this MMR change and all that, but it has literally screwed everyone up. Only reason im making a post is because Im speaking up for a lot of people including myself. Last season and this season I have been a top diamond player and playing master players, trying to get masters and have been trying for many years, and the moment im so damn close to getting masters, I get demoted to plat.....and now im going through dealing with 13 time master players in plat, all im trying to do is get back into diamond so I can go on my run for masters again and finally accomplish my goals. But now im stuck facing long term master players who also got demoted due to whatever. Ive been playing this game for near 10 years now, and you guys are seriously ruining the game with this MMR bull now. There are so many unhappy people and the point of the game is to be attracting people and if this is the case I know ALOT of good players that have quit the game because of this. Something needs to be done about this, the fact is there is golds playing long term masters players and things are very messed up now. I understand the fact im not masters yet because it locked up and got a lot tighter, but the fact that all these masters are now scattered playing golds and plats and leagues like that are not fair to your lower league players. The game was not designed just for all the expert players and very good players, its a fan based game where everyone likes to come and have a good time and just give up there time for this amazing game. But im sure you guys have heard a lot about this MMR issue and you guys have done nothing to fix the issue. But it is now a major issue and after today, im just addressing it because it needs to be dealt with. Please do something about this and quick please, because your losing a lot of players due to this and im literally in love with this game, its like my second job. I love everything you guys have done with this game except this 1 thing. My dream is to hit masters and try my best to go pro, im sure its a lot of peoples dreams, but you gotta work super super hard at it. But we need to be given that chance to at least show we are working up and working towards our goals. thanks for your guys time and for reading this I really hope to see some improvements soon <3
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Canada13430 Posts
On November 12 2013 10:00 TeamURViTaL wrote:
ok so this is simple, and im speaking for most of my clan and also ALOT of other people. I see where you guys were going with this MMR change and all that, but it has literally screwed everyone up. Only reason im making a post is because Im speaking up for a lot of people including myself. Last season and this season I have been a top diamond player and playing master players, trying to get masters and have been trying for many years, and the moment im so damn close to getting masters, I get demoted to plat.....and now im going through dealing with 13 time master players in plat, all im trying to do is get back into diamond so I can go on my run for masters again and finally accomplish my goals. But now im stuck facing long term master players who also got demoted due to whatever. Ive been playing this game for near 10 years now, and you guys are seriously ruining the game with this MMR bull now. There are so many unhappy people and the point of the game is to be attracting people and if this is the case I know ALOT of good players that have quit the game because of this. Something needs to be done about this, the fact is there is golds playing long term masters players and things are very messed up now. I understand the fact im not masters yet because it locked up and got a lot tighter, but the fact that all these masters are now scattered playing golds and plats and leagues like that are not fair to your lower league players. The game was not designed just for all the expert players and very good players, its a fan based game where everyone likes to come and have a good time and just give up there time for this amazing game. But im sure you guys have heard a lot about this MMR issue and you guys have done nothing to fix the issue. But it is now a major issue and after today, im just addressing it because it needs to be dealt with. Please do something about this and quick please, because your losing a lot of players due to this and im literally in love with this game, its like my second job. I love everything you guys have done with this game except this 1 thing. My dream is to hit masters and try my best to go pro, im sure its a lot of peoples dreams, but you gotta work super super hard at it. But we need to be given that chance to at least show we are working up and working towards our goals. thanks for your guys time and for reading this I really hope to see some improvements soon <3
Ok buddy please use paragraphs but sure. Its annoying I agree.
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This is a very tough issue with many different angles you can take to argue it.
However, I try to think of it in it's simplest terms. Blizzard wants you to keep playing this game, because if you are, you aren't playing someone else's game.
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Blizzard needs to figure their stuff out, or they're gonna chase away those few of us who are still wanting to jump on occasionally and play sc2.
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On November 12 2013 10:10 OGHalcyon wrote:
This is a very tough issue with many different angles you can take to argue it.
However, I try to think of it in it's simplest terms. Blizzard wants you to keep playing this game, because if you are, you aren't playing someone else's game.
Or maybe you have a professional job or serious studies so you sometimes can't play for days or weeks . . . why should you be demoted if your skill level remains at a similar level? We shouldn't have to be poop-socking basement dwellers to enjoy the ladder. This MMR decay is very hostile to the sort of casual player that Blizzard hopes to gain/retain.
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Do we have player usage statistics for the last several seasons? Are there far fewer players laddering lately?
OR WAIT- what if this is just a natural consequence of a very large proportion of players switching to playing unranked? I think that personally at least half my opponents lately have also been unranked. Maybe its the same player pool, but half of them left ranked play for unranked???? If half the ladder population, probably mostly the lower-ranked half, stopped playing games to find a place in ranked, then all of this might be completely natural and reasonable.
We'd need player statistics for both ranked and unranked play.
Consider this for a sec- if half the population is playing unranked now, and masters is now 3% of the population, then masters would actually represent the top 1.5% of players- or would it?
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Gotta agree. I wanted to start playing a bit more again after being inactive and got placed in gold leage. I am former Master and am playing a lot of Masters in gold leauge, pretty bad.
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I don't understand how you guys have any of these problems. I barely played at all last season and very inconsistently and yet I was placed masters again. If you were actually masters with masters mmr and played regularly.... you should just be masters. I don't know anyone in my clan or friends list that went from masters to plat as long he played regularly and wasn't a bottom dwelling master.
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On November 12 2013 10:28 Salient wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 10:10 OGHalcyon wrote:
This is a very tough issue with many different angles you can take to argue it.
However, I try to think of it in it's simplest terms. Blizzard wants you to keep playing this game, because if you are, you aren't playing someone else's game. Or maybe you have a professional job or serious studies so you sometimes can't play for days or weeks . . . why should you be demoted if your skill level remains at a similar level? We shouldn't have to be poop-socking basement dwellers to enjoy the ladder. This MMR decay is very hostile to the sort of casual player that Blizzard hopes to gain/retain.
Like I said, they want you to play their game and do nothing else. I never said it was fair, nor do I agree with it, but it seems to be the case. I can't think of any other logical reason for MMR decay?
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MMR decay makes sense.... if you can get demoted during season. Otherwise it's dumb.
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On November 12 2013 10:40 Musicus wrote:
Gotta agree. I wanted to start playing a bit more again after being inactive and got placed in gold leage. I am former Master and am playing a lot of Masters in gold leauge, pretty bad.
This is why the system is broken. This is my third season playing on the ladder and I made it to the top of my division in Silver last season. By the end, I was facing players, still in Silver league, that were former gold, plat, and up to diamond. My goal for this season was going to be to make it into gold. But, it's starting to seem impossible if gold league consists of mostly former masters. It stinks playing against players that are WAAAY better than you.
Anyway, tonight I've seen it from the other side too and that stinks as well. I played my placement match, lost, and got dropped into bronze. Then, I went on to stomp on like 5 bronze players in a row. Look, I'm only at high silver skill, but it's still no fun rolling into my opponents base with 50 roaches and just seeing 3 zealots, 4 sentries and a stalker. It's not helping me improve nor is it helping my opponent improve. It's not fun for anyone playing non-competitive games.
I think that the solution is to dump MMR decay and bring back in-season demotion. If you come back after a hiatus and get beat down a few times, so be it. You'll get demoted and end up where you belong according to your skill level. Once you shake off the rust, you'll be right back up in the league you were in before you left.
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Ok, starting to see how this is real. Left the game as a Diamond in Season 4. Got demoted to Plat for season 5 and didn't play much. NOw a gold. Hrm....
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I personally never had any problems with the ladder MMR and always felt like I am where I should be, which is in diamond. I was master the first two seasons of hots but it was just because they reset mmr and I got there before the worthy masters got it. I don't know why everyone is bitching.. you're probably plat level if you're in plat, just get over it.
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On November 12 2013 12:57 sM.Zik wrote:
I personally never had any problems with the ladder MMR and always felt like I am where I should be, which is in diamond. I was master the first two seasons of hots but it was just because they reset mmr and I got there before the worthy masters got it. I don't know why everyone is bitching.. you're probably plat level if you're in plat, just get over it.
Because people who played only maybe 100+ games last season (which is a lot of games) got demoted due to MMR decay. And they have to grind out games against objectively weaker players to get back to their proper level. It sucks for the person who has to grind, and it sucks to the people who get grounded up in the process. People will stop bitching in a week or two once the grinding is done. But it's annoying that Blizzard makes the grinding process necessary every season now just because some people have lives and can't play ladder constantly.
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This explains a lot. Kept playing at the start of the season, wining my placement game, and finding myself a couple of leagues down on the previous season.
Overall it's good I think, but I think it should have a MUCH longer timeline. Something like three months.
EDIT: Though I will say I did find the grind back to Diamond was harder with every season. I just figured it was due to my decline in skill along with everyone else getting better. But if the overall ladder is being deflated, this would explain that also.
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I think the biggest issue is no mid-season demotions so the grind back up feels much longer as there are limited spots in masters.
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finished rank 5 diamond this season, with a 55-60 percent win rate. Won my placement and was placed in platinum. Which sucks a bit, but I think a lot of peoiple this season was placed in platinum, I have a played a shit ton former master league players.
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EPT
