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Rokevo
Finland1033 Posts
sc2 has always been carried by it's name. No one would give a single fuck about the game if it wasn't called Starcraft. The game was always bad, it's just back in 2010-2011 ppl were like "It's okay, blizzard is gonna fix it, it's still a new game, just give it some time" 2012 it was "HotS will fix it". But now people are starting to realize that it wont be fixed, and the game will never be even close to what BW was. User was warned for this post | ||
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Bacillus
Finland1881 Posts
On October 02 2013 16:38 SCguineapig wrote: the thing is, the game is finished. blizzard can't redesign this game anymore. perhaps with LOTV but if they don't set a insanely large team on it, that game will be delayed by perhaps even 2 years. i believe blizzard needs to change it's course a bit though. focus less on wanting to promote harassment and work more on things that are a bit imbalanced. don't nerf or buff something because a certain strategy is being used for a longer period of time. as long as it works it is viable. no need to fuck up the entire game though with a redesign. could be awesome but it could also fail miserably. I don't think SC2 is going to change in any remarkable way, but I'm really happy that people keep making noise about the issues. I want that as many people as possible are aware that the modern mainstream game design isn't all that games can achieve. The more the issues get discussed, hopefully the more people go looking for challenging and interesting things in games rather than just accepting things with the biggest marketing budged. | ||
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Garmer
1286 Posts
On October 02 2013 18:08 MikeMM wrote: Sounds and music are really awful in sc2. The only decent sound was pew pew from Ghosts, but then snipe was nerfed and we don’t hear it anymore. that what i've said in my post, sc2 sounds are really really bad and not just compared to BW, but to any other RTS that i've played, and i have played them all(minus the really bad one) | ||
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Nevermind86
Somalia429 Posts
The game isn't fun. A game should be fun for both the lowest level players to the highest level players and also be good to watch for spectators, SC2 lacks these 3 things I just mentioned, no amount of hype, tournament price or publicity can make up for this. Some may argue the game is "a little fun" but that is not "fun-fun". Let's compare it to BW: I was terrible at BW, but it was fun trying to use vultures' mines and dragoons, and some other units, it's even fun to run an army of zealots into a bunch of lurkers and see them all die and think "Oh shit I screwed up", also the sound of units and death animations were far superior to SC2, which is very important from an spectator point of view. WC3: Was fun to play both at the highest level and the lowest level, when I started playing WC3 I mainly played 2v2 with friends and the combination of unit/heroes made for very different games every time, then I decided to play competitively and I got to be a decent player (Nevermind, night elf in WCreplays.com), I talked a lot with top players and we all had fun playing the game, some match ups were stressing like Orc vs Und, but when you decided to relax a bit and play a little bit of ladder you could always mess around and use fun strategies like Human tower rushes vs all, mass batriders, mass hunts with a bunch of expos or hell even Und tower rushes for the sake of it. The game was not good for spectators though, it was hard to show it to friends that didn't play it. When a game is fun it is fun, period. DOTA with all it's flaws was a very fun game and you could enjoy it if you were bad or good or take a break from competitive play and just mess around with a unkillable Faceless Void with Vanguard/Hood to piss off your team, or something. SC2 was supposed to be well designed, but the emphasis on competition ruined the game. Of course that should always be kept in mind but where is the fun. I cannot watch SC2 anymore or I would fall asleep, and if I show it to friends they would fall asleep too, unlike the good to be seen BW where everybody understood what was happening or the horrible to watch but very fun DOTA that everyone played. This is how a fun as hell and competitive game looks like, it doesn't need explanations and the commentators always have something good to say because something actually happends, SC2 it's a RTS of course but lacks Reaver moments or something that makes the commentators actually get excited about the game they are casting, even a hell of a caster like Husky, doesn't get truly excited about the game he loves and it seems more of a routine. I love UMVC3 :p | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On October 02 2013 23:25 Nevermind86 wrote: The problem with SC2 is very simple: The game isn't fun. A game should be fun for both the lowest level players to the highest level players and also be good to watch for spectators, SC2 lacks these 3 things I just mentioned, no amount of hype, tournament price or publicity can make up for this. Some may argue the game is "a little fun" but that is not "fun-fun". So you don't like the game and think it's not fun and then just assume "Well obviously this game must suck then!". Alright. | ||
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Nevermind86
Somalia429 Posts
On October 02 2013 23:29 KeksX wrote: So you don't like the game and think it's not fun and then just assume "Well obviously this game must suck then!". Alright. You may want to read my arguments in it's entirety. And no, I love BW/WC3 (hell Creolophus beating Sky at WCG meant to me more than Floyd Mayweather beating Saul "Canelo" Alvarez, considering how much of a fan I am of boxing it says a lot about how much I loved those games), and loved SC2, but my love for SC2 quickly died, in about a year and a half, but I'm sure I was not the only one that went through that. | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On October 02 2013 23:33 Nevermind86 wrote: You may want to read my arguments in it's entirety. And no, I love SC and loved SC2, but my love for SC2 quickly died, in about a year and a half but I'm sure I was not the only one that went through that. I completely get what you want to say, but I don't think you can just see yourself and your friends and act like they represent the community. I like the game, I love watching it and playing it. And I know 100k viewers that do that to. And I know a lot of my friends do it too. And I know a complete website that does it too. So your premise "The game isn't fun" is a tiiiiny bit exaggerating which leads to your argument being kinda... lackluster. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On October 02 2013 23:33 Nevermind86 wrote: You may want to read my arguments in it's entirety. And no, I love SC and loved SC2, but my love for SC2 quickly died, in about a year and a half but I'm sure I was not the only one that went through that. My love for SC1 died after 5 games i actually played in it. So, yes, you cannot talk for all. | ||
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Nevermind86
Somalia429 Posts
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On October 02 2013 23:36 Nevermind86 wrote: Everyone agrees, though, that playing SC2 is a bit stressing, that is a big sign that the game isn't fun. Not as fun as BW/DOTA though, which is the point. I'm really, really stressed when I play DotA2. Because I can't play it. But I feel comfortable with SC2 and don't get stressed at all! I believe your argument is too subjective. You can't just take a few forum posts and then make an argument out of it. If we would do that, the interwebs would EXPLODE. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On October 02 2013 23:34 lolfail9001 wrote: My love for SC1 died after 5 games i actually played in it. So, yes, you cannot talk for all. 5 games...*chuckles* Competitively, you barely know how to even play the game after you play all three races in all matchups to get a sense of the game flow. Stop playing a game with a disgruntle mood, you need to dismiss all personal egos going into the game or else you get frustrated and call it a quit because of BW's complexity and deciding options. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On October 02 2013 23:47 Xiphos wrote: 5 games...*chuckles* Competitively, you barely know how to even play the game after you play all three races in all matchups to get a sense of the game flow. Stop playing a game with a disgruntle mood, you need to dismiss all personal egos going into the game or else you get frustrated and call it a quit because of BW's complexity and deciding options. I loved this paragraph of yours. Because you know, i am not fast enough to play the game and love it in the same time  . See, i either play the game, or love it :D. BW is good game, but playing it? Pfft, my wrists worth more.On October 02 2013 23:36 Nevermind86 wrote: Everyone agrees, though, that playing SC2 is a bit stressing, that is a big sign that the game isn't fun. Not as fun as BW/DOTA though, which is the point. Stress? What stress? That one that you experience when playing 1v1s in BW? Oh yeah, i remember that. | ||
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Ctone23
United States1839 Posts
10 year olds with ipads, f2p games, etc. In sc2, you start with nothing, and you have to build and manage your game, and then, you can lose in the blink of an eye. To me, it's easy to understand why the popularity is not that high. It is an extremely difficult game. I don't know the solution, but I definitely think the problem is broader than "BW was better, make sc2 like BW", BW is from a different age in terms of technology. I would like to see sc2 put more emphasis on arcade/team games to really promote a fun experience, rather than competitive ladder that is extremely stressful for the average gamer giving sc2 a try. The executives at blizzard seem to only change the game to accommodate for the top TOP tier professional players, by tweaking the meta, buffing/nerfing races based solely on high level tournament results. To me, they completely ignore the lower level player and only seem to care about balancing the top level play. I think this is a big issue and drives players away, what does a silver/gold league player care about siege time reduction or oracle acceleration? I think Blizzard needs to revamp the advertising strategy and get with the times in terms of making the game fun for everyone. I love SC2 and I really want it to become more popular, I truly believe the game promotes cognitive growth and I wish Blizzard the best in trying to figure it out. EDIT: I'm not saying that balancing the top level play isn't important, I just wish they would also focus on making the game more fun for the lower league players, be that arcade/team modes with different units, game types, etc. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On October 02 2013 23:36 Nevermind86 wrote: Everyone agrees, though, that playing SC2 is a bit stressing, that is a big sign that the game isn't fun. Not as fun as BW/DOTA though, which is the point. It's an 1v1, highskill, strategic game that you play in a competitive enviroment (ladder). Of course it stresses you. The only way to not stress you, would be if you did only play it for fun. Which you can do with various maps like monobattles or desert strike. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On October 02 2013 23:49 lolfail9001 wrote: I loved this paragraph of yours. Because you know, i am not fast enough to play the game and love it in the same time . See, i either play the game, or love it :D. BW is good game, but playing it? Pfft, my wrists worth more.Lol now I know for a fact you suck at it and only quit out of frustration. Quite the indolence, complacency, and baseless arrogance to boost. I bid you good luck with those qualities. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On October 03 2013 00:01 Xiphos wrote: Lol now I know for a fact you suck at it and only quit out of frustration. Quite the indolence, complacency, and baseless arrogance to boost. I bid you good luck with those qualities. So when someone quits sc2 its cause he had no fun. When someone quits BW its cause he sucks so hard and its his own fault. Interesting. | ||
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ETisME
12276 Posts
I showed a game of BW and a game of sc2 to my GF and she certainly finds SC2 a lot more entertaining to watch. She wasn't even able to tell the difference between the landscape and zerg units on creep for bw. I am pretty sure most people with no knowledge on starcraft would find SC2 more appealing to watch, if not just for the graphics. The game is fun. Problem isn't coming from the game. Just today we had great matches in GSTL and GSL. both extremely enjoyable especially hurricane game with his failed 4 gate into warp prism sentries drop. In fact, I am more inclined to believe that people are looking for flaws that doesn't exist. The reason is that people complained about Forcefields and warp in mechanics at the start of all these SC2 is dying talk. Now they have pretty much disappeared when we are seeing more interesting interaction with Forcefields and units repositioning to deal with forcefields. Warp gate harassment etc suddenly took away all the negativity of warp gate so boring and no drawback to get warp gate instead of gateway etc. Then they complained about ladder maps, also kinda disappeared as well. Then they started to look for other things to blame, from chat lobby, pathing, clumping, smart casting, unlimited unit selection, macro too easy to sound effect. It seems almost all of these people are forgetting they are using BW as a reference point and the only reason why BW got to where it is today is because the scene had less competitions and pro scene was established due to high number of players and fans. This allows the scene to last long enough to have all these cute little trick micro to somehow becomes a part of the game's depth. If we look back to the beginning of SC2 WoL, honestly the game skill has improved a tonnes more, with more strategies and better micro, unit composition and smarter building placement, smarter builds, multi tasking, creep spread etc Honestly how many of you guys have watched any games prior boxer era? That's not to say SC2 is not without its flaws, but too much blame is put upon the game and that is also why we see people want SC2 to become BW because that is the "best" rts they have ever seen/played. | ||
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NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
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ETisME
12276 Posts
On October 03 2013 00:21 NukeD wrote: ^all those things you mentioned suck today as they did back when WoL was released, if not more so. Its jus that people quit complaining aftera few years when it gets obvious its pointless. Especialy with how they did hots. I don't know about that, I see more people appreciating amazing forcefields and warp in counter attacks just read up the LR thread for today's hurricane game for example, or people liking rain's zealot runbys and late game warp prism harass etc when was the last one you heard anyone complaining forcefields on ramp etc | ||
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jellyjello
Korea (South)664 Posts
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