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This is a heated issue, but please keep the debate civil.
Personal insult is not 'discussion' and will be moderated. -Page 17 |
On August 16 2013 23:53 F.O.A.D. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 23:32 Plansix wrote:On August 16 2013 23:29 fleeze wrote:On August 16 2013 23:26 Plansix wrote:On August 16 2013 23:23 fleeze wrote:On August 16 2013 23:20 Plansix wrote:On August 16 2013 23:10 fleeze wrote:On August 16 2013 23:09 Plansix wrote:On August 16 2013 23:04 fleeze wrote:On August 16 2013 23:00 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
I think you need to look up what the word “subjective” means. nope, you need to know that emotions are unprofessional. you make excuses for TBs emotional posts, which are the most unprofessional you can be. whereas take made ONE post, where he APOLOGIZED and said he is ready to talk through the issue. i don't know how you can not see who is professional and who isn't here? it's pretty much obvious. Well you have your opinion and I have mine. I value their honesty and straight talk more than an apology. You clearly value the apology. We each have our own personal beliefs on which is more important. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjective• Subjectivity, a subject's personal perspective, feelings, beliefs, desires or discovery, as opposed to those made from an independent, objective, point of view LOL. maybe read what you wrote. you said which side is professional is subjective. you are wrong. No, I said measuring who is more professional is subjective and influenced by bias. That each person would make their own decision on who they believed acted more professional during the process and the process was not a math equation. still wrong. one side takes everything out to the public without apologizing at all. the other side doesn't and only apologizes publicly. professional means you stand above the issues and don't let emotion take care of you. also you seek for a solution with the other party privately and only tell the result to the public. so i think TB is as unprofessional as you can be here. You are entitled to your opinion of how professional they are. and you have no clue what being "professional" even means. You are entitled to that opinion as well. Really, you can believe what you want, but it doesn't make you right. Technically everything is subjective, we can only converge on objectivity, and there is a standard definition of professionalism. Your "that's your opinion" responses are laughably pathetic, you know you're wrong but you're too immature to concede.
I love how a user called "F.O.A.D" (who's been recently banned as well, if I'm not mistaken) berates a 30 something year-old as being "too immature" while also being a condescending prick and trying to enforce his opinion on others. I find this quite humorous tbh.
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The scene is dominated by adults trying to be kids, full of people with the Peter Pan syndrome.
Genna, you can't just leave your post at the first scandal. You have responsibilities.
And btw, posting private conversations is totally suable.
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On August 16 2013 23:57 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 23:53 F.O.A.D. wrote:On August 16 2013 23:32 Plansix wrote:On August 16 2013 23:29 fleeze wrote:On August 16 2013 23:26 Plansix wrote:On August 16 2013 23:23 fleeze wrote:On August 16 2013 23:20 Plansix wrote:On August 16 2013 23:10 fleeze wrote:On August 16 2013 23:09 Plansix wrote:On August 16 2013 23:04 fleeze wrote:
[quote]
nope, you need to know that emotions are unprofessional. you make excuses for TBs emotional posts, which are the most unprofessional you can be. whereas take made ONE post, where he APOLOGIZED and said he is ready to talk through the issue.
i don't know how you can not see who is professional and who isn't here? it's pretty much obvious. Well you have your opinion and I have mine. I value their honesty and straight talk more than an apology. You clearly value the apology. We each have our own personal beliefs on which is more important. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjective• Subjectivity, a subject's personal perspective, feelings, beliefs, desires or discovery, as opposed to those made from an independent, objective, point of view LOL. maybe read what you wrote. you said which side is professional is subjective. you are wrong. No, I said measuring who is more professional is subjective and influenced by bias. That each person would make their own decision on who they believed acted more professional during the process and the process was not a math equation. still wrong. one side takes everything out to the public without apologizing at all. the other side doesn't and only apologizes publicly. professional means you stand above the issues and don't let emotion take care of you. also you seek for a solution with the other party privately and only tell the result to the public. so i think TB is as unprofessional as you can be here. You are entitled to your opinion of how professional they are. and you have no clue what being "professional" even means. You are entitled to that opinion as well. Really, you can believe what you want, but it doesn't make you right. Technically everything is subjective, we can only converge on objectivity, and there is a standard definition of professionalism. Your "that's your opinion" responses are laughably pathetic, you know you're wrong but you're too immature to concede. I love how a user called "F.O.A.D" (who's been recently banned as well, if I'm not mistaken) berates a 30 something year-old as being "too immature" while also being a condescending prick and trying to enforce his opinion on others. I find this quite humorous tbh.
Being a 30 something year-old does not mean that he or she have attain the appropriate maturity level suitable for the age. Many teens or even child have more mature thoughts and behavior than their older counterparts. FOAD is simply calling it as he sees it.
"That's like, just your opinion man." is a last ditch effort to salvage w/e a dignity left there is for the losing side and is itself a very pathetic act of attempting to leave the argument arena by committing ad hominem.
On August 17 2013 00:07 Apoteosis wrote:
The scene is dominated by adults trying to be kids, full of people with the Peter Pan syndrome.
Genna, you can't just leave your post at the first scandal. You have responsibilities.
And btw, posting private conversations is totally suable.
This can't be any more appropriate.
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more esports drama !
wondering any website keeping these interesting stories
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On August 16 2013 23:42 Muffloe wrote:
I kinda do not see the point of jumping TB for being "unprofessional". He is definately one of the honest persons in the community, like Naniwa, and they deserve only praise in my opinion
Yes but this is only partially true. You see, it's like this:
If you claim to be a professional, you have to act the part. No matter how much you want to "speak your mind" you still have to be polite and politically correct. When huge companies like Microsoft and Sony are at "war" with each other, you don't see the CEO of MS writing things like "oh, and btw, FUCK YOU Sony" on twitter. If you write stupid kiddy stuff online as a so called professional, you have to act the part! That isn't the first time, that TB forgot, that he has to behave a certain way.
I'm not trying to bash on him. He has obviously done a lot, but some things are just not ok.
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On August 16 2013 23:57 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 23:53 F.O.A.D. wrote:On August 16 2013 23:32 Plansix wrote:On August 16 2013 23:29 fleeze wrote:On August 16 2013 23:26 Plansix wrote:On August 16 2013 23:23 fleeze wrote:On August 16 2013 23:20 Plansix wrote:On August 16 2013 23:10 fleeze wrote:On August 16 2013 23:09 Plansix wrote:On August 16 2013 23:04 fleeze wrote:
[quote]
nope, you need to know that emotions are unprofessional. you make excuses for TBs emotional posts, which are the most unprofessional you can be. whereas take made ONE post, where he APOLOGIZED and said he is ready to talk through the issue.
i don't know how you can not see who is professional and who isn't here? it's pretty much obvious. Well you have your opinion and I have mine. I value their honesty and straight talk more than an apology. You clearly value the apology. We each have our own personal beliefs on which is more important. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjective• Subjectivity, a subject's personal perspective, feelings, beliefs, desires or discovery, as opposed to those made from an independent, objective, point of view LOL. maybe read what you wrote. you said which side is professional is subjective. you are wrong. No, I said measuring who is more professional is subjective and influenced by bias. That each person would make their own decision on who they believed acted more professional during the process and the process was not a math equation. still wrong. one side takes everything out to the public without apologizing at all. the other side doesn't and only apologizes publicly. professional means you stand above the issues and don't let emotion take care of you. also you seek for a solution with the other party privately and only tell the result to the public. so i think TB is as unprofessional as you can be here. You are entitled to your opinion of how professional they are. and you have no clue what being "professional" even means. You are entitled to that opinion as well. Really, you can believe what you want, but it doesn't make you right. Technically everything is subjective, we can only converge on objectivity, and there is a standard definition of professionalism. Your "that's your opinion" responses are laughably pathetic, you know you're wrong but you're too immature to concede. I love how a user called "F.O.A.D" (who's been recently banned as well, if I'm not mistaken) berates a 30 something year-old as being "too immature" while also being a condescending prick and trying to enforce his opinion on others. I find this quite humorous tbh.
The whole thing is super amusing in context of my work day, since I am drafting a motion in which we are submitting another attorney’s emails to us as evidence of him negotiating in bad faith and withholding information. I would also feel bad about it, except I am holding the invoice for the thousands of dollars he cost my client. Although not exactly the same, releasing discussions and emails is pretty minor is my book when it comes to be a professional. If I am going to say things I don’t want repeated, I call people on the phone.
Business is mean and not everyone is going to like you in the end. Although I don’t always agree with TB, I respect that he is at least honest about that aspect of things and doesn’t try to hide it. It is refreshing in a scene that seems very focused on selling the idea that we are one big happy family of SC2 players all the time.
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Comparing the statements of Genna and Take tells the whole story. It was these 2 personalities having this dispute, and when you look at which one through a hissy fit and said "i quit!", it all makes sense. Wishing you the best, Take, I look forward to the competition. Good riddance, Genna.
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I liked Genna. She seemed to have things under control pretty well.
TotalBiscuit knows what he has to do, so I trust that he will keep Axiom going,
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On August 17 2013 00:17 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 23:57 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 16 2013 23:53 F.O.A.D. wrote:On August 16 2013 23:32 Plansix wrote:On August 16 2013 23:29 fleeze wrote:On August 16 2013 23:26 Plansix wrote:On August 16 2013 23:23 fleeze wrote:On August 16 2013 23:20 Plansix wrote:On August 16 2013 23:10 fleeze wrote:On August 16 2013 23:09 Plansix wrote:[quote] Well you have your opinion and I have mine. I value their honesty and straight talk more than an apology. You clearly value the apology. We each have our own personal beliefs on which is more important. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjective• Subjectivity, a subject's personal perspective, feelings, beliefs, desires or discovery, as opposed to those made from an independent, objective, point of view LOL. maybe read what you wrote. you said which side is professional is subjective. you are wrong. No, I said measuring who is more professional is subjective and influenced by bias. That each person would make their own decision on who they believed acted more professional during the process and the process was not a math equation. still wrong. one side takes everything out to the public without apologizing at all. the other side doesn't and only apologizes publicly. professional means you stand above the issues and don't let emotion take care of you. also you seek for a solution with the other party privately and only tell the result to the public. so i think TB is as unprofessional as you can be here. You are entitled to your opinion of how professional they are. and you have no clue what being "professional" even means. You are entitled to that opinion as well. Really, you can believe what you want, but it doesn't make you right. Technically everything is subjective, we can only converge on objectivity, and there is a standard definition of professionalism. Your "that's your opinion" responses are laughably pathetic, you know you're wrong but you're too immature to concede. I love how a user called "F.O.A.D" (who's been recently banned as well, if I'm not mistaken) berates a 30 something year-old as being "too immature" while also being a condescending prick and trying to enforce his opinion on others. I find this quite humorous tbh. The whole thing is super amusing in context of my work day, since I am drafting a motion in which we are submitting another attorney’s emails to us as evidence of him negotiating in bad faith and withholding information. I would also feel bad about it, except I am holding the invoice for the thousands of dollars he cost my client. Although not exactly the same, releasing discussions and emails is pretty minor is my book when it comes to be a professional. If I am going to say things I don’t want repeated, I call people on the phone. Business is mean and not everyone is going to like you in the end. Although I don’t always agree with TB, I respect that he is at least honest about that aspect of things and doesn’t try to hide it. It is refreshing in a scene that seems very focused on selling the idea that we are one big happy family of SC2 players all the time.
Who are you submitting those emails to? The public?
Are you doing this as a last resort, or as a first step?
There's a point at which such conversations may end up being public. Step 1 of discussions is not it.
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I'm still kind of trying to process what happened here, but I'm pretty staggered by everything.
I like TakeTV, I like Axiom, I like Genna, and I like TB (even though I disagree with the way he shoots his mouth off sometimes). It's really unfortunate that everyone's name is being dragged through the mud right now and it hurts everyone involved.
I'm shocked by the way Genna/TB are acting though. The only thing they're doing right now is torpedoing Axiom. Nobody is going to want to sponsor a team that releases private conversations, is managed by a guy who trashes event organizers on twitter, and appears to lack business acumen entirely. If they're hurting for money now it's only going to get harder as a result, and that's really sad because I think Axiom is a fun team and good for the scene. Their openness was refreshing, but in this case they've been way too open about the wrong things.
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On August 17 2013 00:20 Lonyo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 00:17 Plansix wrote:On August 16 2013 23:57 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 16 2013 23:53 F.O.A.D. wrote:On August 16 2013 23:32 Plansix wrote:On August 16 2013 23:29 fleeze wrote:On August 16 2013 23:26 Plansix wrote:On August 16 2013 23:23 fleeze wrote:On August 16 2013 23:20 Plansix wrote:On August 16 2013 23:10 fleeze wrote:
[quote]
LOL. maybe read what you wrote.
you said which side is professional is subjective. you are wrong. No, I said measuring who is more professional is subjective and influenced by bias. That each person would make their own decision on who they believed acted more professional during the process and the process was not a math equation. still wrong. one side takes everything out to the public without apologizing at all. the other side doesn't and only apologizes publicly. professional means you stand above the issues and don't let emotion take care of you. also you seek for a solution with the other party privately and only tell the result to the public. so i think TB is as unprofessional as you can be here. You are entitled to your opinion of how professional they are. and you have no clue what being "professional" even means. You are entitled to that opinion as well. Really, you can believe what you want, but it doesn't make you right. Technically everything is subjective, we can only converge on objectivity, and there is a standard definition of professionalism. Your "that's your opinion" responses are laughably pathetic, you know you're wrong but you're too immature to concede. I love how a user called "F.O.A.D" (who's been recently banned as well, if I'm not mistaken) berates a 30 something year-old as being "too immature" while also being a condescending prick and trying to enforce his opinion on others. I find this quite humorous tbh. The whole thing is super amusing in context of my work day, since I am drafting a motion in which we are submitting another attorney’s emails to us as evidence of him negotiating in bad faith and withholding information. I would also feel bad about it, except I am holding the invoice for the thousands of dollars he cost my client. Although not exactly the same, releasing discussions and emails is pretty minor is my book when it comes to be a professional. If I am going to say things I don’t want repeated, I call people on the phone. Business is mean and not everyone is going to like you in the end. Although I don’t always agree with TB, I respect that he is at least honest about that aspect of things and doesn’t try to hide it. It is refreshing in a scene that seems very focused on selling the idea that we are one big happy family of SC2 players all the time. Who are you submitting those emails to? The public? Are you doing this as a last resort, or as a first step? There's a point at which such conversations may end up being public. Step 1 of discussions is not it.
To the court, which makes it public. Its the fastest way to prove he has been acting in bad faith and counter his claims that we refused to communicate. It is not the only way, but it is fastest. It is also underhanded, but we don't really care. There has been some debate, but we want him to knock it off, so we are taking a shot at him in open court to prove a point. Its mean and some would call it unprofessional, but others would say that the other side earned it by withholding information. Everyone has their own opinion on the subject, even in my office. .
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Sometimes I wish that people would just shut up. Silence is a virtue more often than not in eSports; more drama is definitely what this scene needs.
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Japan2283 Posts
On August 17 2013 00:07 Apoteosis wrote:
The scene is dominated by adults trying to be kids, full of people with the Peter Pan syndrome.
Genna, you can't just leave your post at the first scandal. You have responsibilities.
And btw, posting private conversations is totally suable.
As much as it seems like a bit of a dick move by Take to get so angry over so little, I have to agree with you. Yep, she should of asked to post that conversation before she did, that much is obvious. Then, she could of said 'oops sorry didn't mean no offense just wanted to clear up the situation- its not like I edited anything,' but no instead she quits right away in the face of some hate. Everybody makes mistakes, the community and esports organisations will forgive you, it feels weak to just run away like that. I mean I don't even know what it accomplishes since she's with TB. Now she doesn't have to deal with the mess she created? Cmon.
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the sc2 community sure does love drama x_X
seems to be the most drama filled esport
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
I wonder how many people in this thread arguing about "unprofessionalism" actually have a real job (or better, own a business).
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On August 17 2013 00:33 lichter wrote:
I wonder how many people in this thread arguing about "unprofessionalism" actually have a real job (or better, own a business).
You don't need to own a business or have a real job to get in touch or get a feeling of professionalism. While I think your main point was that there is too much bullshit in these 3 threads I guess which I can agree to. (if that was your point)
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On August 17 2013 00:30 Steel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 00:07 Apoteosis wrote:
The scene is dominated by adults trying to be kids, full of people with the Peter Pan syndrome.
Genna, you can't just leave your post at the first scandal. You have responsibilities.
And btw, posting private conversations is totally suable. As much as it seems like a bit of a dick move by Take to get so angry over so little, I have to agree with you. Yep, she should of asked to post that conversation before she did, that much is obvious. Then, she could of said 'oops sorry didn't mean no offense just wanted to clear up the situation- its not like I edited anything,' but no instead she quits right away in the face of some hate. Everybody makes mistakes, the community and esports organisations will forgive you, it feels weak to just run away like that. I mean I don't even know what it accomplishes since she's with TB. Now she doesn't have to deal with the mess she created? Cmon.
You may want to listen to TBs message on the subject. She has a lot of other stuff going on, like depression, being a mother and helping TB run his normal youtube stuff. The team proved to be to much for her to handle on top of all of that. To quote him: “…At some point you need to take a step back and focus on taking care of yourself and making sure your doing what you need to stay healthy.”
That doesn’t have to do specifically with the Take TV stuff, but the team in general. It’s a harder job that most people think.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On August 17 2013 00:34 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 00:33 lichter wrote:
I wonder how many people in this thread arguing about "unprofessionalism" actually have a real job (or better, own a business). You don't need to own a business or have a real job to get in touch or get a feeling of professionalism. While I think your main point was that there is too much bullshit in these 3 threads I guess which I can agree to. (if that was your point)
It isn't necessary but it certainly helps to understand the situation. 'Professionalism' isn't as black and white as a lot of people make it seem. And, unfortunately, sometimes acting 'professional' isn't always the best thing to do. This situation is far more complicated than we can assume based on the handful of threads and posts provided.
But yeah basically so much BS and crap being flung around lately
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On August 17 2013 00:17 bodomReaper wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 23:42 Muffloe wrote:
I kinda do not see the point of jumping TB for being "unprofessional". He is definately one of the honest persons in the community, like Naniwa, and they deserve only praise in my opinion Yes but this is only partially true. You see, it's like this: If you claim to be a professional, you have to act the part. No matter how much you want to "speak your mind" you still have to be polite and politically correct. When huge companies like Microsoft and Sony are at "war" with each other, you don't see the CEO of MS writing things like "oh, and btw, FUCK YOU Sony" on twitter. If you write stupid kiddy stuff online as a so called professional, you have to act the part! That isn't the first time, that TB forgot, that he has to behave a certain way. I'm not trying to bash on him. He has obviously done a lot, but some things are just not ok.
It is unnecessary, although I am not the one to deny TB his right to speak his mind
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EPT
