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On October 16 2013 00:39 aintz wrote:
woah why u flaming tlo he did fine in his recent events.
the reason sc2 is on the decline is because the hype is mostly gone and the game is just plain too hard for most people and most ppl are simply watching and not playing.
sc2 is just way too hard and stressful to be enjoyed. unlike the alternatives like dota and lol.
nice how u make Sc2 way to hard and downplay Dota and LoL.
can't be possible that all 3 games are just as hard and stressful hm?.
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Make SC2 Multiplayer for free, Arcade maps and other stuff (Skins, animations) should be sold on an "Arcade map market place" or something. People who bought the full game will still have everything for free.
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On October 16 2013 00:43 rasers wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2013 00:39 aintz wrote:
woah why u flaming tlo he did fine in his recent events.
the reason sc2 is on the decline is because the hype is mostly gone and the game is just plain too hard for most people and most ppl are simply watching and not playing.
sc2 is just way too hard and stressful to be enjoyed. unlike the alternatives like dota and lol. nice how u make Sc2 way to hard and downplay Dota and LoL. can't be possible that all 3 games are just as hard and stressful hm?.
ive played alot of games at high levels (css in cal-m, wow 3v3 against many mlg teams, dota2 against pro players, sc2 in high masters)
sc2 is by far the hardest game and requires the most practise to get better because it is a much more complex game than your fps and moba. its a very good game if i have nothing to do and want to tryhard at something. not a very good game when i just want to chill.
have you played dota/lol/hon? those games are jokes compared to sc2 in terms of skill.
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On October 16 2013 01:22 Crackpot wrote:
Make SC2 Multiplayer for free, Arcade maps and other stuff (Skins, animations) should be sold on an "Arcade map market place" or something. People who bought the full game will still have everything for free.
No. This isn't a MOBA. This is a buy to play game and always will be. Starter edition is enough for people to try the game to see if they like it.
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On October 16 2013 01:23 aintz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2013 00:43 rasers wrote:On October 16 2013 00:39 aintz wrote:
woah why u flaming tlo he did fine in his recent events.
the reason sc2 is on the decline is because the hype is mostly gone and the game is just plain too hard for most people and most ppl are simply watching and not playing.
sc2 is just way too hard and stressful to be enjoyed. unlike the alternatives like dota and lol. nice how u make Sc2 way to hard and downplay Dota and LoL. can't be possible that all 3 games are just as hard and stressful hm?. ive played alot of games at high levels (css in cal-m, wow 3v3 against many mlg teams, dota2 against pro players, sc2 in high masters) sc2 is by far the hardest game and requires the most practise to get better because it is a much more complex game than your fps and moba. its a very good game if i have nothing to do and want to tryhard at something. not a very good game when i just want to chill. have you played dota/lol/hon? those games are jokes compared to sc2 in terms of skill.
ive played alot of games at high levels (css in cal-m, wow 3v3 against many mlg teams, dota2 against pro players, sc2 in high masters)
Mobas are by far the hardest game and requires the most practise to get better because they are much more complex game than your RTS. its a very good kind of game if i have nothing to do and want to tryhard at something. not a very good game when i just want to chill.
have you played SC2 this game is a joke compared to dota/lol/hon in terms of skill.
NICE i did it 2. now we both just talk out of our asses.
No one cares how freaking OMG pro u are. and saying "it's the hardest." also means nothing. no reason why and whatsoever.
to me it rather sounds that u don't have any idea of the depth of "mobas". but hey u played vs pros in pubs or some low shit tournaments. must mean somethign hm?.
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this thread is not about the hardest game or if mobas are better or worse...its about finding ideas to make sc2 grow.
My next suggestion is that people trying to reduce their elitism and start to contribute instead of bashing newbies.
I tried to read strategy forum on TL today after a long time...a lot of harsh answers...
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On October 16 2013 05:12 cutler wrote:
this thread is not about the hardest game or if mobas are better or worse...its about finding ideas to make sc2 grow.
My next suggestion is that people trying to reduce their elitism and start to contribute instead of bashing newbies.
I tried to read strategy forum on TL today after a long time...a lot of harsh answers...
I agree, butI actually think the community is going in the right direction as we are seeing a lot of maps that try many of the "suggested" improved gameplay stuff, and they can be really cool to play (even if it is just to try something new, see something different), so at least there are people trying to show that their ideas actually work!
Now we just need more people actually testing these maps and not just randomly saying stuff like "but this will be imbalanced, this will suck do this instead" without trying it themselves!
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On October 16 2013 02:55 Applesmack wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2013 01:22 Crackpot wrote:
Make SC2 Multiplayer for free, Arcade maps and other stuff (Skins, animations) should be sold on an "Arcade map market place" or something. People who bought the full game will still have everything for free.
No. This isn't a MOBA. This is a buy to play game and always will be. Starter edition is enough for people to try the game to see if they like it.
MOBA? Why a MOBA ? I said nothing about any MOBA ? There are plenty of other free2play - models out there, even the Battlefield franchise has a free2play game.
But that is interesting, as soon as people want to talk about change something in StarCraft 2, others compare it in general with MOBAs or particular with LoL. Why?
LoL is no game made for progaming imo, it is not balanced and has tons of imbalanced matchup possibilities, it is just fun or fun to watch. If you play a StarCraft 2 1o1 match you can count on that the guy who plays the better match/tactics/decisions will win. Of course some races are easier, but it depends on personality and playstyle. In MOBAs exist heroes who doesn't have any chance against specific other heroes and when you picked the wrong ones, your game is doomed from the beginning.
I still think my SC2 free2play model would work fine with any kind of gamers.
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Russian Federation262 Posts
1. Force to F2P model
2. Create as much achievements as you can
3. Upgrade Battle.net with something interesting, maybe a Live-chat on a main screen, which players could not quit
4. Fix "army dead in 1sec" problem
5. Create a good marketing platform, especially in Korea
6. Implement a Region Lock into WCS system
7. Support more "small" tournaments
8. Adopt the game for newjoiners: built-in build-orders which can be viewed ingame, guides, etc
9. Maybe create a small department in Blizzard, which will provide a Gaming Houses rent in Korea
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At first, I do not think it makes any sense if you tell what Blizzard has to or has not do. This is just my opinion, I don't want to discourage you from doing it.
To the comparisons with MOBAs: To me it is like comparing apples with pears, as if one says that tennis is better than badminton, and that badminton has to us a tennis racket to become more popular.
My proposal would be the following:
Even if Blizzard is doing what they want (I personally do not think so, but ok), it would be more helpful to propose something what we as a community can do.
Stop bragging about starcraft or blizzard! Be positive, tell everyone that you like the game, if you do so. If not, then go play something else. It could save you from a heart attack.
Go to offline events, take friends with you and cheer for players loudly! All in all, stop spreading a "baaaw the game is dying"-mood. Instead create a positive atmosphere 
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Russian Federation262 Posts
On October 17 2013 17:53 papalion wrote:At first, I do not think it makes any sense if you tell what Blizzard has to or has not do. This is just my opinion, I don't want to discourage you from doing it. To the comparisons with MOBAs: To me it is like comparing apples with pears, as if one says that tennis is better than badminton, and that badminton has to us a tennis racket to become more popular. My proposal would be the following: Even if Blizzard is doing what they want (I personally do not think so, but ok), it would be more helpful to propose something what we as a community can do. Stop bragging about starcraft or blizzard! Be positive, tell everyone that you like the game, if you do so. If not, then go play something else. It could save you from a heart attack. Go to offline events, take friends with you and cheer for players loudly! All in all, stop spreading a "baaaw the game is dying"-mood. Instead create a positive atmosphere
Agreed, please, follow this!
Also, i'd love to see something in Battle.net, which can help people to communicate better and force them to play more competive matches, standart custom games, maybe small automated built-in tournaments every week or twice a week (as i remember, something similar was in WC3)
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On October 17 2013 17:53 papalion wrote:At first, I do not think it makes any sense if you tell what Blizzard has to or has not do. This is just my opinion, I don't want to discourage you from doing it. To the comparisons with MOBAs: To me it is like comparing apples with pears, as if one says that tennis is better than badminton, and that badminton has to us a tennis racket to become more popular. My proposal would be the following: Even if Blizzard is doing what they want (I personally do not think so, but ok), it would be more helpful to propose something what we as a community can do. Stop bragging about starcraft or blizzard! Be positive, tell everyone that you like the game, if you do so. If not, then go play something else. It could save you from a heart attack. Go to offline events, take friends with you and cheer for players loudly! All in all, stop spreading a "baaaw the game is dying"-mood. Instead create a positive atmosphere
wrong.
your example of badminton and tennis is wrong because that is like asking RTS to be reworked to be more similar to MOBA.
If both games are supposed to be spectator interesting, then obviously you can learn from one and another.
Even badminton had to change their scoring rules to keep the match more entertaining:
http://www.livestrong.com/article/144589-the-new-badminton-rules/
was it because of tennis? possibly not.
did it learn from tennis? possibly not.
but one thing we know is that games can be improved upon and sometimes you CAN analysis and find out the ways and means to improve the game.
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Making custom maps function as a ladder would be a good feature. I mean separate ladder with separate MMR for each map or map pool.
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It is up to Blizzard, Starcraft 2 in the beginning has been marketed to death by hardcore Starcraft fans and sponsors (both from BW and War3). A decent game doesn't need excessive marketing if it stands good on its own (especially in today's information age). SC2 itself is a good game, but it being hyped as BW's successor is still an overstatement.
Battle.net 2.0 is an utter failure since it totally neglects the accessbility from Asian gamers, a no LAN, P2P system with expansion is beyond ridiculous for afterschool Asian kids who want to have fun in a PC cafe. Remember how the west got into the professional BW, or even Warcraft 3? Yes Korean leagues. Korea has always been the forerunner of RTS esports and Blizzard's first decision is to fuck it up with Bnet 2.0 and the Kespa issue.
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On October 16 2013 05:03 rasers wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2013 01:23 aintz wrote:On October 16 2013 00:43 rasers wrote:On October 16 2013 00:39 aintz wrote:
woah why u flaming tlo he did fine in his recent events.
the reason sc2 is on the decline is because the hype is mostly gone and the game is just plain too hard for most people and most ppl are simply watching and not playing.
sc2 is just way too hard and stressful to be enjoyed. unlike the alternatives like dota and lol. nice how u make Sc2 way to hard and downplay Dota and LoL. can't be possible that all 3 games are just as hard and stressful hm?. ive played alot of games at high levels (css in cal-m, wow 3v3 against many mlg teams, dota2 against pro players, sc2 in high masters) sc2 is by far the hardest game and requires the most practise to get better because it is a much more complex game than your fps and moba. its a very good game if i have nothing to do and want to tryhard at something. not a very good game when i just want to chill. have you played dota/lol/hon? those games are jokes compared to sc2 in terms of skill. ive played alot of games at high levels (css in cal-m, wow 3v3 against many mlg teams, dota2 against pro players, sc2 in high masters) Mobas are by far the hardest game and requires the most practise to get better because they are much more complex game than your RTS. its a very good kind of game if i have nothing to do and want to tryhard at something. not a very good game when i just want to chill. have you played SC2 this game is a joke compared to dota/lol/hon in terms of skill. NICE i did it 2. now we both just talk out of our asses. No one cares how freaking OMG pro u are. and saying "it's the hardest." also means nothing. no reason why and whatsoever. to me it rather sounds that u don't have any idea of the depth of "mobas". but hey u played vs pros in pubs or some low shit tournaments. must mean somethign hm?.
It's not about the difference between pros and casuals or even the games depth. Playing an RTS (not just SC2) is stressful and difficult. You're also completely on your own and any loss is 100% on you. Go onto any random gaming board and read threads on why people quit RTS but in particular games like SC2. They're just littered with people saying they quit because the game was too hard or stressful or whatever. A pretty common sentiment is that they go play MOBA's because it's less stressful. That doesn't necessarily mean that they are better or that they are closer to pro level but they feel less stressed and under less pressure (and they have someone to blame when they fuck up).
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Make it so PC bangs can purchase SC2 versions at a reasonably low price.
Make it so multiplayer becomes F2P either from the beginning, or after a couple of months.
Create more attractive opportunities to feature sponsors.
Don´t be afraid to significantly change the game, come LotV.
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On October 17 2013 15:42 wishr wrote:
1. Force to F2P model
2. Create as much achievements as you can
3. Upgrade Battle.net with something interesting, maybe a Live-chat on a main screen, which players could not quit
4. Fix "army dead in 1sec" problem
5. Create a good marketing platform, especially in Korea
6. Implement a Region Lock into WCS system
7. Support more "small" tournaments
8. Adopt the game for newjoiners: built-in build-orders which can be viewed ingame, guides, etc
9. Maybe create a small department in Blizzard, which will provide a Gaming Houses rent in Korea
cool
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Make the WoL campaign f2p.
Reward a lot of playing, like give HotS for free at 2000 ladderwins.
Lower the price of the game and the expaansions.
The community needs to not look down on lowet league players. Smurfing can be very discouraging for the smurfed!
Make battle.net a more social experience right from the start, and fix some interface problems.
Make it easier to organize smaller tournaments and clanwars ingame.
Direct access to streams and progames ingame.
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I like the skin/item trading system of dota2 and betting items- stream the game. Bliz implemented the exp and portriat thing and still they need to keep on doing it. better if it can be traded and farmed. I want to see more skins, even like a little zergling horn or just minor color detail, or even like an extra hydra arm or something. You cant just stop at tier ones and supplies.
It makes the longetivity of the game better.
Also the less pressure because I play with other people, maybe some better maps or balance is needed for 3v3 and 4v4. Just enough for the casuals to dive in, and if they want to be serious and play better then can go 1v1.
also free access to tournaments watch live using the Sc2 client. Watch your friend's game of what he is watching, a semi alt tab chat. that I must commend valve because it made dota compete with the moba dota 1 copies.
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On October 17 2013 17:53 papalion wrote:
To the comparisons with MOBAs: To me it is like comparing apples with pears, as if one says that tennis is better than badminton, and that badminton has to us a tennis racket to become more popular.
Aren't MOBA's are generally better to watch because they are team sports?
Starcraft is like golf, tennis, swimming, darts, gymnastics, snooker, chess, marathon
MOBA's are like basketball, futbol, rugby, baseball.
I'm not sure why the latter group of sports are more exciting to most people, but I think they are. And that's a disadvantage that Starcraft will always have and can really do nothing about (the closest solution now is the GSTL type format, which makes it like a track or swimming relay).
It really isn't about skill. I know that the 13 year old gymnast from china is probably as athletic and skilled as Lebron. I just can't relate though.
Also, I personally watch all of the first group of sports that are included in the Olympics when it comes around, but I really don't want to watch swimming year round...
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EPT
