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Why should they?
They actually delayed their own LCS so that there is no split in viewer numbers between LCS and TI3.
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On August 13 2013 14:26 theking1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 13:59 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 13 2013 13:49 theking1 wrote:On August 12 2013 22:24 Wombat_NI wrote:
Oh god, another 'SC2 is dying thread'.
Viewer numbers are important, but not the be-all and end-all when it comes to sponsor involvement and everything that drives a scene. I would wager for example, that the SC2 playerbase have more disposable income on average compared to the f2p LoL for example, and while the SC2 scene has fewer eyeballs, there is attractiveness to sponsors for the other reasons I outlined.
I mean, I run a Fbook page for the Northern Irish SC2 players, and in our (often pointless) quest for peripheral perfection we've put out quite a bit of cash into our beloved mechanical keyboards and the like, in a way that our MOBA-playing buddies just tend not to do. I mean that's only one anecdotal example, but illustrative of other stuff.
For example, football/soccer and golf both have huge corporate involvement, the former because of its omnipresent popularity, the latter because middle-aged men spend a shitload of money on golfing equipment.
i think you are exagerrating a bit.First of all viewership numbers are THE MOST IMPORTANT factor when judging the succes of a boradcasted esport. A lot of esport personalitties explained this very good:viewers are the product you sell to the advertisers for them to invest money.Not the other way around:no viewers->no advertisers->no money And the idea of sc2 people having and investing more money than other people is ridiculous and is a blatant lie.The lol forums are filled with people claiming to have spent anywhere form 100 to 500 dollars on lol skins alone.Not to mention the million dollar worth of compediums the dota2 people bought.There is no statistic showing sc2 people have more money than lol or dota2 people. And the comparison to golf is exagerrated as hell.A golf club can cost anywhere form 2k dollars to a couple of hundreds of thoudsands.But there other factors come into play such as golf being th esport of the high class managers/businessman hence they get sponsored by rolex and rolls royce who are after that market segment.The market segment of sc2 is the smae as the market segment of lol and dota2:kids and young adults.The only difference is the mobas actually know how to monetize this stuff while blizzard still asks for money for tournaments. Maybe if blizzard will understand that big tournaments actually promote its game and not the other way around we wouldnt be in this situation right now. It's not a blatant lie, but an analogous example that isn't directly applicable. From my personal experiences on TL/IRL and even the 'How do you earn a living' thread or whatever, it seems apparent that SC2 attracts a different clientele. I might be entirely wrong on this, and my experiences and viewings are atypical, but I'm not lying. Yeah they make money from skins, but they have to do that as a tradeoff for being F2p in the first place. I just feel the 'SC2 is dying' crowd too often cite viewing figures, without considering perhaps that there are variable RoIs on those particular eyeballs. tl is mostly a sc2 community.hence a lot of lol and dota2 fans do not access it since they have their main hubs like dota2.com, general discussion forum from riot etc.What you hear on tl is mostly sc2 hardcore fans.I can guarantee you as a guy who visits both tl and general discussion form lol and dota2,moba fans spend way more money than sc2 fans. Just a small example.A lol fan bought tickers worth about 1000 dollars to the european lcs only to find out it was derailed due to the international.She posted it on reddit and in a couple of hours she made back the money simply from fan donations. Sorry for saying you were lying.I know you ain't lying but lol and dota2 do have passionate fans willing to splash out big dollars.Not to mention the money dota2 people spend on compendiums and pennats for ti3. sc2 is not dying but it is falling behind way to much in both viewership and financial and tournament support compared to other esports.In this generation of esports it will probably do fine but blizzard needs to make something happen for the future to monetize and promote it better than this.They need to cut the bullshit with making tournaments pay to have sc2 and they need to give sc2 fans the chance to financially involve themselves more in the game itself.If they cna not adapt to this reality well it aint good neither for us fans nor for the players
I really enjoy how you base your generalization that moba fans spend more money on the game based on a single example, I feel like that would really hold up to vigorous analysis.
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The best thing to do is just see what happens to MLG, because I don't think it's the right move. We'll see what games replace it, and once we have more information we'll go from there.
To be honest if they now re-entered SC2 into MLG, the outpouring of support from the community of "show em what we've got!" would probably make it reach record viewers by a large margin.
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On August 14 2013 11:37 Pandain wrote:
The best thing to do is just see what happens to MLG, because I don't think it's the right move. We'll see what games replace it, and once we have more information we'll go from there.
To be honest if they now re-entered SC2 into MLG, the outpouring of support from the community of "show em what we've got!" would probably make it reach record viewers by a large margin.
i doubt it. the community isn't nearly what it used to be and the fact that viewership has to be split between two tournaments, it is a no brainer for MLG to drop sc2.
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Northern Ireland26492 Posts
Drop SC2 for Dota/Lol maybe on that basis, but does say, CoD really do that well in terms of viewership? It's not really a 'no brainer' in that sense imo, more a hand has been forced in some way by the post-WCS era
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On August 13 2013 15:25 FrozenHobo wrote:
I personally am surprised Riot did not force MLG to sign some type of agreement that Dota can't be played at MLG... Now Dota will have essentially open recruitment from another game that is the same on some levels. I mean if t hey are both shown at the same event (league and dota) I could see some league players leaving the LoL scene. Riot should just threaten to pull out of MLG. That would shake up some people at MLG.
they did that in the past because they were financing MLG (and other tournaments that signed the same deal), at least the prize pool was entirely riot's $ and I think they threw some more money as well to the organizers, obviously they couldnt be throwing money at people so they would organize a rival tournament, hence the exclusivity agreement.
Regarding the who spends more money discussion my 2 cents: lol/dota players spend TONS of money on skins, its ridiculous. Im not a big spender myself and I could already have bought HotS + other game with the money I spent on skins over the last 2 years. I have no idea what money people are spending on peripherals, although my IRL experience from when I was cs 1.6 player, shooter shelled the big bucks for them. However, there is no basis to tell which of RTS/FPS/DotA spends more and making a claim regarding that is ridiculous.
One thing I love in dota is the fact the community can make money out of the skins through the workshop, that is awesome.
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On August 14 2013 11:54 Wombat_NI wrote:
Drop SC2 for Dota/Lol maybe on that basis, but does say, CoD really do that well in terms of viewership? It's not really a 'no brainer' in that sense imo, more a hand has been forced in some way by the post-WCS era
Not even for Dota, and LoL was already there.
SC2 eclipses Dota 2 in viewers in any time that isn't TI3. Even with the pure Dota hype following probably the best-run E-sports even of all time, Starcraft 2 stays way ahead.
Someone else mentioned that paying for Koreans to come over as well as setting up is greatly expensive. I think that might be a key part.
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On August 14 2013 11:57 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 11:54 Wombat_NI wrote:
Drop SC2 for Dota/Lol maybe on that basis, but does say, CoD really do that well in terms of viewership? It's not really a 'no brainer' in that sense imo, more a hand has been forced in some way by the post-WCS era Not even for Dota, and LoL was already there. SC2 eclipses Dota 2 in viewers in any time that isn't TI3. Even with the pure Dota hype following probably the best-run E-sports even of all time, Starcraft 2 stays way ahead. Someone else mentioned that paying for Koreans to come over as well as setting up is greatly expensive. I think that might be a key part.
who forces them to pay for koreans?do not bring koreans and let people form na and europe duke it out.The na scene flourishes and the viewership goes up and everybody profits.I really do not understand who forces them to bring koreans.
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On August 14 2013 11:57 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 11:54 Wombat_NI wrote:
Drop SC2 for Dota/Lol maybe on that basis, but does say, CoD really do that well in terms of viewership? It's not really a 'no brainer' in that sense imo, more a hand has been forced in some way by the post-WCS era Not even for Dota, and LoL was already there. SC2 eclipses Dota 2 in viewers in any time that isn't TI3. Even with the pure Dota hype following probably the best-run E-sports even of all time, Starcraft 2 stays way ahead. Someone else mentioned that paying for Koreans to come over as well as setting up is greatly expensive. I think that might be a key part.
Dota 2 has double the view numbers on Twitch than SC2 atm and TI3 finished 2 days ago...
Edit: There aren't even any tournaments or big name streamers online ATM either.
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On August 14 2013 12:18 theking1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 11:57 Pandain wrote:On August 14 2013 11:54 Wombat_NI wrote:
Drop SC2 for Dota/Lol maybe on that basis, but does say, CoD really do that well in terms of viewership? It's not really a 'no brainer' in that sense imo, more a hand has been forced in some way by the post-WCS era Not even for Dota, and LoL was already there. SC2 eclipses Dota 2 in viewers in any time that isn't TI3. Even with the pure Dota hype following probably the best-run E-sports even of all time, Starcraft 2 stays way ahead. Someone else mentioned that paying for Koreans to come over as well as setting up is greatly expensive. I think that might be a key part. who forces them to pay for koreans?>do not bring koreans and let people form na and europe duke it w=out.The na scene flourishes and the viewership goes up and everybody profits.I really do not understand who forces them to bring koreans.
You need Koreans to attract a large audience, and Europeons traditionally don't intend MLG.
Of course they could try to attract them instead, as we saw WCS EU be a fucking huge success without Koreans, but MLG isn't taking that approach.
On August 14 2013 12:20 Ryder. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 11:57 Pandain wrote:On August 14 2013 11:54 Wombat_NI wrote:
Drop SC2 for Dota/Lol maybe on that basis, but does say, CoD really do that well in terms of viewership? It's not really a 'no brainer' in that sense imo, more a hand has been forced in some way by the post-WCS era Not even for Dota, and LoL was already there. SC2 eclipses Dota 2 in viewers in any time that isn't TI3. Even with the pure Dota hype following probably the best-run E-sports even of all time, Starcraft 2 stays way ahead. Someone else mentioned that paying for Koreans to come over as well as setting up is greatly expensive. I think that might be a key part. Dota 2 has double the view numbers on Twitch than SC2 atm and TI3 finished 2 days ago... Edit: There aren't even any tournaments or big name streamers online ATM either.
I exaggerate in that Starcraft II stays ahead for probably the vast vast majority. During the day when most NA/Europeon pros stream, SC2 is huge.
And counting daily tournaments on both sides Starcraft II attracts tens of thousands more.
I guess making that post at midnight EST probably wasn't the best to drive home the point I was making, my bad.
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On August 14 2013 12:21 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 12:18 theking1 wrote:On August 14 2013 11:57 Pandain wrote:On August 14 2013 11:54 Wombat_NI wrote:
Drop SC2 for Dota/Lol maybe on that basis, but does say, CoD really do that well in terms of viewership? It's not really a 'no brainer' in that sense imo, more a hand has been forced in some way by the post-WCS era Not even for Dota, and LoL was already there. SC2 eclipses Dota 2 in viewers in any time that isn't TI3. Even with the pure Dota hype following probably the best-run E-sports even of all time, Starcraft 2 stays way ahead. Someone else mentioned that paying for Koreans to come over as well as setting up is greatly expensive. I think that might be a key part. who forces them to pay for koreans?>do not bring koreans and let people form na and europe duke it w=out.The na scene flourishes and the viewership goes up and everybody profits.I really do not understand who forces them to bring koreans. You need Koreans to attract a large audience, and Europeons traditionally don't intend MLG. Of course they could try to attract them instead, as we saw WCS EU be a fucking huge success without Koreans, but MLG isn't taking that approach.
the largest audience is when 2 well known foreigners are present or when it is foreigner vs korean.na teams have plenty of koreans on their rooster to send to mlg.And I think europeans hold more mlgs than na players.Nobody forces mlg to bring lesser known kespa players to eliminate the foreigners.Literally nobody asked for this.and if mlg isnt taking taking that aproach why are they complaining about numbers?lol
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On August 14 2013 12:29 theking1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 12:21 Pandain wrote:On August 14 2013 12:18 theking1 wrote:On August 14 2013 11:57 Pandain wrote:On August 14 2013 11:54 Wombat_NI wrote:
Drop SC2 for Dota/Lol maybe on that basis, but does say, CoD really do that well in terms of viewership? It's not really a 'no brainer' in that sense imo, more a hand has been forced in some way by the post-WCS era Not even for Dota, and LoL was already there. SC2 eclipses Dota 2 in viewers in any time that isn't TI3. Even with the pure Dota hype following probably the best-run E-sports even of all time, Starcraft 2 stays way ahead. Someone else mentioned that paying for Koreans to come over as well as setting up is greatly expensive. I think that might be a key part. who forces them to pay for koreans?>do not bring koreans and let people form na and europe duke it w=out.The na scene flourishes and the viewership goes up and everybody profits.I really do not understand who forces them to bring koreans. You need Koreans to attract a large audience, and Europeons traditionally don't intend MLG. Of course they could try to attract them instead, as we saw WCS EU be a fucking huge success without Koreans, but MLG isn't taking that approach. the largest audience is when 2 well known foreigners are present or when it is foreigner vs korean.na teams have plenty of koreans on their rooster to send to mlg.And I think europeans hold more mlgs than na players.Nobody forces mlg to bring lesser known kespa players to eliminate the foreigners.Literally nobody asked for this.and if mlg isnt taking taking that aproach why are they complaining about numbers?lol
You must be new to the scene.
Back in the old days, MLG was just na players, starring the infrequent EU player.
Then hit MLG Columbus and we brought forth the top of the top Koreans and SC2 esports was born. Probably one of the biggest successes of all MLG's(although Anaheim this year and last are comparable, as well as the last MLG Dallas.)
Yeah we love top foreigners playing each other, but in the end it's about seeing the highest level play we can, which is spurred on by Koreans.
I don't know how much they still sponsor Koreans coming over, or if it is all team-based now, but they did.
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On August 14 2013 12:47 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 12:29 theking1 wrote:On August 14 2013 12:21 Pandain wrote:On August 14 2013 12:18 theking1 wrote:On August 14 2013 11:57 Pandain wrote:On August 14 2013 11:54 Wombat_NI wrote:
Drop SC2 for Dota/Lol maybe on that basis, but does say, CoD really do that well in terms of viewership? It's not really a 'no brainer' in that sense imo, more a hand has been forced in some way by the post-WCS era Not even for Dota, and LoL was already there. SC2 eclipses Dota 2 in viewers in any time that isn't TI3. Even with the pure Dota hype following probably the best-run E-sports even of all time, Starcraft 2 stays way ahead. Someone else mentioned that paying for Koreans to come over as well as setting up is greatly expensive. I think that might be a key part. who forces them to pay for koreans?>do not bring koreans and let people form na and europe duke it w=out.The na scene flourishes and the viewership goes up and everybody profits.I really do not understand who forces them to bring koreans. You need Koreans to attract a large audience, and Europeons traditionally don't intend MLG. Of course they could try to attract them instead, as we saw WCS EU be a fucking huge success without Koreans, but MLG isn't taking that approach. the largest audience is when 2 well known foreigners are present or when it is foreigner vs korean.na teams have plenty of koreans on their rooster to send to mlg.And I think europeans hold more mlgs than na players.Nobody forces mlg to bring lesser known kespa players to eliminate the foreigners.Literally nobody asked for this.and if mlg isnt taking taking that aproach why are they complaining about numbers?lol You must be new to the scene. Back in the old days, MLG was just na players, starring the infrequent EU player. Then hit MLG Columbus and we brought forth the top of the top Koreans and SC2 esports was born. Probably one of the biggest successes of all MLG's(although Anaheim this year and last are comparable, as well as the last MLG Dallas.) Yeah we love top foreigners playing each other, but in the end it's about seeing the highest level play we can, which is spurred on by Koreans. I don't know how much they still sponsor Koreans coming over, or if it is all team-based now, but they did.
Ah remember the days when it was just Huk, Idra, Select, Drewbie Naniwa and all the others fighting and we didn't give a shit. Those days were pretty good and fun.
MLG will carry SC2 again, just not this time due to the Redbull thing. But next time around for sure as long as there isn't a major event.
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On August 14 2013 12:49 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 12:47 Pandain wrote:On August 14 2013 12:29 theking1 wrote:On August 14 2013 12:21 Pandain wrote:On August 14 2013 12:18 theking1 wrote:On August 14 2013 11:57 Pandain wrote:On August 14 2013 11:54 Wombat_NI wrote:
Drop SC2 for Dota/Lol maybe on that basis, but does say, CoD really do that well in terms of viewership? It's not really a 'no brainer' in that sense imo, more a hand has been forced in some way by the post-WCS era Not even for Dota, and LoL was already there. SC2 eclipses Dota 2 in viewers in any time that isn't TI3. Even with the pure Dota hype following probably the best-run E-sports even of all time, Starcraft 2 stays way ahead. Someone else mentioned that paying for Koreans to come over as well as setting up is greatly expensive. I think that might be a key part. who forces them to pay for koreans?>do not bring koreans and let people form na and europe duke it w=out.The na scene flourishes and the viewership goes up and everybody profits.I really do not understand who forces them to bring koreans. You need Koreans to attract a large audience, and Europeons traditionally don't intend MLG. Of course they could try to attract them instead, as we saw WCS EU be a fucking huge success without Koreans, but MLG isn't taking that approach. the largest audience is when 2 well known foreigners are present or when it is foreigner vs korean.na teams have plenty of koreans on their rooster to send to mlg.And I think europeans hold more mlgs than na players.Nobody forces mlg to bring lesser known kespa players to eliminate the foreigners.Literally nobody asked for this.and if mlg isnt taking taking that aproach why are they complaining about numbers?lol You must be new to the scene. Back in the old days, MLG was just na players, starring the infrequent EU player. Then hit MLG Columbus and we brought forth the top of the top Koreans and SC2 esports was born. Probably one of the biggest successes of all MLG's(although Anaheim this year and last are comparable, as well as the last MLG Dallas.) Yeah we love top foreigners playing each other, but in the end it's about seeing the highest level play we can, which is spurred on by Koreans. I don't know how much they still sponsor Koreans coming over, or if it is all team-based now, but they did. Ah remember the days when it was just Huk, Idra, Select, Drewbie Naniwa and all the others fighting and we didn't give a shit. Those days were pretty good and fun. MLG will carry SC2 again, just not this time due to the Redbull thing. But next time around for sure as long as there isn't a major event.
I was looking at the MLG Dallas line-up, and can't believed I watched it hahaha.*
Take a look: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Dallas
*+ Show Spoiler +
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On August 14 2013 12:53 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 12:49 Plansix wrote:On August 14 2013 12:47 Pandain wrote:On August 14 2013 12:29 theking1 wrote:On August 14 2013 12:21 Pandain wrote:On August 14 2013 12:18 theking1 wrote:On August 14 2013 11:57 Pandain wrote:On August 14 2013 11:54 Wombat_NI wrote:
Drop SC2 for Dota/Lol maybe on that basis, but does say, CoD really do that well in terms of viewership? It's not really a 'no brainer' in that sense imo, more a hand has been forced in some way by the post-WCS era Not even for Dota, and LoL was already there. SC2 eclipses Dota 2 in viewers in any time that isn't TI3. Even with the pure Dota hype following probably the best-run E-sports even of all time, Starcraft 2 stays way ahead. Someone else mentioned that paying for Koreans to come over as well as setting up is greatly expensive. I think that might be a key part. who forces them to pay for koreans?>do not bring koreans and let people form na and europe duke it w=out.The na scene flourishes and the viewership goes up and everybody profits.I really do not understand who forces them to bring koreans. You need Koreans to attract a large audience, and Europeons traditionally don't intend MLG. Of course they could try to attract them instead, as we saw WCS EU be a fucking huge success without Koreans, but MLG isn't taking that approach. the largest audience is when 2 well known foreigners are present or when it is foreigner vs korean.na teams have plenty of koreans on their rooster to send to mlg.And I think europeans hold more mlgs than na players.Nobody forces mlg to bring lesser known kespa players to eliminate the foreigners.Literally nobody asked for this.and if mlg isnt taking taking that aproach why are they complaining about numbers?lol You must be new to the scene. Back in the old days, MLG was just na players, starring the infrequent EU player. Then hit MLG Columbus and we brought forth the top of the top Koreans and SC2 esports was born. Probably one of the biggest successes of all MLG's(although Anaheim this year and last are comparable, as well as the last MLG Dallas.) Yeah we love top foreigners playing each other, but in the end it's about seeing the highest level play we can, which is spurred on by Koreans. I don't know how much they still sponsor Koreans coming over, or if it is all team-based now, but they did. Ah remember the days when it was just Huk, Idra, Select, Drewbie Naniwa and all the others fighting and we didn't give a shit. Those days were pretty good and fun. MLG will carry SC2 again, just not this time due to the Redbull thing. But next time around for sure as long as there isn't a major event. I was looking at the MLG Dallas line-up, and can't believed I watched it hahaha.* Take a look: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Dallas* + Show Spoiler +
Dude, that event was so fun, eagles and all(which was not MLG's fault, if I remember, I think the venue just had shitty internet). Ah the good old days when it was just a good time and people just played, didn't give a shit and were happy to find out who the king of NA was.
Oh well, things can stay simple forever.
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On August 14 2013 12:47 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 12:29 theking1 wrote:On August 14 2013 12:21 Pandain wrote:On August 14 2013 12:18 theking1 wrote:On August 14 2013 11:57 Pandain wrote:On August 14 2013 11:54 Wombat_NI wrote:
Drop SC2 for Dota/Lol maybe on that basis, but does say, CoD really do that well in terms of viewership? It's not really a 'no brainer' in that sense imo, more a hand has been forced in some way by the post-WCS era Not even for Dota, and LoL was already there. SC2 eclipses Dota 2 in viewers in any time that isn't TI3. Even with the pure Dota hype following probably the best-run E-sports even of all time, Starcraft 2 stays way ahead. Someone else mentioned that paying for Koreans to come over as well as setting up is greatly expensive. I think that might be a key part. who forces them to pay for koreans?>do not bring koreans and let people form na and europe duke it w=out.The na scene flourishes and the viewership goes up and everybody profits.I really do not understand who forces them to bring koreans. You need Koreans to attract a large audience, and Europeons traditionally don't intend MLG. Of course they could try to attract them instead, as we saw WCS EU be a fucking huge success without Koreans, but MLG isn't taking that approach. the largest audience is when 2 well known foreigners are present or when it is foreigner vs korean.na teams have plenty of koreans on their rooster to send to mlg.And I think europeans hold more mlgs than na players.Nobody forces mlg to bring lesser known kespa players to eliminate the foreigners.Literally nobody asked for this.and if mlg isnt taking taking that aproach why are they complaining about numbers?lol You must be new to the scene. Back in the old days, MLG was just na players, starring the infrequent EU player. Then hit MLG Columbus and we brought forth the top of the top Koreans and SC2 esports was born. Probably one of the biggest successes of all MLG's(although Anaheim this year and last are comparable, as well as the last MLG Dallas.) Yeah we love top foreigners playing each other, but in the end it's about seeing the highest level play we can, which is spurred on by Koreans. I don't know how much they still sponsor Koreans coming over, or if it is all team-based now, but they did.
The era of succesful korean viewership at mlg was when big gsl names like mvp,mma,nestea,drg,marineking were playing and were actually attracting viewership.Those koreans everyone wanted to see becuase they were the best.Nowadays ,mlg is won by koreans who can not make it into korea.If mlg wants viewership back ist should have a rule that only the top 4 placed at gsl/osl are allowed at mlg(if those players actually want to come)
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On August 14 2013 12:47 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 12:29 theking1 wrote:On August 14 2013 12:21 Pandain wrote:On August 14 2013 12:18 theking1 wrote:On August 14 2013 11:57 Pandain wrote:On August 14 2013 11:54 Wombat_NI wrote:
Drop SC2 for Dota/Lol maybe on that basis, but does say, CoD really do that well in terms of viewership? It's not really a 'no brainer' in that sense imo, more a hand has been forced in some way by the post-WCS era Not even for Dota, and LoL was already there. SC2 eclipses Dota 2 in viewers in any time that isn't TI3. Even with the pure Dota hype following probably the best-run E-sports even of all time, Starcraft 2 stays way ahead. Someone else mentioned that paying for Koreans to come over as well as setting up is greatly expensive. I think that might be a key part. who forces them to pay for koreans?>do not bring koreans and let people form na and europe duke it w=out.The na scene flourishes and the viewership goes up and everybody profits.I really do not understand who forces them to bring koreans. You need Koreans to attract a large audience, and Europeons traditionally don't intend MLG. Of course they could try to attract them instead, as we saw WCS EU be a fucking huge success without Koreans, but MLG isn't taking that approach. the largest audience is when 2 well known foreigners are present or when it is foreigner vs korean.na teams have plenty of koreans on their rooster to send to mlg.And I think europeans hold more mlgs than na players.Nobody forces mlg to bring lesser known kespa players to eliminate the foreigners.Literally nobody asked for this.and if mlg isnt taking taking that aproach why are they complaining about numbers?lol You must be new to the scene. Back in the old days, MLG was just na players, starring the infrequent EU player. Then hit MLG Columbus and we brought forth the top of the top Koreans and SC2 esports was born. Probably one of the biggest successes of all MLG's(although Anaheim this year and last are comparable, as well as the last MLG Dallas.) Yeah we love top foreigners playing each other, but in the end it's about seeing the highest level play we can, which is spurred on by Koreans. I don't know how much they still sponsor Koreans coming over, or if it is all team-based now, but they did.
There were a lot of factors to Columbus' success. Yeah, Koreans were a huge factor, but remember the "Korean vs Foreigner" selling point was entirely unique for that one tournament. Sure, there were plenty of Korean vs Foreigner matches before, but at a weekend LAN in North America? That was unheard of.
Not to mention IdrA's deep run, and his infamous matches against MC and MMA, amplified the effect.
Plus SC2, as a whole, was still growing at that point.
I honestly don't think an MLG that didn't pay for Korean plane-tickets would be nearly as bad as people propose. Sure, watching the best competition is always good, but there are plenty of venues for that, and I think being the only Open Bracket LAN now would add a lot of appeal.
That said, opinions don't really matter, MLG is the one making the call, and frankly we don't know any of the reasons behind this. Hell, we don't even know if SC2 is out completely or just at this one tournament.
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On August 14 2013 13:12 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 12:47 Pandain wrote:On August 14 2013 12:29 theking1 wrote:On August 14 2013 12:21 Pandain wrote:On August 14 2013 12:18 theking1 wrote:On August 14 2013 11:57 Pandain wrote:On August 14 2013 11:54 Wombat_NI wrote:
Drop SC2 for Dota/Lol maybe on that basis, but does say, CoD really do that well in terms of viewership? It's not really a 'no brainer' in that sense imo, more a hand has been forced in some way by the post-WCS era Not even for Dota, and LoL was already there. SC2 eclipses Dota 2 in viewers in any time that isn't TI3. Even with the pure Dota hype following probably the best-run E-sports even of all time, Starcraft 2 stays way ahead. Someone else mentioned that paying for Koreans to come over as well as setting up is greatly expensive. I think that might be a key part. who forces them to pay for koreans?>do not bring koreans and let people form na and europe duke it w=out.The na scene flourishes and the viewership goes up and everybody profits.I really do not understand who forces them to bring koreans. You need Koreans to attract a large audience, and Europeons traditionally don't intend MLG. Of course they could try to attract them instead, as we saw WCS EU be a fucking huge success without Koreans, but MLG isn't taking that approach. the largest audience is when 2 well known foreigners are present or when it is foreigner vs korean.na teams have plenty of koreans on their rooster to send to mlg.And I think europeans hold more mlgs than na players.Nobody forces mlg to bring lesser known kespa players to eliminate the foreigners.Literally nobody asked for this.and if mlg isnt taking taking that aproach why are they complaining about numbers?lol You must be new to the scene. Back in the old days, MLG was just na players, starring the infrequent EU player. Then hit MLG Columbus and we brought forth the top of the top Koreans and SC2 esports was born. Probably one of the biggest successes of all MLG's(although Anaheim this year and last are comparable, as well as the last MLG Dallas.) Yeah we love top foreigners playing each other, but in the end it's about seeing the highest level play we can, which is spurred on by Koreans. I don't know how much they still sponsor Koreans coming over, or if it is all team-based now, but they did. There were a lot of factors to Columbus' success. Yeah, Koreans were a huge factor, but remember the "Korean vs Foreigner" selling point was entirely unique for that one tournament. Sure, there were plenty of Korean vs Foreigner matches before, but at a weekend LAN in North America? That was unheard of. Not to mention IdrA's deep run, and his infamous matches against MC and MMA, amplified the effect. Plus SC2, as a whole, was still growing at that point. I honestly don't think an MLG that didn't pay for Korean plane-tickets would be nearly as bad as people propose. Sure, watching the best competition is always good, but there are plenty of venues for that, and I think being the only Open Bracket LAN now would add a lot of appeal. That said, opinions don't really matter, MLG is the one making the call, and frankly we don't know any of the reasons behind this. Hell, we don't even know if SC2 is out completely or just at this one tournament.
Its not completely out according to MLGAdam who said they just backed off for this event due to the Redbull event. No reason to compete for viewers and players in the same area.
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On August 14 2013 13:24 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 13:12 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 14 2013 12:47 Pandain wrote:On August 14 2013 12:29 theking1 wrote:On August 14 2013 12:21 Pandain wrote:On August 14 2013 12:18 theking1 wrote:On August 14 2013 11:57 Pandain wrote:On August 14 2013 11:54 Wombat_NI wrote:
Drop SC2 for Dota/Lol maybe on that basis, but does say, CoD really do that well in terms of viewership? It's not really a 'no brainer' in that sense imo, more a hand has been forced in some way by the post-WCS era Not even for Dota, and LoL was already there. SC2 eclipses Dota 2 in viewers in any time that isn't TI3. Even with the pure Dota hype following probably the best-run E-sports even of all time, Starcraft 2 stays way ahead. Someone else mentioned that paying for Koreans to come over as well as setting up is greatly expensive. I think that might be a key part. who forces them to pay for koreans?>do not bring koreans and let people form na and europe duke it w=out.The na scene flourishes and the viewership goes up and everybody profits.I really do not understand who forces them to bring koreans. You need Koreans to attract a large audience, and Europeons traditionally don't intend MLG. Of course they could try to attract them instead, as we saw WCS EU be a fucking huge success without Koreans, but MLG isn't taking that approach. the largest audience is when 2 well known foreigners are present or when it is foreigner vs korean.na teams have plenty of koreans on their rooster to send to mlg.And I think europeans hold more mlgs than na players.Nobody forces mlg to bring lesser known kespa players to eliminate the foreigners.Literally nobody asked for this.and if mlg isnt taking taking that aproach why are they complaining about numbers?lol You must be new to the scene. Back in the old days, MLG was just na players, starring the infrequent EU player. Then hit MLG Columbus and we brought forth the top of the top Koreans and SC2 esports was born. Probably one of the biggest successes of all MLG's(although Anaheim this year and last are comparable, as well as the last MLG Dallas.) Yeah we love top foreigners playing each other, but in the end it's about seeing the highest level play we can, which is spurred on by Koreans. I don't know how much they still sponsor Koreans coming over, or if it is all team-based now, but they did. There were a lot of factors to Columbus' success. Yeah, Koreans were a huge factor, but remember the "Korean vs Foreigner" selling point was entirely unique for that one tournament. Sure, there were plenty of Korean vs Foreigner matches before, but at a weekend LAN in North America? That was unheard of. Not to mention IdrA's deep run, and his infamous matches against MC and MMA, amplified the effect. Plus SC2, as a whole, was still growing at that point. I honestly don't think an MLG that didn't pay for Korean plane-tickets would be nearly as bad as people propose. Sure, watching the best competition is always good, but there are plenty of venues for that, and I think being the only Open Bracket LAN now would add a lot of appeal. That said, opinions don't really matter, MLG is the one making the call, and frankly we don't know any of the reasons behind this. Hell, we don't even know if SC2 is out completely or just at this one tournament. Its not completely out according to MLGAdam who said they just backed off for this event due to the Redbull event. No reason to compete for viewers and players in the same area.
also sundance confirmed on reddit they are going to have a dota2 lan at mlg.probably we are going to see dota2 at mlg instead of sc2 
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On August 14 2013 13:26 theking1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 13:24 Plansix wrote:On August 14 2013 13:12 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 14 2013 12:47 Pandain wrote:On August 14 2013 12:29 theking1 wrote:On August 14 2013 12:21 Pandain wrote:On August 14 2013 12:18 theking1 wrote:On August 14 2013 11:57 Pandain wrote:On August 14 2013 11:54 Wombat_NI wrote:
Drop SC2 for Dota/Lol maybe on that basis, but does say, CoD really do that well in terms of viewership? It's not really a 'no brainer' in that sense imo, more a hand has been forced in some way by the post-WCS era Not even for Dota, and LoL was already there. SC2 eclipses Dota 2 in viewers in any time that isn't TI3. Even with the pure Dota hype following probably the best-run E-sports even of all time, Starcraft 2 stays way ahead. Someone else mentioned that paying for Koreans to come over as well as setting up is greatly expensive. I think that might be a key part. who forces them to pay for koreans?>do not bring koreans and let people form na and europe duke it w=out.The na scene flourishes and the viewership goes up and everybody profits.I really do not understand who forces them to bring koreans. You need Koreans to attract a large audience, and Europeons traditionally don't intend MLG. Of course they could try to attract them instead, as we saw WCS EU be a fucking huge success without Koreans, but MLG isn't taking that approach. the largest audience is when 2 well known foreigners are present or when it is foreigner vs korean.na teams have plenty of koreans on their rooster to send to mlg.And I think europeans hold more mlgs than na players.Nobody forces mlg to bring lesser known kespa players to eliminate the foreigners.Literally nobody asked for this.and if mlg isnt taking taking that aproach why are they complaining about numbers?lol You must be new to the scene. Back in the old days, MLG was just na players, starring the infrequent EU player. Then hit MLG Columbus and we brought forth the top of the top Koreans and SC2 esports was born. Probably one of the biggest successes of all MLG's(although Anaheim this year and last are comparable, as well as the last MLG Dallas.) Yeah we love top foreigners playing each other, but in the end it's about seeing the highest level play we can, which is spurred on by Koreans. I don't know how much they still sponsor Koreans coming over, or if it is all team-based now, but they did. There were a lot of factors to Columbus' success. Yeah, Koreans were a huge factor, but remember the "Korean vs Foreigner" selling point was entirely unique for that one tournament. Sure, there were plenty of Korean vs Foreigner matches before, but at a weekend LAN in North America? That was unheard of. Not to mention IdrA's deep run, and his infamous matches against MC and MMA, amplified the effect. Plus SC2, as a whole, was still growing at that point. I honestly don't think an MLG that didn't pay for Korean plane-tickets would be nearly as bad as people propose. Sure, watching the best competition is always good, but there are plenty of venues for that, and I think being the only Open Bracket LAN now would add a lot of appeal. That said, opinions don't really matter, MLG is the one making the call, and frankly we don't know any of the reasons behind this. Hell, we don't even know if SC2 is out completely or just at this one tournament. Its not completely out according to MLGAdam who said they just backed off for this event due to the Redbull event. No reason to compete for viewers and players in the same area. also sundance confirmed on reddit they are going to have a dota2 lan at mlg.probably we are going to see dota2 at mlg instead of sc2
Why is that bad? SC2 is going to be happening at Redbull. Its good that MLG is running another game, it means they are going to do well that weekend. NA dota 2 is pretty fun, if slightly dumb.
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EPT
