EPTOn July 26 2013 06:33 wcLLg wrote:
still no change to the bunker...
still no change to the bunker...
What is the problem with bunker ?
SC2 2.0.10 - patch - soon - Page 10
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
What is the problem with bunker ? | ||
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TranceKuja
United States154 Posts
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zmsFlood
Finland169 Posts
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On July 26 2013 17:34 TranceKuja wrote: Wow I had no idea how many computer programers posted on TL. Either that or people are talking a lot of shit about something they know nothing about. I'm sure that wouldn't happen on the internet though. That's kind of this for the most part  I'm a programer but i know nothing about building a game that huge and i'm sure a LOT of people there don't know too | ||
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llIH
Norway2144 Posts
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Clbull
United Kingdom1439 Posts
Really, this is something SC2 needed three years ago. LoL replays (from the 3rd party program) allow you to skip forward... Dota 2 replays allow you to skip forward. SC2 ones have to be played from the start and can only be fastforwarded to 8x speed. Hell... Age of Empires II replays, which came in The Conquerors expansion pack which came out about 13 years ago had this support... The fact this basic functionality took so long to implement makes me worry about Blizzard and the future of SC2. | ||
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graNite
Germany4434 Posts
On July 26 2013 18:18 FFW_Rude wrote: That's kind of this for the most part I'm a programer but i know nothing about building a game that huge and i'm sure a LOT of people there don't know too You dont have to know how to program if you want to compare games. I have no clues about building cars and I can still talk about what I like and dont like and what a car should have today. If we were talking about completely new features that nobody would know how to implement, this would be a fair point. But this is about features that already exist. Moreover, Bnet 2.0 didnt have all functions bnet 1 had, and seeing a company that large taking a step back is really sad for the game. In german we call something like this "bananenprinzip" it means the product is not finished completely when the customer gets it... | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On July 26 2013 20:52 graNite wrote: You dont have to know how to program if you want to compare games. I have no clues about building cars and I can still talk about what I like and dont like and what a car should have today. If we were talking about completely new features that nobody would know how to implement, this would be a fair point. But this is about features that already exist. Moreover, Bnet 2.0 didnt have all functions bnet 1 had, and seeing a company that large taking a step back is really sad for the game. In german we call something like this "bananenprinzip" it means the product is not finished completely when the customer gets it... Well... It's not the same platform, engine, so there is limitations maybe. Replays where not retrocompatible in BW so there is your step forward, also BW replays didn't have all the features that came in in SC2. Sure some stuff lacked in Bnet2.0 But comparing that another game has this fonctionality over this game is like saying "I don't understand why there is no 12cylinder motor in my cars ! Ferrari have it ! It's easy to implement". (ok i'm bad at metaphore) but i just say that touching a BIG program can cause a lot of trouble, time, money etc... Do you want to see HotS or do you want to fast forward replay. I'm gonna take an old work example for a small thing that took days of work. Ok so we had a program that you could create "person/customer sheets". You could chose : "Mister or Madam". So the program was done with a boolean inbase (0 or 1). And years later, i had my boss saying : "Now people complain about it and they want : Mister, Madam and miss)... This modification required to : "Modify the customer database", "Modify each "printscreen" of this, all the pages where you could specify gender" etc.. Took me a week to do it. (big program + i didn't know it really well, in a langage that i barely knew) but still. It would have been DAYS of work Is it understandable ? Explaining this in english is quite difficult for me | ||
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ulan-bat
China403 Posts
On July 26 2013 21:08 FFW_Rude wrote: Well... It's not the same platform, engine, so there is limitations maybe. Replays where not retrocompatible in BW so there is your step forward, also BW replays didn't have all the features that came in in SC2. Sure some stuff lacked in Bnet2.0 But comparing that another game has this fonctionality over this game is like saying "I don't understand why there is no 12cylinder motor in my cars ! Ferrari have it ! It's easy to implement". (ok i'm bad at metaphore) but i just say that touching a BIG program can cause a lot of trouble, time, money etc... Do you want to see HotS or do you want to fast forward replay. I'm gonna take an old work example for a small thing that took days of work. Ok so we had a program that you could create "person/customer sheets". You could chose : "Mister or Madam". So the program was done with a boolean inbase (0 or 1). And years later, i had my boss saying : "Now people complain about it and they want : Mister, Madam and miss)... This modification required to : "Modify the customer database", "Modify each "printscreen" of this, all the pages where you could specify gender" etc.. Took me a week to do it. (big program + i didn't know it really well, in a langage that i barely knew) but still. It would have been DAYS of work Is it understandable ? Explaining this in english is quite difficult for me What you say is true in general, but the case here is they built a game from scratch knowing what features had to be in there from the start. Your miss example is a case of an added feature | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On July 26 2013 22:42 ulan-bat wrote: What you say is true in general, but the case here is they built a game from scratch knowing what features had to be in there from the start. Your miss example is a case of an added feature I see what you mean. But i don't think you could fast forward replay in bw. Could you ? I don't remember. | ||
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BroMalone
Andorra8 Posts
Lots of people have mentioned Dota2 replays, and I agree they are a lot better than SC2 replay files. Starcraft replays mostly track the clicks and commands the player makes. Since the game has no randomness, the commands can be used to perfectly recreate the match. Even with random elements, replays can still work this way though. Warcraft 3 used the same replay format, but you can write RNG algorithms that will always generate the same results. The downside is that the replay file can't hold much information about the actual game state. For example, GGTracker can't tell you your exact army composition, it can only guess by looking at your unit selection commands. It doesn't know for sure if a unit dies, it just guesses that since you have one less marine in your control group, then a marine probably died. Another example is the screwed up build orders that SC2gears gives you. It knows you pressed the "make SCV" button, but it doesn't know if you are supply blocked or if you can actually afford the unit. So if you mash buttons it will think that you started producing 10 SCVs at once. The 2.0.8 patch added some new info to replay files that fixes some of this though. Dota2 replays track user input, but also take occasional snapshots of the exact game state. When you fast-forward, it looks for the closest snapshot and loads it up. The downside is that these snapshots need to contain a lot of information. Dota2 replay files are much larger than SC2 replays because of that. As far as people complaining about lazy/incompetent Blizzard programmers, even minor changes can have unforeseen consequences. They're more concerned with not breaking the game then they are with getting small improvements out as fast as possible. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26092 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Only one problem - no changes to it. | ||
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breath
United States199 Posts
On July 27 2013 01:01 BroMalone wrote: The downside is that the replay file can't hold much information about the actual game state. For example, GGTracker can't tell you your exact army composition, it can only guess by looking at your unit selection commands. It doesn't know for sure if a unit dies, it just guesses that since you have one less marine in your control group, then a marine probably died. Another example is the screwed up build orders that SC2gears gives you. It knows you pressed the "make SCV" button, but it doesn't know if you are supply blocked or if you can actually afford the unit. So if you mash buttons it will think that you started producing 10 SCVs at once. The 2.0.8 patch added some new info to replay files that fixes some of this though. I'm the creator of Sc2ReplayStats.com and i can tell you that this "was" the case with the old replay format but with their last change in version 2.0.8 they added tracker events which include things of units being born, and killed, along with structures produced and killed. So sites like Sc2ReplayStats.com and GGtracker no longer have to guess based on selection, its a known. For me i'm super excited to see what they added to the replay files. | ||
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BroMalone
Andorra8 Posts
On July 27 2013 01:44 breath wrote: I'm the creator of Sc2ReplayStats.com and i can tell you that this "was" the case with the old replay format but with their last change in version 2.0.8 they added tracker events which include things of units being born, and killed, along with structures produced and killed. So sites like Sc2ReplayStats.com and GGtracker no longer have to guess based on selection, its a known. For me i'm super excited to see what they added to the replay files. Yea I mentioned the 2.0.8 change. Have you updated your site to use the new info? I'm not sure if GGtracker has. Hopefully 2.0.10 makes that stuff easier though. 2.0.8 was a good addition, but it's still a pain to keep track of some things. Better tracking for larva hatching, warp ins, and chronoboosts would be nice. | ||
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breath
United States199 Posts
Yea I mentioned the 2.0.8 change. Have you updated your site to use the new info? I'm not sure if GGtracker has. Hopefully 2.0.10 makes that stuff easier though. 2.0.8 was a good addition, but it's still a pain to keep track of some things. Better tracking for larva hatching, warp ins, and chronoboosts would be nice. Yes i have implemented the 2.0.8 changes on sc2replaystats, and i'm about 99% sure ggtracker has to. Any new things they add into the replay file would make me very happy | ||
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Meteo Rain
Finland98 Posts
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dsjoerg
United States384 Posts
On July 27 2013 02:25 breath wrote: Yes i have implemented the 2.0.8 changes on sc2replaystats, and i'm about 99% sure ggtracker has to. Any new things they add into the replay file would make me very happy Breath is correct, indeed GGTracker implemented the 2.0.8 changes. In fact we worked with Blizzard on it, which was fun | ||
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blarkh
Austria72 Posts
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Hexo411
Croatia59 Posts
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