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SC2 2.0.10 - patch - soon - Page 10

Forum Index > SC2 General
215 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 Next All
FFW_Rude
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France10201 Posts
July 26 2013 07:46 GMT
#181
On July 26 2013 06:33 wcLLg wrote:
still no change to the bunker...


What is the problem with bunker ?
#1 KT Rolster fanboy. KT BEST KT ! Hail to KT playoffs Zergs ! Unofficial french translator for SlayerS_`Boxer` biography "Crazy as me".
TranceKuja
Profile Joined May 2011
United States154 Posts
July 26 2013 08:34 GMT
#182
Wow I had no idea how many computer programers posted on TL. Either that or people are talking a lot of shit about something they know nothing about. I'm sure that wouldn't happen on the internet though.
Winning
zmsFlood
Profile Joined April 2013
Finland169 Posts
July 26 2013 09:18 GMT
#183
It really is about fucking time for that jump-anywhere-in-a-replay -feature.
twitter.com/laurifalck | I don't want to get you drunk, but, ah, that's a very fine Chardonnay you're not drinking. | TLO!
FFW_Rude
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France10201 Posts
July 26 2013 09:18 GMT
#184
On July 26 2013 17:34 TranceKuja wrote:
Wow I had no idea how many computer programers posted on TL. Either that or people are talking a lot of shit about something they know nothing about. I'm sure that wouldn't happen on the internet though.


That's kind of this for the most part I'm a programer but i know nothing about building a game that huge and i'm sure a LOT of people there don't know too
#1 KT Rolster fanboy. KT BEST KT ! Hail to KT playoffs Zergs ! Unofficial french translator for SlayerS_`Boxer` biography "Crazy as me".
llIH
Profile Joined June 2011
Norway2142 Posts
July 26 2013 09:24 GMT
#185
Great
Clbull
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1439 Posts
July 26 2013 11:37 GMT
#186
So the technology is finally there?

Really, this is something SC2 needed three years ago. LoL replays (from the 3rd party program) allow you to skip forward... Dota 2 replays allow you to skip forward. SC2 ones have to be played from the start and can only be fastforwarded to 8x speed.

Hell... Age of Empires II replays, which came in The Conquerors expansion pack which came out about 13 years ago had this support...

The fact this basic functionality took so long to implement makes me worry about Blizzard and the future of SC2.
graNite
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany4434 Posts
July 26 2013 11:52 GMT
#187
On July 26 2013 18:18 FFW_Rude wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2013 17:34 TranceKuja wrote:
Wow I had no idea how many computer programers posted on TL. Either that or people are talking a lot of shit about something they know nothing about. I'm sure that wouldn't happen on the internet though.


That's kind of this for the most part I'm a programer but i know nothing about building a game that huge and i'm sure a LOT of people there don't know too


You dont have to know how to program if you want to compare games. I have no clues about building cars and I can still talk about what I like and dont like and what a car should have today.
If we were talking about completely new features that nobody would know how to implement, this would be a fair point.
But this is about features that already exist. Moreover, Bnet 2.0 didnt have all functions bnet 1 had, and seeing a company that large taking a step back is really sad for the game.

In german we call something like this "bananenprinzip"
it means the product is not finished completely when the customer gets it...
"Oink oink, bitches" - Tasteless on Pigbaby winning a map against Flash
FFW_Rude
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France10201 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-26 12:10:02
July 26 2013 12:08 GMT
#188
On July 26 2013 20:52 graNite wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2013 18:18 FFW_Rude wrote:
On July 26 2013 17:34 TranceKuja wrote:
Wow I had no idea how many computer programers posted on TL. Either that or people are talking a lot of shit about something they know nothing about. I'm sure that wouldn't happen on the internet though.


That's kind of this for the most part I'm a programer but i know nothing about building a game that huge and i'm sure a LOT of people there don't know too


You dont have to know how to program if you want to compare games. I have no clues about building cars and I can still talk about what I like and dont like and what a car should have today.
If we were talking about completely new features that nobody would know how to implement, this would be a fair point.
But this is about features that already exist. Moreover, Bnet 2.0 didnt have all functions bnet 1 had, and seeing a company that large taking a step back is really sad for the game.

In german we call something like this "bananenprinzip"
it means the product is not finished completely when the customer gets it...


Well... It's not the same platform, engine, so there is limitations maybe. Replays where not retrocompatible in BW so there is your step forward, also BW replays didn't have all the features that came in in SC2. Sure some stuff lacked in Bnet2.0 But comparing that another game has this fonctionality over this game is like saying

"I don't understand why there is no 12cylinder motor in my cars ! Ferrari have it ! It's easy to implement". (ok i'm bad at metaphore) but i just say that touching a BIG program can cause a lot of trouble, time, money etc...

Do you want to see HotS or do you want to fast forward replay. I'm gonna take an old work example for a small thing that took days of work.

Ok so we had a program that you could create "person/customer sheets". You could chose : "Mister or Madam". So the program was done with a boolean inbase (0 or 1). And years later, i had my boss saying : "Now people complain about it and they want : Mister, Madam and miss)...

This modification required to : "Modify the customer database", "Modify each "printscreen" of this, all the pages where you could specify gender" etc.. Took me a week to do it. (big program + i didn't know it really well, in a langage that i barely knew) but still. It would have been DAYS of work

Is it understandable ? Explaining this in english is quite difficult for me
#1 KT Rolster fanboy. KT BEST KT ! Hail to KT playoffs Zergs ! Unofficial french translator for SlayerS_`Boxer` biography "Crazy as me".
ulan-bat
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
China403 Posts
July 26 2013 13:42 GMT
#189
On July 26 2013 21:08 FFW_Rude wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2013 20:52 graNite wrote:
On July 26 2013 18:18 FFW_Rude wrote:
On July 26 2013 17:34 TranceKuja wrote:
Wow I had no idea how many computer programers posted on TL. Either that or people are talking a lot of shit about something they know nothing about. I'm sure that wouldn't happen on the internet though.


That's kind of this for the most part I'm a programer but i know nothing about building a game that huge and i'm sure a LOT of people there don't know too


You dont have to know how to program if you want to compare games. I have no clues about building cars and I can still talk about what I like and dont like and what a car should have today.
If we were talking about completely new features that nobody would know how to implement, this would be a fair point.
But this is about features that already exist. Moreover, Bnet 2.0 didnt have all functions bnet 1 had, and seeing a company that large taking a step back is really sad for the game.

In german we call something like this "bananenprinzip"
it means the product is not finished completely when the customer gets it...


Well... It's not the same platform, engine, so there is limitations maybe. Replays where not retrocompatible in BW so there is your step forward, also BW replays didn't have all the features that came in in SC2. Sure some stuff lacked in Bnet2.0 But comparing that another game has this fonctionality over this game is like saying

"I don't understand why there is no 12cylinder motor in my cars ! Ferrari have it ! It's easy to implement". (ok i'm bad at metaphore) but i just say that touching a BIG program can cause a lot of trouble, time, money etc...

Do you want to see HotS or do you want to fast forward replay. I'm gonna take an old work example for a small thing that took days of work.

Ok so we had a program that you could create "person/customer sheets". You could chose : "Mister or Madam". So the program was done with a boolean inbase (0 or 1). And years later, i had my boss saying : "Now people complain about it and they want : Mister, Madam and miss)...

This modification required to : "Modify the customer database", "Modify each "printscreen" of this, all the pages where you could specify gender" etc.. Took me a week to do it. (big program + i didn't know it really well, in a langage that i barely knew) but still. It would have been DAYS of work

Is it understandable ? Explaining this in english is quite difficult for me

What you say is true in general, but the case here is they built a game from scratch knowing what features had to be in there from the start.
Your miss example is a case of an added feature
"Short games, shorts, summer weather, those things bring the heat!" - EG.iNcontroL
FFW_Rude
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France10201 Posts
July 26 2013 14:16 GMT
#190
On July 26 2013 22:42 ulan-bat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2013 21:08 FFW_Rude wrote:
On July 26 2013 20:52 graNite wrote:
On July 26 2013 18:18 FFW_Rude wrote:
On July 26 2013 17:34 TranceKuja wrote:
Wow I had no idea how many computer programers posted on TL. Either that or people are talking a lot of shit about something they know nothing about. I'm sure that wouldn't happen on the internet though.


That's kind of this for the most part I'm a programer but i know nothing about building a game that huge and i'm sure a LOT of people there don't know too


You dont have to know how to program if you want to compare games. I have no clues about building cars and I can still talk about what I like and dont like and what a car should have today.
If we were talking about completely new features that nobody would know how to implement, this would be a fair point.
But this is about features that already exist. Moreover, Bnet 2.0 didnt have all functions bnet 1 had, and seeing a company that large taking a step back is really sad for the game.

In german we call something like this "bananenprinzip"
it means the product is not finished completely when the customer gets it...


Well... It's not the same platform, engine, so there is limitations maybe. Replays where not retrocompatible in BW so there is your step forward, also BW replays didn't have all the features that came in in SC2. Sure some stuff lacked in Bnet2.0 But comparing that another game has this fonctionality over this game is like saying

"I don't understand why there is no 12cylinder motor in my cars ! Ferrari have it ! It's easy to implement". (ok i'm bad at metaphore) but i just say that touching a BIG program can cause a lot of trouble, time, money etc...

Do you want to see HotS or do you want to fast forward replay. I'm gonna take an old work example for a small thing that took days of work.

Ok so we had a program that you could create "person/customer sheets". You could chose : "Mister or Madam". So the program was done with a boolean inbase (0 or 1). And years later, i had my boss saying : "Now people complain about it and they want : Mister, Madam and miss)...

This modification required to : "Modify the customer database", "Modify each "printscreen" of this, all the pages where you could specify gender" etc.. Took me a week to do it. (big program + i didn't know it really well, in a langage that i barely knew) but still. It would have been DAYS of work

Is it understandable ? Explaining this in english is quite difficult for me

What you say is true in general, but the case here is they built a game from scratch knowing what features had to be in there from the start.
Your miss example is a case of an added feature


I see what you mean. But i don't think you could fast forward replay in bw. Could you ? I don't remember.
#1 KT Rolster fanboy. KT BEST KT ! Hail to KT playoffs Zergs ! Unofficial french translator for SlayerS_`Boxer` biography "Crazy as me".
BroMalone
Profile Joined July 2013
Andorra8 Posts
July 26 2013 16:01 GMT
#191
I've written some scripts that analyze replay files, and they have some weird quirks right now; hopefully the update will fix some of them.

Lots of people have mentioned Dota2 replays, and I agree they are a lot better than SC2 replay files. Starcraft replays mostly track the clicks and commands the player makes. Since the game has no randomness, the commands can be used to perfectly recreate the match. Even with random elements, replays can still work this way though. Warcraft 3 used the same replay format, but you can write RNG algorithms that will always generate the same results.

The downside is that the replay file can't hold much information about the actual game state. For example, GGTracker can't tell you your exact army composition, it can only guess by looking at your unit selection commands. It doesn't know for sure if a unit dies, it just guesses that since you have one less marine in your control group, then a marine probably died. Another example is the screwed up build orders that SC2gears gives you. It knows you pressed the "make SCV" button, but it doesn't know if you are supply blocked or if you can actually afford the unit. So if you mash buttons it will think that you started producing 10 SCVs at once. The 2.0.8 patch added some new info to replay files that fixes some of this though.

Dota2 replays track user input, but also take occasional snapshots of the exact game state. When you fast-forward, it looks for the closest snapshot and loads it up. The downside is that these snapshots need to contain a lot of information. Dota2 replay files are much larger than SC2 replays because of that.

As far as people complaining about lazy/incompetent Blizzard programmers, even minor changes can have unforeseen consequences. They're more concerned with not breaking the game then they are with getting small improvements out as fast as possible.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland24834 Posts
July 26 2013 16:10 GMT
#192
People expecting quick implementation, need I mention the APM counter?
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4295 Posts
July 26 2013 16:23 GMT
#193
On July 26 2013 16:46 FFW_Rude wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2013 06:33 wcLLg wrote:
still no change to the bunker...


What is the problem with bunker ?

Only one problem - no changes to it.
breath
Profile Joined March 2012
United States199 Posts
July 26 2013 16:44 GMT
#194
On July 27 2013 01:01 BroMalone wrote:
The downside is that the replay file can't hold much information about the actual game state. For example, GGTracker can't tell you your exact army composition, it can only guess by looking at your unit selection commands. It doesn't know for sure if a unit dies, it just guesses that since you have one less marine in your control group, then a marine probably died. Another example is the screwed up build orders that SC2gears gives you. It knows you pressed the "make SCV" button, but it doesn't know if you are supply blocked or if you can actually afford the unit. So if you mash buttons it will think that you started producing 10 SCVs at once. The 2.0.8 patch added some new info to replay files that fixes some of this though.


I'm the creator of Sc2ReplayStats.com and i can tell you that this "was" the case with the old replay format but with their last change in version 2.0.8 they added tracker events which include things of units being born, and killed, along with structures produced and killed. So sites like Sc2ReplayStats.com and GGtracker no longer have to guess based on selection, its a known.

For me i'm super excited to see what they added to the replay files.
Smile tomorrow will be worse :)
BroMalone
Profile Joined July 2013
Andorra8 Posts
July 26 2013 17:08 GMT
#195
On July 27 2013 01:44 breath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2013 01:01 BroMalone wrote:
The downside is that the replay file can't hold much information about the actual game state. For example, GGTracker can't tell you your exact army composition, it can only guess by looking at your unit selection commands. It doesn't know for sure if a unit dies, it just guesses that since you have one less marine in your control group, then a marine probably died. Another example is the screwed up build orders that SC2gears gives you. It knows you pressed the "make SCV" button, but it doesn't know if you are supply blocked or if you can actually afford the unit. So if you mash buttons it will think that you started producing 10 SCVs at once. The 2.0.8 patch added some new info to replay files that fixes some of this though.


I'm the creator of Sc2ReplayStats.com and i can tell you that this "was" the case with the old replay format but with their last change in version 2.0.8 they added tracker events which include things of units being born, and killed, along with structures produced and killed. So sites like Sc2ReplayStats.com and GGtracker no longer have to guess based on selection, its a known.

For me i'm super excited to see what they added to the replay files.


Yea I mentioned the 2.0.8 change. Have you updated your site to use the new info? I'm not sure if GGtracker has.

Hopefully 2.0.10 makes that stuff easier though. 2.0.8 was a good addition, but it's still a pain to keep track of some things. Better tracking for larva hatching, warp ins, and chronoboosts would be nice.
breath
Profile Joined March 2012
United States199 Posts
July 26 2013 17:25 GMT
#196

Yea I mentioned the 2.0.8 change. Have you updated your site to use the new info? I'm not sure if GGtracker has.

Hopefully 2.0.10 makes that stuff easier though. 2.0.8 was a good addition, but it's still a pain to keep track of some things. Better tracking for larva hatching, warp ins, and chronoboosts would be nice.


Yes i have implemented the 2.0.8 changes on sc2replaystats, and i'm about 99% sure ggtracker has to.

Any new things they add into the replay file would make me very happy
Smile tomorrow will be worse :)
Meteo Rain
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Finland98 Posts
July 26 2013 17:56 GMT
#197
Haha I like the soon(tm)
I have lost my phone number, can I have yours?
dsjoerg
Profile Joined January 2012
United States384 Posts
July 26 2013 20:17 GMT
#198
On July 27 2013 02:25 breath wrote:
Show nested quote +

Yea I mentioned the 2.0.8 change. Have you updated your site to use the new info? I'm not sure if GGtracker has.

Hopefully 2.0.10 makes that stuff easier though. 2.0.8 was a good addition, but it's still a pain to keep track of some things. Better tracking for larva hatching, warp ins, and chronoboosts would be nice.


Yes i have implemented the 2.0.8 changes on sc2replaystats, and i'm about 99% sure ggtracker has to.

Any new things they add into the replay file would make me very happy


Breath is correct, indeed GGTracker implemented the 2.0.8 changes. In fact we worked with Blizzard on it, which was fun
card-carrying grubby fan. developer of GGTracker.
blarkh
Profile Joined December 2011
Austria72 Posts
July 27 2013 03:40 GMT
#199
It is amazing how many people you can make mad by adding a feature they want to have.
Hexo411
Profile Joined June 2012
Croatia59 Posts
July 27 2013 04:17 GMT
#200
My life is now complete, this huge patch will affect me in so many ways. There are no words to express the impact this will have on my life... From now on I will wake up every single day and remember that I have been blessed with this unique opportunity in my life. I can skip to any part of replay, all that in a single patch. The peace of mind I've been searching for through balanced diet and regular excercising was actually in vain. The real path was right in front of my nose, the game we all love an enjoy, StarCraft 2 blessed us with answers to the mysteries of life and life beyond death. It will be my duty as a human being, to celebrate Patch 2.0.10. by declaring it my personal New Year. From that day on, I shall count years. From 0 onwards. I never really thought I'd say "skip to any part of the replay" in a single sentence. But that only proves that we shouldn't discard events that are almost impossible with a lot of prejudice. Tears of joy have been shed upon my eyes. This is a glorious day for all of us.
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 Next All
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