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This is stunningly poor planning. Even without potential problems with Twitch (which was barely able to LCS NA last weekend), and even without TI being scheduled for the same weekend, scheduling all three finals for the same weekend is nuts. It's like they expect each region to only watch "their" finals, when in reality they'll start with a lot of viewers and end with very few - and that's without the massive issues I already described.
If they think they're going to compete with Dota2 they're insane - all their going to end up doing is ruining their viewer numbers for the weekend while Dota pulls in a ton for TI (which people can view regardless of Twitch crapping out), and LoL pulls in crazy numbers the next weekend because it's the last week of the LCS regular season, it's a super week (tons of games - and exciting ones because it'll determine who makes the playoffs) and there are no major events to compete with because Riot understands scheduling/competition/economics.
It's pretty clear the winner here is Riot - they have a massive event to themselves the week after this massive clusterfuck crashes twitch (which they also don't have to worry about because they use youtube and azubu as well).
And I love LoL, but it sucks to see Blizzard fucking things up for themselves and Dota2 (even if Dota won't get fucked that hard) - I like Dota2 and SC2 also.
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On July 23 2013 06:33 whoso wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 06:30 TheDougler wrote:On July 23 2013 06:26 Turbulencedota wrote:On July 23 2013 06:20 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On July 23 2013 06:16 Yoshi- wrote:On July 23 2013 06:02 Random_Guy09 wrote:On July 23 2013 05:57 Rhaegal wrote:
considering most SC2 fans are also big Dota 2 fans. . Speak for yourself, I might give TI3 a watch but I couldnt care less about dota. If only I would kill everyone that responses to a "most people are xxx" question with "well, i am not" How about backing up random bullshit claims like "most SC2 fans are also big Dota 2 fans" with some factual evidence instead?  I believe viewernumbers will provide you enough evidence. If not even that, nothing can prove that to you Speaking as another SC2 fan who isn't a dota fan (though I'm sure it's a great game), how on earth can you figure that? How will you know if the viewers of one are the viewers of another by simply the numbers alone? The fact of the matter is you have given zero evidence to support your claim. for competent statisticians, it should be possible to some extent to explore the impact of TI3 on WCS viewership and vice versa.
It's very easy, we just need a poll in the OP of this thread.
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On July 23 2013 06:28 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 06:26 Turbulencedota wrote:On July 23 2013 06:20 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On July 23 2013 06:16 Yoshi- wrote:On July 23 2013 06:02 Random_Guy09 wrote:On July 23 2013 05:57 Rhaegal wrote:
considering most SC2 fans are also big Dota 2 fans. . Speak for yourself, I might give TI3 a watch but I couldnt care less about dota. If only I would kill everyone that responses to a "most people are xxx" question with "well, i am not" How about backing up random bullshit claims like "most SC2 fans are also big Dota 2 fans" with some factual evidence instead? I believe viewernumbers will provide you enough evidence. If not even that, nothing can prove that to you How? DotA 2's viewer base is already many times bigger. How do you know if SC2 getting, let's say, 20k viewers less on average during the whole event is going to be due to them watching TI3 instead of technical issues with Twitch or something completely different like being away on holiday or something? How can you prove that beyond shadow of a doubt? And even then, a 10-20k decrease in viewership would still be far less than "most SC2 fans", as I'm sure you're well aware.
The issue is that for starcraft 20k viewers is a BIG proportion(let's say 20% for EU,35% for KR and 45% for NA
Correct me if I'm wrong, but WCS S1 EU had the biggest viewing numbers(~110k)(i dont follow sc2 as much). and Dota 2 at the moment shines the most in EU. Maybe this is a bald prediction, but I'd say EU wont go past 75k that weekend.
p.s:I'd be happy if I'd be wrong
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On July 23 2013 06:33 whoso wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 06:30 TheDougler wrote:On July 23 2013 06:26 Turbulencedota wrote:On July 23 2013 06:20 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On July 23 2013 06:16 Yoshi- wrote:On July 23 2013 06:02 Random_Guy09 wrote:On July 23 2013 05:57 Rhaegal wrote:
considering most SC2 fans are also big Dota 2 fans. . Speak for yourself, I might give TI3 a watch but I couldnt care less about dota. If only I would kill everyone that responses to a "most people are xxx" question with "well, i am not" How about backing up random bullshit claims like "most SC2 fans are also big Dota 2 fans" with some factual evidence instead? I believe viewernumbers will provide you enough evidence. If not even that, nothing can prove that to you Speaking as another SC2 fan who isn't a dota fan (though I'm sure it's a great game), how on earth can you figure that? How will you know if the viewers of one are the viewers of another by simply the numbers alone? The fact of the matter is you have given zero evidence to support your claim. for competent statisticians, it should be possible to some extent to explore the impact of TI3 on WCS viewership and vice versa.
Oh there most definitely will be a noticeable impact, I don't think anyone's contesting that.
However the claim that "most SC2 fans are also Dota 2 fans" (keyword "most", not "many", not "quite a few", but more than half) is an absolutely ridiculous thing to just say without any evidence whatsoever.
On July 23 2013 06:35 Turbulencedota wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 06:28 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On July 23 2013 06:26 Turbulencedota wrote:On July 23 2013 06:20 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On July 23 2013 06:16 Yoshi- wrote:On July 23 2013 06:02 Random_Guy09 wrote:On July 23 2013 05:57 Rhaegal wrote:
considering most SC2 fans are also big Dota 2 fans. . Speak for yourself, I might give TI3 a watch but I couldnt care less about dota. If only I would kill everyone that responses to a "most people are xxx" question with "well, i am not" How about backing up random bullshit claims like "most SC2 fans are also big Dota 2 fans" with some factual evidence instead? I believe viewernumbers will provide you enough evidence. If not even that, nothing can prove that to you How? DotA 2's viewer base is already many times bigger. How do you know if SC2 getting, let's say, 20k viewers less on average during the whole event is going to be due to them watching TI3 instead of technical issues with Twitch or something completely different like being away on holiday or something? How can you prove that beyond shadow of a doubt? And even then, a 10-20k decrease in viewership would still be far less than "most SC2 fans", as I'm sure you're well aware. The issue is that for starcraft 20k viewers is a BIG proportion(let's say 20% for EU,35% for KR and 45% for NA Correct me if I'm wrong, but WCS S1 EU had the biggest viewing numbers(~110k)(i dont follow sc2 as much). and Dota 2 at the moment shines the most in EU. Maybe this is a bald prediction, but I'd say EU wont go past 75k that weekend. p.s:I'd be happy if I'd be wrong
I think you're not understanding very well what I'm saying.
Again, this clash of schedules will most definitely affect SC2 in a significant way, but I don't think that more than half of the viewers are going to watch TI3 instead. In fact I'd attribute a fair share of the decrease simply to Twitch technical issues in Europe.
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On July 23 2013 06:35 c0ldfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 06:33 whoso wrote:On July 23 2013 06:30 TheDougler wrote:On July 23 2013 06:26 Turbulencedota wrote:On July 23 2013 06:20 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On July 23 2013 06:16 Yoshi- wrote:On July 23 2013 06:02 Random_Guy09 wrote:On July 23 2013 05:57 Rhaegal wrote:
considering most SC2 fans are also big Dota 2 fans. . Speak for yourself, I might give TI3 a watch but I couldnt care less about dota. If only I would kill everyone that responses to a "most people are xxx" question with "well, i am not" How about backing up random bullshit claims like "most SC2 fans are also big Dota 2 fans" with some factual evidence instead? I believe viewernumbers will provide you enough evidence. If not even that, nothing can prove that to you Speaking as another SC2 fan who isn't a dota fan (though I'm sure it's a great game), how on earth can you figure that? How will you know if the viewers of one are the viewers of another by simply the numbers alone? The fact of the matter is you have given zero evidence to support your claim. for competent statisticians, it should be possible to some extent to explore the impact of TI3 on WCS viewership and vice versa. It's very easy, we just need a poll in the OP of this thread.
Yea that is the way to go to make an unbiased statistic.
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On July 23 2013 06:29 Taku wrote:
This is kinda bad because Blizzard is showing how amateur they are in pulling this stunt, I wonder how sponsors and other organizations will feel about this.
Maybe it's their version of THE ULTIMATE SHOWDOWN and they want to prove that SC2 is better than DOTA? Nah, really don't know... But I guess they have overloaded the SC2 calendar already with so many tournaments now (TB complained a lot of times about finding days to do his own tournament on without overlapping with WCS) that this is "the" weekend. There's still a whole WCS season to do with season finals and followed by the grand finals... maybe they also want to introduce a kind of winter break?
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Well, let's just hope that Blizzard learns a lot from this year and makes sure they have everything properly planned out for the next.
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The ego on blizzard... it amazes me...
BLIZZARD, GO HOME, YOU ARE DELUSIONAL.
i can't even believe how bad of a business decision this is. dota is our friend. more dota viewers = more esports viewers = more starcraft 2 viewers.
in 2010 i would have said blizzard was at the forefront of advancing esports... now they have become SC2's worst enemy. Maybe its time the community lets blizzard know that we liked it better when they let the community do all the hard decisions...
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On July 23 2013 06:36 Yoshi- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 06:35 c0ldfusion wrote:On July 23 2013 06:33 whoso wrote:On July 23 2013 06:30 TheDougler wrote:On July 23 2013 06:26 Turbulencedota wrote:On July 23 2013 06:20 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On July 23 2013 06:16 Yoshi- wrote:On July 23 2013 06:02 Random_Guy09 wrote:On July 23 2013 05:57 Rhaegal wrote:
considering most SC2 fans are also big Dota 2 fans. . Speak for yourself, I might give TI3 a watch but I couldnt care less about dota. If only I would kill everyone that responses to a "most people are xxx" question with "well, i am not" How about backing up random bullshit claims like "most SC2 fans are also big Dota 2 fans" with some factual evidence instead? I believe viewernumbers will provide you enough evidence. If not even that, nothing can prove that to you Speaking as another SC2 fan who isn't a dota fan (though I'm sure it's a great game), how on earth can you figure that? How will you know if the viewers of one are the viewers of another by simply the numbers alone? The fact of the matter is you have given zero evidence to support your claim. for competent statisticians, it should be possible to some extent to explore the impact of TI3 on WCS viewership and vice versa. It's very easy, we just need a poll in the OP of this thread. Yea that is the way to go to make an unbiased statistic.
Biased in what way? Based on what forum this thread belongs to? Well of course, I'm just saying it'd be an easy thing to do and right now we have nothing.
Ideally there would be a poll on the front page of this website. (Yes, I'm aware that it will still be biased, but it'd be the best data we have on TL.)
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Rod Breslau @Slasher 1m
Blizzard informs me they will be posting an official response soon regarding the WCS/International 3 overlap.
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As an equal fan of dota and sc2 - i could not give a damn.
In WCS there are 4 global season finals, 1 blizzcon gigantic world tournament, and 12 regional finals per year.
If some of them are on the same time as international - then i guess i just maybe watch starcraft during TI3 downtime.
Probably will tune in for the biggest games - unless something equally big is going on at dota.
Its actually awesome, once i feel like i have watched too much dota i can watch starcraft and vice versa.
... starcraft players are just going to get bit less exposure - but its just few events out of so many this year. And anybody who thinks dota2 is going to lose above marginal amount of viewers is delusional.
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Aaaand now the backtrack. Blizzard just showing how little they have it together as an organization.
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sigh, why do they make use choose between dota2 and the sc2 scene. this isn't helping.
I'm sorry but i'll watch the OSL and TI3 since those are what interest me most, but eu and na are gonna get massive dips in their viewership competing against TI3... 2.6 million dollars on the line, and you want to throw your 100k tournament against it? yeah right. goddamnit blizzard, I want to support you, but ever since rob simpson left, you've been making continuously terrible decisions. da fuq.
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On July 23 2013 06:40 c0ldfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 06:36 Yoshi- wrote:On July 23 2013 06:35 c0ldfusion wrote:On July 23 2013 06:33 whoso wrote:On July 23 2013 06:30 TheDougler wrote:On July 23 2013 06:26 Turbulencedota wrote:On July 23 2013 06:20 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On July 23 2013 06:16 Yoshi- wrote:On July 23 2013 06:02 Random_Guy09 wrote:On July 23 2013 05:57 Rhaegal wrote:
considering most SC2 fans are also big Dota 2 fans. . Speak for yourself, I might give TI3 a watch but I couldnt care less about dota. If only I would kill everyone that responses to a "most people are xxx" question with "well, i am not" How about backing up random bullshit claims like "most SC2 fans are also big Dota 2 fans" with some factual evidence instead? I believe viewernumbers will provide you enough evidence. If not even that, nothing can prove that to you Speaking as another SC2 fan who isn't a dota fan (though I'm sure it's a great game), how on earth can you figure that? How will you know if the viewers of one are the viewers of another by simply the numbers alone? The fact of the matter is you have given zero evidence to support your claim. for competent statisticians, it should be possible to some extent to explore the impact of TI3 on WCS viewership and vice versa. It's very easy, we just need a poll in the OP of this thread. Yea that is the way to go to make an unbiased statistic. Biased in what way? Based on what forum this thread belongs to? Well of course, I'm just saying it'd be an easy thing to do and right now we have nothing. Ideally there would be a poll on the front page of this website. (Yes, I'm aware that it will still be biased, but it'd be the best data we have on TL.)
Polls on the internet are worthless, period. They prove nothing. There is a reason that there are entired companies that preform polls to assure they are not bias. I hate it when people just throw a poll up in a thread and then cite that poll as evidence
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I am just hoping that the new EU server of Twitch are ready until then...
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I think Blizzard's basically going to say that this is a logistical issue that was unfortunate but necessary.
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On July 23 2013 06:43 rename wrote:
As an equal fan of dota and sc2 - i could not give a damn.
In WCS there are 4 global season finals, 1 blizzcon gigantic world tournament, and 12 regional finals per year.
If some of them are on the same time as international - then i guess i just maybe watch starcraft during TI3 downtime.
Probably will tune in for the biggest games - unless something equally big is going on at dota.
Its actually awesome, once i feel like i have watched too much dota i can watch starcraft and vice versa.
... starcraft players are just going to get bit less exposure - but its just few events out of so many this year. And anybody who thinks dota2 is going to lose above marginal amount of viewers is delusional.
I am kinda with this guy. As long as I catch the final matches for all 4 events, I'm not going to care that much.
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Schedules are tough enough already; for all we know Blizzard saw this as the lesser of several evils, and maybe we'll agree.
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On July 23 2013 06:44 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 06:40 c0ldfusion wrote:On July 23 2013 06:36 Yoshi- wrote:On July 23 2013 06:35 c0ldfusion wrote:On July 23 2013 06:33 whoso wrote:On July 23 2013 06:30 TheDougler wrote:On July 23 2013 06:26 Turbulencedota wrote:On July 23 2013 06:20 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On July 23 2013 06:16 Yoshi- wrote:On July 23 2013 06:02 Random_Guy09 wrote:
[quote]
Speak for yourself, I might give TI3 a watch but I couldnt care less about dota. If only I would kill everyone that responses to a "most people are xxx" question with "well, i am not" How about backing up random bullshit claims like "most SC2 fans are also big Dota 2 fans" with some factual evidence instead? I believe viewernumbers will provide you enough evidence. If not even that, nothing can prove that to you Speaking as another SC2 fan who isn't a dota fan (though I'm sure it's a great game), how on earth can you figure that? How will you know if the viewers of one are the viewers of another by simply the numbers alone? The fact of the matter is you have given zero evidence to support your claim. for competent statisticians, it should be possible to some extent to explore the impact of TI3 on WCS viewership and vice versa. It's very easy, we just need a poll in the OP of this thread. Yea that is the way to go to make an unbiased statistic. Biased in what way? Based on what forum this thread belongs to? Well of course, I'm just saying it'd be an easy thing to do and right now we have nothing. Ideally there would be a poll on the front page of this website. (Yes, I'm aware that it will still be biased, but it'd be the best data we have on TL.) Polls on the internet are worthless, period. They prove nothing. There is a reason that there are entired companies that preform polls to assure they are not bias. I hate it when people just throw a poll up in a thread and then cite that poll as evidence
Way to generalize, are you a statistician or do you just enjoy arguing over the internet?
My main point is that people are vastly overreacting in this thread. Lacking statistically data, I can only use my understanding of both games to infer that an overlap in spectators for the two games should not be significant.
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On July 23 2013 06:44 Kazeyonoma wrote:
sigh, why do they make use choose between dota2 and the sc2 scene. this isn't helping.
I'm sorry but i'll watch the OSL and TI3 since those are what interest me most, but eu and na are gonna get massive dips in their viewership competing against TI3... 2.6 million dollars on the line, and you want to throw your 100k tournament against it? yeah right. goddamnit blizzard, I want to support you, but ever since rob simpson left, you've been making continuously terrible decisions. da fuq.
WCS EU is historically the strongest of the bunch. WCS korea doesn't get its 100k viewers at the finals.
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EPT
