EPTHowever this change basically kills off hellbats in TvZ and TvP. Great job blizzard for saying hellbats are only a problem in TvT, and then making a nerf that makes hellbats uselessin TvZ and TvP.
Balance patch this week - Hellbats nerfed, Banshees buffed…
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Lock0n
United Kingdom184 Posts
However this change basically kills off hellbats in TvZ and TvP. Great job blizzard for saying hellbats are only a problem in TvT, and then making a nerf that makes hellbats uselessin TvZ and TvP. | ||
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AceOfCakez
United States72 Posts
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
it's a change that will strictly change TvT only and make it obnoxious. | ||
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asdfOu
United States2089 Posts
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midnight999
United States257 Posts
On July 09 2013 06:12 c0sm0naut wrote: Teamliquid, where people cannot see the connection between midgame harass and an asymmetrically designed matchup honestly, what a dumbass question Please stop whining | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
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HearthCraft
United States117 Posts
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hli
Canada32 Posts
Someone already pointed this out, but now Hellbat compositions in TvP have been massively nerfed, making TvP literally the same as WoL TvP, while PvT has gotten a massive buff in terms of mothership core, oracle, tempest. And please, just because Banshees are now a little bit cheaper, does not make them even remotely good enough to warrant being used in TvP. | ||
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KJSharp
United States84 Posts
I think DeMuslim is right - TvT will now be Cloak Banshee into Hellbat Drop. More interesting, but still not as good as in WoL. | ||
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midnight999
United States257 Posts
On July 09 2013 07:29 Markwerf wrote: lol that has nothing to do with it. Hellbats are biological so it promotes drop play in mech.. At the point they were still investing in mech to become a real option which was the idea behind HotS terran. Overall this patch is ok. Hellbat nerf is good for the game and a banshee buff is fine, however the banshee buff may be a little much. 1 gas banshee becomes possible now which seems really strong for TvT and possible even TvZ. With hellbats drops out of the equation i can see banshee opener becoming too good in TvT, it's quite safe, likely to equalize against FE and seems to have little weaknesses. Worst of all about this patch though is that mech is getting nerfed AGAIN for a thing that doesn't concern mech... Tanks got nerfed long time ago because of small maps 1-1-1 got nerfed several times (immortal buff etc) blueflame hellions got nerfed for being too strong against zerg now hellbats nerfed because of drops. Mech needs MECH buffs in response not other generic buffs (arguably banshee openers enable mech a bit more but not enough to compensate for needing blueflame). They could have easily removed transformation servos for example, that tech was only ever introduced to prevent hellbat timings (you could make hellions, get an armory and instantly have strong hellbat timings). With blueflame being neccesary for hellbats to shine it would have been reasonable to remove transformation servos for example. I tried out 1-gas cloak banshee. It's not really an option due to timing and the gas amount. | ||
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Lock0n
United Kingdom184 Posts
On July 09 2013 08:37 Gamegene wrote: this banshee change is just upsetting because it doesn't do anything for TvZ or TvP. because of the widow mine's existence the other races HAVE to have detection early, and unlike the marine stalker and queen has so many hit points enough to just ward away without too much trouble. it's a change that will strictly change TvT only and make it obnoxious. Actually, I think the banshee change will make Hellion Banshee the staple TvZ build once again, just because of how popular roach busts are nowadays. Yes zerg can still defend mineral lines easily, but once Innovation + Flash start going hellion banshee they will be even more unstoppable. Might even see some widow mine banshee pushes lol, would be pretty sick at killing queens. The banshee change makes basically no difference to TvT, cloak timing generally isn't dependant on gas anyway. More players will go banshee. | ||
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xxxKagexxx
France43 Posts
we'll never seen anymore any hellbat now. i was hoping they will gave to terran unit detection earlier then raven but they really don't care about that. | ||
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phodacbiet
United States1740 Posts
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Lock0n
United Kingdom184 Posts
On July 09 2013 08:57 phodacbiet wrote: Holy shit the amount of complaints over this. Why dont you all just wait till the good players (pros) show you if the change is good or bad. Remember when everyone complained ghost sucked and MVP got them nerfed and everyone bitched like no other how it would break the matchup? Just wait holy shit the change hasn't even hit most region yet and people have already cry enough to fill the grand canyon. If you sucked and lost to random cheesy strats before patch, you will still suck AFTER the patch, sorry. I am starting to think the money for TL+ is being used to pay for a large enough tampon for the bitches on TL. The ghost nerf did break the matchup. Infestor broodlord then became unstoppable, and everyone knows what happened to TvZ after that. | ||
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Nakwa
Sweden93 Posts
Then this would have made a little more sense. | ||
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VArsovskiSC
Macedonia563 Posts
However - the Hellbat change seems like a very good change overall.. maybe should be like 18+10 instead of 18+20 (due to TvP late game, a bit too harsh on Zealots IMO), but what's more important IMO is the following: * Hellbats will still 2-shot Lings * Hellbats will require 3 shots to kill +1 Carapace Lings * Hellbats will now 3-shot instead of 2-shot workers * Hellbats with BF upgrade will again 2-shot workers So yah - kinda always cool to see the upgrade wars work more effective overall.. :D | ||
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DwD
Sweden8621 Posts
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1a2a3aPro
Canada227 Posts
On July 09 2013 08:44 hli wrote: All they needed to do is make it so that the damage can't 2 shot SCVs (45 hp), but can 2 shot drones and probes still (40 hp). Thus making all other races doing harassment (oracle, muta) worse, while making reapers and banshees (who now take three shots instead of two, HUGE) worse too. Yeah, real clean fix to the problem  .On July 09 2013 08:44 hli wrote: making TvP literally the same as WoL TvP, while PvT has gotten a massive buff in terms of mothership core, oracle, tempest. This statement would be correct if you didn't still have medivac boost, which in the hands of a Terran with some multitasking is stupidly hard to deal with. I don't want this to degrade into flaming, I just wanted to point out two flaws I saw in your post. | ||
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nachtkap
Germany197 Posts
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kaluro
Netherlands760 Posts
On July 09 2013 08:37 Gamegene wrote: this banshee change is just upsetting because it doesn't do anything for TvZ or TvP. because of the widow mine's existence the other races HAVE to have detection early, and unlike the marine stalker and queen has so many hit points enough to just ward away without too much trouble. it's a change that will strictly change TvT only and make it obnoxious. Banshees force map control and can be used against all-ins. Good luck taking a quick 3rd when your opponent opened up hellion -> banshee (a bit of a late WoL style). You'll have to get creep to that location and a few queens, or wait until hydralisks or mutalisks are out. Of course it also depends on the map, some have very distant 3rds, while others are right at the natural's doorstep. | ||
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