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On June 17 2013 06:03 Snowbear wrote:
Has anyone thought about the idea that speedprisms will make terran never being able to move out? If I move out --> DT drop + zealot warpin --> you need a serious amount of army to defend vs that.
Meanwhile the toss can expo. If I attack him, he can defend behind nexus cannons. If I camp, then we get into lategame, where protoss shines.
Any advice? I'm REALLY worried about this..
seven marines and a turret-> snipe prism.
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On June 17 2013 06:06 Millet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 06:03 Snowbear wrote:
Has anyone thought about the idea that speedprisms will make terran never being able to move out? If I move out --> DT drop + zealot warpin --> you need a serious amount of army to defend vs that.
Meanwhile the toss can expo. If I attack him, he can defend behind nexus cannons. If I camp, then we get into lategame, where protoss shines.
Any advice? I'm REALLY worried about this.. No, if you move out, warp ins will be exactly the same as they are now (not affected by speed) and turrets will still do the exact same thing as they do now. Nothing will change regarding your worries.
Except you won't be able to reliably kill said Prism by chasing him with a single Viking (Turrets are irrelevant since you have no minerals for complete Turrets rings, and Prisms can bypass the 1-2 you make), which does change everything.
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On June 17 2013 06:10 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 06:06 Millet wrote:On June 17 2013 06:03 Snowbear wrote:
Has anyone thought about the idea that speedprisms will make terran never being able to move out? If I move out --> DT drop + zealot warpin --> you need a serious amount of army to defend vs that.
Meanwhile the toss can expo. If I attack him, he can defend behind nexus cannons. If I camp, then we get into lategame, where protoss shines.
Any advice? I'm REALLY worried about this.. No, if you move out, warp ins will be exactly the same as they are now (not affected by speed) and turrets will still do the exact same thing as they do now. Nothing will change regarding your worries. Except you won't be able to reliably kill said Prism by chasing him with a single Viking (Turrets are irrelevant since you have no minerals for complete Turrets rings, and Prisms can bypass the 1-2 you make), which does change everything.
Yeah indeed. I've never been so worried about a buff as this one.
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Watching DH, I think they should leave the hellbats as they are.
Still go through with the banshee and the warp prism change.
(and then test some roach burrow movement and/or nydus changes - one can only dream  )
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HEY blizzard you watching Dreamhack?? how about nerfing hellbats some more??
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What I don't understand is that if they're saying "we want Terran to have more harass options" why does zerg have so few harass options? The only thing that i can do early is attack the front, which is retarded 90% of the time or just all in.
I would have been ok with hellbats as they are if they changed the attack pattern a la reavers, with the cooldown starting as soon as the unit is dropped.
The other changes are /meh. I foresee a lot more auto losses to cloaked banshees in my future.
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Talk about promoting cheesy play. If anything, all upgrades should cost more and should take more time, not the opposite..
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On June 17 2013 06:34 LeviathanDK wrote:
HEY blizzard you watching Dreamhack?? how about nerfing hellbats some more??
Not sure if serious. If you look at that Dreamhack Zerg has to be nerfed to the ground! All TvZs I watched Hellbats failed completely.
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On June 17 2013 08:04 Vault Boy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 06:34 LeviathanDK wrote:
HEY blizzard you watching Dreamhack?? how about nerfing hellbats some more?? Not sure if serious. If you look at that Dreamhack Zerg has to be nerfed to the ground! All TvZs I watched Hellbats failed completely.
lol. 4P/5T/7Z still in the race, with a start distribution of 38P/27T/62Z. Overall it looks rather good.
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Personally I never thought that the hellbat was the problem, but the high mobility of the medivac boost.
Besides if you nerf something because it is considered too strong then you do not need to buff something else. You only buff something else if you think that it will make the race overall weaker. In this case there is the upgrade cost and research time of preigniter to make hellbat drops as effective as before. Which is perfect is ideal since espcially TvT it is the timing when you get hellbat drops that was scary. To make the first drop weaker and not something that always made some damage to something that can potentially deal damage is the way to go. There is no other "equalizing" buff incured imo.
Sidenote, Hellion banshee anyone?
With that said the warp prism buff seem fine. I like that change when I am playing protoss and getting speed prism I always think that they are too slow. That they had same speed as viking when upgraded make no sense.
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i dont agree with the hellbat nerf. not only does it nerf drops but it nerfs any kind of early-mid game hellbat play which will make terran even more stagnant in the strategies they can choose to put pressure on.
new cloak change will be nice against z/p since they are pretty much worthless right now, but might make tvt a little more unstable(but im fine with that since hellbat is getting nerfed)
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I agree with everything except the decrease in research time for cloak(cost reduction is fine). Reducing the cost of the blue flame upgrade makes more sense but I guess they want to see more Banshees.
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Just found out that mines go through hardened shield... o.O is Wtf?
WTF
What's the point of immortal shields then? Holy crap. Is that a bug?
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On June 17 2013 10:36 Sabu113 wrote:
Just found out that mines go through hardened shield... o.O is Wtf?
WTF
What's the point of immortal shields then? Holy crap. Is that a bug?
it is not a bug. it bypasses hardened shields because the mine uses a spell, not an attack.
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On June 17 2013 10:40 MaxQT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 10:36 Sabu113 wrote:
Just found out that mines go through hardened shield... o.O is Wtf?
WTF
What's the point of immortal shields then? Holy crap. Is that a bug? it is not a bug. it bypasses hardened shields because the mine uses a spell, not an attack.
Thanks. It's kinda unintuitive considering that it's a simple smash unlike the ticks of storm or fungal. Holy crap. Did not realise that.
Don't know how I feel about it. hmn. No immortal mine clearing anyway.
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On June 17 2013 11:01 Sabu113 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 10:40 MaxQT wrote:On June 17 2013 10:36 Sabu113 wrote:
Just found out that mines go through hardened shield... o.O is Wtf?
WTF
What's the point of immortal shields then? Holy crap. Is that a bug? it is not a bug. it bypasses hardened shields because the mine uses a spell, not an attack. Thanks. It's kinda unintuitive considering that it's a simple smash unlike the ticks of storm or fungal. Holy crap. Did not realise that. Don't know how I feel about it. hmn. No immortal mine clearing anyway.
For what it's worth, the same is true if you nuke immortals. The nuclear launch doesn't get reduced to 10 damage, because Tactical Nuke is a spell, not an attack
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On June 17 2013 07:19 cerebralz wrote:
What I don't understand is that if they're saying "we want Terran to have more harass options" why does zerg have so few harass options? The only thing that i can do early is attack the front, which is retarded 90% of the time or just all in.
I would have been ok with hellbats as they are if they changed the attack pattern a la reavers, with the cooldown starting as soon as the unit is dropped.
The other changes are /meh. I foresee a lot more auto losses to cloaked banshees in my future.
They're also saying protoss lacks harass options, which is weird. They now have the phoenix, oracle, and blink stalkers, on top of the warp prism. If anything protoss has great harassment tools and poor front line units. Flat out, I've always considered stalkers and colossus to be pisspoor substitutes for dragoons and reavers. Stalkers cost more than marauders/roaches and do much less damage. Without the reaver, protoss is the only race that does not have a unit that can instantly neutralize large amounts of front line infantry like siege tanks and banelings can do. Psi storm is the closest thing they have to that, and psi storm was nerfed pretty hard in SC2 so it's easy to dodge.
So what happens is protoss can't ever push out until they've built enough colossus to one-shot or two-shot enemy infantry and when they do push out it's a big game of protect the colossus while it slowly deals out its damage.
Zerg has the opposite problem, really great front line units and poor harassment options. Aside from mutalisks how is Zerg supposed to harass a main base? Contaminate? lol? So really, they're going about this whole thing backwards.
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On June 17 2013 08:29 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 08:04 Vault Boy wrote:On June 17 2013 06:34 LeviathanDK wrote:
HEY blizzard you watching Dreamhack?? how about nerfing hellbats some more?? Not sure if serious. If you look at that Dreamhack Zerg has to be nerfed to the ground! All TvZs I watched Hellbats failed completely. lol. 4P/5T/7Z still in the race, with a start distribution of 38P/27T/62Z. Overall it looks rather good.
Your logic is terrible. If you have so many zergs they eliminate each other If you alot of 3 or 4 Zergs groups, obviously more Z get eliminated.
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On June 17 2013 12:23 BaronVonOwn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 07:19 cerebralz wrote:
What I don't understand is that if they're saying "we want Terran to have more harass options" why does zerg have so few harass options? The only thing that i can do early is attack the front, which is retarded 90% of the time or just all in.
I would have been ok with hellbats as they are if they changed the attack pattern a la reavers, with the cooldown starting as soon as the unit is dropped.
The other changes are /meh. I foresee a lot more auto losses to cloaked banshees in my future. They're also saying protoss lacks harass options, which is weird. They now have the phoenix, oracle, and blink stalkers, on top of the warp prism. If anything protoss has great harassment tools and poor front line units. Flat out, I've always considered stalkers and colossus to be pisspoor substitutes for dragoons and reavers. Stalkers cost more than marauders/roaches and do much less damage. Without the reaver, protoss is the only race that does not have a unit that can instantly neutralize large amounts of front line infantry like siege tanks and banelings can do. Psi storm is the closest thing they have to that, and psi storm was nerfed pretty hard in SC2 so it's easy to dodge. So what happens is protoss can't ever push out until they've built enough colossus to one-shot or two-shot enemy infantry and when they do push out it's a big game of protect the colossus while it slowly deals out its damage. Zerg has the opposite problem, really great front line units and poor harassment options. Aside from mutalisks how is Zerg supposed to harass a main base? Contaminate? lol? So really, they're going about this whole thing backwards.
I hope we will have Raptors for Zergling mutation!!! (in LOV of course)
Anyway, I think that is one of the characteristic of Zerg. It lacks the harassment that bypasses the defence (e.g. Muta and drops) so have to run into the main army (They are also meant to utilize burrow/burrows move according to the Starcraft cinematic scenes). I'm not saying that the current harrassment options for Zergs are good but I think it is their race design: Mass, cheap and relatively less functional units.
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On June 17 2013 12:23 BaronVonOwn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 07:19 cerebralz wrote:
What I don't understand is that if they're saying "we want Terran to have more harass options" why does zerg have so few harass options? The only thing that i can do early is attack the front, which is retarded 90% of the time or just all in.
I would have been ok with hellbats as they are if they changed the attack pattern a la reavers, with the cooldown starting as soon as the unit is dropped.
The other changes are /meh. I foresee a lot more auto losses to cloaked banshees in my future. They're also saying protoss lacks harass options, which is weird. They now have the phoenix, oracle, and blink stalkers, on top of the warp prism. If anything protoss has great harassment tools and poor front line units. Flat out, I've always considered stalkers and colossus to be pisspoor substitutes for dragoons and reavers. Stalkers cost more than marauders/roaches and do much less damage. Without the reaver, protoss is the only race that does not have a unit that can instantly neutralize large amounts of front line infantry like siege tanks and banelings can do. Psi storm is the closest thing they have to that, and psi storm was nerfed pretty hard in SC2 so it's easy to dodge. So what happens is protoss can't ever push out until they've built enough colossus to one-shot or two-shot enemy infantry and when they do push out it's a big game of protect the colossus while it slowly deals out its damage. Zerg has the opposite problem, really great front line units and poor harassment options. Aside from mutalisks how is Zerg supposed to harass a main base? Contaminate? lol? So really, they're going about this whole thing backwards.
Great harassment tools... What is this I don't even...
Phoenix = shut down by a single static defensive structure. Same with oracles. Blink stalkers have horrid DPS and are needed with your army to help defend colossi. Warp prisms are extremely slow, take time to phase in and out, and the units they harass with are nowhere near as strong as marines and marauders.
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EPT
