• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:43
CEST 08:43
KST 15:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
2v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature2Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy8uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event17Serral wins EWC 202549Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 202510
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up6LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments7[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder10
StarCraft 2
General
2v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Is there a way to see if 2 accounts=1 person? uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments SEL Masters #5 - Korea vs Russia (SC Evo) Enki Epic Series #5 - TaeJa vs Classic (SC Evo) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather
Brood War
General
Soma Explains: JaeDong's Double Muta Micro ASL 20 HYPE VIDEO! BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW AKA finder tool ASL20 Pre-season Tier List ranking!
Tourneys
Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches KCM 2025 Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Beyond All Reason [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI The year 2050
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Biochemical Cost of Gami…
TrAiDoS
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1945 users

OSL Ro32 groups + format - Page 35

Forum Index > SC2 General
778 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 33 34 35 36 37 39 Next All
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
June 14 2013 10:18 GMT
#681
On June 14 2013 17:31 ACrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2013 14:55 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 12:03 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 14 2013 11:05 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 10:47 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 14 2013 10:40 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 09:52 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 14 2013 09:21 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 09:17 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 14 2013 08:55 VManOfMana wrote:
[quote]

Then you'll probably figure out there is people that unlike you, have seen multiple times and can undersrand the merit of the OSL format.

We have seen BO1s all the time in SC2 including the last SC2 OSL. It isn't a matter of not getting the chance to see this format in action, it is just that we have and we disliked it.

On another note will GOM be streaming this along with OGN or are Tastosis sitting this one out?


How many times in the previous OSL was the better player knocked out through cheese in a Bo1? Gom will also be streaming with Tastosis.

Idk, it is a little hard to tell because we didn't know how good a lot of the Kespa players were. All I remember was the games were terrible.


Bo1 doesn't magically make games bad. That makes zero sense. By that logic, you could say that Bo7 is stupid because a lot of GSL finals have been bad.

It doesn't, they are just generally worse in my opinion (and apparently 91% of this forum).

I am obviously still going to give this season a chance, I am just really disappointed that we are three years into this game and some of the best players in the world could get eliminated in just two games from the most prestigious tournament there is (WCS KR).


Most people clearly aren't thinking about this rationally and are just going "Bo1 this is fucking stupid it's now COMPLETELY RANDOM who will make it through and everyone will just cheese and it's a coinflip."

Now your exaggerating. Obviously it won't be completely random and every game won't necessarily be a cheese. There will probably be more randomness and cheesing though.

Even if the games don't turn out to be coin flippy or cheesy I still think that it is very unforgiving to be possibly eliminated after just two loses. I don't want to see my favourite players eliminated because they had 2 games where they didn't play their best and I doubt anyone else does either.

Not to say this will make the entire RO32 crap. I am sure it will be great, I just think it would be better with a different format.


Not exaggerating at all. Some people have literally said that it's now completely random who'll make it through. What about last MLG? Not only was it lose 3 games and you're out, but you only played one person, so if you had a bad match up (Minigun vs Life?) you were just out right away. What about code A? If you lose two games then you're out, and if it's in the Ro48, then you have to go through the prelims, where again if you lose two games then you're out.

It's just the way some things are, and it's the way the OSL has always been. Nobody ever complained about it during Brood War, but since people are used to something different in Starcraft 2, they all freak out about it with absolutely no rationale beyond "It didn't work in 2011" and "The last OSL was bad".

You complain about people who exaggerate and then go on to say the bolded sentence yourself. Hypocrisy much? Especially since your only argument is "it's always been like this in BW", lol.

The rationale, as has been many times stated, is that a sequence of Bo1 makes the more skilled player somewhat more vulnerable to allins/cheese. Of course most of the time the more skilled player will make it through, but Bo1 greatly increases the chances for a cheeser to get through or a lesser player upsetting a championship candidate too easily. That wouldn't be too bad if it was just for some nostalgic Starleague, but this replaces basically the GSL S3, so of course we hold it to a higher standard than if it just was an OSL. You also have to consider that this acts as a qualifier for the next season of WCS, so their messup potentially affects the next season too. That's why a lot of us are upset at this and express their concerns...


Not only did I not complain about people who exaggerate, but that sentence wasn't an exaggeration...? What are you talking about?

You claim that a Bo1 instead of a Bo3 will greatly increase the chances for a cheeser/weaker player to get through. Where are your stats for this? From what I've seen, it'll maybe be a 10% difference. Incidentally, many people aren't even saying this; they simply angrily exclaim that it's bullshit, they hate OGN, it'll just be random who gets through, etc.

PS: responding to my argument that it's worked for 13 years with "lol" isn't particularly persuasive.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
sitromit
Profile Joined June 2011
7051 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-14 10:25:28
June 14 2013 10:23 GMT
#682
On June 14 2013 19:13 opterown wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2013 16:26 juicyjames wrote:
On June 14 2013 16:19 Arceus wrote:
look like Round of 32 will feature on three maps: Bel'Shir Vestige, Newkirk Remix & Whirlwind
It's said to reduce players' burden. Fuck

What? So I'm guessing the opening map will be Bel'Shir Vestige, the loser's/winner's match will be Newkirk, and the final match will be on Whirlwind?


Group A
(Z)Soulkey <Gwanghalli Beach> (Z)YugiOh
(T)Flash <Anaconda> (Z)RagnaroK
Winner/Loser match: Crux Bel'Shir Vestige SE
Consolidation: Crux Whirlwind

Group B
(T)INnoVation <Gwanghalli Beach> (Z)Savage
(P)Flying <Anaconda> (T)Bbyong
Winner/Loser match: Akilon Wastes
Consolidation: Crux Whirlwind

Group C
(P)sOs <Gwanghalli Beach> (Z)EffOrt
(Z)soO <Anaconda> (T)Maru
Winner/Loser match: Star Station
Consolidation: Crux Whirlwind

Group D
(Z)Symbol <Gwanghalli Beach> (P)Trap
(Z)Shine <Anaconda> (Z)Curious
Winner/Loser match: Newkirk Redevelopment District
Consolidation: Crux Whirlwind

Group E:
(Z)KangHo <Gwanghalli Beach> (P)JangBi
(Z)Life <Anaconda> (T)FanTaSy
Winner/Loser match: Crux Bel'Shir Vestige SE
Consolidation: Crux Whirlwind

Group F:
(Z)RorO <Gwanghalli Beach> (P)First
(Z)Leenock <Anaconda> (Z)hyvaa
Winner/Loser match: Akilon Wastes
Consolidation: Crux Whirlwind

Group G:
(P)PartinG <Gwanghalli Beach> (P)YongHwa
(P)Squirtle <Anaconda> (T)SuperNova
Winner/Loser match: Star Station
Consolidation: Crux Whirlwind

Group H:
(T)Bomber <Gwanghalli Beach> (P)Hurricane
(P)Rain <Anaconda> (T)KeeN
Winner/Loser match: Newkirk Redevelopment District
Consolidation: Crux Whirlwind

wait what about this?

Apparently there was some negative feedback about playing on new maps since it's bo1, so they decided to take them out for this round.
Elroi
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden5595 Posts
June 14 2013 10:25 GMT
#683
I love this format. Im happy they kept it. It's not guaranteed that the best players advance, but they should and upsets can be refreshing.
"To all eSports fans, I want to be remembered as a progamer who can make something out of nothing, and someone who always does his best. I think that is the right way of living, and I'm always doing my best to follow that." - Jaedong. /watch?v=jfghAzJqAp0
NightOfTheDead
Profile Joined August 2009
Lithuania1711 Posts
June 14 2013 10:29 GMT
#684
Symbol got far last GSL, cause he never met protoss. He got dismantled at the WCS finals. Let's hope his ZvP improved like A LOT.
_SpiRaL_
Profile Joined December 2012
Afghanistan1636 Posts
June 14 2013 10:30 GMT
#685
On June 14 2013 19:18 GolemMadness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2013 17:31 ACrow wrote:
On June 14 2013 14:55 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 12:03 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 14 2013 11:05 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 10:47 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 14 2013 10:40 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 09:52 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 14 2013 09:21 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 09:17 Emzeeshady wrote:
[quote]
We have seen BO1s all the time in SC2 including the last SC2 OSL. It isn't a matter of not getting the chance to see this format in action, it is just that we have and we disliked it.

On another note will GOM be streaming this along with OGN or are Tastosis sitting this one out?


How many times in the previous OSL was the better player knocked out through cheese in a Bo1? Gom will also be streaming with Tastosis.

Idk, it is a little hard to tell because we didn't know how good a lot of the Kespa players were. All I remember was the games were terrible.


Bo1 doesn't magically make games bad. That makes zero sense. By that logic, you could say that Bo7 is stupid because a lot of GSL finals have been bad.

It doesn't, they are just generally worse in my opinion (and apparently 91% of this forum).

I am obviously still going to give this season a chance, I am just really disappointed that we are three years into this game and some of the best players in the world could get eliminated in just two games from the most prestigious tournament there is (WCS KR).


Most people clearly aren't thinking about this rationally and are just going "Bo1 this is fucking stupid it's now COMPLETELY RANDOM who will make it through and everyone will just cheese and it's a coinflip."

Now your exaggerating. Obviously it won't be completely random and every game won't necessarily be a cheese. There will probably be more randomness and cheesing though.

Even if the games don't turn out to be coin flippy or cheesy I still think that it is very unforgiving to be possibly eliminated after just two loses. I don't want to see my favourite players eliminated because they had 2 games where they didn't play their best and I doubt anyone else does either.

Not to say this will make the entire RO32 crap. I am sure it will be great, I just think it would be better with a different format.


Not exaggerating at all. Some people have literally said that it's now completely random who'll make it through. What about last MLG? Not only was it lose 3 games and you're out, but you only played one person, so if you had a bad match up (Minigun vs Life?) you were just out right away. What about code A? If you lose two games then you're out, and if it's in the Ro48, then you have to go through the prelims, where again if you lose two games then you're out.

It's just the way some things are, and it's the way the OSL has always been. Nobody ever complained about it during Brood War, but since people are used to something different in Starcraft 2, they all freak out about it with absolutely no rationale beyond "It didn't work in 2011" and "The last OSL was bad".

You complain about people who exaggerate and then go on to say the bolded sentence yourself. Hypocrisy much? Especially since your only argument is "it's always been like this in BW", lol.

The rationale, as has been many times stated, is that a sequence of Bo1 makes the more skilled player somewhat more vulnerable to allins/cheese. Of course most of the time the more skilled player will make it through, but Bo1 greatly increases the chances for a cheeser to get through or a lesser player upsetting a championship candidate too easily. That wouldn't be too bad if it was just for some nostalgic Starleague, but this replaces basically the GSL S3, so of course we hold it to a higher standard than if it just was an OSL. You also have to consider that this acts as a qualifier for the next season of WCS, so their messup potentially affects the next season too. That's why a lot of us are upset at this and express their concerns...


Not only did I not complain about people who exaggerate, but that sentence wasn't an exaggeration...? What are you talking about?

You claim that a Bo1 instead of a Bo3 will greatly increase the chances for a cheeser/weaker player to get through. Where are your stats for this? From what I've seen, it'll maybe be a 10% difference. Incidentally, many people aren't even saying this; they simply angrily exclaim that it's bullshit, they hate OGN, it'll just be random who gets through, etc.

PS: responding to my argument that it's worked for 13 years with "lol" isn't particularly persuasive.


You want 'stats' that show that in a bo1 the weaker player is more likely to win than in a bo3? This doesnt make sense. It is obvious that in a single game as opposed to a bo series of games the weaker player has more chance to win. This is basic mathematics and akin to asking for 'stats' to show that 2+2 =4.
Red and yellow are all I see
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51462 Posts
June 14 2013 10:33 GMT
#686
On June 14 2013 19:23 sitromit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2013 19:13 opterown wrote:
On June 14 2013 16:26 juicyjames wrote:
On June 14 2013 16:19 Arceus wrote:
look like Round of 32 will feature on three maps: Bel'Shir Vestige, Newkirk Remix & Whirlwind
It's said to reduce players' burden. Fuck

What? So I'm guessing the opening map will be Bel'Shir Vestige, the loser's/winner's match will be Newkirk, and the final match will be on Whirlwind?


Group A
(Z)Soulkey <Gwanghalli Beach> (Z)YugiOh
(T)Flash <Anaconda> (Z)RagnaroK
Winner/Loser match: Crux Bel'Shir Vestige SE
Consolidation: Crux Whirlwind

Group B
(T)INnoVation <Gwanghalli Beach> (Z)Savage
(P)Flying <Anaconda> (T)Bbyong
Winner/Loser match: Akilon Wastes
Consolidation: Crux Whirlwind

Group C
(P)sOs <Gwanghalli Beach> (Z)EffOrt
(Z)soO <Anaconda> (T)Maru
Winner/Loser match: Star Station
Consolidation: Crux Whirlwind

Group D
(Z)Symbol <Gwanghalli Beach> (P)Trap
(Z)Shine <Anaconda> (Z)Curious
Winner/Loser match: Newkirk Redevelopment District
Consolidation: Crux Whirlwind

Group E:
(Z)KangHo <Gwanghalli Beach> (P)JangBi
(Z)Life <Anaconda> (T)FanTaSy
Winner/Loser match: Crux Bel'Shir Vestige SE
Consolidation: Crux Whirlwind

Group F:
(Z)RorO <Gwanghalli Beach> (P)First
(Z)Leenock <Anaconda> (Z)hyvaa
Winner/Loser match: Akilon Wastes
Consolidation: Crux Whirlwind

Group G:
(P)PartinG <Gwanghalli Beach> (P)YongHwa
(P)Squirtle <Anaconda> (T)SuperNova
Winner/Loser match: Star Station
Consolidation: Crux Whirlwind

Group H:
(T)Bomber <Gwanghalli Beach> (P)Hurricane
(P)Rain <Anaconda> (T)KeeN
Winner/Loser match: Newkirk Redevelopment District
Consolidation: Crux Whirlwind

wait what about this?

Apparently there was some negative feedback about playing on new maps since it's bo1, so they decided to take them out for this round.


Just to confirm this: http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=133246&db=issue&cate=&page=1&field=&kwrd=

Only ladder maps will be used for the Ro32, while the new OSL-exclusive maps will be introduced in the Ro16.
Not surprised, in the past, they have only used the KeSPA maps for the ODT stage and introduced the OMT maps once the Ro16 commenced.
Commentator
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-14 10:35:52
June 14 2013 10:35 GMT
#687
On June 14 2013 19:33 GTR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2013 19:23 sitromit wrote:
On June 14 2013 19:13 opterown wrote:
On June 14 2013 16:26 juicyjames wrote:
On June 14 2013 16:19 Arceus wrote:
look like Round of 32 will feature on three maps: Bel'Shir Vestige, Newkirk Remix & Whirlwind
It's said to reduce players' burden. Fuck

What? So I'm guessing the opening map will be Bel'Shir Vestige, the loser's/winner's match will be Newkirk, and the final match will be on Whirlwind?


Group A
(Z)Soulkey <Gwanghalli Beach> (Z)YugiOh
(T)Flash <Anaconda> (Z)RagnaroK
Winner/Loser match: Crux Bel'Shir Vestige SE
Consolidation: Crux Whirlwind

Group B
(T)INnoVation <Gwanghalli Beach> (Z)Savage
(P)Flying <Anaconda> (T)Bbyong
Winner/Loser match: Akilon Wastes
Consolidation: Crux Whirlwind

Group C
(P)sOs <Gwanghalli Beach> (Z)EffOrt
(Z)soO <Anaconda> (T)Maru
Winner/Loser match: Star Station
Consolidation: Crux Whirlwind

Group D
(Z)Symbol <Gwanghalli Beach> (P)Trap
(Z)Shine <Anaconda> (Z)Curious
Winner/Loser match: Newkirk Redevelopment District
Consolidation: Crux Whirlwind

Group E:
(Z)KangHo <Gwanghalli Beach> (P)JangBi
(Z)Life <Anaconda> (T)FanTaSy
Winner/Loser match: Crux Bel'Shir Vestige SE
Consolidation: Crux Whirlwind

Group F:
(Z)RorO <Gwanghalli Beach> (P)First
(Z)Leenock <Anaconda> (Z)hyvaa
Winner/Loser match: Akilon Wastes
Consolidation: Crux Whirlwind

Group G:
(P)PartinG <Gwanghalli Beach> (P)YongHwa
(P)Squirtle <Anaconda> (T)SuperNova
Winner/Loser match: Star Station
Consolidation: Crux Whirlwind

Group H:
(T)Bomber <Gwanghalli Beach> (P)Hurricane
(P)Rain <Anaconda> (T)KeeN
Winner/Loser match: Newkirk Redevelopment District
Consolidation: Crux Whirlwind

wait what about this?

Apparently there was some negative feedback about playing on new maps since it's bo1, so they decided to take them out for this round.


Just to confirm this: http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=133246&db=issue&cate=&page=1&field=&kwrd=

Only ladder maps will be used for the Ro32, while the new OSL-exclusive maps will be introduced in the Ro16.
Not surprised, in the past, they have only used the KeSPA maps for the ODT stage and introduced the OMT maps once the Ro16 commenced.

dammit i need to remake all my OPs ><

do we know the new map order
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50123 Posts
June 14 2013 10:53 GMT
#688
On June 14 2013 19:35 opterown wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2013 19:33 GTR wrote:
On June 14 2013 19:23 sitromit wrote:
On June 14 2013 19:13 opterown wrote:
On June 14 2013 16:26 juicyjames wrote:
On June 14 2013 16:19 Arceus wrote:
look like Round of 32 will feature on three maps: Bel'Shir Vestige, Newkirk Remix & Whirlwind
It's said to reduce players' burden. Fuck

What? So I'm guessing the opening map will be Bel'Shir Vestige, the loser's/winner's match will be Newkirk, and the final match will be on Whirlwind?


Group A
(Z)Soulkey <Gwanghalli Beach> (Z)YugiOh
(T)Flash <Anaconda> (Z)RagnaroK
Winner/Loser match: Crux Bel'Shir Vestige SE
Consolidation: Crux Whirlwind

Group B
(T)INnoVation <Gwanghalli Beach> (Z)Savage
(P)Flying <Anaconda> (T)Bbyong
Winner/Loser match: Akilon Wastes
Consolidation: Crux Whirlwind

Group C
(P)sOs <Gwanghalli Beach> (Z)EffOrt
(Z)soO <Anaconda> (T)Maru
Winner/Loser match: Star Station
Consolidation: Crux Whirlwind

Group D
(Z)Symbol <Gwanghalli Beach> (P)Trap
(Z)Shine <Anaconda> (Z)Curious
Winner/Loser match: Newkirk Redevelopment District
Consolidation: Crux Whirlwind

Group E:
(Z)KangHo <Gwanghalli Beach> (P)JangBi
(Z)Life <Anaconda> (T)FanTaSy
Winner/Loser match: Crux Bel'Shir Vestige SE
Consolidation: Crux Whirlwind

Group F:
(Z)RorO <Gwanghalli Beach> (P)First
(Z)Leenock <Anaconda> (Z)hyvaa
Winner/Loser match: Akilon Wastes
Consolidation: Crux Whirlwind

Group G:
(P)PartinG <Gwanghalli Beach> (P)YongHwa
(P)Squirtle <Anaconda> (T)SuperNova
Winner/Loser match: Star Station
Consolidation: Crux Whirlwind

Group H:
(T)Bomber <Gwanghalli Beach> (P)Hurricane
(P)Rain <Anaconda> (T)KeeN
Winner/Loser match: Newkirk Redevelopment District
Consolidation: Crux Whirlwind

wait what about this?

Apparently there was some negative feedback about playing on new maps since it's bo1, so they decided to take them out for this round.


Just to confirm this: http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=133246&db=issue&cate=&page=1&field=&kwrd=

Only ladder maps will be used for the Ro32, while the new OSL-exclusive maps will be introduced in the Ro16.
Not surprised, in the past, they have only used the KeSPA maps for the ODT stage and introduced the OMT maps once the Ro16 commenced.

dammit i need to remake all my OPs ><

do we know the new map order


Belshir vestiage
newkirk
whirlwind

I believe
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
ACrow
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6583 Posts
June 14 2013 11:16 GMT
#689
On June 14 2013 19:18 GolemMadness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2013 17:31 ACrow wrote:
On June 14 2013 14:55 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 12:03 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 14 2013 11:05 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 10:47 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 14 2013 10:40 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 09:52 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 14 2013 09:21 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 09:17 Emzeeshady wrote:
[quote]
We have seen BO1s all the time in SC2 including the last SC2 OSL. It isn't a matter of not getting the chance to see this format in action, it is just that we have and we disliked it.

On another note will GOM be streaming this along with OGN or are Tastosis sitting this one out?


How many times in the previous OSL was the better player knocked out through cheese in a Bo1? Gom will also be streaming with Tastosis.

Idk, it is a little hard to tell because we didn't know how good a lot of the Kespa players were. All I remember was the games were terrible.


Bo1 doesn't magically make games bad. That makes zero sense. By that logic, you could say that Bo7 is stupid because a lot of GSL finals have been bad.

It doesn't, they are just generally worse in my opinion (and apparently 91% of this forum).

I am obviously still going to give this season a chance, I am just really disappointed that we are three years into this game and some of the best players in the world could get eliminated in just two games from the most prestigious tournament there is (WCS KR).


Most people clearly aren't thinking about this rationally and are just going "Bo1 this is fucking stupid it's now COMPLETELY RANDOM who will make it through and everyone will just cheese and it's a coinflip."

Now your exaggerating. Obviously it won't be completely random and every game won't necessarily be a cheese. There will probably be more randomness and cheesing though.

Even if the games don't turn out to be coin flippy or cheesy I still think that it is very unforgiving to be possibly eliminated after just two loses. I don't want to see my favourite players eliminated because they had 2 games where they didn't play their best and I doubt anyone else does either.

Not to say this will make the entire RO32 crap. I am sure it will be great, I just think it would be better with a different format.


Not exaggerating at all. Some people have literally said that it's now completely random who'll make it through. What about last MLG? Not only was it lose 3 games and you're out, but you only played one person, so if you had a bad match up (Minigun vs Life?) you were just out right away. What about code A? If you lose two games then you're out, and if it's in the Ro48, then you have to go through the prelims, where again if you lose two games then you're out.

It's just the way some things are, and it's the way the OSL has always been. Nobody ever complained about it during Brood War, but since people are used to something different in Starcraft 2, they all freak out about it with absolutely no rationale beyond "It didn't work in 2011" and "The last OSL was bad".

You complain about people who exaggerate and then go on to say the bolded sentence yourself. Hypocrisy much? Especially since your only argument is "it's always been like this in BW", lol.

The rationale, as has been many times stated, is that a sequence of Bo1 makes the more skilled player somewhat more vulnerable to allins/cheese. Of course most of the time the more skilled player will make it through, but Bo1 greatly increases the chances for a cheeser to get through or a lesser player upsetting a championship candidate too easily. That wouldn't be too bad if it was just for some nostalgic Starleague, but this replaces basically the GSL S3, so of course we hold it to a higher standard than if it just was an OSL. You also have to consider that this acts as a qualifier for the next season of WCS, so their messup potentially affects the next season too. That's why a lot of us are upset at this and express their concerns...


Not only did I not complain about people who exaggerate, but that sentence wasn't an exaggeration...? What are you talking about?

You claim that a Bo1 instead of a Bo3 will greatly increase the chances for a cheeser/weaker player to get through. Where are your stats for this? From what I've seen, it'll maybe be a 10% difference. Incidentally, many people aren't even saying this; they simply angrily exclaim that it's bullshit, they hate OGN, it'll just be random who gets through, etc.

PS: responding to my argument that it's worked for 13 years with "lol" isn't particularly persuasive.

Sorry if the "lol" offended you, I edited it out I personally just find the line of argumentation of "we have always done it that way" or "it is tradition" never convincing at all (considering we are talking about completely different games).

What I meant is:
People complain that this will mean "complete randomness" (which is an exaggeration)
which you critize and go on to say that we critics "all freak out about it with absolutely no rationale" (which is also an exaggeration).
Here you are being hypocritical...

The ~10% came from an Aligulac estimation, which does not take the mind games and BO gambles of a BoX series into consideration at all, which makes it basically impossible to put a hard number on this. But even if we believe the ~10%, in a whole group with a losers bracket, so a sequence of events, this increases the likelyhood of an "undeserving" player (I'm aware this is a vague term, yet I think most will know what I mean) quite a bit, even though 10% doesn't sound like a lot. To me, it just means an unnecessary increase in volatility/randomness.

The only argument for the Bo1 that I buy into is the one by BlindRawr, that a TV production puts some more limits on it, regarding time etc. I don't have any experience with this, and here their 13 years of experience come into play, and we just have to trust them - yet still the fundamental flaws of Bo1 remain, which is all I'm critizising.
Get off my lawn, young punks
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
June 14 2013 11:17 GMT
#690
On June 14 2013 19:30 _SpiRaL_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2013 19:18 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 17:31 ACrow wrote:
On June 14 2013 14:55 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 12:03 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 14 2013 11:05 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 10:47 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 14 2013 10:40 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 09:52 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 14 2013 09:21 GolemMadness wrote:
[quote]

How many times in the previous OSL was the better player knocked out through cheese in a Bo1? Gom will also be streaming with Tastosis.

Idk, it is a little hard to tell because we didn't know how good a lot of the Kespa players were. All I remember was the games were terrible.


Bo1 doesn't magically make games bad. That makes zero sense. By that logic, you could say that Bo7 is stupid because a lot of GSL finals have been bad.

It doesn't, they are just generally worse in my opinion (and apparently 91% of this forum).

I am obviously still going to give this season a chance, I am just really disappointed that we are three years into this game and some of the best players in the world could get eliminated in just two games from the most prestigious tournament there is (WCS KR).


Most people clearly aren't thinking about this rationally and are just going "Bo1 this is fucking stupid it's now COMPLETELY RANDOM who will make it through and everyone will just cheese and it's a coinflip."

Now your exaggerating. Obviously it won't be completely random and every game won't necessarily be a cheese. There will probably be more randomness and cheesing though.

Even if the games don't turn out to be coin flippy or cheesy I still think that it is very unforgiving to be possibly eliminated after just two loses. I don't want to see my favourite players eliminated because they had 2 games where they didn't play their best and I doubt anyone else does either.

Not to say this will make the entire RO32 crap. I am sure it will be great, I just think it would be better with a different format.


Not exaggerating at all. Some people have literally said that it's now completely random who'll make it through. What about last MLG? Not only was it lose 3 games and you're out, but you only played one person, so if you had a bad match up (Minigun vs Life?) you were just out right away. What about code A? If you lose two games then you're out, and if it's in the Ro48, then you have to go through the prelims, where again if you lose two games then you're out.

It's just the way some things are, and it's the way the OSL has always been. Nobody ever complained about it during Brood War, but since people are used to something different in Starcraft 2, they all freak out about it with absolutely no rationale beyond "It didn't work in 2011" and "The last OSL was bad".

You complain about people who exaggerate and then go on to say the bolded sentence yourself. Hypocrisy much? Especially since your only argument is "it's always been like this in BW", lol.

The rationale, as has been many times stated, is that a sequence of Bo1 makes the more skilled player somewhat more vulnerable to allins/cheese. Of course most of the time the more skilled player will make it through, but Bo1 greatly increases the chances for a cheeser to get through or a lesser player upsetting a championship candidate too easily. That wouldn't be too bad if it was just for some nostalgic Starleague, but this replaces basically the GSL S3, so of course we hold it to a higher standard than if it just was an OSL. You also have to consider that this acts as a qualifier for the next season of WCS, so their messup potentially affects the next season too. That's why a lot of us are upset at this and express their concerns...


Not only did I not complain about people who exaggerate, but that sentence wasn't an exaggeration...? What are you talking about?

You claim that a Bo1 instead of a Bo3 will greatly increase the chances for a cheeser/weaker player to get through. Where are your stats for this? From what I've seen, it'll maybe be a 10% difference. Incidentally, many people aren't even saying this; they simply angrily exclaim that it's bullshit, they hate OGN, it'll just be random who gets through, etc.

PS: responding to my argument that it's worked for 13 years with "lol" isn't particularly persuasive.


You want 'stats' that show that in a bo1 the weaker player is more likely to win than in a bo3? This doesnt make sense. It is obvious that in a single game as opposed to a bo series of games the weaker player has more chance to win. This is basic mathematics and akin to asking for 'stats' to show that 2+2 =4.


No, I said I wanted stats to show that it greatly increases their chances. I said right there in my post that the weaker player has a better chance in a Bo1.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
June 14 2013 11:20 GMT
#691
On June 14 2013 20:17 GolemMadness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2013 19:30 _SpiRaL_ wrote:
On June 14 2013 19:18 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 17:31 ACrow wrote:
On June 14 2013 14:55 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 12:03 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 14 2013 11:05 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 10:47 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 14 2013 10:40 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 09:52 Emzeeshady wrote:
[quote]
Idk, it is a little hard to tell because we didn't know how good a lot of the Kespa players were. All I remember was the games were terrible.


Bo1 doesn't magically make games bad. That makes zero sense. By that logic, you could say that Bo7 is stupid because a lot of GSL finals have been bad.

It doesn't, they are just generally worse in my opinion (and apparently 91% of this forum).

I am obviously still going to give this season a chance, I am just really disappointed that we are three years into this game and some of the best players in the world could get eliminated in just two games from the most prestigious tournament there is (WCS KR).


Most people clearly aren't thinking about this rationally and are just going "Bo1 this is fucking stupid it's now COMPLETELY RANDOM who will make it through and everyone will just cheese and it's a coinflip."

Now your exaggerating. Obviously it won't be completely random and every game won't necessarily be a cheese. There will probably be more randomness and cheesing though.

Even if the games don't turn out to be coin flippy or cheesy I still think that it is very unforgiving to be possibly eliminated after just two loses. I don't want to see my favourite players eliminated because they had 2 games where they didn't play their best and I doubt anyone else does either.

Not to say this will make the entire RO32 crap. I am sure it will be great, I just think it would be better with a different format.


Not exaggerating at all. Some people have literally said that it's now completely random who'll make it through. What about last MLG? Not only was it lose 3 games and you're out, but you only played one person, so if you had a bad match up (Minigun vs Life?) you were just out right away. What about code A? If you lose two games then you're out, and if it's in the Ro48, then you have to go through the prelims, where again if you lose two games then you're out.

It's just the way some things are, and it's the way the OSL has always been. Nobody ever complained about it during Brood War, but since people are used to something different in Starcraft 2, they all freak out about it with absolutely no rationale beyond "It didn't work in 2011" and "The last OSL was bad".

You complain about people who exaggerate and then go on to say the bolded sentence yourself. Hypocrisy much? Especially since your only argument is "it's always been like this in BW", lol.

The rationale, as has been many times stated, is that a sequence of Bo1 makes the more skilled player somewhat more vulnerable to allins/cheese. Of course most of the time the more skilled player will make it through, but Bo1 greatly increases the chances for a cheeser to get through or a lesser player upsetting a championship candidate too easily. That wouldn't be too bad if it was just for some nostalgic Starleague, but this replaces basically the GSL S3, so of course we hold it to a higher standard than if it just was an OSL. You also have to consider that this acts as a qualifier for the next season of WCS, so their messup potentially affects the next season too. That's why a lot of us are upset at this and express their concerns...


Not only did I not complain about people who exaggerate, but that sentence wasn't an exaggeration...? What are you talking about?

You claim that a Bo1 instead of a Bo3 will greatly increase the chances for a cheeser/weaker player to get through. Where are your stats for this? From what I've seen, it'll maybe be a 10% difference. Incidentally, many people aren't even saying this; they simply angrily exclaim that it's bullshit, they hate OGN, it'll just be random who gets through, etc.

PS: responding to my argument that it's worked for 13 years with "lol" isn't particularly persuasive.


You want 'stats' that show that in a bo1 the weaker player is more likely to win than in a bo3? This doesnt make sense. It is obvious that in a single game as opposed to a bo series of games the weaker player has more chance to win. This is basic mathematics and akin to asking for 'stats' to show that 2+2 =4.


No, I said I wanted stats to show that it greatly increases their chances. I said right there in my post that the weaker player has a better chance in a Bo1.

well statistically, say player X has a 20% chance by cheese or otherwise to take a map against player Y
in a bo1 -> 20% chance to win. in a bo3 -> 10.4% chance to win (i think)
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
June 14 2013 11:37 GMT
#692
On June 14 2013 20:16 ACrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2013 19:18 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 17:31 ACrow wrote:
On June 14 2013 14:55 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 12:03 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 14 2013 11:05 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 10:47 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 14 2013 10:40 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 09:52 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 14 2013 09:21 GolemMadness wrote:
[quote]

How many times in the previous OSL was the better player knocked out through cheese in a Bo1? Gom will also be streaming with Tastosis.

Idk, it is a little hard to tell because we didn't know how good a lot of the Kespa players were. All I remember was the games were terrible.


Bo1 doesn't magically make games bad. That makes zero sense. By that logic, you could say that Bo7 is stupid because a lot of GSL finals have been bad.

It doesn't, they are just generally worse in my opinion (and apparently 91% of this forum).

I am obviously still going to give this season a chance, I am just really disappointed that we are three years into this game and some of the best players in the world could get eliminated in just two games from the most prestigious tournament there is (WCS KR).


Most people clearly aren't thinking about this rationally and are just going "Bo1 this is fucking stupid it's now COMPLETELY RANDOM who will make it through and everyone will just cheese and it's a coinflip."

Now your exaggerating. Obviously it won't be completely random and every game won't necessarily be a cheese. There will probably be more randomness and cheesing though.

Even if the games don't turn out to be coin flippy or cheesy I still think that it is very unforgiving to be possibly eliminated after just two loses. I don't want to see my favourite players eliminated because they had 2 games where they didn't play their best and I doubt anyone else does either.

Not to say this will make the entire RO32 crap. I am sure it will be great, I just think it would be better with a different format.


Not exaggerating at all. Some people have literally said that it's now completely random who'll make it through. What about last MLG? Not only was it lose 3 games and you're out, but you only played one person, so if you had a bad match up (Minigun vs Life?) you were just out right away. What about code A? If you lose two games then you're out, and if it's in the Ro48, then you have to go through the prelims, where again if you lose two games then you're out.

It's just the way some things are, and it's the way the OSL has always been. Nobody ever complained about it during Brood War, but since people are used to something different in Starcraft 2, they all freak out about it with absolutely no rationale beyond "It didn't work in 2011" and "The last OSL was bad".

You complain about people who exaggerate and then go on to say the bolded sentence yourself. Hypocrisy much? Especially since your only argument is "it's always been like this in BW", lol.

The rationale, as has been many times stated, is that a sequence of Bo1 makes the more skilled player somewhat more vulnerable to allins/cheese. Of course most of the time the more skilled player will make it through, but Bo1 greatly increases the chances for a cheeser to get through or a lesser player upsetting a championship candidate too easily. That wouldn't be too bad if it was just for some nostalgic Starleague, but this replaces basically the GSL S3, so of course we hold it to a higher standard than if it just was an OSL. You also have to consider that this acts as a qualifier for the next season of WCS, so their messup potentially affects the next season too. That's why a lot of us are upset at this and express their concerns...


Not only did I not complain about people who exaggerate, but that sentence wasn't an exaggeration...? What are you talking about?

You claim that a Bo1 instead of a Bo3 will greatly increase the chances for a cheeser/weaker player to get through. Where are your stats for this? From what I've seen, it'll maybe be a 10% difference. Incidentally, many people aren't even saying this; they simply angrily exclaim that it's bullshit, they hate OGN, it'll just be random who gets through, etc.

PS: responding to my argument that it's worked for 13 years with "lol" isn't particularly persuasive.

Sorry if the "lol" offended you, I edited it out I personally just find the line of argumentation of "we have always done it that way" or "it is tradition" never convincing at all (considering we are talking about completely different games).

What I meant is:
People complain that this will mean "complete randomness" (which is an exaggeration)
which you critize and go on to say that we critics "all freak out about it with absolutely no rationale" (which is also an exaggeration).
Here you are being hypocritical...

The ~10% came from an Aligulac estimation, which does not take the mind games and BO gambles of a BoX series into consideration at all, which makes it basically impossible to put a hard number on this. But even if we believe the ~10%, in a whole group with a losers bracket, so a sequence of events, this increases the likelyhood of an "undeserving" player (I'm aware this is a vague term, yet I think most will know what I mean) quite a bit, even though 10% doesn't sound like a lot. To me, it just means an unnecessary increase in volatility/randomness.

The only argument for the Bo1 that I buy into is the one by BlindRawr, that a TV production puts some more limits on it, regarding time etc. I don't have any experience with this, and here their 13 years of experience come into play, and we just have to trust them - yet still the fundamental flaws of Bo1 remain, which is all I'm critizising.


I obviously didn't mean that every single person is doing that, but I see a lot of people in this thread that are. Just a couple of examples:

Best of 1....need gtfo seriously.
What a joke that is fml. Thanks for ruining the RO32 OSL, i appreciate it. I won't be tuning in until the RO16, which will be a lottery.


it's bo1 format in the first round so it's completely pointless and quite frankly stupid to talk about.


I never said there's anything wrong with disliking the format or thinking that this gives the weaker player a better chance to make it through. The people I have a problem with are those who just rage at it and talk about how stupid and pointless the entire tournament is as a result.

I think that saying that that's the way they've always done the tournament is a perfectly legitimate argument. As has been said, the fact that it's a TV station instead of being broadcast solely through the internet means that there may be some time restraints, and if it's always worked fine for Brood War and it worked fine for the first Starcraft 2 OSL, why shouldn't it work fine this time as well? If it really does turn out badly, then ok, but people should at least wait to see how it goes before dismissing the entire thing just because the format is different.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
hzflank
Profile Joined August 2011
United Kingdom2991 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-14 11:59:08
June 14 2013 11:58 GMT
#693
On June 14 2013 19:18 GolemMadness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2013 17:31 ACrow wrote:
On June 14 2013 14:55 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 12:03 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 14 2013 11:05 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 10:47 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 14 2013 10:40 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 09:52 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 14 2013 09:21 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 09:17 Emzeeshady wrote:
[quote]
We have seen BO1s all the time in SC2 including the last SC2 OSL. It isn't a matter of not getting the chance to see this format in action, it is just that we have and we disliked it.

On another note will GOM be streaming this along with OGN or are Tastosis sitting this one out?


How many times in the previous OSL was the better player knocked out through cheese in a Bo1? Gom will also be streaming with Tastosis.

Idk, it is a little hard to tell because we didn't know how good a lot of the Kespa players were. All I remember was the games were terrible.


Bo1 doesn't magically make games bad. That makes zero sense. By that logic, you could say that Bo7 is stupid because a lot of GSL finals have been bad.

It doesn't, they are just generally worse in my opinion (and apparently 91% of this forum).

I am obviously still going to give this season a chance, I am just really disappointed that we are three years into this game and some of the best players in the world could get eliminated in just two games from the most prestigious tournament there is (WCS KR).


Most people clearly aren't thinking about this rationally and are just going "Bo1 this is fucking stupid it's now COMPLETELY RANDOM who will make it through and everyone will just cheese and it's a coinflip."

Now your exaggerating. Obviously it won't be completely random and every game won't necessarily be a cheese. There will probably be more randomness and cheesing though.

Even if the games don't turn out to be coin flippy or cheesy I still think that it is very unforgiving to be possibly eliminated after just two loses. I don't want to see my favourite players eliminated because they had 2 games where they didn't play their best and I doubt anyone else does either.

Not to say this will make the entire RO32 crap. I am sure it will be great, I just think it would be better with a different format.


Not exaggerating at all. Some people have literally said that it's now completely random who'll make it through. What about last MLG? Not only was it lose 3 games and you're out, but you only played one person, so if you had a bad match up (Minigun vs Life?) you were just out right away. What about code A? If you lose two games then you're out, and if it's in the Ro48, then you have to go through the prelims, where again if you lose two games then you're out.

It's just the way some things are, and it's the way the OSL has always been. Nobody ever complained about it during Brood War, but since people are used to something different in Starcraft 2, they all freak out about it with absolutely no rationale beyond "It didn't work in 2011" and "The last OSL was bad".

You complain about people who exaggerate and then go on to say the bolded sentence yourself. Hypocrisy much? Especially since your only argument is "it's always been like this in BW", lol.

The rationale, as has been many times stated, is that a sequence of Bo1 makes the more skilled player somewhat more vulnerable to allins/cheese. Of course most of the time the more skilled player will make it through, but Bo1 greatly increases the chances for a cheeser to get through or a lesser player upsetting a championship candidate too easily. That wouldn't be too bad if it was just for some nostalgic Starleague, but this replaces basically the GSL S3, so of course we hold it to a higher standard than if it just was an OSL. You also have to consider that this acts as a qualifier for the next season of WCS, so their messup potentially affects the next season too. That's why a lot of us are upset at this and express their concerns...


Not only did I not complain about people who exaggerate, but that sentence wasn't an exaggeration...? What are you talking about?

You claim that a Bo1 instead of a Bo3 will greatly increase the chances for a cheeser/weaker player to get through. Where are your stats for this? From what I've seen, it'll maybe be a 10% difference. Incidentally, many people aren't even saying this; they simply angrily exclaim that it's bullshit, they hate OGN, it'll just be random who gets through, etc.

PS: responding to my argument that it's worked for 13 years with "lol" isn't particularly persuasive.


You don't need stats, it is basic arithmetic. If a player only has a 20% chance to win a game, then he has a 20% chance to win a b01 but only a 10.4% chance to win a b03. Even at 60/40, the weaker player only has a 35.2% chance to win a b03. A bo3 always gives an advantage to the player who is more likely to win.
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28481 Posts
June 14 2013 12:02 GMT
#694
An other thing, besides increasing the possibility of an "undeserving" player winning against a "better" one, is lack of uniformity between the different leagues which could harm the recognizability of the WCS as a whole. One could argue though, that a solution to this problem is to just change all the other leagues to match the OSL.
+ Show Spoiler +
Please, don't kill me
I Protoss winner, could it be?
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
June 14 2013 12:10 GMT
#695
On June 14 2013 20:58 hzflank wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2013 19:18 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 17:31 ACrow wrote:
On June 14 2013 14:55 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 12:03 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 14 2013 11:05 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 10:47 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 14 2013 10:40 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 09:52 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 14 2013 09:21 GolemMadness wrote:
[quote]

How many times in the previous OSL was the better player knocked out through cheese in a Bo1? Gom will also be streaming with Tastosis.

Idk, it is a little hard to tell because we didn't know how good a lot of the Kespa players were. All I remember was the games were terrible.


Bo1 doesn't magically make games bad. That makes zero sense. By that logic, you could say that Bo7 is stupid because a lot of GSL finals have been bad.

It doesn't, they are just generally worse in my opinion (and apparently 91% of this forum).

I am obviously still going to give this season a chance, I am just really disappointed that we are three years into this game and some of the best players in the world could get eliminated in just two games from the most prestigious tournament there is (WCS KR).


Most people clearly aren't thinking about this rationally and are just going "Bo1 this is fucking stupid it's now COMPLETELY RANDOM who will make it through and everyone will just cheese and it's a coinflip."

Now your exaggerating. Obviously it won't be completely random and every game won't necessarily be a cheese. There will probably be more randomness and cheesing though.

Even if the games don't turn out to be coin flippy or cheesy I still think that it is very unforgiving to be possibly eliminated after just two loses. I don't want to see my favourite players eliminated because they had 2 games where they didn't play their best and I doubt anyone else does either.

Not to say this will make the entire RO32 crap. I am sure it will be great, I just think it would be better with a different format.


Not exaggerating at all. Some people have literally said that it's now completely random who'll make it through. What about last MLG? Not only was it lose 3 games and you're out, but you only played one person, so if you had a bad match up (Minigun vs Life?) you were just out right away. What about code A? If you lose two games then you're out, and if it's in the Ro48, then you have to go through the prelims, where again if you lose two games then you're out.

It's just the way some things are, and it's the way the OSL has always been. Nobody ever complained about it during Brood War, but since people are used to something different in Starcraft 2, they all freak out about it with absolutely no rationale beyond "It didn't work in 2011" and "The last OSL was bad".

You complain about people who exaggerate and then go on to say the bolded sentence yourself. Hypocrisy much? Especially since your only argument is "it's always been like this in BW", lol.

The rationale, as has been many times stated, is that a sequence of Bo1 makes the more skilled player somewhat more vulnerable to allins/cheese. Of course most of the time the more skilled player will make it through, but Bo1 greatly increases the chances for a cheeser to get through or a lesser player upsetting a championship candidate too easily. That wouldn't be too bad if it was just for some nostalgic Starleague, but this replaces basically the GSL S3, so of course we hold it to a higher standard than if it just was an OSL. You also have to consider that this acts as a qualifier for the next season of WCS, so their messup potentially affects the next season too. That's why a lot of us are upset at this and express their concerns...


Not only did I not complain about people who exaggerate, but that sentence wasn't an exaggeration...? What are you talking about?

You claim that a Bo1 instead of a Bo3 will greatly increase the chances for a cheeser/weaker player to get through. Where are your stats for this? From what I've seen, it'll maybe be a 10% difference. Incidentally, many people aren't even saying this; they simply angrily exclaim that it's bullshit, they hate OGN, it'll just be random who gets through, etc.

PS: responding to my argument that it's worked for 13 years with "lol" isn't particularly persuasive.


You don't need stats, it is basic arithmetic. If a player only has a 20% chance to win a game, then he has a 20% chance to win a b01 but only a 10.4% chance to win a b03. Even at 60/40, the weaker player only has a 35.2% chance to win a b03. A bo3 always gives an advantage to the player who is more likely to win.


Once again, obviously a Bo1 gives the weaker player a better chance to advance. I asked for proof that it GREATLY increases their chances.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
June 14 2013 12:13 GMT
#696
On June 14 2013 21:10 GolemMadness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2013 20:58 hzflank wrote:
On June 14 2013 19:18 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 17:31 ACrow wrote:
On June 14 2013 14:55 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 12:03 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 14 2013 11:05 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 10:47 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 14 2013 10:40 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 09:52 Emzeeshady wrote:
[quote]
Idk, it is a little hard to tell because we didn't know how good a lot of the Kespa players were. All I remember was the games were terrible.


Bo1 doesn't magically make games bad. That makes zero sense. By that logic, you could say that Bo7 is stupid because a lot of GSL finals have been bad.

It doesn't, they are just generally worse in my opinion (and apparently 91% of this forum).

I am obviously still going to give this season a chance, I am just really disappointed that we are three years into this game and some of the best players in the world could get eliminated in just two games from the most prestigious tournament there is (WCS KR).


Most people clearly aren't thinking about this rationally and are just going "Bo1 this is fucking stupid it's now COMPLETELY RANDOM who will make it through and everyone will just cheese and it's a coinflip."

Now your exaggerating. Obviously it won't be completely random and every game won't necessarily be a cheese. There will probably be more randomness and cheesing though.

Even if the games don't turn out to be coin flippy or cheesy I still think that it is very unforgiving to be possibly eliminated after just two loses. I don't want to see my favourite players eliminated because they had 2 games where they didn't play their best and I doubt anyone else does either.

Not to say this will make the entire RO32 crap. I am sure it will be great, I just think it would be better with a different format.


Not exaggerating at all. Some people have literally said that it's now completely random who'll make it through. What about last MLG? Not only was it lose 3 games and you're out, but you only played one person, so if you had a bad match up (Minigun vs Life?) you were just out right away. What about code A? If you lose two games then you're out, and if it's in the Ro48, then you have to go through the prelims, where again if you lose two games then you're out.

It's just the way some things are, and it's the way the OSL has always been. Nobody ever complained about it during Brood War, but since people are used to something different in Starcraft 2, they all freak out about it with absolutely no rationale beyond "It didn't work in 2011" and "The last OSL was bad".

You complain about people who exaggerate and then go on to say the bolded sentence yourself. Hypocrisy much? Especially since your only argument is "it's always been like this in BW", lol.

The rationale, as has been many times stated, is that a sequence of Bo1 makes the more skilled player somewhat more vulnerable to allins/cheese. Of course most of the time the more skilled player will make it through, but Bo1 greatly increases the chances for a cheeser to get through or a lesser player upsetting a championship candidate too easily. That wouldn't be too bad if it was just for some nostalgic Starleague, but this replaces basically the GSL S3, so of course we hold it to a higher standard than if it just was an OSL. You also have to consider that this acts as a qualifier for the next season of WCS, so their messup potentially affects the next season too. That's why a lot of us are upset at this and express their concerns...


Not only did I not complain about people who exaggerate, but that sentence wasn't an exaggeration...? What are you talking about?

You claim that a Bo1 instead of a Bo3 will greatly increase the chances for a cheeser/weaker player to get through. Where are your stats for this? From what I've seen, it'll maybe be a 10% difference. Incidentally, many people aren't even saying this; they simply angrily exclaim that it's bullshit, they hate OGN, it'll just be random who gets through, etc.

PS: responding to my argument that it's worked for 13 years with "lol" isn't particularly persuasive.


You don't need stats, it is basic arithmetic. If a player only has a 20% chance to win a game, then he has a 20% chance to win a b01 but only a 10.4% chance to win a b03. Even at 60/40, the weaker player only has a 35.2% chance to win a b03. A bo3 always gives an advantage to the player who is more likely to win.


Once again, obviously a Bo1 gives the weaker player a better chance to advance. I asked for proof that it GREATLY increases their chances.

a 80-20 split probably isn't too uncommon to have (e.g. i'd bet that bogus can probably beat shine 4/5 times) but doubling the chances to advance from 10% to 20% is pretty significant in my eyes. dno if you call that great or not though
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
corumjhaelen
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
France6884 Posts
June 14 2013 12:21 GMT
#697
On June 14 2013 21:13 opterown wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2013 21:10 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 20:58 hzflank wrote:
On June 14 2013 19:18 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 17:31 ACrow wrote:
On June 14 2013 14:55 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 12:03 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 14 2013 11:05 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 10:47 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 14 2013 10:40 GolemMadness wrote:
[quote]

Bo1 doesn't magically make games bad. That makes zero sense. By that logic, you could say that Bo7 is stupid because a lot of GSL finals have been bad.

It doesn't, they are just generally worse in my opinion (and apparently 91% of this forum).

I am obviously still going to give this season a chance, I am just really disappointed that we are three years into this game and some of the best players in the world could get eliminated in just two games from the most prestigious tournament there is (WCS KR).


Most people clearly aren't thinking about this rationally and are just going "Bo1 this is fucking stupid it's now COMPLETELY RANDOM who will make it through and everyone will just cheese and it's a coinflip."

Now your exaggerating. Obviously it won't be completely random and every game won't necessarily be a cheese. There will probably be more randomness and cheesing though.

Even if the games don't turn out to be coin flippy or cheesy I still think that it is very unforgiving to be possibly eliminated after just two loses. I don't want to see my favourite players eliminated because they had 2 games where they didn't play their best and I doubt anyone else does either.

Not to say this will make the entire RO32 crap. I am sure it will be great, I just think it would be better with a different format.


Not exaggerating at all. Some people have literally said that it's now completely random who'll make it through. What about last MLG? Not only was it lose 3 games and you're out, but you only played one person, so if you had a bad match up (Minigun vs Life?) you were just out right away. What about code A? If you lose two games then you're out, and if it's in the Ro48, then you have to go through the prelims, where again if you lose two games then you're out.

It's just the way some things are, and it's the way the OSL has always been. Nobody ever complained about it during Brood War, but since people are used to something different in Starcraft 2, they all freak out about it with absolutely no rationale beyond "It didn't work in 2011" and "The last OSL was bad".

You complain about people who exaggerate and then go on to say the bolded sentence yourself. Hypocrisy much? Especially since your only argument is "it's always been like this in BW", lol.

The rationale, as has been many times stated, is that a sequence of Bo1 makes the more skilled player somewhat more vulnerable to allins/cheese. Of course most of the time the more skilled player will make it through, but Bo1 greatly increases the chances for a cheeser to get through or a lesser player upsetting a championship candidate too easily. That wouldn't be too bad if it was just for some nostalgic Starleague, but this replaces basically the GSL S3, so of course we hold it to a higher standard than if it just was an OSL. You also have to consider that this acts as a qualifier for the next season of WCS, so their messup potentially affects the next season too. That's why a lot of us are upset at this and express their concerns...


Not only did I not complain about people who exaggerate, but that sentence wasn't an exaggeration...? What are you talking about?

You claim that a Bo1 instead of a Bo3 will greatly increase the chances for a cheeser/weaker player to get through. Where are your stats for this? From what I've seen, it'll maybe be a 10% difference. Incidentally, many people aren't even saying this; they simply angrily exclaim that it's bullshit, they hate OGN, it'll just be random who gets through, etc.

PS: responding to my argument that it's worked for 13 years with "lol" isn't particularly persuasive.


You don't need stats, it is basic arithmetic. If a player only has a 20% chance to win a game, then he has a 20% chance to win a b01 but only a 10.4% chance to win a b03. Even at 60/40, the weaker player only has a 35.2% chance to win a b03. A bo3 always gives an advantage to the player who is more likely to win.


Once again, obviously a Bo1 gives the weaker player a better chance to advance. I asked for proof that it GREATLY increases their chances.

a 80-20 split probably isn't too uncommon to have (e.g. i'd bet that bogus can probably beat shine 4/5 times) but doubling the chances to advance from 10% to 20% is pretty significant in my eyes. dno if you call that great or not though

Saying doubling is not very useful though : for the advantaged player, this is a 8/9th disadvantage, nothing to complain about, which number is more significant as a spectator ?
A more interesting but a bit more complicated thing to compute would be something like the average number of let's say supplementary top8 player that would be eliminated in the round of 32 with bo1s instead of a bo3s, using Aligulac ratings... I'd venture it wouldn't be much higher than 1.
‎numquam se plus agere quam nihil cum ageret, numquam minus solum esse quam cum solus esset
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
June 14 2013 12:29 GMT
#698
On June 14 2013 21:21 corumjhaelen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2013 21:13 opterown wrote:
On June 14 2013 21:10 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 20:58 hzflank wrote:
On June 14 2013 19:18 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 17:31 ACrow wrote:
On June 14 2013 14:55 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 12:03 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 14 2013 11:05 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 10:47 Emzeeshady wrote:
[quote]
It doesn't, they are just generally worse in my opinion (and apparently 91% of this forum).

I am obviously still going to give this season a chance, I am just really disappointed that we are three years into this game and some of the best players in the world could get eliminated in just two games from the most prestigious tournament there is (WCS KR).


Most people clearly aren't thinking about this rationally and are just going "Bo1 this is fucking stupid it's now COMPLETELY RANDOM who will make it through and everyone will just cheese and it's a coinflip."

Now your exaggerating. Obviously it won't be completely random and every game won't necessarily be a cheese. There will probably be more randomness and cheesing though.

Even if the games don't turn out to be coin flippy or cheesy I still think that it is very unforgiving to be possibly eliminated after just two loses. I don't want to see my favourite players eliminated because they had 2 games where they didn't play their best and I doubt anyone else does either.

Not to say this will make the entire RO32 crap. I am sure it will be great, I just think it would be better with a different format.


Not exaggerating at all. Some people have literally said that it's now completely random who'll make it through. What about last MLG? Not only was it lose 3 games and you're out, but you only played one person, so if you had a bad match up (Minigun vs Life?) you were just out right away. What about code A? If you lose two games then you're out, and if it's in the Ro48, then you have to go through the prelims, where again if you lose two games then you're out.

It's just the way some things are, and it's the way the OSL has always been. Nobody ever complained about it during Brood War, but since people are used to something different in Starcraft 2, they all freak out about it with absolutely no rationale beyond "It didn't work in 2011" and "The last OSL was bad".

You complain about people who exaggerate and then go on to say the bolded sentence yourself. Hypocrisy much? Especially since your only argument is "it's always been like this in BW", lol.

The rationale, as has been many times stated, is that a sequence of Bo1 makes the more skilled player somewhat more vulnerable to allins/cheese. Of course most of the time the more skilled player will make it through, but Bo1 greatly increases the chances for a cheeser to get through or a lesser player upsetting a championship candidate too easily. That wouldn't be too bad if it was just for some nostalgic Starleague, but this replaces basically the GSL S3, so of course we hold it to a higher standard than if it just was an OSL. You also have to consider that this acts as a qualifier for the next season of WCS, so their messup potentially affects the next season too. That's why a lot of us are upset at this and express their concerns...


Not only did I not complain about people who exaggerate, but that sentence wasn't an exaggeration...? What are you talking about?

You claim that a Bo1 instead of a Bo3 will greatly increase the chances for a cheeser/weaker player to get through. Where are your stats for this? From what I've seen, it'll maybe be a 10% difference. Incidentally, many people aren't even saying this; they simply angrily exclaim that it's bullshit, they hate OGN, it'll just be random who gets through, etc.

PS: responding to my argument that it's worked for 13 years with "lol" isn't particularly persuasive.


You don't need stats, it is basic arithmetic. If a player only has a 20% chance to win a game, then he has a 20% chance to win a b01 but only a 10.4% chance to win a b03. Even at 60/40, the weaker player only has a 35.2% chance to win a b03. A bo3 always gives an advantage to the player who is more likely to win.


Once again, obviously a Bo1 gives the weaker player a better chance to advance. I asked for proof that it GREATLY increases their chances.

a 80-20 split probably isn't too uncommon to have (e.g. i'd bet that bogus can probably beat shine 4/5 times) but doubling the chances to advance from 10% to 20% is pretty significant in my eyes. dno if you call that great or not though

Saying doubling is not very useful though : for the advantaged player, this is a 8/9th disadvantage, nothing to complain about, which number is more significant as a spectator ?
A more interesting but a bit more complicated thing to compute would be something like the average number of let's say supplementary top8 player that would be eliminated in the round of 32 with bo1s instead of a bo3s, using Aligulac ratings... I'd venture it wouldn't be much higher than 1.

doubling the chances means we will see double the upsets. granted, if we normally have 1-2, this only means we have 3-4. but 3-4 is quite a lot of upsets for a RO32 imo

taking a look at http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2013_WCS_Season_1_Korea_GSL/Code_S the differences that might have happened had we had BO1 RO32 instead of BO3 ->
creator would have beaten bomber twice
MKP would have beaten sOs
Maru would have beaten soulkey

so a few series did go LWW for the "better" player
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
corumjhaelen
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
France6884 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-14 12:53:10
June 14 2013 12:43 GMT
#699
On June 14 2013 21:29 opterown wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 14 2013 21:21 corumjhaelen wrote:
On June 14 2013 21:13 opterown wrote:
On June 14 2013 21:10 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 20:58 hzflank wrote:
On June 14 2013 19:18 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 17:31 ACrow wrote:
On June 14 2013 14:55 GolemMadness wrote:
On June 14 2013 12:03 Emzeeshady wrote:
On June 14 2013 11:05 GolemMadness wrote:
[quote]

Most people clearly aren't thinking about this rationally and are just going "Bo1 this is fucking stupid it's now COMPLETELY RANDOM who will make it through and everyone will just cheese and it's a coinflip."

Now your exaggerating. Obviously it won't be completely random and every game won't necessarily be a cheese. There will probably be more randomness and cheesing though.

Even if the games don't turn out to be coin flippy or cheesy I still think that it is very unforgiving to be possibly eliminated after just two loses. I don't want to see my favourite players eliminated because they had 2 games where they didn't play their best and I doubt anyone else does either.

Not to say this will make the entire RO32 crap. I am sure it will be great, I just think it would be better with a different format.


Not exaggerating at all. Some people have literally said that it's now completely random who'll make it through. What about last MLG? Not only was it lose 3 games and you're out, but you only played one person, so if you had a bad match up (Minigun vs Life?) you were just out right away. What about code A? If you lose two games then you're out, and if it's in the Ro48, then you have to go through the prelims, where again if you lose two games then you're out.

It's just the way some things are, and it's the way the OSL has always been. Nobody ever complained about it during Brood War, but since people are used to something different in Starcraft 2, they all freak out about it with absolutely no rationale beyond "It didn't work in 2011" and "The last OSL was bad".

You complain about people who exaggerate and then go on to say the bolded sentence yourself. Hypocrisy much? Especially since your only argument is "it's always been like this in BW", lol.

The rationale, as has been many times stated, is that a sequence of Bo1 makes the more skilled player somewhat more vulnerable to allins/cheese. Of course most of the time the more skilled player will make it through, but Bo1 greatly increases the chances for a cheeser to get through or a lesser player upsetting a championship candidate too easily. That wouldn't be too bad if it was just for some nostalgic Starleague, but this replaces basically the GSL S3, so of course we hold it to a higher standard than if it just was an OSL. You also have to consider that this acts as a qualifier for the next season of WCS, so their messup potentially affects the next season too. That's why a lot of us are upset at this and express their concerns...


Not only did I not complain about people who exaggerate, but that sentence wasn't an exaggeration...? What are you talking about?

You claim that a Bo1 instead of a Bo3 will greatly increase the chances for a cheeser/weaker player to get through. Where are your stats for this? From what I've seen, it'll maybe be a 10% difference. Incidentally, many people aren't even saying this; they simply angrily exclaim that it's bullshit, they hate OGN, it'll just be random who gets through, etc.

PS: responding to my argument that it's worked for 13 years with "lol" isn't particularly persuasive.


You don't need stats, it is basic arithmetic. If a player only has a 20% chance to win a game, then he has a 20% chance to win a b01 but only a 10.4% chance to win a b03. Even at 60/40, the weaker player only has a 35.2% chance to win a b03. A bo3 always gives an advantage to the player who is more likely to win.


Once again, obviously a Bo1 gives the weaker player a better chance to advance. I asked for proof that it GREATLY increases their chances.

a 80-20 split probably isn't too uncommon to have (e.g. i'd bet that bogus can probably beat shine 4/5 times) but doubling the chances to advance from 10% to 20% is pretty significant in my eyes. dno if you call that great or not though

Saying doubling is not very useful though : for the advantaged player, this is a 8/9th disadvantage, nothing to complain about, which number is more significant as a spectator ?
A more interesting but a bit more complicated thing to compute would be something like the average number of let's say supplementary top8 player that would be eliminated in the round of 32 with bo1s instead of a bo3s, using Aligulac ratings... I'd venture it wouldn't be much higher than 1.

doubling the chances means we will see double the upsets. granted, if we normally have 1-2, this only means we have 3-4. but 3-4 is quite a lot of upsets for a RO32 imo

taking a look at http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2013_WCS_Season_1_Korea_GSL/Code_S the differences that might have happened had we had BO1 RO32 instead of BO3 ->
creator would have beaten bomber twice
MKP would have beaten sOs
Maru would have beaten soulkey

so a few series did go LWW for the "better" player

No ? This is a group stage...
Edit : you need to account for the fact that it's not single elim, and not take an extreme case but an average...
‎numquam se plus agere quam nihil cum ageret, numquam minus solum esse quam cum solus esset
N.geNuity
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States5112 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-14 13:00:59
June 14 2013 12:50 GMT
#700
What are the key differences between the KR, EU, and NA leagues?

Our goal has been to make the leagues as identical as possible in terms of structure, based on the GSL model. As a result of working with different league partners, there will be minor format differences that arise based on the legacy of a particular league.


zizi yO :/
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/8569308646

though bo1 is a little silly for sc2 since it doesn't have as good balance; but mainly because its been the standard for a while and a consolodated global qualifying event should try to have most similar standards

balance wise bo1 mainly a problem in zvz in bw but you'd need like a bo5 to start hitting real balance on that, save for some jvz or the difference in players' confidence on tv. they're different games, what works for bw doesn't in sc2

edit- also, although bo1 isn't really bad (people are being dumb), the entire seed system works differently compared to bw. top 4 previous osl seeded right into ro16, and hypothetically (from tournament organization viewpoint) those are top 4 players in the world or close to it. The "better player" was automatically in the ro16.

iu, seungah, yura, taeyeon, hyosung, lizzy, suji, sojin, jia, ji eun, eunji, soya, younha, jiyeon, fiestar, sinb, jung myung hoon godtier. BW FOREVERR
Prev 1 33 34 35 36 37 39 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 17m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 247
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 498
ggaemo 402
Leta 236
Mong 172
Aegong 81
NaDa 72
Hm[arnc] 27
ajuk12(nOOB) 15
ivOry 0
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm141
League of Legends
JimRising 680
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K885
Super Smash Bros
Westballz29
Other Games
tarik_tv11302
WinterStarcraft681
kaitlyn20
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1043
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 26
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH387
• practicex 39
• Light_VIP 14
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV467
• lizZardDota243
League of Legends
• Stunt1226
Other Games
• Scarra2323
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3h 17m
WardiTV Summer Champion…
4h 17m
SC Evo League
5h 17m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
8h 17m
BSL Team Wars
12h 17m
Team Dewalt vs Team Bonyth
Afreeca Starleague
1d 3h
Sharp vs Ample
Larva vs Stork
Wardi Open
1d 4h
RotterdaM Event
1d 9h
Replay Cast
1d 17h
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
JyJ vs TY
Bisu vs Speed
WardiTV Summer Champion…
2 days
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Mini vs TBD
Soma vs sSak
WardiTV Summer Champion…
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
LiuLi Cup
5 days
BSL Team Wars
5 days
Team Hawk vs Team Dewalt
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
SC Evo League
6 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
6 days
[BSL 2025] Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-08-13
FEL Cracow 2025
CC Div. A S7

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 20
CSLAN 3
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.