EPTOSL Ro32 groups + format - Page 33
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edgeOut
United States945 Posts
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On June 14 2013 08:59 edgeOut wrote: Bo3 gives you boring games, BO1 no matter good or bad, will be exciting. Will love to see some big names get knocked out early. It's also more impressive to consistently win a bunch of Bo1 People praise those types of players all the time, but they call them Ladder Heroes. | ||
Jer99
Canada8159 Posts
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Kal_rA
United States2925 Posts
On June 13 2013 17:01 Ragnarork wrote: Flash | FantaSy ? Welp, it's happening right now in the PL, might better have a peek then ! Yup.. And yup haha | ||
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
On June 14 2013 09:17 Emzeeshady wrote: We have seen BO1s all the time in SC2 including the last SC2 OSL. It isn't a matter of not getting the chance to see this format in action, it is just that we have and we disliked it. On another note will GOM be streaming this along with OGN or are Tastosis sitting this one out? How many times in the previous OSL was the better player knocked out through cheese in a Bo1? Gom will also be streaming with Tastosis. | ||
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
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fuzzylogic44
Canada2633 Posts
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
On June 14 2013 09:52 Emzeeshady wrote: Idk, it is a little hard to tell because we didn't know how good a lot of the Kespa players were. All I remember was the games were terrible. Bo1 doesn't magically make games bad. That makes zero sense. By that logic, you could say that Bo7 is stupid because a lot of GSL finals have been bad. | ||
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
On June 14 2013 10:47 Emzeeshady wrote: It doesn't, they are just generally worse in my opinion (and apparently 91% of this forum). I am obviously still going to give this season a chance, I am just really disappointed that we are three years into this game and some of the best players in the world could get eliminated in just two games from the most prestigious tournament there is (WCS KR). Most people clearly aren't thinking about this rationally and are just going "Bo1 this is fucking stupid it's now COMPLETELY RANDOM who will make it through and everyone will just cheese and it's a coinflip." | ||
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Gorribal
Canada186 Posts
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lichter
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Player B: "Hah, this Player A guy is a chump. No way he can beat me in a macro game. I'll just play super safe from cheese and beat him with my superior everything else." Player A: "But Player B probably knows I'm going to cheese him! He'll expect it and play super safe. All ins probably won't work either. I should just play incredibly greedy and try to use a mid game economic advantage to win this since he is so afraid of cheese." Player B: "Hmmm, Player A will probably think I'll play super safe and go for a fast double expand to punish my super safe build. I should turn the tides on him and play super aggressive and punish him for thinking he can get away with a greedy build against me." Player A: "Wait, Player B might know what I'm up to and kill me while I build my economy. I should just play safe, scout properly, and try my best..?" Player B: "But what if Player A prepares well? My all in won't work and I'll have thrown away the game. I should just play safe and scout properly." --- All this talk of cheese being prominent in Bo1's, I hope you have some stats to show that it's true. Proleague doesn't count because while games between individual players are Bo1, the entire match is a Bo7. The only reason it's logical and safe to throw in cheese is because it's a long series, and it's possible to recuperate from a failed cheese. Easy win or quick loss, either way it's still possible to win. In a Bo1 that isn't the case; lose that game and you're out. The above shows the kind of mind games involved in Bo1, and it's a lot more complex than "he's better, I should cheese him". If low level chumps like us can figure out that we should cheese, don't you think the pros know that too? The argument that Bo1's have more cheese because it gives lesser players a bigger chance of winning fails to take into consideration the nature of a Bo1 and the mind games involved in it. Yes, cheese does give the lesser player a higher chance of winning compared to a standard game, but that is assuming that a standard game will be played by the better player (standard here includes standard scouting patterns that will often miss proxy locations). Best of Ones are so precious that taking a risk either way (going for cheese or not scouting comprehensively) weighs more than in a Best of Three. Some players may be worse than others, but they are all still pros and take these mind games into consideration. So until someone shows some numbers on how often cheese occurs in a Best of One (not counting Proleague, as I explained above), insisting that it promotes cheese is purely conjecture. | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50584 Posts
On June 14 2013 09:00 Thieving Magpie wrote: It's also more impressive to consistently win a bunch of Bo1 People praise those types of players all the time, but they call them Ladder Heroes. its a shame that you think that, I'm sure you feel the same way about players who consistently do well in proleague/GSTL but cannot make it far in individual leagues. | ||
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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Comogury
United States412 Posts
On June 14 2013 12:03 Emzeeshady wrote: thats just dumb. Not being able to grab wins on any given day shows their weakness. The best players are the strongest mentally. There isn't any excuse for not being able to perform unless they are physically limited by illness or broken arm or whatever. There are some things like deaths of loved ones that can affect players, but for everything else they need to be able to get past it. These people are professionals. If they can't deal with it, then they should look into a new career or stay a practice partner. Now your exaggerating. Obviously it won't be completely random and every game won't necessarily be a cheese. There will probably be more randomness and cheesing though. Even if the games don't turn out to be coin flippy or cheesy I still think that it is very unforgiving to be possibly eliminated after just two loses. I don't want to see my favourite players eliminated because they had 2 games where they didn't play their best and I doubt anyone else does either. Not to say this will make the entire RO32 crap. I am sure it will be great, I just think it would be better with a different format. I'm not saying it doesn't suck when a favorite didn't win, but I won't blame the format if it is the player's inability to play his best is what caused him to lose. Has there been any player reaction to the format? I am interested in how the view Bo1 series. | ||
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Zenbrez
Canada5973 Posts
On June 14 2013 12:26 Comogury wrote: thats just dumb. Not being able to grab wins on any given day shows their weakness. The best players are the strongest mentally. There isn't any excuse for not being able to perform unless they are physically limited by illness or broken arm or whatever. There are some things like deaths of loved ones that can affect players, but for everything else they need to be able to get past it. These people are professionals. If they can't deal with it, then they should look into a new career or stay a practice partner. I'm not saying it doesn't suck when a favorite didn't win, but I won't blame the format if it is the player's inability to play his best is what caused him to lose. Has there been any player reaction to the format? I am interested in how the view Bo1 series. Only thing I've seen was Fantasy's interview from last night, he commented on it and said he prefers it because it'll give him a better chance at beating Life (only need to win 1 game instead of 2) | ||
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usethis2
2164 Posts
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usethis2
2164 Posts
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