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On June 13 2013 01:09 TaKeTV wrote:
What will happen now?
• Karont3 will went to the last Spot of the league, regardless of their score.
• Every new clanwar will result in a defwin (5-0) for the other team.
For real ? So you kick a team out of the league, but all the previous results still count in ? Rules seems to be a complete mess in ATC right now. I don't even remember any tournament where the result of a forfeited player/team weren't nullified after his forfeit.
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On June 13 2013 02:42 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 02:22 SinCitta wrote:On June 13 2013 01:55 Lorch wrote:On June 13 2013 01:20 DjHorsi wrote:
Not even a statement about why Karonte was told 3 times that it is okay.. Take would have to be mentally retarded to make a statement on that. What is he supposed to say? Yeah our internal admin communication sucks? Or "hey it's taketv remember that one hsc where we forgot the rules?". Besides a sundance "i get it", there is nothing take can say that doesn't let his company (taketv) look unprofessional as fuck. Something like "We gave wrong information to Ryo and are sorry for the troubles he went through in vain as a result. Steps have been taken that this won't happen again. We apologize to him, the players and the fans." -- By the way, it's probably not TaKe that issued the statement. It's the account "TakeTv," not "TaKeSen". TaKe is busy organizing the Homestory Cup. -- For all the others giving examples of player changes in the ATC. That's not really the controversial part of the conversation anymore. VortiX and LucifroN to mouz, StarDust as a Joker to Quantic, Kane to ROOT and probably some others as well. Whether player changes were allowed or not wasn't really the problem. The problem from the official side was that the former Karont3 wasn't recognized as a team anymore, independent of who COULD play or who can be transferred. Who did Kane play for before he switched to ROOT in the ATC? If you cannot abide by your own rules from the start then I mean come on man. We even had rules for this kind of stuff in WGTour when players switched. If the rule is rosters are frozen for the remainder of the tournament then it should stick. As for the official statement. They should have a rule for teams that disband and that should have been stated clearly to every party involved.
Kane played for Pulse before he joined ROOT. Pulse participated in the qualifiers.
Player transfers are allowed by admin exception as Nazgul cited. It's a bad rule (because of admin arbitrariness), yes.
Again, they did not allow player transfers to Karont3 because they didn't consider it a team anymore. If they created a new team (with sponsors, website and such) as a successor, I guess they could have played on. But the players were already going into different directions.
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On June 13 2013 02:51 SinCitta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 02:42 StarStruck wrote:On June 13 2013 02:22 SinCitta wrote:On June 13 2013 01:55 Lorch wrote:On June 13 2013 01:20 DjHorsi wrote:
Not even a statement about why Karonte was told 3 times that it is okay.. Take would have to be mentally retarded to make a statement on that. What is he supposed to say? Yeah our internal admin communication sucks? Or "hey it's taketv remember that one hsc where we forgot the rules?". Besides a sundance "i get it", there is nothing take can say that doesn't let his company (taketv) look unprofessional as fuck. Something like "We gave wrong information to Ryo and are sorry for the troubles he went through in vain as a result. Steps have been taken that this won't happen again. We apologize to him, the players and the fans." -- By the way, it's probably not TaKe that issued the statement. It's the account "TakeTv," not "TaKeSen". TaKe is busy organizing the Homestory Cup. -- For all the others giving examples of player changes in the ATC. That's not really the controversial part of the conversation anymore. VortiX and LucifroN to mouz, StarDust as a Joker to Quantic, Kane to ROOT and probably some others as well. Whether player changes were allowed or not wasn't really the problem. The problem from the official side was that the former Karont3 wasn't recognized as a team anymore, independent of who COULD play or who can be transferred. Who did Kane play for before he switched to ROOT in the ATC? If you cannot abide by your own rules from the start then I mean come on man. We even had rules for this kind of stuff in WGTour when players switched. If the rule is rosters are frozen for the remainder of the tournament then it should stick. As for the official statement. They should have a rule for teams that disband and that should have been stated clearly to every party involved. Kane played for Pulse before he joined ROOT. Pulse participated in the qualifiers. Player transfers are allowed by admin exception as Nazgul cited. It's a bad rule (because of admin arbitrariness), yes. Again, they did not allow player transfers to Karont3 because they didn't consider it a team anymore. If they created a new team (with sponsors, website and such) as a successor, I guess they could have played on. But the players were already going into different directions.
That's right!
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I think Take simply took the right call.
The only real problem in these rules is the one regarding the arbitrary power of the admin to take decisions on his own, since there is no real rule to cover it. Well it's quite obvious this lack of "rules" on this matter is crucial.
But apart from that, there is no other problem. The principle of the solution is clear.
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On June 13 2013 03:23 TaKeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 02:51 SinCitta wrote:On June 13 2013 02:42 StarStruck wrote:On June 13 2013 02:22 SinCitta wrote:On June 13 2013 01:55 Lorch wrote:On June 13 2013 01:20 DjHorsi wrote:
Not even a statement about why Karonte was told 3 times that it is okay.. Take would have to be mentally retarded to make a statement on that. What is he supposed to say? Yeah our internal admin communication sucks? Or "hey it's taketv remember that one hsc where we forgot the rules?". Besides a sundance "i get it", there is nothing take can say that doesn't let his company (taketv) look unprofessional as fuck. Something like "We gave wrong information to Ryo and are sorry for the troubles he went through in vain as a result. Steps have been taken that this won't happen again. We apologize to him, the players and the fans." -- By the way, it's probably not TaKe that issued the statement. It's the account "TakeTv," not "TaKeSen". TaKe is busy organizing the Homestory Cup. -- For all the others giving examples of player changes in the ATC. That's not really the controversial part of the conversation anymore. VortiX and LucifroN to mouz, StarDust as a Joker to Quantic, Kane to ROOT and probably some others as well. Whether player changes were allowed or not wasn't really the problem. The problem from the official side was that the former Karont3 wasn't recognized as a team anymore, independent of who COULD play or who can be transferred. Who did Kane play for before he switched to ROOT in the ATC? If you cannot abide by your own rules from the start then I mean come on man. We even had rules for this kind of stuff in WGTour when players switched. If the rule is rosters are frozen for the remainder of the tournament then it should stick. As for the official statement. They should have a rule for teams that disband and that should have been stated clearly to every party involved. Kane played for Pulse before he joined ROOT. Pulse participated in the qualifiers. Player transfers are allowed by admin exception as Nazgul cited. It's a bad rule (because of admin arbitrariness), yes. Again, they did not allow player transfers to Karont3 because they didn't consider it a team anymore. If they created a new team (with sponsors, website and such) as a successor, I guess they could have played on. But the players were already going into different directions. That's right!
That's a very bad rule and that doesn't address the other problems I found with your system either. If the admin had simply said what I said earlier which is similar to what this chap has said then there would have been issue with regards to this issue. However, I found a whole whack of issues that sort of mess everything up when it comes to your mandate with the ATC. ~_~
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On June 13 2013 03:48 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 03:23 TaKeTV wrote:On June 13 2013 02:51 SinCitta wrote:On June 13 2013 02:42 StarStruck wrote:On June 13 2013 02:22 SinCitta wrote:On June 13 2013 01:55 Lorch wrote:On June 13 2013 01:20 DjHorsi wrote:
Not even a statement about why Karonte was told 3 times that it is okay.. Take would have to be mentally retarded to make a statement on that. What is he supposed to say? Yeah our internal admin communication sucks? Or "hey it's taketv remember that one hsc where we forgot the rules?". Besides a sundance "i get it", there is nothing take can say that doesn't let his company (taketv) look unprofessional as fuck. Something like "We gave wrong information to Ryo and are sorry for the troubles he went through in vain as a result. Steps have been taken that this won't happen again. We apologize to him, the players and the fans." -- By the way, it's probably not TaKe that issued the statement. It's the account "TakeTv," not "TaKeSen". TaKe is busy organizing the Homestory Cup. -- For all the others giving examples of player changes in the ATC. That's not really the controversial part of the conversation anymore. VortiX and LucifroN to mouz, StarDust as a Joker to Quantic, Kane to ROOT and probably some others as well. Whether player changes were allowed or not wasn't really the problem. The problem from the official side was that the former Karont3 wasn't recognized as a team anymore, independent of who COULD play or who can be transferred. Who did Kane play for before he switched to ROOT in the ATC? If you cannot abide by your own rules from the start then I mean come on man. We even had rules for this kind of stuff in WGTour when players switched. If the rule is rosters are frozen for the remainder of the tournament then it should stick. As for the official statement. They should have a rule for teams that disband and that should have been stated clearly to every party involved. Kane played for Pulse before he joined ROOT. Pulse participated in the qualifiers. Player transfers are allowed by admin exception as Nazgul cited. It's a bad rule (because of admin arbitrariness), yes. Again, they did not allow player transfers to Karont3 because they didn't consider it a team anymore. If they created a new team (with sponsors, website and such) as a successor, I guess they could have played on. But the players were already going into different directions. That's right! That's a very bad rule and that doesn't address the other problems I found with your system either. If the admin had simply said what I said earlier which is similar to what this chap has said then there would have been issue with regards to this issue. However, I found a whole whack of issues that sort of mess everything up when it comes to your mandate with the ATC. ~_~
It sort of a weird thing to plan for and rules can't address ever situation perfectly. I mean, how you do make a rule for:
"What if a team qualifies and plays, but half way through they disband and a bunch of their players leave. But the rest of their players want to stay on as a "team", but they are all free agents and they want to pull in a few other players from other teams to fill out the roster. None of these players are going to become a new "team", they just want to finish out the season under the same banner. Should we have a rule for that?"
I think playing it by ear is better for this one and just making the calls as they come in, rather than trying to make rules that address every possible thing that could happen. Overly specific rules just end up screwing people over.
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On June 13 2013 02:01 leova wrote:
double standards - that really says it all
I appreciate your response TaKe, but you just said the exact same things that's been said before, without addressing the real issues
1) The concept of an "ideal team" is bogus - mouz isn't the same team they entered the tourney with, and the players that ENTERED A TOURNAMENT AND WON should be allowed to keep playing!
2) Minimum players is 4, they had 3 and could add 1(Ryo) - that's 4!
3) Saying that someone isn't good enough to participate in your league, insulting them by saying they would embarrass the tourney/team/themselves - you should be ashamed! To disrespect someone like that is ridiculous, especially a situation like this
It isn't bogus, mouz is the same..they just recruited two players and removed one. Karont3 disbanded their entire lineup. Two players went to mouz, one player went to complexity, one was teamless, and one was the joker. The explanation makes perfect sense. It's not a team, it's just players playing together. Karont3 could have not disbanded their division, could have held on to LoLvsxD and viPro, and actually recruit new players to their team, but they didn't they disbanded the SC2 division.
They never said they weren't good enough.
Although I do believe they should apologise for their mismanagement of the situation.
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In my opinion TakeTV just falling apart a little bit. Take too busy by playing ladder as well as planning the new HSC...
And other people at TakeTV not that experienced by managing tournements.
Take even has no time for casting- nowadays always some other "new" caster cast instead of him (
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On June 13 2013 05:57 DjHorsi wrote:In my opinion TakeTV just falling apart a little bit. Take too busy by playing ladder as well as planning the new HSC... And other people at TakeTV not that experienced by managing tournements. Take even has no time for casting- nowadays always some other "new" caster cast instead of him (
Well the only way you get experience is by doing it and making mistakes along the way. And your opinion of Take's work ethic is your own, but I don't see anyone else running events at nearly the scale that he is. I think you might have unreasonable standards for what is being done.
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Are vortix and lucifron aloud to play for mouz in the current season/finals?
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On June 13 2013 06:07 graan wrote:
Are vortix and lucifron aloud to play for mouz in the current season/finals?
Mouz have already started sending out LucifroN. (look no further than today's match against Axiom) ^^
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On June 13 2013 02:51 SinCitta wrote:
Again, they did not allow player transfers to Karont3 because they didn't consider it a team anymore.
That's pretty ridiculous though.
IMO, every effort should be made to err on the side of letting the players play and letting the teams continue to compete.
This whole thing reeks of teams wanting that easy win.
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its unfortunate but i don't think you can blame Take.
Karont3 disbanded their sc2 roster, so it doesnt make sense to play out the rest of the season with random henchman players.
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im so glad there is a teamleague like this . i think the people should be more thankfull that take is producing souch an awesome team league
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IMO TakeTV had little choice. Karont3 disbanded their sc2 division, DQ'ing their team is pretty much the only logical step. It's admirable that both sides tried to come up with alternatives but, yeah, none of them are really acceptable or fair.
Teams have disbanded in the middle of team leagues before, eg TSL during IPTL. It happens, unfortunately, there's no good solutions, only bad compromises. TakeTV did the best they could in a difficult situation.
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Am I the only one thinking the statement made things worse? The worst part is that it's not clear yet what makes a team, and this happens when you have a league with jokers, new players all around, etc. It's a cool concept, but when problems arise, you have to deal with "not so clear" rules about team compositions.
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I have a hard time seeing where TakeTV had any other real choice given that Karont3 doesn't exist any more.
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I would have expected better communication skills from a company like Acer and/or TaKeTV. And why was Acer allowed to let Vortix and Luci play right away like that? It is against the rules... But nevermind, it's ACER Teamstory Cup, they do what they want.
I'm not saying Karont3 should've been allowed to continue on in the league, but it just seems like the rules in this tournament are the real joke here. They follow "the rules" when they want to. I'm not watching that tournament anymore.
If we want to make eSports a viable thing, maybe we should start acting professional.
EDIT: Punctuation to make it easier to read
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I think this is a dreadful decision and the whole mess reflects incredibly poorly on the whole TakeTV set up to be honest.
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On June 13 2013 03:23 TaKeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 02:51 SinCitta wrote:On June 13 2013 02:42 StarStruck wrote:On June 13 2013 02:22 SinCitta wrote:On June 13 2013 01:55 Lorch wrote:On June 13 2013 01:20 DjHorsi wrote:
Not even a statement about why Karonte was told 3 times that it is okay.. Take would have to be mentally retarded to make a statement on that. What is he supposed to say? Yeah our internal admin communication sucks? Or "hey it's taketv remember that one hsc where we forgot the rules?". Besides a sundance "i get it", there is nothing take can say that doesn't let his company (taketv) look unprofessional as fuck. Something like "We gave wrong information to Ryo and are sorry for the troubles he went through in vain as a result. Steps have been taken that this won't happen again. We apologize to him, the players and the fans." -- By the way, it's probably not TaKe that issued the statement. It's the account "TakeTv," not "TaKeSen". TaKe is busy organizing the Homestory Cup. -- For all the others giving examples of player changes in the ATC. That's not really the controversial part of the conversation anymore. VortiX and LucifroN to mouz, StarDust as a Joker to Quantic, Kane to ROOT and probably some others as well. Whether player changes were allowed or not wasn't really the problem. The problem from the official side was that the former Karont3 wasn't recognized as a team anymore, independent of who COULD play or who can be transferred. Who did Kane play for before he switched to ROOT in the ATC? If you cannot abide by your own rules from the start then I mean come on man. We even had rules for this kind of stuff in WGTour when players switched. If the rule is rosters are frozen for the remainder of the tournament then it should stick. As for the official statement. They should have a rule for teams that disband and that should have been stated clearly to every party involved. Kane played for Pulse before he joined ROOT. Pulse participated in the qualifiers. Player transfers are allowed by admin exception as Nazgul cited. It's a bad rule (because of admin arbitrariness), yes. Again, they did not allow player transfers to Karont3 because they didn't consider it a team anymore. If they created a new team (with sponsors, website and such) as a successor, I guess they could have played on. But the players were already going into different directions. That's right!
Ridiculously arbitrary and pretty shameful to be honest. You guys look terrible here. I can't watch this tournament after this.
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EPT
