You've seen the maps, you've had a chance to play them and now it's time to have your say. Everyone has until Sunday, Jun 09 4:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) to cast their vote for their favourite TLMC map. The results of this poll will be collated with the results of the pro vote and the winners will be decided. The results will be announced after the team play map winners have also been decided.
If you have a TLPD entry you are eligible to cast a vote in the pro vote. Please contact Plexa in order to receive instructions on how to vote.
The top three maps from this competition will receive the following prizes thanks to TeamLiquid and Blizzard: 1st Place: Mega Bloks Battlecruiser signed by the SC2 Dev Team, Razer Peripheral Set, $100 2nd Place: Kerrigan Action Figure signed by the SC2 Dev Team, Razer Peripheral Set, $50 3rd Place: HotS box art Poster signed by the SC2 Dev Team and Razer Banshee Headset
The Maps
(4) TPW Electric Circuit
(4) Crux Frost
(2) ESV Insidious
(2) TPW Keru
(2) TPW Khalim's Will
(4) TPW Koprulu
(2) ESV Ravage
(4) TPW Strangewood Mire
(2) DF Yeonsu
You can read up on the TL Strategy Analysis of these maps over in this thread. You can also see the games on these maps from our TL Open below.
I just ask everyone to NOT vote by aesthetics. If you don't like dark maps, or snow maps, or w/e...don't vote like such. Please vote by how you think that map will play out, and not how it looks. That is what's really important. The tileset and aesthetics can always change if they are unpopular. Thanks!
Ravage is probably the best one balance wise. Possibly Khalim's Will, but I do not really like the expansion placements and layout. The natural and third are relatively close, but they are all linked by ramps, which I always feel like ruin the game. I also wish there was a bit larger of an "open" area to that one.
Yoensu is completely aesthetic. It's cringe-worthy from a balance perspective, though. Well, maybe not that bad but I'd likely keep it on my veto list for both T and Z.
I am very curious to see games on Khalim's Will due to the expansions and rocks. It could turn out terribly, but I like the idea. I don't quite understand Koprulu though, how is Zerg supposed to get a third against blink stalkers?
On June 07 2013 16:08 Wojciech Zywny wrote: Ravage looks pretty sick. will blizzard add whatever map wins to the ladder map pool????
The winners will be considered for use on the ladder, no guarantees!
Shit man, even the worst one here is better than the Blizz-made maps. Blizzard should just do a poll with all of the maps out there so people can decide what to use instead of using their shit-tier ones >_>.
Aww man? no 3 position maps? I'd do 3 position over 4 any day.
4 position maps promote luck more than usual when it comes to the opening game.
I wish the maps had start locations shown for simplicity sake. Assuming I have the positions on Khalim's Will right, doesn't it suffer the same problem Jungle basin had only far worse because: - it also has a very defend-able natural (maybe this also helps things in some ways though) - the main's expansion is on higher ground than the other side of the destructible rocks ?
Unless something changed in the balance of SC2 with the patches and HotS, I don't see how that map got to the final and/or how would have any chance.
On June 07 2013 16:56 Xapti wrote: Aww man? no 3 position maps? I'd do 3 position over 4 any day.
4 position maps promote luck more than usual when it comes to the opening game.
I wish the maps had star locations shown for easyness sake. Assuming I have the positions on Khalim's Will right, doesn't it suffer the same problem Jungle basin had only far worse because: - it also has a very defend-able natural - the main's expansion is on higher ground than the other side of the destructible rocks Unless something changed in the balance of SC2 with the patches and HotS, I don't see how that map got to the final and/or how would have any chance.
On June 07 2013 16:56 Xapti wrote: Aww man? no 3 position maps? I'd do 3 position over 4 any day.
4 position maps promote luck more than usual when it comes to the opening game.
I wish the maps had star locations shown for easyness sake. Assuming I have the positions on Khalim's Will right, doesn't it suffer the same problem Jungle basin had only far worse because: - it also has a very defend-able natural - the main's expansion is on higher ground than the other side of the destructible rocks Unless something changed in the balance of SC2 with the patches and HotS, I don't see how that map got to the final and/or how would have any chance.
OK thanks; I haven't been following the competition at all, nor that map, so I don't know what sort of reasoning/explanations are supporting it. edit: after reading that, it doesn't really explain exactly how it's balanced, particularly compared to previous maps that existed like this such as Jungle Basin. I guess one of the big problems with Jungle Basin was that the 3rd base was really hard for zerg to defend, making them lose, and that that issue would exist here.
Nonetheless, I'm not much of a fan of a map that so explicitly condones 3 base macro games with virtually no other option.
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I think that I like Yeonsu the most. I'm not a fan of it's very small natural and reasonably large travel distance from main to natural though. Maybe it's my perception; seems the same way with Keru as well.
On June 07 2013 16:56 Xapti wrote: Aww man? no 3 position maps? I'd do 3 position over 4 any day.
4 position maps promote luck more than usual when it comes to the opening game.
I wish the maps had star locations shown for easyness sake. Assuming I have the positions on Khalim's Will right, doesn't it suffer the same problem Jungle basin had only far worse because: - it also has a very defend-able natural - the main's expansion is on higher ground than the other side of the destructible rocks Unless something changed in the balance of SC2 with the patches and HotS, I don't see how that map got to the final and/or how would have any chance.
OK thanks; I haven't been following the competition at all, nor that map, so I don't know what sort of reasoning/explanations are supporting it. edit: after reading that, it doesn't really explain exactly how it's balanced, particularly compared to previous maps that existed like this such as Jungle Basin. I guess one of the big problems with Jungle Basin was that the 3rd base was really hard for zerg to defend, making them lose, and that that issue would exist here.
Nonetheless, I'm not much of a fan of a map that so explicitly condones 3 base macro games with virtually no other option.
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I think that I like Yeonsu the most. I'm not a fan of it's very small natural and reasonably large travel distance from main to natural though. Maybe it's my perception; seems the same way with Keru as well.
In some ways, the natural is more easily defend-able. In other ways, it's not. For example, Icarus is a map with a similar main/natural layout that promotes aggressive play. Both third bases also have their unique vulnerabilities as is written about in the write-up. I'm not sure what kind of imbalance you're referring to.
I really don't like only being able to vote for one rather than say 3. I'd have preferred some points system like 3-2-1 for first, second and third, or 6-3-1, that sort of thing. Ah well. For me personally though, this might be harder to choose now, with only one to select.
And here is my personal ranking. I tried being objective about it despite my map being probably higher than it should be... if it helps...
(4) Crux Frost (4) TPW Electric Circuit (4) TPW Strangewood Mire (2) DF Yeonsu (2) ESV Ravage (2) ESV Insidious (2) TPW Keru* (4) TPW Koprulu (2) TPW Khalim's Will
Keru is only so low on the ranking because I would have liked to seen more games on a lowground main (with adjustments) and I believe that WOULD have shaken up the metagame as blizzard wanted.
Though I haven't voted yet because I really want to vote right..
I like Koprulu, reminds me of a 4 player outsider, might promote some different play. Most of the others seem pretty bland. The backdoor on Khalim's will looks way too accessible for the opponent, not sure how well it'd play. Also have reservations about the use of islands. Giving terrans a safe fast third they can mule doesn't appeal.
I voted for Koprulu, but I love how pretty TPW Strangewood Mire, Khalim's Will, Yeonsu and Crux Frost are.
Why are people saying Ravage is normal? The third looks rather open, can be attacked from two obvious sides (potentially three) and there are quite a lot of ramps, really.
Strangewood Mire looks really interesting but the texturing on Electric Circuit is fuckin amazing... But then I look at how safe 3 bases are on Electric. No thanks. Strangewood Mire is not much better. Sad.
Good god the only map I really like is Ravage. And its like Ohana all over again. I'll vote for it but next time I expect something more revolutionary Ironman!
On June 07 2013 20:58 lefix wrote: My personal ranking:
(4) TPW Strangewood Mire (4) TPW Electric Circuit (2) DF Yeonsu (4) Crux Frost (2) ESV Insidious (4) TPW Koprulu (2) TPW Keru (2) ESV Ravage (2) TPW Khalim's Will
:D
Lefix shares my top 3. ^_^ He's so smart!
(4) TPW Strangewood Mire (4) TPW Electric Circuit (2) DF Yeonsu (2) ESV Insidious (2) ESV Ravage (4) Crux Frost (2)TPW Keru (2)TPW Khalim's Will (4)TPW Koprulu
I believe Strangewood Mire should win mainly because it's the only 4 player map of the bunch that would actually work well with all positions. I feel Frost and Koprulu won't work as well in close positions. Even Electric Circuit won't be that great in close positions depending on the spawn, but I think EC is unique enough, yet standard enough to still produce interesting games. Strangewood Mire has multiple different rush distances depending on the spawn which means there is so much variety in the map. No matter where you spawn you will have an option to take a 3rd. All different types of play will be viable. 1-2 base all-ins, mutas, brood lords, mech, skytoss, everything.
Electronic Circuit should be 2nd place because the way the first three bases are set up make it quite a unique layout, yet it can still be played standard. With the backdoor rocks though it really opens up some very strong all-ins, mainly from protoss, which forces the defending player to try his hardest to keep the rocks from going down. To me, I see this map similar to Terminus in that I believe it will be quite hard to secure a 4th base (unless cross positions). But that shouldn't really downgrade it.
Finally for me, it came down to Yeonsu, Insidious and Ravage as a battle for 3rd place. I think they are all great solid standard maps. The main reason why I choose Yeonsu over the others was that you'll most likely see macro games on the map beceause of the base layout and the watchtowers. Ladder is already filled with plenty of 1 or 2 base cheese games so having a 2 player macro map is nice. Insidious I would love much better if the middle was opened up more. I feel it might be a little too choked off and limited pathing through out the middle and with that it might be too hard for zerg to get surrenders or counter attack properly. Ravage, although very solid, I think is just way too similiar (main - 4th) to many other maps we've seen so I think it'd be nice to have something different. Ravage is also the opposite of Insidious for me, where I love the middle, yet don't care so much for the main-3rd.
Either way, Strangewood needs to win. The variety this map will bring to the ladder would be amazing. Good job Samro / TPW.!
Misclicked and got Keru, the only problem is the fourth base, but the map seem interesting enough so I don't feel to bad about it. First choice would had been Koprulu which seem interesting and you could see some really map specific plays and agression on that map which lead do a broader spectrum of strategy same goes for Keru. But fourth seem too hard to get on Keru but that is fine.
Ravage, Sidious, Strangewood Mire, Crux Frost is a bit too generic gameplay wise, imo.Yeonsu could had been a good map if the rocks from natural to third were on the ramp closer to the middle, but it is not otherwise it would had been a clear number 1 for me, but sadly not so 4th place for me tied with electric circuit.
On June 07 2013 23:56 Elldar wrote: Misclicked and got Keru, the only problem is the fourth base, but the map seem interesting enough so I don't feel to bad about it. First choice would had been Koprulu which seem interesting and you could see some really map specific plays and agression on that map which lead do a broader spectrum of strategy same goes for Keru. But fourth seem too hard to get on Keru but that is fine.
Ravage, Sidious, Strangewood Mire, Crux Frost is a bit too generic gameplay wise, imo.Yeonsu could had been a good map if the rocks from natural to third were on the ramp closer to the middle, but it is not otherwise it would had been a clear number 1 for me, but sadly not so 4th place for me tied with electric circuit.
Shit man, because of one rock placement it drops from 1st to 4th? You're harsh lol.
On June 07 2013 23:56 Elldar wrote: Misclicked and got Keru, the only problem is the fourth base, but the map seem interesting enough so I don't feel to bad about it. First choice would had been Koprulu which seem interesting and you could see some really map specific plays and agression on that map which lead do a broader spectrum of strategy same goes for Keru. But fourth seem too hard to get on Keru but that is fine.
Ravage, Sidious, Strangewood Mire, Crux Frost is a bit too generic gameplay wise, imo.Yeonsu could had been a good map if the rocks from natural to third were on the ramp closer to the middle, but it is not otherwise it would had been a clear number 1 for me, but sadly not so 4th place for me tied with electric circuit.
Shit man, because of one rock placement it drops from 1st to 4th? You're harsh lol.
Also changing the rocks to the ramp closer to the middle would make a lot of fast expands impossible, which is a bit limiting. But thanks
Hopefully Electric Circuit wins. I think their map design will be quite interesting by forgoing that main mini ramp & having destructible rocks @ 3rd that are easily accessible between main/nat. Would like to see a map like this tested in HOTS Ladder. I feel like the outcome of no ramp + pocket 3rd would be a lot different than any map tested in wol.
edit:
My ranking for top 4:
(1) Electric Circuit (4) (2) Crux Frost (4) (3) TOW Strangewood Mire (4) (4) DF Yeonsu (2) [ kind of on edge about picking this as 4. But it'd be interesting to test to say the least. ]
Also, Where are all the 3 position maps at? I kinda wish more were developed, the concept seems like it could be explored a ton.
& so sad I missed check in for TL open yesterday. These maps overall look so fun to play on T_T
On June 08 2013 00:28 eTcetRa wrote:Also changing the rocks to the ramp closer to the middle would make a lot of fast expands impossible, which is a bit limiting. But thanks
Hey what map did you submit, if any? Your "space garden" map had really cool aesthetics.
Hell yea voted Koprulu, altho I really looove most of the maps. I guess kinda anti fan of Ravage and Yeonsu cos they are not rly that interesting tho. Keru and Khalims Will deserve more love than they get, most interesting and smart layouts imo.
Honestly, some of the unorthodox maps might make for really good games, but it's tough to tell without seeing Code-S-level players play on them - probably one of the reasons that major map pools haven't deviated much from the standard three-base trope.
On June 08 2013 06:15 sevia wrote: Yeonsu and Ravage stand out.
Honestly, some of the unorthodox maps might make for really good games, but it's tough to tell without seeing Code-S-level players play on them - probably one of the reasons that major map pools haven't deviated much from the standard three-base trope.
Well in Korea they deviate~ just comes down to all the international tournaments having no balls or interested in using maps that aren't on ladder or standard maps from GSL...
I like Frost. Seems to be the best fit for promoting longer games by not forcing you to expand towards your opponent. The analysis of Koprulu makes an excellent and damning point imo when it says they expect mutas to be mandatory due to the mineral line harass capabilities. I can easily see that becoming tiresome and ridiculous for zerg players. Not good.
I'm weighing my vote right now, I have to say that Khalims Will is just wild. I was completely horrified at first, I've managed to calm down and I just find it interesting as hell. It's a really aggressive map, but It's aggressive without being steppes of war aggressive. Koprulu is also interesting, but I'm really digging Khalims Will. It's a map that really stands out to me.
Personal overall thoughts Electric circuit looks really solid and interesting. Frost's natural layout looked too small at first, but actually is interesting. Keru will be banned by every zerg, I can't see them taking a third in a game ever. I'd like Koprulu concept more if I didn't get the impression that Medivacs/bio and warp-in mechanic will be abusive with those mineral walls. I like more Ravage than Insidious. Not really impressed by Yeonsu's design, although surely different from the standard. However it surely has an astonishing look. No idea about Strangewood Mire, to be honest. I'm going to express my love for Khalim's will once again: interesting base layout, aggression-oriented, but not necessarly in a early all-in way. This map will provide great games, imo.
Overall, a standing ovation for all the mapmakers involved: without taking anything away from the previous contest, all the maps have great looks, interesting concepts and are miles ahead of every Blizz map. I'm pretty sure that they can push the meta in ways that I cannot even imagine. While I cheer for Khalim, I wouldn't be displeased by any other winner. Quite funny that both my favourite and less favourite map come from the same mapmaker.
On June 08 2013 00:28 eTcetRa wrote:Also changing the rocks to the ramp closer to the middle would make a lot of fast expands impossible, which is a bit limiting. But thanks
Hey what map did you submit, if any? Your "space garden" map had really cool aesthetics.
Ravage is probably the most balanced map. But my vote went to Khalim's Will for the fun factor. Koprulu looks like another fun map, however I think that map is just too spawn-dependent for competitive play.
On June 08 2013 12:20 shin_toss wrote: good to see Koprulu getting lots of votes. standard layout maps are getting boring.
Most of the finalists aren't standard, so Koprulu in particular shouldn't really get any votes for this reason. Though, it is easy to see double-sided bases and immediately think it's clever, I guess.
On June 08 2013 10:58 ELlminator1 wrote: Voted Frost purely for aesthetic reasons. Im sick of seeing brown/grey tile sets.
Good to see this whole schtick working as intended.
I guess the voting system works okay? Sometimes when you only have one vote there will be solid maps that are consistently second in people's minds and are overlooked as a result. And I don't know how many people had time to really explore the new maps, I for one only saw a few games and based my choice on that.
Yeonsu's aesthetics are pretty on the overview, but while watching the TL-Open, it looked like in-game the grass and high contrast between regions made it hard to see what was happening, and I found it quite confusing :/
I was desperately looking for a map with mineral only expansions or an expansion with only 1 gas or some sort of gold mixes Anyway Khalim's seems like the best and most innovative one.
Not surprised nobody is mentioning Insidious, because it is pretty dark. But imo it has the potential to play out some amazing games, it is like a larger, more macro friendly version of Belshir Vestige. Even better, it is hard to maintain the 3rd, but once you do, it is easier to maintain the 4th, which I think is a great design feature.
On June 09 2013 03:15 fedexfan wrote: I was desperately looking for a map with mineral only expansions or an expansion with only 1 gas or some sort of gold mixes Anyway Khalim's seems like the best and most innovative one.
Alterations to mineral values or mineral formations are not allowed on the ladder so are banned in this tournament
khalim looks cool too, its by far the most innovative map.. which is why i didnt vote for it . it probably has alot of balance issues (same could be said for kropulu but to a lesser extent), i applaud the mapmaker for thinking outside the box tho
Dear Map Makers: Stop trying too hard with the textures, some of these maps are hard as hell to 'read' cause of how stuff you got going on them, a lot of the time in design- less is better.
my personal favorites were:
1)Ravage 2)Kropolu 3)Keru
with honorable mentions to insidius and Strangewood
On June 09 2013 03:21 Redrot wrote: Not surprised nobody is mentioning Insidious, because it is pretty dark. But imo it has the potential to play out some amazing games, it is like a larger, more macro friendly version of Belshir Vestige. Even better, it is hard to maintain the 3rd, but once you do, it is easier to maintain the 4th, which I think is a great design feature.
insidious + jungle tileset = win. i hate the current tileset but the map layout is rly nice. of all the maps it probably has the best expo layout
1)keru 2)ravage 3)kropulu 4)insidious, i would bump it into my top 3 if it had a better tileset. balance-wise these 4 maps are by far the best
As a Masters player (1100 pts) I think one of the most important things, even going past balance, is the aesthetic of the map. When you play at a fairly competitive level (yes I'm not the best) the ability to repetitively play a single map goes beyond just the strategies you play on them but as well as the emotions you feel playing.
Example : Daybreak was questionably one of the best and most balanced maps which had some of the most unique playstyle variants available yet I had trouble playing games on it (similar to cloud kingdom) just from the point of view of looking at the map.
For this reason (2) ESV Ravage (2) DF Yeonsu (2) TPW Keru
These three maps are (from the little play I've had on them) some of the nicest looking and fun to play on. I would rank these as my favorites.
Sidenote: Keru is almost an exact copy of neo planet S with the center circle shifting to more reasonable expansions (no one ever takes center of neo planet S) but the entire outer edge of it is a duplicate with slight variations (ie third removed while shifting the center expansions from neo into a more reasonable layout.. It is a much better map and as such I think it's also on my list of maps to pick. It seems to encourage more diverse play styles.
On June 09 2013 10:03 ROOTCatZ wrote: I voted ESV Ravage, nice and clean.
Dear Map Makers: Stop trying too hard with the textures, some of these maps are hard as hell to 'read' cause of how stuff you got going on them, a lot of the time in design- less is better.
my personal favorites were:
1)Ravage 2)Kropolu 3)Keru
with honorable mentions to insidius and Strangewood
I agree with the point on textures, it's just I think it's funny. People have only spelled that name correctly like twice.
Missed the vote deadline, but if I could have voted I'd probably have picked Keru. I also like the BW-inspired idea behind Koprulu, but I think in practice it would just be too positionally imbalanced in this case.
On June 09 2013 10:03 ROOTCatZ wrote: I voted ESV Ravage, nice and clean.
Dear Map Makers: Stop trying too hard with the textures, some of these maps are hard as hell to 'read' cause of how stuff you got going on them, a lot of the time in design- less is better.
my personal favorites were:
1)Ravage 2)Kropolu 3)Keru
with honorable mentions to insidius and Strangewood
I agree with the point on textures, it's just I think it's funny. People have only spelled that name correctly like twice.
On June 09 2013 03:15 fedexfan wrote: I was desperately looking for a map with mineral only expansions or an expansion with only 1 gas or some sort of gold mixes Anyway Khalim's seems like the best and most innovative one.
Alterations to mineral values or mineral formations are not allowed on the ladder so are banned in this tournament
Kulas Ravine was a ladder map and had a 7 mineral base :D
On June 09 2013 00:57 BobMcJohnson wrote: Yeonsu's aesthetics are pretty on the overview, but while watching the TL-Open, it looked like in-game the grass and high contrast between regions made it hard to see what was happening, and I found it quite confusing :/
Just to clarify, is it the transition between the rock and grass throwing you off? I could blend it a bit and smoothen the edges, but most people I have spoken to haven't had any difficulty in reading the terrain.
I'm a little bit disappointed there aren't any maps with Zerus derived textures. In my opinion it's important to have maps resemble campaign missions because it creates familiarity for a more casual audience.
On June 09 2013 00:57 BobMcJohnson wrote: Yeonsu's aesthetics are pretty on the overview, but while watching the TL-Open, it looked like in-game the grass and high contrast between regions made it hard to see what was happening, and I found it quite confusing :/
Just to clarify, is it the transition between the rock and grass throwing you off? I could blend it a bit and smoothen the edges, but most people I have spoken to haven't had any difficulty in reading the terrain.
Yeah, the high contrast between dark grass and rock/snow made it look weird on stream, as if the rock was higher ground or something, maybe it's just me but it felt strange. For reference the game I watched was Morrow vs some Zerg (I think TLOpen Ro4, maybe Ro8)
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/unBom9u.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/do0yxE8.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OTbO7Sr.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/yqKnAw7.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wJR4DxK.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tY3mKrg.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1lzGhoZ.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/M8uXDCh.jpg)
Anyway Khalim's seems like the best and most innovative one.
