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On June 08 2013 10:01 Megapenthes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 23:28 needcomputer wrote:
This is interesting, thanks for the post!
Certain professions think they are better than other professions.. A Sc2 dev thinks he is greater than another blizzard employee (not a dev) just like a doctor thinks he is superior to a nurse/pharmacist. In fairness, you don't need qualifications to do QA, but you do to be a game dev... I got the impression this guy was a QA tester, in which case I imagine he'd have a bad time wherever he was: from what I've heard QA is just awful awful work. As a lot of people have said, this kind of smacks of him being bitter at Blizzard, and it seems he's saying what the people who are angry that SC2 isn't BW want to hear EDIT: apparently it's a she
To be a good QA tester you do need certain qualifications too ... they arent of the "you got a degree to show for it" type though. You need to be patient to test the same things over and over again even though you are bored by them, objective enough to judge potential problems, creative enough to look for bugs and smart enough to articulate problems and explain them to others. Game developers dont need any super high qualifications either, because you can make great games with just a lot of enthusiasm and the right ideas; lots of indie devs show that every time and many of them dont have a degree for "game development" but instead probably only have programming qualifications. The devs at Blizzard probably dont do any programming.
Blizzard devs dont really come across as smart though, because they ignore the glaring problems of the game. Some interviews from Dustin Browder really showed that, because he claimed that players want the deathball. Sure they want ... but that doesnt mean it is a good mechanic ... and yet they dont do anything to get rid of it.
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On June 08 2013 14:21 udgnim wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 14:07 Brett wrote:
So this person massively dodged questions about Titan, which is something nobody really knows about, despite suggesting they'd been shown bits and pieces of the game... I call BS on this person being legitimate. non-disclosure agreement
Given responses to other questions, I don't think they appear to be concerned about legal consequences.
Wasn't their posting also annonymous?
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On June 08 2013 13:58 _Search_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 10:28 AnomalySC2 wrote:On June 08 2013 09:50 _Search_ wrote:On June 07 2013 23:31 Wildmoon wrote:On June 07 2013 23:29 _Search_ wrote:I'll say that working with SC2 devs can be challenging because they don't tend to want to listen to your suggestions. They can also come across as quite dickesh because they feel they can do no wrong. Mind you there are some very nice devs on that team that actually give a shit, but some of the more "esteemed" devs have a superiority complex for sure. I really don't understand why this is so surprising. Everything I've seen from Kim/Browder speaks of unquestionable arrogance. DB is really humble judging from various interviews if you ask me. Are you fucking joking? Who has the arrogance to keep adding more shit Blizzard maps to the map pool after years of everyone telling them to switch to tournament maps? Who has the arrogance to tell the community that Terran is balanced while Artosis and Tasteless THEMSELVES are calling it GomTvT? Who has the arrogance to abandon Wings of Liberty altogether 8 months before their new expansion ships, leaving the last 4 or 5 seasons of GSL to nothing but immortal/sentry allins and ZvZs? Who has the arrogance to MAKE A CLOCK THAT DOESNT EVEN RUN ON REAL TIME??!! Anything but absolute contempt is too good for the Blizzard design team. I'm not sure where to start with this one.....I guess I just won't, everything you said was retarded. Hint, maybe the creators of the game know more about it then the community, maybe they understand what makes for a balanced or imbalanced map better than you? Ever think of that...of course you didn't. Yeah, the creators of the game know more about the game than us, WHICH IS WHY THEY JUST GAVE US KLONTAS MIRE.
I actually think this is an important point to touch on, in that it's important to know the difference between listening to your community and listening to your QA department. The Blizzard QA department is not made up of Korean GM players. They definitely should be listening to the community more - but, the fact that they gave us Klontas Mire, the shittiest map of all time, is not in and of itself evidence that the dev team should be listening more to their QA department, where the average tester is probably in, like, platinum league. Hell, Blizzard QA probably played that map and was like "lolz this is cool I love the bridge", since it's obvious that nobody who has a clue ever looked at that map before it magically appeared on the ladder.
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In regards to the "sickish debs" comment I think its quite fair comment. Coming off as a dev for android/iPhone (which is probably far more simpler) I can understand them being dicks. I see pointless feedbacks all the time which I do listen too and its overall impact does nothing or worse sales.
Fact is, I have all the resources, I have the stats and I can see what the general population likes from that. I have all the vital analytics I have to see what users like to use in my app.
When I see some anti-apple fan saying Apple will crash because it doesn't have full screen, I think "What do they know? Do they think they have brilliant minds to be an instant billionaire that Apple's problem can be solved by increasing screen size? What about costs? Battery performance? blah blah blah can go on for ever. Apple have the stats, they know what works and what doesn't for them and so they have the freedom to utilise that information to their advantage (they are after are near the top of the smart phone market anyways so they must be doing it right still).
Anyways, we can't judge what SC2 will be a successful game. Will balancing the game make the game more popular? Will adding more features do that as well?
But yes, devs can be quite dickish. The hard work of making a game and piecing the code together is such a mind fuck thing to do and when someone who knows nothing of the process comes along and derps like its so easy to put features in and generate billions of dollars because they think they are so smart.. LoL is all i can say.
Overall I think blizzard have come under fire over the last few years, they seem to be losing ground on the basis that they are laying off employees, their lust to gain control SC2 tourney probably didn't go as how they wanted it to.
And custom maps, it has alot of potential, but common where are the documentation to assist us? I have to work out every single thing on my own and that is just way too time consuming. I feel sorry for that kid who just sat in his basement trying to release the potential of blizzard with a "World of StarCraft" map only to be sent a cease and desist letter.
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This person could be anybody.
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On June 08 2013 15:33 Brett wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 14:21 udgnim wrote:On June 08 2013 14:07 Brett wrote:
So this person massively dodged questions about Titan, which is something nobody really knows about, despite suggesting they'd been shown bits and pieces of the game... I call BS on this person being legitimate. non-disclosure agreement Given responses to other questions, I don't think they appear to be concerned about legal consequences. Wasn't their posting also annonymous?
And with the information they provided such as I worked in Blizzard from 06' to 12', worked in these departments etc I'm pretty sure it'd be easy to narrow down a few of the laid off employees. He went in anon, but went in with adhering to the NDA.
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I actually think this is an important point to touch on, in that it's important to know the difference between listening to your community and listening to your QA department. The Blizzard QA department is not made up of Korean GM players. They definitely should be listening to the community more - but, the fact that they gave us Klontas Mire, the shittiest map of all time, is not in and of itself evidence that the dev team should be listening more to their QA department, where the average tester is probably in, like, platinum league. Hell, Blizzard QA probably played that map and was like "lolz this is cool I love the bridge", since it's obvious that nobody who has a clue ever looked at that map before it magically appeared on the ladder.
It's not in any way the QA department's job to decide whether Klontas Mire is a good map or not.
It's the QA department's job to make sure that the map doesn't contain any graphical glitches, make sure all the stuff that looks passable is passable (and all the stuff that looks impassable isn't), make sure that the map doesn't run so much slower than other maps that people have to change their graphics settings, and so on.
The map pool is a perfect example of why "listening to the community" is a no-win scenario. "The community" hates any map on which the one build they have memorised for that match-up may not be optimal. "The community" hates any map that threatens to shake up the meta-game. "The community" hates maps that take risks. (Except in Pro League, because interesting maps that support weird non-standard builds are fun when someone else has to play them.)
(The lead designer of Magic: The Gathering was asked on his blog whether he regretted making a certain completely broken card. His response: “If we didn't risk making broken cards, we'd never make any good cards either.”)
SC2 has for the most part a monotonous, neutered map pool where everything is a minor variant on everything else because Blizzard keeps listening to the community's bitter complaints whenever they try to introduce anything out-of-the-ordinary.
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On June 08 2013 13:58 _Search_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 10:28 AnomalySC2 wrote:On June 08 2013 09:50 _Search_ wrote:On June 07 2013 23:31 Wildmoon wrote:On June 07 2013 23:29 _Search_ wrote:I'll say that working with SC2 devs can be challenging because they don't tend to want to listen to your suggestions. They can also come across as quite dickesh because they feel they can do no wrong. Mind you there are some very nice devs on that team that actually give a shit, but some of the more "esteemed" devs have a superiority complex for sure. I really don't understand why this is so surprising. Everything I've seen from Kim/Browder speaks of unquestionable arrogance. DB is really humble judging from various interviews if you ask me. Are you fucking joking? Who has the arrogance to keep adding more shit Blizzard maps to the map pool after years of everyone telling them to switch to tournament maps? Who has the arrogance to tell the community that Terran is balanced while Artosis and Tasteless THEMSELVES are calling it GomTvT? Who has the arrogance to abandon Wings of Liberty altogether 8 months before their new expansion ships, leaving the last 4 or 5 seasons of GSL to nothing but immortal/sentry allins and ZvZs? Who has the arrogance to MAKE A CLOCK THAT DOESNT EVEN RUN ON REAL TIME??!! Anything but absolute contempt is too good for the Blizzard design team. I'm not sure where to start with this one.....I guess I just won't, everything you said was retarded. Hint, maybe the creators of the game know more about it then the community, maybe they understand what makes for a balanced or imbalanced map better than you? Ever think of that...of course you didn't. Yeah, the creators of the game know more about the game than us, WHICH IS WHY THEY JUST GAVE US KLONTAS MIRE.
They were trying to introduce different modes of play. Having a bridge adds variety. It's not what everyone likes, and may not even be balanced, but those of you who hate it can just veto it. It was stupid, sure (I play exclusively macro games and hate that map), but there are those among us who may actually enjoy using it to do something other than a normal game.
By the way, which clock that doesn't run on real time are you talking about? I smell absolute retardation
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On June 08 2013 22:07 xAdra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 13:58 _Search_ wrote:On June 08 2013 10:28 AnomalySC2 wrote:On June 08 2013 09:50 _Search_ wrote:On June 07 2013 23:31 Wildmoon wrote:On June 07 2013 23:29 _Search_ wrote:I'll say that working with SC2 devs can be challenging because they don't tend to want to listen to your suggestions. They can also come across as quite dickesh because they feel they can do no wrong. Mind you there are some very nice devs on that team that actually give a shit, but some of the more "esteemed" devs have a superiority complex for sure. I really don't understand why this is so surprising. Everything I've seen from Kim/Browder speaks of unquestionable arrogance. DB is really humble judging from various interviews if you ask me. Are you fucking joking? Who has the arrogance to keep adding more shit Blizzard maps to the map pool after years of everyone telling them to switch to tournament maps? Who has the arrogance to tell the community that Terran is balanced while Artosis and Tasteless THEMSELVES are calling it GomTvT? Who has the arrogance to abandon Wings of Liberty altogether 8 months before their new expansion ships, leaving the last 4 or 5 seasons of GSL to nothing but immortal/sentry allins and ZvZs? Who has the arrogance to MAKE A CLOCK THAT DOESNT EVEN RUN ON REAL TIME??!! Anything but absolute contempt is too good for the Blizzard design team. I'm not sure where to start with this one.....I guess I just won't, everything you said was retarded. Hint, maybe the creators of the game know more about it then the community, maybe they understand what makes for a balanced or imbalanced map better than you? Ever think of that...of course you didn't. Yeah, the creators of the game know more about the game than us, WHICH IS WHY THEY JUST GAVE US KLONTAS MIRE. By the way, which clock that doesn't run on real time are you talking about? I smell absolute retardation
you know the game clock runs faster than it's supposed to, given that no one plays at "normal" game speed, right?
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On June 08 2013 22:58 Quotidian wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 22:07 xAdra wrote:On June 08 2013 13:58 _Search_ wrote:On June 08 2013 10:28 AnomalySC2 wrote:On June 08 2013 09:50 _Search_ wrote:On June 07 2013 23:31 Wildmoon wrote:On June 07 2013 23:29 _Search_ wrote:I'll say that working with SC2 devs can be challenging because they don't tend to want to listen to your suggestions. They can also come across as quite dickesh because they feel they can do no wrong. Mind you there are some very nice devs on that team that actually give a shit, but some of the more "esteemed" devs have a superiority complex for sure. I really don't understand why this is so surprising. Everything I've seen from Kim/Browder speaks of unquestionable arrogance. DB is really humble judging from various interviews if you ask me. Are you fucking joking? Who has the arrogance to keep adding more shit Blizzard maps to the map pool after years of everyone telling them to switch to tournament maps? Who has the arrogance to tell the community that Terran is balanced while Artosis and Tasteless THEMSELVES are calling it GomTvT? Who has the arrogance to abandon Wings of Liberty altogether 8 months before their new expansion ships, leaving the last 4 or 5 seasons of GSL to nothing but immortal/sentry allins and ZvZs? Who has the arrogance to MAKE A CLOCK THAT DOESNT EVEN RUN ON REAL TIME??!! Anything but absolute contempt is too good for the Blizzard design team. I'm not sure where to start with this one.....I guess I just won't, everything you said was retarded. Hint, maybe the creators of the game know more about it then the community, maybe they understand what makes for a balanced or imbalanced map better than you? Ever think of that...of course you didn't. Yeah, the creators of the game know more about the game than us, WHICH IS WHY THEY JUST GAVE US KLONTAS MIRE. By the way, which clock that doesn't run on real time are you talking about? I smell absolute retardation you know the game clock runs faster than it's supposed to, given that no one plays at "normal" game speed, right?
My point exactly, the guy is saying Blizzard is arrogant for...making a clock that doesn't even run on real time. I'd like to see him come defend his point. Bitching and whining about Blizzard seems to be the "in" thing nowadays, even kids like this do it.
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On June 08 2013 23:11 xAdra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 22:58 Quotidian wrote:On June 08 2013 22:07 xAdra wrote:On June 08 2013 13:58 _Search_ wrote:On June 08 2013 10:28 AnomalySC2 wrote:On June 08 2013 09:50 _Search_ wrote:On June 07 2013 23:31 Wildmoon wrote:On June 07 2013 23:29 _Search_ wrote:I'll say that working with SC2 devs can be challenging because they don't tend to want to listen to your suggestions. They can also come across as quite dickesh because they feel they can do no wrong. Mind you there are some very nice devs on that team that actually give a shit, but some of the more "esteemed" devs have a superiority complex for sure. I really don't understand why this is so surprising. Everything I've seen from Kim/Browder speaks of unquestionable arrogance. DB is really humble judging from various interviews if you ask me. Are you fucking joking? Who has the arrogance to keep adding more shit Blizzard maps to the map pool after years of everyone telling them to switch to tournament maps? Who has the arrogance to tell the community that Terran is balanced while Artosis and Tasteless THEMSELVES are calling it GomTvT? Who has the arrogance to abandon Wings of Liberty altogether 8 months before their new expansion ships, leaving the last 4 or 5 seasons of GSL to nothing but immortal/sentry allins and ZvZs? Who has the arrogance to MAKE A CLOCK THAT DOESNT EVEN RUN ON REAL TIME??!! Anything but absolute contempt is too good for the Blizzard design team. I'm not sure where to start with this one.....I guess I just won't, everything you said was retarded. Hint, maybe the creators of the game know more about it then the community, maybe they understand what makes for a balanced or imbalanced map better than you? Ever think of that...of course you didn't. Yeah, the creators of the game know more about the game than us, WHICH IS WHY THEY JUST GAVE US KLONTAS MIRE. By the way, which clock that doesn't run on real time are you talking about? I smell absolute retardation you know the game clock runs faster than it's supposed to, given that no one plays at "normal" game speed, right? My point exactly, the guy is saying Blizzard is arrogant for...making a clock that doesn't even run on real time. I'd like to see him come defend his point. Bitching and whining about Blizzard seems to be the "in" thing nowadays, even kids like this do it.
less arrogance and more incompetence, really... they could've made a system that scales all build times according to the game clock, it shouldn't be that hard.
The reason why it's "in" is because the bitching is warranted.
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On June 08 2013 22:58 Quotidian wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 22:07 xAdra wrote:On June 08 2013 13:58 _Search_ wrote:On June 08 2013 10:28 AnomalySC2 wrote:On June 08 2013 09:50 _Search_ wrote:On June 07 2013 23:31 Wildmoon wrote:On June 07 2013 23:29 _Search_ wrote:I'll say that working with SC2 devs can be challenging because they don't tend to want to listen to your suggestions. They can also come across as quite dickesh because they feel they can do no wrong. Mind you there are some very nice devs on that team that actually give a shit, but some of the more "esteemed" devs have a superiority complex for sure. I really don't understand why this is so surprising. Everything I've seen from Kim/Browder speaks of unquestionable arrogance. DB is really humble judging from various interviews if you ask me. Are you fucking joking? Who has the arrogance to keep adding more shit Blizzard maps to the map pool after years of everyone telling them to switch to tournament maps? Who has the arrogance to tell the community that Terran is balanced while Artosis and Tasteless THEMSELVES are calling it GomTvT? Who has the arrogance to abandon Wings of Liberty altogether 8 months before their new expansion ships, leaving the last 4 or 5 seasons of GSL to nothing but immortal/sentry allins and ZvZs? Who has the arrogance to MAKE A CLOCK THAT DOESNT EVEN RUN ON REAL TIME??!! Anything but absolute contempt is too good for the Blizzard design team. I'm not sure where to start with this one.....I guess I just won't, everything you said was retarded. Hint, maybe the creators of the game know more about it then the community, maybe they understand what makes for a balanced or imbalanced map better than you? Ever think of that...of course you didn't. Yeah, the creators of the game know more about the game than us, WHICH IS WHY THEY JUST GAVE US KLONTAS MIRE. By the way, which clock that doesn't run on real time are you talking about? I smell absolute retardation you know the game clock runs faster than it's supposed to, given that no one plays at "normal" game speed, right?
Pretty sure a ton of people that play campaign only play on normal.
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you know, you could replace "blizzard" in the interview with almost any other company and it still wouldn't be surprising.
Take it with a grain of salt, no company is perfect after all.
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Why does this person's opinion matter exactly?
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I feel like too many people in this thread are overeager to defend Blizzard, by attacking this person. They are attached to Blizzard, or something. Personally, I don't feel this attachment to the company.
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On June 09 2013 07:03 datscilly wrote:
I feel like too many people in this thread are overeager to defend Blizzard, by attacking this person. They are attached to Blizzard, or something. Personally, I don't feel this attachment to the company.
How do we even know that he knows what he's talking about and isn't just some guy on the internet. If he had come out and praised Blizzard everyone would have said that he's just a fan boy or a hired blizzard PR employee, but because he's negative everyone just assumes that he's the real thing? Give me a break.
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On June 09 2013 07:03 datscilly wrote:
I feel like too many people in this thread are overeager to defend Blizzard, by attacking this person. They are attached to Blizzard, or something. Personally, I don't feel this attachment to the company.
Hyperbole is rife on both sides in this thread. There's also a load of comments about how awful all the Blizzard developers are and how they have no idea how to make Starcraft 2 because they don't post enough on forums.
When people start making blanket statements they'll all just drown each other out in a flood of exaggeration. There's no real discussion here; either people yelling "Fuck yeah I knew Blizzard are stupid!" or "Disgruntled Q&A who doesn't actually know anything tries to sound important".
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On June 09 2013 07:03 datscilly wrote:
I feel like too many people in this thread are overeager to defend Blizzard, by attacking this person. They are attached to Blizzard, or something. Personally, I don't feel this attachment to the company.
I would not defend Blizz as I'm not happy with them in any way of shape, but this guy is a joke.
Unless he worked in upper management, he has no real knowledge of the situation than anyone else, no idea what made him think his AMA would be interesting or worthwhile in anyway. He (and most people commenting) seems totally lack any idea how software development work. And no, I do not believe he worked as QA, at least not software side. Every single software QA in my team (I'm software dev) has a BS in engineering or CS at least, and I don't know a single SQA who would work for 12/h, or 22, even considering how people throw themselves at gaming companies and result in lower pay (salary for a fresh out of college jr SQA is about 60k). GM though, I can totally see, as he seems on par with my experience with Blizz GMs. Also, GMs tend to be part timer or intern, with no real work experience, think of telemarketers; fits the guy pretty well. Not to mention that bad mouth previous employer is always a dick move and poor reflection on character. There probably was a really good reason to why he was fired.
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On June 09 2013 07:22 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 07:03 datscilly wrote:
I feel like too many people in this thread are overeager to defend Blizzard, by attacking this person. They are attached to Blizzard, or something. Personally, I don't feel this attachment to the company. I would not defend Blizz as I'm not happy with them in any way of shape, but this guy is a joke. Unless he worked in upper management, he has no real knowledge of the situation than anyone else, no idea what made him think his AMA would be interesting or worthwhile in anyway. He (and most people commenting) seems totally lack any idea how software development work. And no, I do not believe he worked as QA, at least not software side. Every single software QA in my team (I'm software dev) has a BS in engineering or CS at least, and I don't know a single SQA who would work for 12/h, or 22, even considering how people throw themselves at gaming companies and result in lower pay (salary for a fresh out of college jr SQA is about 60k). GM though, I can totally see, as he seems on par with my experience with Blizz GMs. Not to mention that bad mouth previous employer is always a dick move and poor reflection on character. There probably was a really good reason to why he was fired.
QA for software development is quite different from QA for video games.
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EPT
