On June 01 2013 04:32 RevTiberius wrote: Hm... the price pool is a bit disappointing. I was hoping for many Koreans to participate, but 25k is probably not enough to attract many of the top Koreans...
Oh yeah, because they shower in money in the various lavishing Korean competitions.
God knows, we were seeking Bombers approval for the prize money he could win. After all, 10K in a weekend is pocket change.
Considering hotel + flight + nowhere near guaranteed that you'll get first, let alone top 3, then yeah, 10k isn't enough to justify a trip from Korea.
Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
What's funny is Koreans will win anyway. Just the mid-tier ones on foreign teams. It's a gift to Axiom, Liquid and EG.
This is a weird discussion because I am not really sure what you folks want? Do you want an all invite event where they import all of the top Korean players for the weekend?
Not sure what's so hard to understand. I want last year's format. Open bracket plus korean seeds for group play. You're trying to push an extreme system of invite only system with top koreans as a counter argument, when no one argued that. We already had the perfect format last year at mlgs.
So you want an unfair event that favors players from Korea on teams that have deals with MGL to secure the seeds in to group play? Why not just cut out the open bracket and stop that side show? Its not like it really matters in that format, since the players seeded into group play have to play one third of the games.
Yup, I loved last year's format. I like the open bracket too so you can have someone like leenock make an open bracket run and win it.
Yeah, last years format was a side show, with stupid eSF and Kespa only brackets to assure they qualified to be seeded directly into group play. It provided unfair advantages to players who did not earn them and did everything it could to seed "big names" into group play. Players who had to go through the open bracket got the shaft for no other reason than they couldn't make deals with MLG to be seeded into the event.
On June 01 2013 04:32 RevTiberius wrote: Hm... the price pool is a bit disappointing. I was hoping for many Koreans to participate, but 25k is probably not enough to attract many of the top Koreans...
It depends on how much they value the WCS points. Most will be at a negative/go if they don't win the tournament because of travel. It's a bit early in the season to see if the 75-150 points from placing 9-16th will make a big difference at the end of the year for Blizzcon qualification.
On June 01 2013 04:32 RevTiberius wrote: Hm... the price pool is a bit disappointing. I was hoping for many Koreans to participate, but 25k is probably not enough to attract many of the top Koreans...
Oh yeah, because they shower in money in the various lavishing Korean competitions.
lol, what? He's right. It is not cheap to fly from Korea to the US, not to mention other costs, and it is only for a chance to win.
On June 01 2013 03:55 Plansix wrote: [quote] God knows, we were seeking Bombers approval for the prize money he could win. After all, 10K in a weekend is pocket change.
Considering hotel + flight + nowhere near guaranteed that you'll get first, let alone top 3, then yeah, 10k isn't enough to justify a trip from Korea.
Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
What's funny is Koreans will win anyway. Just the mid-tier ones on foreign teams. It's a gift to Axiom, Liquid and EG.
This is a weird discussion because I am not really sure what you folks want? Do you want an all invite event where they import all of the top Korean players for the weekend?
Not sure what's so hard to understand. I want last year's format. Open bracket plus korean seeds for group play. You're trying to push an extreme system of invite only system with top koreans as a counter argument, when no one argued that. We already had the perfect format last year at mlgs.
So you want an unfair event that favors players from Korea on teams that have deals with MGL to secure the seeds in to group play? Why not just cut out the open bracket and stop that side show? Its not like it really matters in that format, since the players seeded into group play have to play one third of the games.
Yup, I loved last year's format. I like the open bracket too so you can have someone like leenock make an open bracket run and win it.
Yeah, last years format was a side show, with stupid eSF and Kespa only brackets to assure they qualified to be seeded directly into group play. It provided unfair advantages to players who did not earn them and did everything it could to seed "big names" into group play. Players who had to go through the open bracket got the shaft for no other reason than they couldn't make deals with MLG to be seeded into the event.
You call it a side show. I call it the main attraction and the reason to tune into the event.
God knows, we were seeking Bombers approval for the prize money he could win. After all, 10K in a weekend is pocket change.
Considering hotel + flight + nowhere near guaranteed that you'll get first, let alone top 3, then yeah, 10k isn't enough to justify a trip from Korea.
Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
What's funny is Koreans will win anyway. Just the mid-tier ones on foreign teams. It's a gift to Axiom, Liquid and EG.
Then why do you care? I don't think you understand, I don't care who wins and I like all three of those teams and their players. I just don't want invites for Korean players who wouldn't come unless MLG paid for their flights and worked out some deal with their Kespa team.
This is a weird discussion because I am not really sure what you folks want? Do you want an all invite event where they import all of the top Korean players for the weekend?
Yeah, I'd like that a lot; give the top contenders more chances to secure the WCS points that are so ridiculously hard to come by in Korea. But honestly, I'd settle for a tournament where the top 4 finishers from the last tournament are flown in. Maybe even just top 2. The "finalists return" is one of the things I think MLG has done right, and I'm a little disappointed that it's not the case this time. It's obviously nice that we have a tournament to watch at all, don't get me wrong.
If there is one thing I want to see more of its continuity. Not just from organizer to organizer (which we sort of see from WCS). The organizers know of it, heck MLG partnered with DH/Gom before to make such things happen. What I'd like to see happen is every major tournament try their best to get the last winner of another major (regardless of the host/organizer) to build more continuity not for each brand. This is where my World Tour Circuit comes in, so we truly get to see the best of the best on a consistent basis. We're building towards creating more iconic/symbolic characters through inter-promotion & we have a better scale to go by. See several organizations like DH have their Winter, Summer, etc. Events where at the end they bring all the previous champs to a Final Tournament so-to-speak. This isn't what I'm talking about. I want to place more focus on the here and now. Rather than, okay a guy got his seed in Spring. 6 months later he attends the Winter Final? That time gap is too long. Instead we should be striving to connect each major together & it makes for a better story. If I'm an organizer I would move Heaven and Earth to get the last winner of a Major regardless of the brand. If I have a really big tournament coming up. I'd give that player a chance to continue their domination.
On June 01 2013 03:55 Plansix wrote: [quote] God knows, we were seeking Bombers approval for the prize money he could win. After all, 10K in a weekend is pocket change.
Considering hotel + flight + nowhere near guaranteed that you'll get first, let alone top 3, then yeah, 10k isn't enough to justify a trip from Korea.
Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
What's funny is Koreans will win anyway. Just the mid-tier ones on foreign teams. It's a gift to Axiom, Liquid and EG.
This is a weird discussion because I am not really sure what you folks want? Do you want an all invite event where they import all of the top Korean players for the weekend?
Not sure what's so hard to understand. I want last year's format. Open bracket plus korean seeds for group play. You're trying to push an extreme system of invite only system with top koreans as a counter argument, when no one argued that. We already had the perfect format last year at mlgs.
So you want an unfair event that favors players from Korea on teams that have deals with MGL to secure the seeds in to group play? Why not just cut out the open bracket and stop that side show? Its not like it really matters in that format, since the players seeded into group play have to play one third of the games.
Yup, I loved last year's format. I like the open bracket too so you can have someone like leenock make an open bracket run and win it.
Yeah, last years format was a side show, with stupid eSF and Kespa only brackets to assure they qualified to be seeded directly into group play. It provided unfair advantages to players who did not earn them and did everything it could to seed "big names" into group play. Players who had to go through the open bracket got the shaft for no other reason than they couldn't make deals with MLG to be seeded into the event.
you're really gonna say the Koreans didn't deserve to make it though when there also were brackets that ensured EU and especially NA players making it through? i agree that the format sucked, but the Koreans were not the ones that didn't deserve to be there.
On June 01 2013 04:32 RevTiberius wrote: Hm... the price pool is a bit disappointing. I was hoping for many Koreans to participate, but 25k is probably not enough to attract many of the top Koreans...
Oh yeah, because they shower in money in the various lavishing Korean competitions.
lol, what? He's right. It is not cheap to fly from Korea to the US, not to mention other costs, and it is only for a chance to win.
That's the risk every single person who attends a tournament takes. So their plane ticket costs more than someone from NA, but their chances to win are much higher also. They may not place high enough to cover travel costs, but going to literally any other tournament has that same risk, for every player. I don't see the problem.
On June 01 2013 03:57 Shiori wrote: [quote] Considering hotel + flight + nowhere near guaranteed that you'll get first, let alone top 3, then yeah, 10k isn't enough to justify a trip from Korea.
Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
What's funny is Koreans will win anyway. Just the mid-tier ones on foreign teams. It's a gift to Axiom, Liquid and EG.
This is a weird discussion because I am not really sure what you folks want? Do you want an all invite event where they import all of the top Korean players for the weekend?
Not sure what's so hard to understand. I want last year's format. Open bracket plus korean seeds for group play. You're trying to push an extreme system of invite only system with top koreans as a counter argument, when no one argued that. We already had the perfect format last year at mlgs.
So you want an unfair event that favors players from Korea on teams that have deals with MGL to secure the seeds in to group play? Why not just cut out the open bracket and stop that side show? Its not like it really matters in that format, since the players seeded into group play have to play one third of the games.
Yup, I loved last year's format. I like the open bracket too so you can have someone like leenock make an open bracket run and win it.
Yeah, last years format was a side show, with stupid eSF and Kespa only brackets to assure they qualified to be seeded directly into group play. It provided unfair advantages to players who did not earn them and did everything it could to seed "big names" into group play. Players who had to go through the open bracket got the shaft for no other reason than they couldn't make deals with MLG to be seeded into the event.
you're really gonna say the Koreans didn't deserve to make it though when there also were brackets that ensured EU and especially NA players making it through? i agree that the format sucked, but the Koreans were not the ones that didn't deserve to be there.
If they are that good, they can slog through the open bracket just like everyone else. I know that some people get very upset at the concept of Innovation or Flash having to dirty their hands by playing in the open bracket against "unworthy opponents", but any other system is just unfair and not real competition.
On June 01 2013 03:57 Shiori wrote: [quote] Considering hotel + flight + nowhere near guaranteed that you'll get first, let alone top 3, then yeah, 10k isn't enough to justify a trip from Korea.
Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
What's funny is Koreans will win anyway. Just the mid-tier ones on foreign teams. It's a gift to Axiom, Liquid and EG.
This is a weird discussion because I am not really sure what you folks want? Do you want an all invite event where they import all of the top Korean players for the weekend?
Not sure what's so hard to understand. I want last year's format. Open bracket plus korean seeds for group play. You're trying to push an extreme system of invite only system with top koreans as a counter argument, when no one argued that. We already had the perfect format last year at mlgs.
So you want an unfair event that favors players from Korea on teams that have deals with MGL to secure the seeds in to group play? Why not just cut out the open bracket and stop that side show? Its not like it really matters in that format, since the players seeded into group play have to play one third of the games.
Yup, I loved last year's format. I like the open bracket too so you can have someone like leenock make an open bracket run and win it.
Yeah, last years format was a side show, with stupid eSF and Kespa only brackets to assure they qualified to be seeded directly into group play. It provided unfair advantages to players who did not earn them and did everything it could to seed "big names" into group play. Players who had to go through the open bracket got the shaft for no other reason than they couldn't make deals with MLG to be seeded into the event.
You call it a side show. I call it the main attraction and the reason to tune into the event.
He makes a good point though. I like the idea of players competing under the same tournament. The KeSPA tournament were pretty much show matches and a stand alone. This doesn't mean I'm not open to a Major League/Minor League layout because I did write about that in my Manifesto, but the principle is different because the Major League is only for pro's who qualify and the minor league would be for amateurs/pro's who didn't qualify.
On June 01 2013 03:59 Plansix wrote: [quote] Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
What's funny is Koreans will win anyway. Just the mid-tier ones on foreign teams. It's a gift to Axiom, Liquid and EG.
This is a weird discussion because I am not really sure what you folks want? Do you want an all invite event where they import all of the top Korean players for the weekend?
Not sure what's so hard to understand. I want last year's format. Open bracket plus korean seeds for group play. You're trying to push an extreme system of invite only system with top koreans as a counter argument, when no one argued that. We already had the perfect format last year at mlgs.
So you want an unfair event that favors players from Korea on teams that have deals with MGL to secure the seeds in to group play? Why not just cut out the open bracket and stop that side show? Its not like it really matters in that format, since the players seeded into group play have to play one third of the games.
Yup, I loved last year's format. I like the open bracket too so you can have someone like leenock make an open bracket run and win it.
Yeah, last years format was a side show, with stupid eSF and Kespa only brackets to assure they qualified to be seeded directly into group play. It provided unfair advantages to players who did not earn them and did everything it could to seed "big names" into group play. Players who had to go through the open bracket got the shaft for no other reason than they couldn't make deals with MLG to be seeded into the event.
you're really gonna say the Koreans didn't deserve to make it though when there also were brackets that ensured EU and especially NA players making it through? i agree that the format sucked, but the Koreans were not the ones that didn't deserve to be there.
If they are that good, they can slog through the open bracket just like everyone else. I know that some people get very upset at the concept of Innovation or Flash having to dirty their hands by playing in the open bracket against "unworthy opponents", but any other system is just unfair and not real competition.
On June 01 2013 03:59 Plansix wrote: [quote] Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
What's funny is Koreans will win anyway. Just the mid-tier ones on foreign teams. It's a gift to Axiom, Liquid and EG.
This is a weird discussion because I am not really sure what you folks want? Do you want an all invite event where they import all of the top Korean players for the weekend?
Not sure what's so hard to understand. I want last year's format. Open bracket plus korean seeds for group play. You're trying to push an extreme system of invite only system with top koreans as a counter argument, when no one argued that. We already had the perfect format last year at mlgs.
So you want an unfair event that favors players from Korea on teams that have deals with MGL to secure the seeds in to group play? Why not just cut out the open bracket and stop that side show? Its not like it really matters in that format, since the players seeded into group play have to play one third of the games.
Yup, I loved last year's format. I like the open bracket too so you can have someone like leenock make an open bracket run and win it.
Yeah, last years format was a side show, with stupid eSF and Kespa only brackets to assure they qualified to be seeded directly into group play. It provided unfair advantages to players who did not earn them and did everything it could to seed "big names" into group play. Players who had to go through the open bracket got the shaft for no other reason than they couldn't make deals with MLG to be seeded into the event.
you're really gonna say the Koreans didn't deserve to make it though when there also were brackets that ensured EU and especially NA players making it through? i agree that the format sucked, but the Koreans were not the ones that didn't deserve to be there.
If they are that good, they can slog through the open bracket just like everyone else. I know that some people get very upset at the concept of Innovation or Flash having to dirty their hands by playing in the open bracket against "unworthy opponents", but any other system is just unfair and not real competition.
that's a fair point, but you have to realize how much bigger of a commitment going to an MLG is for a Korean player compared to an American or even a European player. if you remember, for a long time there were close to no Europeans at MLGs and the field was therefore full of Koreans and sacrifical lambs, err, i mean Americans. the tournaments to take place in NA. you can't really expect people fly over all the way from South Korea, paying for flights, hotels etc to get a chance at working their way through a huge open bracket that then brings them into a championship bracket where they have somewhat of a chance of getting a good finish.
All of the people who fought for and defended the idea of having Koreans in foreign tournaments can be thanked for the diminished MLG prize pool and stream count.
The prize pool matters so much because we will be winning it right? heh
Also we should just be happy there is any SC2 at all.
I think if Sundance didn't think it would be gigantically bad PR he would have dropped SC2 and went mix of LoL and CoD:Ghosts. This was the big compromise, less losses, no large footprint and no news story "SC2 dropped from MLG, Blizzard shaken as they got backstabbed by their partner"
On June 01 2013 04:56 jdsowa wrote: All of the people who fought for and defended the idea of having Koreans in foreign tournaments can be thanked for the diminished MLG prize pool and stream count.
Congratulations, the silliest statement of the thread.
Would you mind backing this up with, you know, anything?
On June 01 2013 04:56 jdsowa wrote: All of the people who fought for and defended the idea of having Koreans in foreign tournaments can be thanked for the diminished MLG prize pool and stream count.
Congratulations, the silliest statement of the thread.
Would you mind backing this up with, you know, anything?
Most of the foreign personalities that drove interest in the early part of this game's life span have been forced to effectively retire from competition or have been relegated to irrelevancy after the influx of Koreans to foreign tournaments. The people who were vocal in their support of this influx were very short-sighted, as far as the business aspect of SC2 was concerned.
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