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New extremely fast injection method - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Qwyn
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2779 Posts
May 12 2013 18:36 GMT
#81
On May 13 2013 03:16 Csong wrote:
Isn't this vibes hotkey method?


No, he now uses camera keys because he wanted to elevate his gameplay. He noticed how smooth Korean gameplay is with camera hotkeys and contrasted that to his own, which was much less clean due to base camera, and so he decided to use camera hotkeys.

He's much cleaner and more precise now as a result.
"Think of the hysteria following the realization that they consciously consume babies and raise the dead people from their graves" - N0
digmouse
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
China6330 Posts
May 12 2013 18:39 GMT
#82
Can you hold Ctrl and cycle Q-W-E to do this? If yes then it is indeed very fast.
TranslatorIf you want to ask anything about Chinese esports, send me a PM or follow me @nerddigmouse.
Roachu
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden692 Posts
May 12 2013 18:40 GMT
#83
If I understood the method correctly, this seems blisteringly fast. I mean to the point the whole Spawn Larvae mechanic becomes too easy.
Don't be asshats
_SpiRaL_
Profile Joined December 2012
Afghanistan1636 Posts
May 12 2013 18:44 GMT
#84
On May 13 2013 02:02 Alejandrisha wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2013 01:55 _SpiRaL_ wrote:
On May 13 2013 01:14 Alejandrisha wrote:
On May 13 2013 00:57 mango_destroyer wrote:
This is cool for those who prefer the backspace method.

I still prefer the korean style of hotkeying individual hatches though (+ screen locations). Sure it might be a second slower when cycling injects, but you have control to create units or set rally at specific individual hatches quickly. I guess it comes down to what people find is more beneficial through the game, but seeing some of the top pro zergs who can do very well without backspace method, leads me to believe it isn`t worth giving up the other benefits of using another method.


no top level player uses base cam because it is an inefficient crutch.

base cam is only used by lower-level players because it's easier to have 1 key to move from base to base rather than 3 to 4, which is what screen hotkeys give you.

if lower-level players who use base cam are not serious about improving much, then it's fine for them to stay on the base cam method. but if they want to get better, they have to give up base cam at some point.

base cam is a bad habit-- much like you might pick up in a golf/baseball swing if you were taught the wrong way. as in taught the wrong mechanics (self-taught or not). base cam is a jerk in your swing, that gives the illusion of speed. while it looks and feels 'fast,' the chaos of base cam equates to spinning one's wheels in place.

Take a zerg on 4 base with 2 macro hatches--

with base cam, cycling through each hatch makes it so you are GUARANTEED to waste two strokes by cycling through hatcheries that can already be seen if each base was camera-key bound. And if you tab through your hatches and land in the wrong spot, it also takes you a second to realize you haven't made the 'correct' jump, and then you need to correct it.

the power of screen hotkeys for injects is that it is STANDARDIZED. Every time i hit f1, it brings me to my main; every time i hit f2 it brings me to my nat and so forth.

there are several methods to move the camera in sc2, and they are ranked by order of efficiency here:
1. screen hotkey (1 click/keystroke for 1 unique screen)
2. unit/individual building hotkey (2 keystrokes for 1 unique screen)
3. clicking minimap (the correct way to place the camera on a space that you don't have a hotkeyed unit/screen)
4. edge scrolling + base cam (edge scrolling is ranked low because it is slower than clicking the minimap for the same end; base cam is ranked low because it's x amount of clicks/keystrokes for multiple unique screens)

if you use the base cam to inject, that bad habit will bleed into the rest of your play. if you want to quickly jump to a base in order to react to a drop, you might cycle through your bases until you get to the right one instead of clicking on the minimap. so, you may end up using the most inefficient way to move the camera to a specific location as a habit, and explicitly restrict yourself from using method 2 (since if you are using base cam, I assume you don't have individual hatcheries hotkeyed by default)

i could go on and on about how the base cam is even worse than i've depicted above, but there is no point.
if you want to improve, + Show Spoiler +
STOP USING BASE CAM


Many korean pros use backspace. For example I am watching Hyun stream right now and he does it. So do many others.


do you know that for a fact? looks like screen hot keys to me

edit: 100% screen hotkey. and who is 'many others?'


Haha I asked him in his stream chat and he specifically said he uses backspace rebound to spacebar.....
Red and yellow are all I see
_SpiRaL_
Profile Joined December 2012
Afghanistan1636 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-12 18:45:48
May 12 2013 18:45 GMT
#85
On May 13 2013 02:31 Alejandrisha wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2013 02:22 mango_destroyer wrote:
On May 13 2013 01:55 _SpiRaL_ wrote:


Many korean pros use backspace. For example I am watching Hyun stream right now and he does it. So do many others.


I have yet to see ONE korean zerg pro use that method...

to lower players base cam looks like screen hotkey so when they use base cam hotkey to 'look' like they are as fast, they think that it's true. it's a vicious cycle of poor mechanics and queen inject threads.



Nice arrogance. Here it is straight from the horses mouth: Hyun uses backspace inject. You don;t believe me? Go ask him. I did and that's what he said. Anyone in his stream chat earlier can verify.
Red and yellow are all I see
Qwyn
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2779 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-12 18:54:03
May 12 2013 18:52 GMT
#86
On May 13 2013 03:40 Roachu wrote:
If I understood the method correctly, this seems blisteringly fast. I mean to the point the whole Spawn Larvae mechanic becomes too easy.


Well, it still bears with it all the problems of base camera, those being:

1. Queens must be synchronized to prevent wandering/retarded queens. If even one queen has less than 25 energy then wandering/retarded queen syndrome will occur.
2. You must have one queen per hatch in order to prevent wandering/retarded queens. If you do not then wandering/retarded queen syndrome will occur, depending on how many hatches you cycled through to inject that do not have queens. EX: I have two bases and 2 macro hatches. If I cycle through all 4 then both queens will go full retard.
3. Base camera is inflexible as a drop response/base management tool. Because the order of bases is determined by their proximity to each other rather than a pre-defined order, this results in many wasted key strokes.
4. Base camera forces you to be inflexible with your queens. Because you must have a predefined quantity of queens available (one per hatch) you cannot start adding/subtracting queens from your queen hotkey - doing so threatens a full on retard queen pandemic.
5. Stop movement is an imprecise and inelegant technique to keep retard queen syndrome from happening. If you use it there is no guarantee that all your hatches were injected (this depending entirely on the chance element that your base cam/cycle has a perfect order). Second, in order to correct the mistakes left by stop movement, you must cycle through your bases (a waste of keystrokes, because you cycle through those bases that have been injected in addition to those that have not) and inject remaining hatcheries.

The biggest and most noticeable problem of the base camera method? It is inefficient. It ends up wasting more time than it saves. It ends up being more inefficient than simply injecting all your hatches with individual queens (which, once practiced, is JUST as fast). The most difficult component of injecting is not the actual injection process - it is the amount of delay between injects.

Don't get me wrong - I used base camera inject (spacebar) for over a year. I learned it from ViBE. But the best change you can make is moving on to camera key injects. Even ViBE, who used base camera for as long as I can remember, has switched over to camera key injects.
"Think of the hysteria following the realization that they consciously consume babies and raise the dead people from their graves" - N0
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
May 12 2013 18:54 GMT
#87
On May 13 2013 03:45 _SpiRaL_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2013 02:31 Alejandrisha wrote:
On May 13 2013 02:22 mango_destroyer wrote:
On May 13 2013 01:55 _SpiRaL_ wrote:


Many korean pros use backspace. For example I am watching Hyun stream right now and he does it. So do many others.


I have yet to see ONE korean zerg pro use that method...

to lower players base cam looks like screen hotkey so when they use base cam hotkey to 'look' like they are as fast, they think that it's true. it's a vicious cycle of poor mechanics and queen inject threads.



Nice arrogance. Here it is straight from the horses mouth: Hyun uses backspace inject. You don;t believe me? Go ask him. I did and that's what he said. Anyone in his stream chat earlier can verify.


i just watched him go from his main to his nat to his main.. how do you do that with backspace ?
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
Naemesis
Profile Joined April 2013
Netherlands24 Posts
May 12 2013 18:55 GMT
#88
On May 13 2013 03:39 digmouse wrote:
Can you hold Ctrl and cycle Q-W-E to do this? If yes then it is indeed very fast.

Yes, you can. You can also just use any other combination of 3 keys, no need for ctrl even.
Naemesis
Profile Joined April 2013
Netherlands24 Posts
May 12 2013 18:56 GMT
#89
On May 13 2013 03:54 Alejandrisha wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2013 03:45 _SpiRaL_ wrote:
On May 13 2013 02:31 Alejandrisha wrote:
On May 13 2013 02:22 mango_destroyer wrote:
On May 13 2013 01:55 _SpiRaL_ wrote:


Many korean pros use backspace. For example I am watching Hyun stream right now and he does it. So do many others.


I have yet to see ONE korean zerg pro use that method...

to lower players base cam looks like screen hotkey so when they use base cam hotkey to 'look' like they are as fast, they think that it's true. it's a vicious cycle of poor mechanics and queen inject threads.



Nice arrogance. Here it is straight from the horses mouth: Hyun uses backspace inject. You don;t believe me? Go ask him. I did and that's what he said. Anyone in his stream chat earlier can verify.


i just watched him go from his main to his nat to his main.. how do you do that with backspace ?

You can use the backspace method for injecting and at the same time use camera hotkeys for all your bases to defend drops/check saturation/whatever.
_SpiRaL_
Profile Joined December 2012
Afghanistan1636 Posts
May 12 2013 18:56 GMT
#90
On May 13 2013 03:54 Alejandrisha wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2013 03:45 _SpiRaL_ wrote:
On May 13 2013 02:31 Alejandrisha wrote:
On May 13 2013 02:22 mango_destroyer wrote:
On May 13 2013 01:55 _SpiRaL_ wrote:


Many korean pros use backspace. For example I am watching Hyun stream right now and he does it. So do many others.


I have yet to see ONE korean zerg pro use that method...

to lower players base cam looks like screen hotkey so when they use base cam hotkey to 'look' like they are as fast, they think that it's true. it's a vicious cycle of poor mechanics and queen inject threads.



Nice arrogance. Here it is straight from the horses mouth: Hyun uses backspace inject. You don;t believe me? Go ask him. I did and that's what he said. Anyone in his stream chat earlier can verify.


i just watched him go from his main to his nat to his main.. how do you do that with backspace ?


We are talking about inject method. Not whether he uses location in hotkeys in general. His inject method is backspace. Also he is not streaming right now how did you "just" watch this?
Red and yellow are all I see
Ben...
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada3485 Posts
May 12 2013 18:57 GMT
#91
On May 13 2013 03:54 Alejandrisha wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2013 03:45 _SpiRaL_ wrote:
On May 13 2013 02:31 Alejandrisha wrote:
On May 13 2013 02:22 mango_destroyer wrote:
On May 13 2013 01:55 _SpiRaL_ wrote:


Many korean pros use backspace. For example I am watching Hyun stream right now and he does it. So do many others.


I have yet to see ONE korean zerg pro use that method...

to lower players base cam looks like screen hotkey so when they use base cam hotkey to 'look' like they are as fast, they think that it's true. it's a vicious cycle of poor mechanics and queen inject threads.



Nice arrogance. Here it is straight from the horses mouth: Hyun uses backspace inject. You don;t believe me? Go ask him. I did and that's what he said. Anyone in his stream chat earlier can verify.


i just watched him go from his main to his nat to his main.. how do you do that with backspace ?
How many bases was he on? If he was on 2 then the backspace method would just switch between main and natural. If it was more than two bases then yeah he had to have been using screen hotkeys.
"Cliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide" -Tastosis
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-12 18:59:03
May 12 2013 18:58 GMT
#92
On May 13 2013 03:56 _SpiRaL_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2013 03:54 Alejandrisha wrote:
On May 13 2013 03:45 _SpiRaL_ wrote:
On May 13 2013 02:31 Alejandrisha wrote:
On May 13 2013 02:22 mango_destroyer wrote:
On May 13 2013 01:55 _SpiRaL_ wrote:


Many korean pros use backspace. For example I am watching Hyun stream right now and he does it. So do many others.


I have yet to see ONE korean zerg pro use that method...

to lower players base cam looks like screen hotkey so when they use base cam hotkey to 'look' like they are as fast, they think that it's true. it's a vicious cycle of poor mechanics and queen inject threads.



Nice arrogance. Here it is straight from the horses mouth: Hyun uses backspace inject. You don;t believe me? Go ask him. I did and that's what he said. Anyone in his stream chat earlier can verify.


i just watched him go from his main to his nat to his main.. how do you do that with backspace ?


We are talking about inject method. Not whether he uses location in hotkeys in general. His inject method is backspace. Also he is not streaming right now how did you "just" watch this?


i watched his stream after you first posted to check it out, and that is what i saw. if he does use backspace, he obviously incorporate screen hotkeys for control. while i might sound like i'm back pedaling, he has his own style and is a very successful kr player and not some one who is learning. if you want to learn, using base cam + screen hotkeys is going to be overwhelming, so why not pick the more efficient one?

On May 13 2013 03:57 Ben... wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2013 03:54 Alejandrisha wrote:
On May 13 2013 03:45 _SpiRaL_ wrote:
On May 13 2013 02:31 Alejandrisha wrote:
On May 13 2013 02:22 mango_destroyer wrote:
On May 13 2013 01:55 _SpiRaL_ wrote:


Many korean pros use backspace. For example I am watching Hyun stream right now and he does it. So do many others.


I have yet to see ONE korean zerg pro use that method...

to lower players base cam looks like screen hotkey so when they use base cam hotkey to 'look' like they are as fast, they think that it's true. it's a vicious cycle of poor mechanics and queen inject threads.



Nice arrogance. Here it is straight from the horses mouth: Hyun uses backspace inject. You don;t believe me? Go ask him. I did and that's what he said. Anyone in his stream chat earlier can verify.


i just watched him go from his main to his nat to his main.. how do you do that with backspace ?
How many bases was he on? If he was on 2 then the backspace method would just switch between main and natural. If it was more than two bases then yeah he had to have been using screen hotkeys.


he was on 3
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
Xenomorph
Profile Joined May 2010
United States137 Posts
May 12 2013 19:02 GMT
#93
Isn't the minimap trick faster than this?
Intrepid Traveler
Naemesis
Profile Joined April 2013
Netherlands24 Posts
May 12 2013 19:04 GMT
#94
On May 13 2013 04:02 Xenomorph wrote:
Isn't the minimap trick faster than this?

You mean injecting by clicking the minimap? No, I strongly believe this is much faster.
Semar
Profile Joined September 2012
Austria1 Post
Last Edited: 2013-05-12 19:06:32
May 12 2013 19:04 GMT
#95
I use a similar method;
Select all my Queens; Inject and Choose Ability at the same key; Holding down the Injectkey and move the Mousecursor over
the minimap, targeting the hatcheries.
In this case, you just need 2 keys to injecting all your hatcheries
1. Hotkey: all Queens
2. Hotkey: Inject
MrMedic
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada452 Posts
May 12 2013 19:07 GMT
#96
I just use tab instead of backspace, it makes it much easier for me then using backspace.
Naemesis
Profile Joined April 2013
Netherlands24 Posts
May 12 2013 19:13 GMT
#97
On May 13 2013 04:07 MrMedic wrote:
I just use tab instead of backspace, it makes it much easier for me then using backspace.

[image loading]

User was warned for this post
Naemesis
Profile Joined April 2013
Netherlands24 Posts
May 12 2013 19:13 GMT
#98
On May 13 2013 04:04 Semar wrote:
I use a similar method;
Select all my Queens; Inject and Choose Ability at the same key; Holding down the Injectkey and move the Mousecursor over
the minimap, targeting the hatcheries.
In this case, you just need 2 keys to injecting all your hatcheries
1. Hotkey: all Queens
2. Hotkey: Inject

This is a pretty neat trick as well but I'd say there's a lot more room for error especially when you're on a substantial amount of bases.
MangoNinja
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada13 Posts
May 12 2013 23:04 GMT
#99
Has this worked for anyone ??? or am I doing this wrong ? Whenever I try this method, I can't get one of the two. Either my injection won't work cuz the base camera is cycling or the base camera isn't working but my injection is.

It would seem that one of the two cancels one of the other out.

Any solutions ?
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
May 12 2013 23:37 GMT
#100
I just use f1-f4 for bases, have my queens on the same hotkey, and go f1 q, f2 q, etc.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
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