On May 12 2013 23:26 takingbackoj wrote: I don't know how many of you actually watch any other actual sports but I myself am an avid sports nut. I love the NFL and also watch Hockey and basketball regularly.
When fans step out of line in any sport, athletes will sometimes put them in check. When walking off the court to the locker room, NBA players will curse right back at fans that get out of line. Get on twitter and you will see plenty of NFL players "disrespecting" fans as some of you call it. This is not unusual.
Big difference being is that these e-sports players have a larger internet presence. They deal with the fans more frequently and more directly. And compared to most athletic based sports, e-sports has a much larger under-18 following. The amount of crap these guys are subjected to, a lot of times by children, is insane. Then they have to worry about these same children calling their sponsors directly and complaining over everything under the sun. Go try to call Gronkowski's sponsers and see what happens, or Sergio Garcia's or Albert Puljos. The whole thing is a joke and the sensitivity of e-sports fans is laughable.
Who here has actually been emotionally pained by anything Idra has done? The guy, like every e-sports competitor has to interact with great fans that just want to watch their favorite players play their favorite game. But the also have to deal with a legion of childish idiots that make their lives harder by threatening to complain to their sponsors, or flame their chats, or insult them at every turn under the veil of complete anonymity. No other athlete has to deal with the amount of crap these guys do particularly from children that are looking for a reason to complain.
People need to grow up or shut up really. These guys are trying to make a living, if you don't like what they say then go find another stream to watch, or ignore their posts. Its not like the guy said anything sexist or racist nor did he threaten anyone. He called it like he saw it and the truth hurt some feelings.
True people need to grow up and have thicker skin, but your comparison is absolutely shit. Pro athletes have lost sponsorships for what he has done. They have lost their position on their team as well. In the end though I really don't think what he said was worth removal from the team, but then again I really didn't want to see him try like he does only to be burdened by a mental block as well. I'm kind-of glad he took this route, but I would have preferred if he was removed from the team and said fuck it, I don't care if I hate this fucking game, going to WCS Korea and dominated.
True people need to grow up and have thicker skin, but your comparison is absolutely shit. Pro athletes have lost sponsorships for what he has done. They have lost their position on their team as well. In the end though I really don't think what he said was worth removal from the team, but then again I really didn't want to see him try like he does only to be burdened by a mental block as well. I'm kind-of glad he took this route, but I would have preferred if he was removed from the team and said fuck it, I don't care if I hate this fucking game, going to WCS Korea and dominated.
Pro athletes have lost sponsorships for racist remarks or cheating on their wives or criminal activity. No pro athlete has ever lost a sponsorship for telling fans (I use that term loosely considering most people just argue with Idra with the intent to set him off) off. What Idra said wouldn't even register in the sports world.
Most people would just be thrilled that an athlete acknowledge their existence and entered into a discussion with them. But not this group.
On May 12 2013 23:26 takingbackoj wrote: I don't know how many of you actually watch any other actual sports but I myself am an avid sports nut. I love the NFL and also watch Hockey and basketball regularly.
When fans step out of line in any sport, athletes will sometimes put them in check. When walking off the court to the locker room, NBA players will curse right back at fans that get out of line. Get on twitter and you will see plenty of NFL players "disrespecting" fans as some of you call it. This is not unusual.
Big difference being is that these e-sports players have a larger internet presence. They deal with the fans more frequently and more directly. And compared to most athletic based sports, e-sports has a much larger under-18 following. The amount of crap these guys are subjected to, a lot of times by children, is insane. Then they have to worry about these same children calling their sponsors directly and complaining over everything under the sun. Go try to call Gronkowski's sponsers and see what happens, or Sergio Garcia's or Albert Puljos. The whole thing is a joke and the sensitivity of e-sports fans is laughable.
Who here has actually been emotionally pained by anything Idra has done? The guy, like every e-sports competitor has to interact with great fans that just want to watch their favorite players play their favorite game. But the also have to deal with a legion of childish idiots that make their lives harder by threatening to complain to their sponsors, or flame their chats, or insult them at every turn under the veil of complete anonymity. No other athlete has to deal with the amount of crap these guys do particularly from children that are looking for a reason to complain.
People need to grow up or shut up really. These guys are trying to make a living, if you don't like what they say then go find another stream to watch, or ignore their posts. Its not like the guy said anything sexist or racist nor did he threaten anyone. He called it like he saw it and the truth hurt some feelings.
How about a pro athlete that gets a warning from their coach/manager and then 1 week later stomps all over that warning, pretty much telling the manager "hey your words don't mean shit" ? What if that pro athlete has also been behaving this way for 6 years with no sign of improvement, despite management paying for a sports psychologist mainly for him? What if this pro athlete is also no longer showing results that are worthy of mention, but is still being housed and paid by the management that he just shat on anyway?
Please tell me what pro athlete didn't get fired after all of the above thanks.
On May 12 2013 23:41 Jealous wrote: How about a pro athlete that gets a warning from their coach/manager and then 1 week later stomps all over that warning, pretty much telling the manager "hey your words don't mean shit" ? What if that pro athlete has also been behaving this way for 6 years with no sign of improvement, despite management paying for a sports psychologist mainly for him? What if this pro athlete is also no longer showing results that are worthy of mention, but is still being housed and paid by the management that he just shat on anyway?
Please tell me what pro athlete didn't get fired after all of the above thanks.
As you will notice, I didn't say anything about EG's decision to fire him in that post. Thats their business and their decision. My issue is with the childishness and the lack of appreciation from e-sports "fans" as a whole. You people are lucky the players actually decide to be so involved in the community at all.
But instead of being appreciative of it, we complain and call sponsors whenever they defend their beliefs in public forum. If I were a player I wouldn't even acknowledge "fans" for fear of losing my job if they decide they don't like what I say.
On May 12 2013 23:37 takingbackoj wrote: What Idra said wouldn't even register in the sports world. .
I think the difference is in the permanence. If someone says something to a fan off the cuff, it would probably not be a big deal. But this was more akin to a player, during a press conference, calling his entire fan base a bunch of fucks. That WOULD be the leading story in the sports news no doubt about it, and it would be a big deal.
It is the difference between telling one person to fuck off, and literally calling your entire fan base "fucks." Those aren't equivalent statements or actions. Indeed, Idra has told people to fuck off and it has made no splash at all. This was a different kind of statement.
On May 12 2013 23:41 Jealous wrote: How about a pro athlete that gets a warning from their coach/manager and then 1 week later stomps all over that warning, pretty much telling the manager "hey your words don't mean shit" ? What if that pro athlete has also been behaving this way for 6 years with no sign of improvement, despite management paying for a sports psychologist mainly for him? What if this pro athlete is also no longer showing results that are worthy of mention, but is still being housed and paid by the management that he just shat on anyway?
Please tell me what pro athlete didn't get fired after all of the above thanks.
As you will notice, I didn't say anything about EG's decision to fire him in that post. Thats their business and their decision. My issue is with the childishness and the lack of appreciation from e-sports "fans" as a whole. You people are lucky the players actually decide to be so involved in the community at all.
But instead of being appreciative of it, we complain and call sponsors whenever they defend their beliefs in public forum. If I were a player I wouldn't even acknowledge "fans" for fear of losing my job if they decide they don't like what I say.
Ok, true. I figured you were implying that him being fired was a result of the e-sport fan mentality, and that you disagree with the e-sport fan mentality, therefore you disagree with him being fired. Seemed like a safe assumption given your stance but I was mistaken.
I partially agree with you that this bullshit is bullshit, and that kids need to man the fuck up and stop bitching. However, I also think that in a time when e-sports is seen as a growing industry which has not yet reached what most e-sports fans consider its maximum potential, it is important for those fans to ensure a smoother ascent to legitimacy. That means potentially having stricter standards for their players, so that the sponsors don't have ANY reason to bow out or fire players, therefore bringing in more sponsors and more money until we have a stadium-sized SC2Bowl similar to Korea. At least, that's what I HOPE the mentality is.
Imo they were just waiting for an opportunity to fire him. Too high salary, low yields, and bad reputation no longer compensated by fame. Would have been better if Idra would have quit EG with no GG. lol
On May 12 2013 23:37 takingbackoj wrote: What Idra said wouldn't even register in the sports world. .
I think the difference is in the permanence. If someone says something to a fan off the cuff, it would probably not be a big deal. But this was more akin to a player, during a press conference, calling his entire fan base a bunch of fucks. That WOULD be the leading story in the sports news no doubt about it, and it would be a big deal.
It is the difference between telling one person to fuck off, and literally calling your entire fan base "fucks." Those aren't equivalent statements or actions. Indeed, Idra has told people to fuck off and it has made no splash at all. This was a different kind of statement.
I agree and it has happened plenty of times before. Eric Winston for the Chiefs last year felt disrespected by the fans and blasted them. Pacers George Hill called out Indiana fans just a month ago. Harrison Barnes did the same for Golden State fans. Brian Urlacher said "two people I don't care about are fans and media."
It happens all the time, maybe not with the whole "fucks" thing but athletes call out their fans frequently. Is it a story? Sure. Do the athletes take heat for it? Sometimes. But do they get fired over it? No. Because people understand that fans are not always respectful. They aren't always smart. They don't always know what they are talking about and they are often times annoying.
Again, the good news for most athletes is that they can completely ignore fans whenever they choose. They don't stream their games and read through their chat. They don't have to build their own personas up because someone does that for them. These guys have to deal with fans and should definitely be respectful to them as much as possible. But we must remember they are human beings and when pushed enough, anyone will snap occasionally.
On May 12 2013 23:37 takingbackoj wrote: What Idra said wouldn't even register in the sports world. .
I think the difference is in the permanence. If someone says something to a fan off the cuff, it would probably not be a big deal. But this was more akin to a player, during a press conference, calling his entire fan base a bunch of fucks. That WOULD be the leading story in the sports news no doubt about it, and it would be a big deal.
It is the difference between telling one person to fuck off, and literally calling your entire fan base "fucks." Those aren't equivalent statements or actions. Indeed, Idra has told people to fuck off and it has made no splash at all. This was a different kind of statement.
I agree and it has happened plenty of times before. Eric Winston for the Chiefs last year felt disrespected by the fans and blasted them. Pacers George Hill called out Indiana fans just a month ago. Harrison Barnes did the same for Golden State fans. Brian Urlacher said "two people I don't care about are fans and media."
It happens all the time, maybe not with the whole "fucks" thing but athletes call out their fans frequently. Is it a story? Sure. Do the athletes take heat for it? Sometimes. But do they get fired over it? No. Because people understand that fans are not always respectful. They aren't always smart. They don't always know what they are talking about and they are often times annoying.
Again, the good news for most athletes is that they can completely ignore fans whenever they choose. They don't stream their games and read through their chat. They don't have to build their own personas up because someone does that for them. These guys have to deal with fans and should definitely be respectful to them as much as possible. But we must remember they are human beings and when pushed enough, anyone will snap occasionally.
I agree with most of what you're saying but I think you're underestimating the role sponsors play for EG compared to pro sports. These sponsors are literally EG's lifeblood. If Tiger Woods held a press conference and said "You're all a bunch of fucks, and Nike pays me to treat you like it." Well...
On May 13 2013 00:17 Cyrak wrote: A pro athlete with results like Idra's would be out of a job or sent back to the minors so please stop making this stupid comparison.
It's not like he advanced from the group of death at BWC or anything 6 months ago
On May 13 2013 00:17 Cyrak wrote: A pro athlete with results like Idra's would be out of a job or sent back to the minors so please stop making this stupid comparison.
It's not like he advanced from the group of death at BWC or anything 6 months ago
6 month's is a loong time in internet time my dear boy. I love how every thread of with a pinch of popularity always divulges into these out-field comparison's in a pitiful attempt to make a 'point'.
Well the main difference between someone saying something like IdrA did in traditional sports is that, on the internet, nothing ever goes away. If an athlete trash talks someone on television it maybe gets quoted again but basically it's gone 5 seconds after it was said. On the internet nothing ever goes away. Someone from chat makes a screenshot , posts it on reddit, posts it here on teamliquid, on youtube, sends it to his friends and so on.
My point is that people should just let him be IdrA. Let him trash talk. Let him be who he is. It has nothing to do with them. They shouldn't witch hunt him and email sponsors to get him fired because that's what they did. They spammed the sponsors and became butthurt over a little comment and got him fired. Instead of calling for his firing because of not performing, these people decide to do it because of his personality. This is ESPORTS. This is ISN'T HOLLYWOOD. They are POLITICIANS. THEY ARE GAMERS. Firing people for what they say rather than how the play doesn't even make any sense.
Wrong.
Whoever gives the money sets the rules. And you are right in saying it's SPORTS. He's part of a TEAM. He is part of not only one brand (EG), but a lot of brands (all sponsors). So everything he says should be in line with the CI of all those people. Yes, that's hard, but it's business, and business IS hard. Play by the rules or get sacked.
Their only rule is that if the people get anxious, take the axes out. If you don't believe me, look at all the sports. Athletes say some horrific and immature things in private and public yet people don't get axed. That's because in those communities, people don't give two shits about what the athletes say. They only care about how good the play. At least, that's how all my sports friends are. It's the same logic with regular jobs. You have a guy who works hard, used to be really good and now isn't getting results. Something comes out about what that guy said. That something doesn't get much attention. The bosses realize that they can just ignore the issue and handle it quietly. They don't fire people if their image isn't at stake. Why do you think MLG "terminated" that admin when before they hadn't done such a thing. Because at that time, their image was being threatened. They took a course of action that they didn't take before and had people axed.
tiger woods. always great to fans, whole world bitched about private issues that were none of their business.best player in the world. not some random decent guy that just thinks hes the greatest.
tell the 2nd coworker to fuck off and you might have a problem. tell anyone with some say to fuckoff you are fired. tell a customer to fuck off and you are fired.
J.R. Smith talked about fucking a teenager on Twitter. The only response people said was "It's just Smith being Smith." Cause that's how he is.
IdrA didn't tell coworkers to fuck off. He raged at DeMusliM but that was it. So I don't where you got that from.
You're clearly failing to recognise one key point, the fans didnt get him sacked. Youre obviously very naive about business and how the real world works. And yes, I judged you.
My point is that people should just let him be IdrA. Let him trash talk. Let him be who he is. It has nothing to do with them. They shouldn't witch hunt him and email sponsors to get him fired because that's what they did. They spammed the sponsors and became butthurt over a little comment and got him fired. Instead of calling for his firing because of not performing, these people decide to do it because of his personality. This is ESPORTS. This is ISN'T HOLLYWOOD. They are POLITICIANS. THEY ARE GAMERS. Firing people for what they say rather than how the play doesn't even make any sense.
Wrong.
Whoever gives the money sets the rules. And you are right in saying it's SPORTS. He's part of a TEAM. He is part of not only one brand (EG), but a lot of brands (all sponsors). So everything he says should be in line with the CI of all those people. Yes, that's hard, but it's business, and business IS hard. Play by the rules or get sacked.
Their only rule is that if the people get anxious, take the axes out. If you don't believe me, look at all the sports. Athletes say some horrific and immature things in private and public yet people don't get axed. That's because in those communities, people don't give two shits about what the athletes say. They only care about how good the play. At least, that's how all my sports friends are. It's the same logic with regular jobs. You have a guy who works hard, used to be really good and now isn't getting results. Something comes out about what that guy said. That something doesn't get much attention. The bosses realize that they can just ignore the issue and handle it quietly. They don't fire people if their image isn't at stake. Why do you think MLG "terminated" that admin when before they hadn't done such a thing. Because at that time, their image was being threatened. They took a course of action that they didn't take before and had people axed.
tiger woods. always great to fans, whole world bitched about private issues that were none of their business.best player in the world. not some random decent guy that just thinks hes the greatest.
tell the 2nd coworker to fuck off and you might have a problem. tell anyone with some say to fuckoff you are fired. tell a customer to fuck off and you are fired.
J.R. Smith talked about fucking a teenager on Twitter. The only response people said was "It's just Smith being Smith." Cause that's how he is.
IdrA didn't tell coworkers to fuck off. He raged at DeMusliM but that was it. So I don't where you got that from.
You're clearly failing to recognise one key point, the fans didnt get him sacked. Youre obviously very naive about business and how the real world works. And yes, I judged you.
You didn't watch the real-talk? It was quite obvious that the fans did get him fired at least from what Idra said. I doubt the sponsors review his postings on TL and watch his stream, so how else could the get that information? Sure, the individual fan didn't fire Idra, but they're the reason he is no longer at EG.
On May 13 2013 00:17 Cyrak wrote: A pro athlete with results like Idra's would be out of a job or sent back to the minors so please stop making this stupid comparison.
It's not like he advanced from the group of death at BWC or anything 6 months ago
6 month's is a loong time in internet time my dear boy. I love how every thread of with a pinch of popularity always divulges into these out-field comparison's in a pitiful attempt to make a 'point'.
sports =/= esports.
different rules, different protocols.
6 months isnt a long time when people are unanimously saying he hasn't had a result in years. Also the rules for esports may be different but the comparisons are just there to show how stupid this community is and the regular people don't have much reason to speak up so it probably will remain that way.
Edit: you should also avoid saying things like "dear boy", it makes you sound like a condescending jackass
On May 12 2013 23:41 Jealous wrote: How about a pro athlete that gets a warning from their coach/manager and then 1 week later stomps all over that warning, pretty much telling the manager "hey your words don't mean shit" ? What if that pro athlete has also been behaving this way for 6 years with no sign of improvement, despite management paying for a sports psychologist mainly for him? What if this pro athlete is also no longer showing results that are worthy of mention, but is still being housed and paid by the management that he just shat on anyway?
Please tell me what pro athlete didn't get fired after all of the above thanks.
As you will notice, I didn't say anything about EG's decision to fire him in that post. Thats their business and their decision. My issue is with the childishness and the lack of appreciation from e-sports "fans" as a whole. You people are lucky the players actually decide to be so involved in the community at all.
But instead of being appreciative of it, we complain and call sponsors whenever they defend their beliefs in public forum. If I were a player I wouldn't even acknowledge "fans" for fear of losing my job if they decide they don't like what I say.
Idra wasn't really a player, he said as much himself. If he failed in WCS he was going to pretty much stop being a pro player. He was going to move on to being a "personality" like Incontrol. He then lost in WCS, and proceeded to call everyone fucks. Right as he's about to stop being a player, and start being purely a community figure.
What a way to start being a community figure. By calling your potential audience fucks.
On May 11 2013 08:11 TheLunatic wrote: Lol, good bye, the kid is such a whiny bad mannered bitch. Major props to EG for finally stepping up to the plate. I could never be a fan of your team or even watch streams of your players thus supporting your team until you got rid of this guy. Now that he is gone I will view, and I will donate. Simply to show the right decision was made. The community should push for more respectable players and this is more than a thousand steps in the right direction. I cast my vote with views and my wallet and now eg has my support.
My point is that people should just let him be IdrA. Let him trash talk. Let him be who he is. It has nothing to do with them. They shouldn't witch hunt him and email sponsors to get him fired because that's what they did. They spammed the sponsors and became butthurt over a little comment and got him fired. Instead of calling for his firing because of not performing, these people decide to do it because of his personality. This is ESPORTS. This is ISN'T HOLLYWOOD. They are POLITICIANS. THEY ARE GAMERS. Firing people for what they say rather than how the play doesn't even make any sense.
Wrong.
Whoever gives the money sets the rules. And you are right in saying it's SPORTS. He's part of a TEAM. He is part of not only one brand (EG), but a lot of brands (all sponsors). So everything he says should be in line with the CI of all those people. Yes, that's hard, but it's business, and business IS hard. Play by the rules or get sacked.
Their only rule is that if the people get anxious, take the axes out. If you don't believe me, look at all the sports. Athletes say some horrific and immature things in private and public yet people don't get axed. That's because in those communities, people don't give two shits about what the athletes say. They only care about how good the play. At least, that's how all my sports friends are. It's the same logic with regular jobs. You have a guy who works hard, used to be really good and now isn't getting results. Something comes out about what that guy said. That something doesn't get much attention. The bosses realize that they can just ignore the issue and handle it quietly. They don't fire people if their image isn't at stake. Why do you think MLG "terminated" that admin when before they hadn't done such a thing. Because at that time, their image was being threatened. They took a course of action that they didn't take before and had people axed.
tiger woods. always great to fans, whole world bitched about private issues that were none of their business.best player in the world. not some random decent guy that just thinks hes the greatest.
tell the 2nd coworker to fuck off and you might have a problem. tell anyone with some say to fuckoff you are fired. tell a customer to fuck off and you are fired.
J.R. Smith talked about fucking a teenager on Twitter. The only response people said was "It's just Smith being Smith." Cause that's how he is.
IdrA didn't tell coworkers to fuck off. He raged at DeMusliM but that was it. So I don't where you got that from.
You're clearly failing to recognise one key point, the fans didnt get him sacked. Youre obviously very naive about business and how the real world works. And yes, I judged you.
You didn't watch the real-talk? It was quite obvious that the fans did get him fired at least from what Idra said. I doubt the sponsors review his postings on TL and watch his stream, so how else could the get that information? Sure, the individual fan didn't fire Idra, but they're the reason he is no longer at EG.
No, Idra is the reason he is no longer with EG. Why blame the 'fan', when Idra, EG and sponsors all had a role in this.
The chain pretty much goes Idra - fan/community - sponsor - EG - Idra. So why just blame the community? The sponsors could have ignore the community, EG could have ignored the sponsors. They didn't do it because there would be consequences. Same when Idra decided to be 'real' with the community.
EPT
