On May 10 2013 17:29 tomatriedes wrote: Idra being Idra I can't see him being willing to take a salary cut to keep playing a game he's not very enthusiastic about and what non-Korean team can possibly match what EG was paying him?
Are you implying that Korean teams can match what EG was paying him or am I just misunderstanding your comment. As far as outside of Korea goes, yeah EG had the best facilities and he screwed it up.
Most Korean teams can easily match IdrA's salary with EG, especially KeSPA teams.
i'd like to see what convinced you to think that ludicrous statement is even remotely true.
Or what Korean team is going to want to employ a player who quits a 200/200 game against Polt.
Please learn to understand the game..... Idra had already lost. He simply didn't want to take the off chance to take the fight and win by a nmiracle. Just PLESA learn to play before posting stupid statements like this
Im sorry but as long as you have a 200/200 army, mining bases and a bank, you can't say anyone has "lost".
If your opponent has one mining base more, can harrass you all game long without having a chance to do sth about it and continously poke your army with HSM you have pretty much lost. Of course, as i said, there wa a small chance he could have somehow made it and I agree that he should have stay and at least tried something. However, his chances of winning were like non existent
I agree with you but it's not like Idra was dead. He had the checklist of max army, max upgrades and he was still mining. I'm not a pro gamer so I won't say something dumb like "he should of killed the 5 o clock and the middle right base, then rebuilt his destroyed hatcheries and won", but frankly there were ways to win that a better zerg would have discovered. For example actually being offensive and not just assuming that macroing safely will win you the game.
On May 10 2013 18:40 m4inbrain wrote: Hm.. The moment i start to like Idra (especially when he's not playing, funny enough - he's an awesome caster with alot of insight and actually pretty calm), this happens. It actually sucks.
Yeah, Idra said nasty stuff, Idra is a bad guy, blabla, while that is true (more or less) and i don't argue about that, he still is a person. Everyone leashes out at people every now and then, and in his "position" with so many (and there has the community a part as well) idiots talking trash to him, well.. From time to time i actually can understand him.
So many people here are crying that Idra is disrespectful and stuff, but seemingly forget that the community dishes out as much as he does - if not even more. Again, that may not justify his behaviour, but makes it understandable. To me at least, since i have the (seemingly) rare gift of being almost objective, sometimes.
Sad to see him go, and sad to see iNcontroL suffer because of that. On the other hand, it's "nice" to see that Idra has people who he can count on - you can see that there's a "guylove", and that's special (and rare).
Haters gonna hate, fanboys gonna fanboy, i'm just sad to see him go like this. EG should've given Idra the chance to retire on his own.
The problem is, because of his behavior and disrespect to a lot of players, fans, ppl that are doing a lot for the community, he simply asks for this. People here act like he is the next best thing since Jesus himself...yes he did a lot for foreign SC but you can't deny the fact that his bm and disrespect were far away from just being entertaining and funny. Plus, he didnt back it up with results either.
On May 10 2013 18:40 m4inbrain wrote: Hm.. The moment i start to like Idra (especially when he's not playing, funny enough - he's an awesome caster with alot of insight and actually pretty calm), this happens. It actually sucks.
Yeah, Idra said nasty stuff, Idra is a bad guy, blabla, while that is true (more or less) and i don't argue about that, he still is a person. Everyone leashes out at people every now and then, and in his "position" with so many (and there has the community a part as well) idiots talking trash to him, well.. From time to time i actually can understand him.
So many people here are crying that Idra is disrespectful and stuff, but seemingly forget that the community dishes out as much as he does - if not even more. Again, that may not justify his behaviour, but makes it understandable. To me at least, since i have the (seemingly) rare gift of being almost objective, sometimes.
Sad to see him go, and sad to see iNcontroL suffer because of that. On the other hand, it's "nice" to see that Idra has people who he can count on - you can see that there's a "guylove", and that's special (and rare).
Haters gonna hate, fanboys gonna fanboy, i'm just sad to see him go like this. EG should've given Idra the chance to retire on his own.
The problem is, because of his behavior and disrespect to a lot of players, fans, ppl that are doing a lot for the community, he simply asks for this. People here act like he is the next best thing since Jesus himself...yes he did a lot for foreign SC but you can't deny the fact that his bm and disrespect were far away from just being entertaining and funny. Plus, he didnt back it up with results either.
His BM had all the refinement of your common ladder troll.
On May 10 2013 17:29 tomatriedes wrote: Idra being Idra I can't see him being willing to take a salary cut to keep playing a game he's not very enthusiastic about and what non-Korean team can possibly match what EG was paying him?
Are you implying that Korean teams can match what EG was paying him or am I just misunderstanding your comment. As far as outside of Korea goes, yeah EG had the best facilities and he screwed it up.
Most Korean teams can easily match IdrA's salary with EG, especially KeSPA teams.
i'd like to see what convinced you to think that ludicrous statement is even remotely true.
Or what Korean team is going to want to employ a player who quits a 200/200 game against Polt.
Please learn to understand the game..... Idra had already lost. He simply didn't want to take the off chance to take the fight and win by a nmiracle. Just PLESA learn to play before posting stupid statements like this
Im sorry but as long as you have a 200/200 army, mining bases and a bank, you can't say anyone has "lost".
If your opponent has one mining base more, can harrass you all game long without having a chance to do sth about it and continously poke your army with HSM you have pretty much lost. Of course, as i said, there wa a small chance he could have somehow made it and I agree that he should have stay and at least tried something. However, his chances of winning were like non existent
I agree with you but it's not like Idra was dead. He had the checklist of max army, max upgrades and he was still mining. I'm not a pro gamer so I won't say something dumb like "he should of killed the 5 o clock and the middle right base, then rebuilt his destroyed hatcheries and won", but frankly there were ways to win that a better zerg would have discovered. For example actually being offensive and not just assuming that macroing safely will win you the game.
I am not a progamer either. But I am wondering how you propose being agressive here. There were PFs all over the place. Idra cannot just be aggressive. Either he commits everything to try and snipe bases, and leaves all of his expos vulnerable or he stays back home. If he DOES attack he will los every mining base in exchange for a single one of polts or his whole army may be caught in a choke when he retreats from his attack.
I understand that just macroing does not seem to be a good tactic, but there is not overly much a zerg can do in late game, expecially when your opponent is ahead in mining bases
On May 10 2013 18:05 GaNgStaRR.ElV wrote: After recommendations from people to check out Idra's WCS games I had a look.
I must say after that kind of behavior regardless of his comments in the EG thread I would have released him.
200/200 with 3k/3k bank, with a foothold on the 6 o clock base on Daybreak on Ultra/Infestor/Broodlord, and he ragequits because he can't handle being harassed?
When you take a collective look at everything this guy brings to Starcraft I hope he dissapears and never returns; he is an embarassment to this scene. He is definately our fallen angel.
Uh, foothold on the 6 oclock base? Guess you're the victim of bad observing -- the only player who had a foothold on 6 oclock when IdrA left the game was Polt. The minimap is your friend.
He had no chance to win that game, even after expending his 200 supply army and remaxing with 3k/3k. Zero. Zilch. Nada.
Funny because right at the end he runs away from it for 2 seconds because of hunter seekers but until that point he was camping that spot with a flock of broods, corrupters, infestors and ultras. Maybe its you who needs your eyes checked?
He was in the middle of the map, and Polt's army had moved in and killed it. Sorry bro, keep circlejerking on the hate train.
And then he had his army at that base for 5 minutes while Polt killed the 10 o clock. So he still had a foothold. Sorry bro keep hating.
???
The 6 oclock died after the 10 o clock died. Polt steamrolled it literally 5 seconds before IdrA left the game. The observers didn't catch it -- neither did you. Minimap. Useful.
'No chance of winning' is untrue, saw bigger comebacks and it was certainly possible with a more defensive stance.
Please explain how a defensive stance could have helped. Polt's army was too cost effective. He could have simply attacked and kept his production full speed. IdrA had one "good" army left, and it wasn't even that good. A 3k/3k remax wouldn't have done squat versus 3/3 Bio / Ravens and the infrastructure and economy to reproduce and constantly attack.
A Terran army can be worth nothing or worth a thousand times its costs. No one can say how the fight would have went. One good fungal on the ravens and you have no HSM to back up your army. That leaves you with an actually not very cost efficient army against Broodlord/Infestor/Ultra.
As I said, its simply the term of putting 'no chance' in it. He had a good bank and a good army, from that position, you can win a game. Polt had the clear advantage, but that doesn't mean its an unwinnable scenario. Even if you win from that position 1/10 times, its worth a shot, because its a major 100 000$ tournament.
If you have another opinion or take on it, thats fine for me, but as a matter of fact 'no chance' is the wrong term for his position.
I can't help but agree here. Polt definitely had the advantage, but it's very possible that he could have accidentally misclicked or mismicroed his units in a way that would have made Idra destroy his army. Zerg reproduces far faster than Terran, just a full army trade would also have been good for Idra there. Even if the chance for a victory were 5%, there really was no excuse to not take those 5% chances.
The whole debate regarding if IdrA could had won or not is retarded
A player has two responsibilities, one is to try to win no matter what, the second is to represent their sponsor as best as they can.
When you play in tournaments your goal is to do that which has the highest probability of winning and as far as I can tell leaving games has the smallest chance of someone actually winning. There were things IdrA could had done which would had given different probabilities of winning the game and quitting was the worse possible choice he could had done. The game was not unwinnable for IdrA.
Second is the way IdrA represented the sponsors. By quitting the game with 2.5k in bank, fully working bases and a 200/200 army he did a very poor reflection on his sponsors, even if it was a sure loss he could had stayed for the show and done some form of closure for the viewers where he would defend and try to find some way to win until he had 0 minerals and gas no army and had to pull drones before finally quitting.
On May 10 2013 17:29 tomatriedes wrote: Idra being Idra I can't see him being willing to take a salary cut to keep playing a game he's not very enthusiastic about and what non-Korean team can possibly match what EG was paying him?
Are you implying that Korean teams can match what EG was paying him or am I just misunderstanding your comment. As far as outside of Korea goes, yeah EG had the best facilities and he screwed it up.
Most Korean teams can easily match IdrA's salary with EG, especially KeSPA teams.
i'd like to see what convinced you to think that ludicrous statement is even remotely true.
Or what Korean team is going to want to employ a player who quits a 200/200 game against Polt.
Please learn to understand the game..... Idra had already lost. He simply didn't want to take the off chance to take the fight and win by a nmiracle. Just PLESA learn to play before posting stupid statements like this
Im sorry but as long as you have a 200/200 army, mining bases and a bank, you can't say anyone has "lost".
Always nice to see low-master criticize pro-gamers. Granted, there is always a chance to win.. His were extremely low and it WAS a disservice to fans but don't pretend like you understand the situation.
btw: ask ANYONE who seriously followed bw and sc2 (while they were active, not watched vods from years ago). Try to find one person who says sc2 is the better game.
There's nothing wrong with enjoying sc2, but it's simply the only competitive rts right now.. Being the only choice doesn't mean it's an objectively great game.
Ok,I seriously followed bw, wc3 and sc2, I think sc2 is the better game. Your extremely abstract statement means nothing because you just put words in people's mouths.
And I love how you subjectively write off my opinion based on your perceived opinion on my skill level, clearly all I have to do is beat you is take one advantage, thanks.
I never said Idra was in winning position but he should atleast have the bloody honor to go out like a man fighting, trying to capture that moment of brilliance, rather than just being an embarassment to the professionalism of esports.
So are you low-master? What years did you follow bw? I feel like you are just saying you did to prove me wrong.. I would like to hear reasons why you say sc2 is better? As far as the much larger foreign scene I can see that, but as far as quality of games/gameplay?
edit: Your opinion is the equivalent of someone preferring Godfather III over I, it's certainly possible and a few may share it but it just seems unlikely..
On May 10 2013 18:40 m4inbrain wrote: Hm.. The moment i start to like Idra (especially when he's not playing, funny enough - he's an awesome caster with alot of insight and actually pretty calm), this happens. It actually sucks.
Yeah, Idra said nasty stuff, Idra is a bad guy, blabla, while that is true (more or less) and i don't argue about that, he still is a person. Everyone leashes out at people every now and then, and in his "position" with so many (and there has the community a part as well) idiots talking trash to him, well.. From time to time i actually can understand him.
So many people here are crying that Idra is disrespectful and stuff, but seemingly forget that the community dishes out as much as he does - if not even more. Again, that may not justify his behaviour, but makes it understandable. To me at least, since i have the (seemingly) rare gift of being almost objective, sometimes.
Sad to see him go, and sad to see iNcontroL suffer because of that. On the other hand, it's "nice" to see that Idra has people who he can count on - you can see that there's a "guylove", and that's special (and rare).
Haters gonna hate, fanboys gonna fanboy, i'm just sad to see him go like this. EG should've given Idra the chance to retire on his own.
The problem is, because of his behavior and disrespect to a lot of players, fans, ppl that are doing a lot for the community, he simply asks for this. People here act like he is the next best thing since Jesus himself...yes he did a lot for foreign SC but you can't deny the fact that his bm and disrespect were far away from just being entertaining and funny. Plus, he didnt back it up with results either.
No. The problem in SC2 (and eSports in general) is the self-entitled community. A couple of months back i had a discussion with TotalBiscuit about that (in which he got temp banned/warned), and i start to realize that he may have a point. Of course, him BMing isn't a good thing. But guess what, it's not the end of the world. Racist stuff, that would be. Saying "fuck you"? Man, .. Meh. No, i won't start this discussion, since, well.. Yeah, no.
The one thing i would say: this community should judge itself before others. I'm not religious, but if you want to throw a stone, be sure that you're not a sinner yourself.
1. Idra race changes to Terran 2. Idra uses his saved up cash to fly to korea 3. iloveoov and Boxer decide to take him on as a protege 4. He joins SKT T1 5. He changes his name to Idrajit 6. He all-kills EG-TL in the finals of Proleague; SKT T1 vs EGTL
I understand the reasons why Evil Geniuses finally came to the decision to let IdrA go, but even with his bad reputation as a player I can't keep the disappointment hidden that I have. I started following the Broodwar scene especially because of seeing the young IdrA at the time doing so well in Korea, for a foreigner. I hate to see him let go like this and I sincerely hope that some team will have sympathy and offer him a place on their team. IdrA has great potential to be one of the greatest foreigners out there, but he has many obstacles to overcome first.
This looks like it may also be a sign for IdrA to retire from SC2 and pursue his career in theoretical physics. He must just think things through very thoroughly and make his next step with careful consideration.
On May 10 2013 18:55 gamerdude12345 wrote: What I predict will happen
1. Idra race changes to Terran 2. Idra uses his saved up cash to fly to korea 3. iloveoov and Boxer decide to take him on as a protege 4. He joins SKT T1 5. He changes his name to Idrajit 6. He all-kills EG-TL in the finals of Proleague; SKT T1 vs EGTL
EG-TL in the finals? We all would love that, but how in the world are they going to get to the finals with their current form?
On May 10 2013 18:44 teodoreh wrote: This thread should be analyzed by scientists in the future:
* People BMing towards IdrA because of his BM. No, that's not hypocritical at all.
* People claiming that they now support +500% EG while the truth is that those people never gave a crap about EG and nor they will in the future. On the other side, those people who actively supported EG because of Idra, will stop caring about EG - for real.
* People exaggerate like hell in order to prove their points! "Idra treated like crap DeMuslim and the team". LOL. It was an inhouse stupid joke of Demuslim. Do haters know better how things were on the EG lair? Because for as far I know, IdrA had very good relationship with his teammates.
* "IdrA was only going for the money". Actually IdrA criticized many sc2 celebrities (I think it was Day9 and/or Stephano) for going straight for the money on a couple of occasions. Talking about taking a statement of frustration and bending it to a point! Stephano was closing his stream in the past if he didn't get a decent number of viewers, and that's ok. Stephano was about to quit and stays for 6 months only to support his future studies, but it's IdrA who is going for the money. lol
* "Idra hates sc2". Does he? How many players have written something like "this game is shit" and still play and watch the streams? When you are in frustration of a loss (specially when ur IdrA) you may say several things you don't really mean.
* "IdrA's performance was poor". Well, IdrA in the past brought several good results to EG. Yes, he achieved nothing extraordinary for the last 1.5 year but how about other expensive contracts like HuK's?
* "EG couldn't keep tolerating his BM attitude". Aren't the same company that produced promotion events like "Who is the most evil Genius"?
* "Fanboys watch his stream only to troll or to whine together for balance". Oh really? Trolls and haters will always exist, but if you even tried to follow IdrA you would realize that a huge majority of users always asked one thing from him: To commentate. They didn't asked him to BM (that's a standard option) they asked him to analyze, to speak, because when he did, his stream was the #1 quality stream on the planet.
* "With the latest post, Idra insulted the whole community and his fanbase, and he treats them like shit". Well, that's what haters want to believe. It's the same people who will write a 500 word post because IdrA did hit his keyboard and lost a key after a loss on a tournament. The truth is, IdrA trashtalked to a troll - like he always did. The only problem was that IdrA is IdrA while the anonymous troll is some nobody that no one gives crap about.
* How many pages on TL about IdrA getting relelased from EG? 130? How about Twitter traffic? Yeah, he's definitely finished from the scene!
IdrA was the soul of EG. He was great promoter, VERY professional and respectful towards the sponsors (as I wrote before, can you claim the same for some other "pro" players of EG?).
I wish him the best to whatever he does, and as GOB said "EG made a huge mistake". Oh, and the fan made video!: ;D
Stop twisting shit. People reacting angrily is not the same as him saying what he said after throwing 4 games essentially.
You know what rubbed me the wrong way is how high incontrol held idra up in the air. So yeah I get he's your friend but that's exactly why I don't follow SC2 anymore when we value "characters" so much higher than they actually are. He posts a negative comment on reddit or twitter and people go insane? That's because he's an attention whore.
I'm tired of this soap opera for the small minded in this community. The phrase "I'm kind of a big deal on the internet" comes to mind. Noone really cares once life goes on.That's why the community is so fast jumping from one thing to another. Give this another week and no one cares that Idra got thrown out of EG. He commentated or played well? There's a mass of other players and commentators to step in that are much more willing to not shit on the community and their employers.
So yeah Incontrol he might be your friend. But your friend is kind of a fuck up. A little real world wouldn't hurt that guy.
Edit: And I'm fucking tired of the phrase that he was the best foreign BW player. Like that really meant something in Brood War. To the guys who didn't follow BW just SC2. That means he was barely good enough to get into ANY korean team as a b teamer.
On May 10 2013 18:55 gamerdude12345 wrote: What I predict will happen
1. Idra race changes to Terran 2. Idra uses his saved up cash to fly to korea 3. iloveoov and Boxer decide to take him on as a protege 4. He joins SKT T1 5. He changes his name to Idrajit 6. He all-kills EG-TL in the finals of Proleague; SKT T1 vs EGTL
On May 10 2013 17:29 tomatriedes wrote: Idra being Idra I can't see him being willing to take a salary cut to keep playing a game he's not very enthusiastic about and what non-Korean team can possibly match what EG was paying him?
Are you implying that Korean teams can match what EG was paying him or am I just misunderstanding your comment. As far as outside of Korea goes, yeah EG had the best facilities and he screwed it up.
Most Korean teams can easily match IdrA's salary with EG, especially KeSPA teams.
i'd like to see what convinced you to think that ludicrous statement is even remotely true.
Or what Korean team is going to want to employ a player who quits a 200/200 game against Polt.
Please learn to understand the game..... Idra had already lost. He simply didn't want to take the off chance to take the fight and win by a nmiracle. Just PLESA learn to play before posting stupid statements like this
Im sorry but as long as you have a 200/200 army, mining bases and a bank, you can't say anyone has "lost".
If your opponent has one mining base more, can harrass you all game long without having a chance to do sth about it and continously poke your army with HSM you have pretty much lost. Of course, as i said, there wa a small chance he could have somehow made it and I agree that he should have stay and at least tried something. However, his chances of winning were like non existent
With HotS the game has turned MUCH MORE harrass centered and people have to realize that they MUST build static defenses to get rid of or at least deter Medivacs and Oracles. If someone lets another player do that to him then he deserves to lose, but there are a ton of ways to shut down harrassment and they pretty much involve static defenses. Even if a Spore Crawler doesnt do anything against a Widow Mine it can detect them AND it shoots the Medivac which drops the mine. It also doesnt cost any gas, which is kinda rare in the early stages of the game. All it takes is accepting this fact and getting rid of the "static defenses are uncool" mantra from your general thinking.
----
As someone who used to rage and rant at every lost game I can say there is a way to get rid of that rage. For me the change happened when I was roughly 12 years old ... some decades ago. It might be a bit too late for IdrA now, but the rage is fueled by the will to win and the frustration of not winning. Take away the rage and you have to take a part of the NEED to win as well ... which also fuels determination to practice.
On May 10 2013 17:29 tomatriedes wrote: Idra being Idra I can't see him being willing to take a salary cut to keep playing a game he's not very enthusiastic about and what non-Korean team can possibly match what EG was paying him?
Are you implying that Korean teams can match what EG was paying him or am I just misunderstanding your comment. As far as outside of Korea goes, yeah EG had the best facilities and he screwed it up.
Most Korean teams can easily match IdrA's salary with EG, especially KeSPA teams.
i'd like to see what convinced you to think that ludicrous statement is even remotely true.
Or what Korean team is going to want to employ a player who quits a 200/200 game against Polt.
Please learn to understand the game..... Idra had already lost. He simply didn't want to take the off chance to take the fight and win by a nmiracle. Just PLESA learn to play before posting stupid statements like this
Im sorry but as long as you have a 200/200 army, mining bases and a bank, you can't say anyone has "lost".
Always nice to see low-master criticize pro-gamers. Granted, there is always a chance to win.. His were extremely low and it WAS a disservice to fans but don't pretend like you understand the situation.
btw: ask ANYONE who seriously followed bw and sc2 (while they were active, not watched vods from years ago). Try to find one person who says sc2 is the better game.
There's nothing wrong with enjoying sc2, but it's simply the only competitive rts right now.. Being the only choice doesn't mean it's an objectively great game.
Ok,I seriously followed bw, wc3 and sc2, I think sc2 is the better game. Your extremely abstract statement means nothing because you just put words in people's mouths.
And I love how you subjectively write off my opinion based on your perceived opinion on my skill level, clearly all I have to do is beat you is take one advantage, thanks.
I never said Idra was in winning position but he should atleast have the bloody honor to go out like a man fighting, trying to capture that moment of brilliance, rather than just being an embarassment to the professionalism of esports.
So are you low-master? What years did you follow bw? I feel like you are just saying you did to prove me wrong.. I would like to hear reasons why you say sc2 is better? As far as the much larger foreign scene I can see that, but as far as quality of games/gameplay?
edit: Your opinion is the equivalent of someone preferring Godfather III over I, it's certainly possible and a few may share it but it just seems unlikely..
He does not have to tell you this... Man those reavers they can't be suprior to thos skillfull cliffwalkers. Just a bad designed unit you have to get 2-3 upgrades not one and you have to click on them EVERY FUCKING time. Such a bad designed unit. Or those lurkers? A unit to play zerg proper defensivly without getting overrun by a mass of bio... such a bad designed unit. Spidermines? Sciencevessels? Scourges? Wraiths? VULTURES? ARBITERS? To many units that acctually make fucking sense in that they are totally awesome in transporting your micro-ability and that of the opponent into the game... Too much awesome for my eyes what a bad game this SC BW was.
EPT
