April win percentages - Page 8

On May 03 2013 21:29 Qwerty85 wrote:
It is a different game, zerg micro requirements are raised compared to TvZ in WoL. This will no doubt cause problems to many zergs that were considered very good before. I think TvZ is now much closer in terms of skill required on both parts and only the best of each race will do good.

Just look Innovation vs. Life. I dont remember watching such good TvZ in a long time. Just hope Blizzard doesn't interfere too soon and make it a "no rush 20min into deathball vs. deathball" matchup again.

As far as TvP goes, protoss seems a bit too strong in my opinion. Their early game is considerably stronger than in WoL and their lategame is still as good as ever before, if not better.

On May 03 2013 21:33 tomatriedes wrote:


TvP matchup is almost perfectly balanced at the moment according to these figures and you think that's a bad thing? What do you want? 60-40 terran favored, 80-20? What's going to make you happy?

On May 03 2013 21:37 Qwerty85 wrote:


I am talking about my impressions about the matchup. It is still too early in my opinion to look too much into those stats.
And you need to chill out a bit dude... There is frustration and anger all over your post. I dont see a reason for it.

On May 03 2013 22:05 tomatriedes wrote:


This is a thread about win rates. If you're not interested in discussing that you can post here instead:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=410578

And I do get annoyed with the amount of whining I see from terran players on this web site, when at the moment they're the most winningest race at tournament level.

On May 03 2013 22:23 Sissors wrote:
There is literally nothing that indicates TvZ atm is very T favored. These statistics (as said a million times before) are skewed due to WCS quals. Remove them and TvZ is roughly 50/50. That tells you at the very least the statistics lack significance. And for the pure Korean stats, if you are into that, it was also pretty close to 50/50.

And burrow mainly prevents terran from pressuring (which is the reason I am not a big fan of it, I like in general early pressure), well and roach all-in becomes stronger.

On May 03 2013 22:39 Sissors wrote:
I doubt roach pressure will become much stronger, roach all-in will. And at the same time it will really hurt terran pressure if quick burrow becomes popular, since there can always be burrowed banelings that can decimate your army. And no that isn't the same as widow mines since I can't send one marine ahead as suicide scout.

And oh the fun part about statistics, you can always find some which agree with your opinion. WCS Korea Challenger are zerg favored in ZvT, nerf zerg!11!!1!!1.

Here sheet that someone else made: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B76Yjrn8DAmfeWdpY0F0b1ByOEU/edit?pli=1. Woopdiedoop large imbalance nerf terran.

Add to that the fact that zerg needs longer to adapt to new metagames and there is no statistical reason to start nerfing races. (Reason for that is zerg production. Lets say we have a toss opponent. As terran I need to know roughly when he can have DTs out, and from when I should start watching for colossi, etc. But that all isn't very problematic. Now ZvP. The zerg will want to use pretty much all his larva's on drones + a few lings to sit outside the toss base. But they do need to switch in time to army production. So for a zerg it is much more important to know when exactly to switch to army production. As a terran I have to constantly produce army anyway to make optimal use of my production facilities. The result is that zerg is more affected by timings of the opponent than other races, so in a changing metagame they are behind).

On May 03 2013 22:46 Decendos wrote:


in your sheet if you take the top level code s and proleague its 59% winrate TvZ. so on the highest level there definetly is something wrong. its too early to tell if that will continue but if may looks the same its definetly time to nerf T, especially WMs since TvP is in a good shape.

On May 03 2013 22:46 Decendos wrote:


in your sheet if you take the top level code s and proleague its 59% winrate TvZ. so on the highest level there definetly is something wrong. its too early to tell if that will continue but if may looks the same its definetly time to nerf T, especially WMs since TvP is in a good shape.

On May 03 2013 22:57 Sissors wrote:

You literally want to base balance around the statistics around the top 30 players, and already the 30 players below that are considered irrelevant because they aren't good enough? Besides that it is kinda ridiculous to only balance for a few players, it also lacks any kind of statistical significance. If Life switches to WoT we should boost zerg and when he returns nerf zerg again?

On May 03 2013 22:23 Sissors wrote:
There is literally nothing that indicates TvZ atm is very T favored. These statistics (as said a million times before) are skewed due to WCS quals. Remove them and TvZ is roughly 50/50. That tells you at the very least the statistics lack significance. And for the pure Korean stats, if you are into that, it was also pretty close to 50/50.

And burrow mainly prevents terran from pressuring (which is the reason I am not a big fan of it, I like in general early pressure), well and roach all-in becomes stronger.