EPTI don't really want to have to spore up like crazy, I'd rather play smartly with more maneuverable units...
Blizzard's Potential Balance Test Map Changes - Page 29
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EvanC
Canada130 Posts
I don't really want to have to spore up like crazy, I'd rather play smartly with more maneuverable units... | ||
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WarrickHunt
United Kingdom393 Posts
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Patate
Canada441 Posts
BW was " balanced" for nearly 12 years because it was the player's skill vs the opponent's skill a lot more than the actual units used. | ||
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RyLai
United States477 Posts
And as we see Firebats used more and more, it becomes pretty obvious they need a nerf. Mines have the possibility of some backlash with mine drags, but Firebats don't have such an issue and tank Banelings like no other. And their base damage is too high. They destroy Ling/Bane and with a good ratio of Marines and Marauders, Roaches and Mutas aren't a threat either. And Hydras straight up suck. And Hellbat drops do so much damage. >.> It's absurd. ST_Sound got an all kill with these OP bats from hell. Not taking away from his skill, but to use a single build to all kill a team (with multiple matchups) is a bit much... Hellbats are kited pretty easily, but in TvP and TvZ, the Terran is looking to kite you, while the Hellbat just tanks and does damage while you charge at him. In TvT and TvZ, if they go mech, then you can't really kite a unit that's under the protection of Siege Tank fire. And if you run up to snipe tanks, Hellbats do work on your army. Prior to the addition of Hellbats to TvT, mech was completely viable even if it took more skill to play than bio. Now, well-played mech can destroy bio play. While I was totally fine with this when blue flame Hellions were the thing in TvT, Blizzard has stated they wanted bio to be viable. I've since gotten pretty good (at my low level of play) at using the heavier Marine/Medivac into tanks style that was how TvT was generally played at the end of WoL (since sufficient Marine spam early on, especially with Medivac support, could break tank lines). So if mech TvT is final, I'm fine with it (though I'd rather have it be in the more mobile Hellions that take more skill to kill workers with than Hellbats). But Hellbats need to be nerfed, whether Blizzard decided to let mech be the final stage of TvT or not. Also, Widow Mines, while they help the TvZ matchup significantly, are a bit too strong in prolonged fights. Flash's semi-parade bio march with Widow Mine support style is extremely powerful and relatively safe with Widow Mines. Although I LOVE to see this constant aggression style (it's far more enjoyable than slow-pushing and watching the Zerg just overrun everything anyway or fail and the Terran slow pushes at a faster pace into the Zerg base and wins). And I LOVE Muta/ling ZvZ. It's very exciting to watch (past the crazy Ling/Baneling stage) when played well. Mobility, multiple attacks, and multitasking should be the way the game is played. We shouldn't increase defenses. We should just give everyone the ability to do reasonable damage given good control while the opponent can mitigate a lot of the damage with equally good control. From there, whoever multitasks better will win. I feel like this is how the game should be played. | ||
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Savage88
Germany132 Posts
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Dworlines
France5 Posts
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trada
Germany347 Posts
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Prplppleatr
United States1518 Posts
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DurandaL917
United States92 Posts
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Osiccor
Canada128 Posts
On April 24 2013 07:15 trada wrote: glad they are considering the mass mutas in zvz the biggest issue. it is so boring to watch these days... What is Blizzard's goal? Make the game more fun to play or make the game more fun to play? Muta vs muta is boring to watch but from a player perspective, it is not boring to play. | ||
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omnic
United States188 Posts
On April 24 2013 07:24 Osiccor wrote: What is Blizzard's goal? Make the game more fun to play or make the game more fun to play? Muta vs muta is boring to watch but from a player perspective, it is not boring to play. Says the terran player? | ||
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sciserr
Norway16 Posts
On April 23 2013 12:01 Calm wrote: It makes me so happy that the biggest issue in this game is a mirror matchup. Good job Blizz! And I think the problem is just a metagame thing, if you scout spire there are timings where the zerg just dies. It's like letting a protoss get 20 tempests (funday monday anyone?). Don't let it happen WOW. You havent played single ZvZ as of late have you... | ||
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Soda-88
Croatia476 Posts
Bottom line is, between hellbats and widow mines, bio terran has way too much dps. Edit: and then maybe remove armory requirement | ||
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yep
Canada9 Posts
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omnic
United States188 Posts
On April 24 2013 07:01 Cyro wrote: You said it yourself.. It takes three banelings (150/75) to kill a hydralisk (100/50) therefore banes have to hit an average of 1.5 hydralisks to be efficient. They're good in large blobs where splitting is much harder, but their main use is to pull hydra numbers down a lot to make it so lings and mutas can deal with them easier, lings and other units are the main threat. I mean somebody going pure bane, he wont ever beat hydralisk in low numbers, and with great micro, in high ones either. If you throw in +1 base armor to hydras (20% damage nerf to lings, 20% to muta if an attack hits 3 hydras) or for example - if you were to get a fast evo chamber and have +1 armor done and +1 armor base - completely arbitrary, maybe won't happen in a game, but: 40% less damage on lings, 35% less damage on mutas (9-3-1 reduced to 7, 1, 0.5) (0.5 is minimum damage) I mean, if Hydras have +1 base armor and you get fast armor upgrades - maybe if hydra speed is buffed (it was nerfed from +50% speed to +25% between battle reports and beta though it was moved to lair) then you can make ONE HELL OF A DENT against a ling muta army. It's just economy and banelings wrecking you too hard that you have to worry about. Of course that's all random theorycrafting speculation etc, but i could totally see hydra heavy armies becoming a LOT LOT STRONGER even if they dont work - with only +1 base armor, people getting armor upgrades earlier - perhaps a slight speed boost. Hell - if they lost the "light" tag and got +1 armor they would instantly become GODLIKE vs ling muta because you can't bane to break up bigger packs of them. The reason why hydra play generally doesn't work vs mutalisk is that banelings will rape your hydralisks. They don't simply put a dent in it they completely demolish the majority of the hydralisks. With 400 gas worth of banelings (not exactly undoable since the mutalisk player will always be at least 1 base ahead of the hydralisk player) you're going to destroy nearly all if not all of the hydralisks. 1 extra armor isn't going to allow the 0-10 hydralisks that survive the banelings to do much against 25+ mutalisks with zerglings. It's a bad change because it affects other matchups more than the one it's trying to address. On April 24 2013 07:23 Prplppleatr wrote: I thought they already increased the dmg spores did? They did, they want to increase it even more though. | ||
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DoNuTs84
Denmark24 Posts
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ooDi
Canada170 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
@buff on oracle speed: what the heck? :< | ||
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ishmoks
Philippines50 Posts
On April 24 2013 03:25 Rabiator wrote: Thats just stupid, because you have to do FAR MORE multitasking .... just argue with the things I mentioned which make any kind of casual strategy harder. Did you ever get killed in a few minutes because your opponent made one or two Reapers and jumped into your walled off base and you werent ready for it? That is a stupid and not really satisfying way for a game to be played. BW simply did not have these gimmicks and was much simpler and thus easier to play for a casual ... If you dont want to accept that it is just Blizzard propaganda about the awesome unlimited unit selection ... which is stupid and the cause for many balance issues. Your suggestions for changes in the game make the game really BORING. That's like asking the NBA to take out slam dunks and fade aways from basketball just because the "casuals" can't do it like the pros do. BORING. | ||
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