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Blizzard's Potential Balance Test Map Changes - Page 28

Forum Index > SC2 General
1113 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 26 27 28 29 30 56 Next
trotul
Profile Joined January 2013
Brazil4 Posts
April 23 2013 21:24 GMT
#541
i always giggle when someone says SC2 is harder than BW
we were always much more human than we wished to be - Daniel Gildenlow
iViNtaGe
Profile Joined July 2012
United States254 Posts
April 23 2013 21:33 GMT
#542
Yeah, I like the balance atm.
Favorite Players: Bomber | Maru | Life | PartinG | InnoVation | Bbyong
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
April 23 2013 21:37 GMT
#543
On April 24 2013 06:10 StarscreamG1 wrote:
If Hydras had +1 armor, would't it help a lot specially against voids, mutalisks, and stimmed marines?


That's such a huge buff to hydralisks, you'd see a lot of mass hydra armies. Remember the difference between 2 armor roaches and 1 armor roaches?
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
Cloak
Profile Joined October 2009
United States816 Posts
April 23 2013 21:38 GMT
#544
On April 24 2013 02:06 Erik.TheRed wrote:
My main problem with the oracle is how it has this window of time where if it hasn't payed off by killing a ton of workers, it won't help at all vs any straight up counter attack (especially stim timings and the like). In fact the stargate is almost completely worthless vs terran if you haven't managed to make the oracles pay off early on and don't start to gain utility again until lategame with revelation in max army battles.

What if they added some other interesting utility to the oracle like a channeled shield generator that might actually help defend against marine/marauder or roach hydra counters? Maybe reduce the damage of the oracle attack as well and make it a normal attack rather than energy based. I think that would create for a more interesting and skill-based unit that can really pay for itself throughout the entire game if it's microd well.


Well, Time Warp was supposed to be that spell when it was on the Oracle. It pretty much made midgame pushes more troublesome if the Protoss had a decent # of Zealots. I still don't get why they did the switcheroo with the MsC. Even though I love Time Warp, it doesn't belong on an early game unit.
The more you know, the less you understand.
llIH
Profile Joined June 2011
Norway2142 Posts
April 23 2013 21:40 GMT
#545
Kind of wierd balance. But I like the AA Hydra buff
omnic
Profile Joined July 2010
United States188 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-23 21:41:24
April 23 2013 21:40 GMT
#546
On April 24 2013 06:37 Whitewing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 06:10 StarscreamG1 wrote:
If Hydras had +1 armor, would't it help a lot specially against voids, mutalisks, and stimmed marines?


That's such a huge buff to hydralisks, you'd see a lot of mass hydra armies. Remember the difference between 2 armor roaches and 1 armor roaches?


To be frank I think what balanced roaches more was the supply cost being increased to 2 supply instead of 1 and the 2 armor down to 1 was much less important. At any rate though it wouldn't help in zvz because the problem with hydralisks are banelings and mass lings.

On April 24 2013 06:40 llIH wrote:
Kind of wierd balance. But I like the AA Hydra buff


I think you misread the post. There is no AA hydra buff coming.
andrewnguyener
Profile Joined March 2011
United States548 Posts
April 23 2013 21:40 GMT
#547
I like all the potential changes
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-23 21:43:38
April 23 2013 21:41 GMT
#548
On April 24 2013 06:24 trotul wrote:
i always giggle when someone says SC2 is harder than BW

To be quite honest, it has different kinds of difficulty. If we speak from mechanical point of view, nothing beats BW, absolutely none other RTS. Micro was harder, macro was harder, no MBS, limited unit selection to 12 etc.

But, there are some things in SC2 that are definitely harder in some way. For example, decision making is a lot harder, because the game itself is very unforgiving. We saw in BW that players keep attacking at different places with some high-tech units, losing them wasn't as bad as losing some of those kind of units in SC2. In SC2 it is way harder to make a comeback when you are behind. Scouting in SC2 is a lot more important, a lot of time you can lose just because of the bad scouting, I mean that happened in BW too, but it wasn't that bad, because you didn't have 1000 different all-ins that you defend differently. Also, in engagements, one misclick can cost you the game, in BW that could barely happen.

This comes from a player that loves BW, but loves SC2 too, BW was definitely harder game, but there are parts where I would say SC2 is harder because of it being a lot less forgiving.

So, I would say that SC2 is a lot more frustrating.
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
BadBorz
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada61 Posts
April 23 2013 21:42 GMT
#549
i dont think the spore buff will change the metagame muta vs muta because its easier to safe a third base wehn you open muta than infestorsand you take the economical advantage
Nazeron
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada1046 Posts
April 23 2013 21:49 GMT
#550
zvz will be an awesome change, sick of playing muta/ling, really wish they'd do something about voids and hellbats though
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Bam Lee
Profile Joined June 2012
2336 Posts
April 23 2013 21:52 GMT
#551
meh they need to change the skills of the oracle. Having a unit designed for either instantly winning the game in the early game or having wasted your ressources for the midgame, which might prove to be of some use in the late game, is kinda gimmicky.
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
April 23 2013 21:52 GMT
#552
On April 24 2013 06:24 trotul wrote:
i always giggle when someone says SC2 is harder than BW


There are people who think that...?
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
omnic
Profile Joined July 2010
United States188 Posts
April 23 2013 21:53 GMT
#553
On April 24 2013 06:52 GolemMadness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 06:24 trotul wrote:
i always giggle when someone says SC2 is harder than BW


There are people who think that...?


Read the last few pages and you'll see one at least.
_Search_
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada180 Posts
April 23 2013 21:54 GMT
#554
I really don't get why burrow is an upgrade.

I've always thought it should be a natural ability.

Zerg has way too many researched upgrades.
mishimaBeef
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada2259 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-23 22:00:04
April 23 2013 21:57 GMT
#555
In my opinion, Oracle's are meant to be extremely COST EFFICIENT units. As well, they provide excellent UTILITY. Still, I rarely see the abilities Revelation or Envision being used. With a speed increase, the oracles will stop having to trade their life for the extra few drones and can instead zoom out. Also, since they will be alive throughout the game, they can help you scout with Revelation (especially helpful against a tech-switching zerg).

Also, I would like to see burrow cost 100/50 and research time be 72 (equal to 3 zergling build times).
Dare to live the life you have dreamed for yourself. Go forward and make your dreams come true. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
OneSpeed
Profile Joined June 2012
Norway47 Posts
April 23 2013 22:00 GMT
#556
People should lay of the comments about widow mine nerf. It's totally balanced. Why nerf a unit which makes Zerg players micro atleast a little... I mean they had the luxury of fungal and invinsible broodlord/infestor armies a-moving and end games just like that.
I only got one speed
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20278 Posts
April 23 2013 22:01 GMT
#557
On April 24 2013 06:40 omnic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 06:37 Whitewing wrote:
On April 24 2013 06:10 StarscreamG1 wrote:
If Hydras had +1 armor, would't it help a lot specially against voids, mutalisks, and stimmed marines?


That's such a huge buff to hydralisks, you'd see a lot of mass hydra armies. Remember the difference between 2 armor roaches and 1 armor roaches?


To be frank I think what balanced roaches more was the supply cost being increased to 2 supply instead of 1 and the 2 armor down to 1 was much less important. At any rate though it wouldn't help in zvz because the problem with hydralisks are banelings and mass lings.

Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 06:40 llIH wrote:
Kind of wierd balance. But I like the AA Hydra buff


I think you misread the post. There is no AA hydra buff coming.


You said it yourself..

It takes three banelings (150/75) to kill a hydralisk (100/50) therefore banes have to hit an average of 1.5 hydralisks to be efficient.

They're good in large blobs where splitting is much harder, but their main use is to pull hydra numbers down a lot to make it so lings and mutas can deal with them easier, lings and other units are the main threat. I mean somebody going pure bane, he wont ever beat hydralisk in low numbers, and with great micro, in high ones either.

If you throw in +1 base armor to hydras (20% damage nerf to lings, 20% to muta if an attack hits 3 hydras) or for example - if you were to get a fast evo chamber and have +1 armor done and +1 armor base - completely arbitrary, maybe won't happen in a game, but:

40% less damage on lings, 35% less damage on mutas (9-3-1 reduced to 7, 1, 0.5) (0.5 is minimum damage)

I mean, if Hydras have +1 base armor and you get fast armor upgrades - maybe if hydra speed is buffed (it was nerfed from +50% speed to +25% between battle reports and beta though it was moved to lair) then you can make ONE HELL OF A DENT against a ling muta army. It's just economy and banelings wrecking you too hard that you have to worry about. Of course that's all random theorycrafting speculation etc, but i could totally see hydra heavy armies becoming a LOT LOT STRONGER even if they dont work - with only +1 base armor, people getting armor upgrades earlier - perhaps a slight speed boost. Hell - if they lost the "light" tag and got +1 armor they would instantly become GODLIKE vs ling muta because you can't bane to break up bigger packs of them.
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
April 23 2013 22:02 GMT
#558
On April 24 2013 06:40 omnic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 06:37 Whitewing wrote:
On April 24 2013 06:10 StarscreamG1 wrote:
If Hydras had +1 armor, would't it help a lot specially against voids, mutalisks, and stimmed marines?


That's such a huge buff to hydralisks, you'd see a lot of mass hydra armies. Remember the difference between 2 armor roaches and 1 armor roaches?


To be frank I think what balanced roaches more was the supply cost being increased to 2 supply instead of 1 and the 2 armor down to 1 was much less important. At any rate though it wouldn't help in zvz because the problem with hydralisks are banelings and mass lings.

Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 06:40 llIH wrote:
Kind of wierd balance. But I like the AA Hydra buff


I think you misread the post. There is no AA hydra buff coming.


It really isn't. You know why Protoss rush to get +1 armor in PvT? It's because armor makes an absurdly huge difference in that matchup. 1 Armor is what, 1/6th of a marine's total dps dealt with? Hydras with +1 armor would ruin ZvT.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
Sciurine
Profile Joined January 2013
United States11 Posts
April 23 2013 22:05 GMT
#559
On April 24 2013 06:01 danl9rm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 01:14 Bagi wrote:
On April 24 2013 01:05 danl9rm wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:40 mprs wrote:
On April 23 2013 22:33 Bagi wrote:
A 50/50 burrow at hatch tech could bring a ton of variety to zerg early game plays. At that price, there's no reason NOT to get it early on.


Well, I think you still want players to make a cost analysis, otherwise you might as well just give it to them for free.


I'd be ok with that :p

Free siege tech, free burrow?

Would be fun against protoss, burrow your scout drone to block their nexus until observers are out. Alternatively burrow it to prevent wall-off and just early pool every game.


Don't be silly.

"...burrow your scout drone[S] to block their" everything



I always thought that burrowed units shouldn't block a building... they should be crushed under its weight and die.
TeeTS
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany2762 Posts
April 23 2013 22:05 GMT
#560
Horrible, horrible changes. Make burrow allins even stronger? The difficulty gap between execution and defence of this particular allin is allready way too big.
Make Oracles faster? Why didn't you make Banshees faster in WoL? I can tell you why: because it's a stupid idea! Harassment without risk is just plain stupid.
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