Premier and Challenger leagues mimick that of the GSL, as we know. + Show Spoiler +
WCS America Premier League:
The format of the WCS America Premier League is very similar to the Code S format popularized by GSL, with two Group Stages followed by an Eight-Player, Single Elimination Bracket called the Regional Finals.
The Premier league will include 32 players – 24 invited players and eight players advancing from the WCS America Qualifying Tournament. Players will be divided amongst eight groups with four players in each group.
Group Stage 1: Players will compete online. Group Stage 2: Players will compete LIVE, in-person from the MLG Studio in New York City. See schedule below.
WCS America Premier League Regional Finals:
Players will compete LIVE, in-person the weekend of June 1. The top five finishers will advance to the WCS Season 1 Finals. Additional details will be provided soon.
WCS America Challenger League:
The format of the WCS America Challenger League is very similar to the Code A format popularized by GSL, with a Single Elimination Bracket followed by a Group Stage. The Challenger League provides Players with the opportunity to qualify for the WCS Season 2 Premier League.
The Challenger League will include 40 players – 16 from the Qualifying Tournament and 24 Players who drop out of the Premier League. All Matches will take place online and be best of 3 games.
Infographic posted by juicyjames, from reddit: (# of players in 2nd qualifier unconfirmed and 512 players in first qualifier) + Show Spoiler +
Qualifier league info: The WCS America Qualifying tournament on April 20 and 21 will feature 512 players competing online in a, BO3, double elimination bracket.
Check the rules page if you are having trouble signing up! Over 1.1k people have entered! but keep signing up as many will likely not show (remember the tournament starts Saturday, Apr 20 5:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00))
Notable Participants: (ones i can readily identify and recognize by 'team' name) + Show Spoiler +
Prizing: Top eight players earn a spot in the WCS America Season 1 Premier League. A second qualifying tournament will be held to determine the 16 spots in WCS America Season 1 Challenger League. Details will be released soon.
Broadcast Schedule: (All broadcasts begin at 8pm ET) Monday, April 22 – Thursday, April 25: Qualifying Tournament (four matches each night) Monday, April 29 – Thursday, May 2: Premier League, Group Stage 1 (one group each night) Monday, May 6 – Thursday, May 9: Premier League, Group Stage 1 (one group each night) Monday, May 13 – Thursday, May 16: Challenger League Bracket Monday, May 20 – Thursday, May 23: Premier League, Group Stage 2 (Four Players LIVE in the MLG Studio each night) Monday, May 27 – Thursday, May 30: Challenger League Bracket Weekend of June 1 – Premier League Regional Finals (details TBD) Monday, June 10 – Thursday, June 13: Challenger League Group Stage Monday, June 17 – Thursday, June 20: Challenger League Group Stage
Good luck to those who are signing up. While I am happy that there is 'open' qualification, and not pure invites, the korean player list is quite intimidating. Hopefully we see at least a few foreigners get through the qualifier (though you may get to be beat by your favorite korean, consolation! ).
POLL: Given the three qualifier formats which MLG, ESL, and GSL have used. Which of the three would you want to be used for Code A qualifiers in EU/NA? (They have not released how the challenger (code A) qualifiers will be done, so just assume that it could be one of the 3 formats we have seen used!) + Show Spoiler +
MLG format - One qualifier, (Bo3) double elim, top 8 advancing. ESL format - Four qualifiers, (Bo1 to ro128 then Bo3) single elim, top 2 advancing from each qualifier. GSL format - One qualifier, (Bo3) multiple single elim group brackets with 16 players each group, top player in each group advances.
Poll: Which qualifer format do you like the most?
GSL (33)
45%
ESL (22)
30%
MLG (18)
25%
73 total votes
Your vote: Which qualifer format do you like the most?
PS. haven't seen a topic on this, go ahead and delete if MLG posts one. (and sorry to haverstall who may have had an earlier post that I didn't notice, added the broadcast schedule, which he had)
On April 11 2013 02:34 nooboon wrote: The MLG credits are the same ones from the MLG online tournaments that they started right?
Yes, they are. So if you have been playing, and doing well, in their tournaments then you may already have some credits. Personally, I already have 15 MLG credits and unless I win another 10 I will not be participating (because I don't want to pay money to be beat by koreans, but that's just me).
So, either sign up for MLG tournies (and win a few), or get your wallet out. . .
On April 11 2013 02:33 pStar wrote: $18.75 to enter?
What a fucking joke.
It would be worst if they let everyone sign up, free of charge. This keeps it to players who are willing to put down $20 to try, rather than any ass-hole who can figure out how to sign up to play with their gold league account.
On April 11 2013 02:32 ROOTT1 wrote: mlg likes money
They have plenty from canceling their $110 and $240 tournaments. In fact, they should have almost enough from so many canceled tournaments to waive the fee for the amount of people signing up. edit: to the above, uh as far as I know the first 256 are invited GM players so even if it was free it's not like it's going to be total random people signing up.
I'm pretty sad to hear about this to be honest. We have to pay to play in a tournament we already have such a low chance of advancing in. The big point here isn't the aforementioned however. In terms of sustainability and the western market, this is only going to alienate more and more low tier people who simply see no incentive to pay fees. In essence, less americans are going to want to play in these tournaments instead of the whole point of this tournament: Growth of e-sports in the west :/
On April 11 2013 02:34 nooboon wrote: The MLG credits are the same ones from the MLG online tournaments that they started right?
Yes, they are. So if you have been playing, and doing well, in their tournaments then you may already have some credits. Personally, I already have 15 MLG credits and unless I win another 10 I will not be participating (because I don't want to pay money to be beat by koreans, but that's just me).
So, either sign up for MLG tournies (and win a few), or get your wallet out.
Also, why is it a bad thing for someone from gold to play? Why can't they try their luck? - This was a great part of last years WCS and one of the reasons it felt so grass roots, ANYONE could play (and they didn't have to pay to do it).
The fee doesn't feel open and inclusive at all. This is a tournament where people should have a shot. It just doesn't feel right and "Blizzardesque" that this online qualifier cost money.
On April 11 2013 02:38 mrRoflpwn wrote: Why not just make it you have to have minimum 700 points as Masters like GSL does it? That way its free and you wont have gold idiots signing up.
With all the hackers on NA, I think we are all set with $20.
Seriously, are any of the people freaking out going to enter the qualifier? Is it your $20? Doesn't MLG charge for competitors passes for their normal events to keep out the trolls?
Seriously, the local pick up lacrosse league charges $35. Get over it.
Kyo has a great point, that I would like to piggy back off of.
WCS is supposed to be about the growth of esports and they are trying to set it up so that skill across all regions increases.
With payment to enter and with so many koreans entered, not only do I feel that it discourages participation but it also provides little to no incentive to try and improve (and even provides incentive to just become a spectator and not participate).
On April 11 2013 02:43 Prplppleatr wrote: Kyo has a great point, that I would like to piggy back off of.
WCS is supposed to be about the growth of esports and they are trying to set it up so that skill across all regions increases.
With payment to enter and with so many koreans entered, not only do I feel that it discourages participation but it also provides little to no incentive to try and improve (and even provides incentive to just become a spectator and not participate).
This is going in a bad direction, i fear.
There are other tournaments outside of the WCS that allow new and unknown players to try their luck. I fail to see why the WCS should accomodate the masses just because. And whether or not it provides incentive to play is subjective. Some (see Mana's tweets) would rather see it as inspirational being potentially put up against the best of the best and a chance to improve.
On April 11 2013 02:43 Prplppleatr wrote: Kyo has a great point, that I would like to piggy back off of.
WCS is supposed to be about the growth of esports and they are trying to set it up so that skill across all regions increases.
With payment to enter and with so many koreans entered, not only do I feel that it discourages participation but it also provides little to no incentive to try and improve (and even provides incentive to just become a spectator and not participate).
This is going in a bad direction, i fear.
There are other tournaments outside of the WCS that allow new and unknown players to try their luck. I fail to see why the WCS should accomodate the masses just because. And whether or not it provides incentive to play is subjective. Some (see Mana's tweets) would rather see it as inspirational being potentially put up against the best of the best and a chance to improve.
True, it is subjective, which is why I said I think x. To each their own, but personally I would like to see as few barriers as possible, including paying to play in WCS.
...$20 to enter a tournament? You mean that not just anyone can take a spot without putting anything up, and then show up to their match if they're in the mood that day?
20 dollars entry fee makes PERFECT sense or else you'll have tons of sign up and the "i'll show up if I feel like" attitude which set the tournament back.
And most likely only PROS sign up anyway and their team will pay for it. For common people, 20 dollars to play some of the pros will be worth it.
edit: Honestly the people bitching are the ones that: 1. never been to a tournament in their life 2. will not sign up anyway regardless of $ 3. The gold-bronze
On April 11 2013 03:04 dashiz wrote: Why do they have to profit from qualifiers, isn't what blizzard should be paying mlg for??
Why should someone be able to sign up and take a spot at no cost, then leave and totally mess up the bracket? Nothing better than a qualifier that 25-50% of the players don't show up for.
If the qualifier was free to enter a huge % of the matches would be no shows. We want this qualifier to be taken seriously by those wishing to participate.
On April 11 2013 03:04 dashiz wrote: Why do they have to profit from qualifiers, isn't what blizzard should be paying mlg for??
Paying for dozen of flights and accommodations isn't cheap, my friend.
I also support this fee decision. What I was reading the thread, I thought to myself "maybe I'll participate, just because", then literally 3 seconds later I get to the fee and thought "oh well, nevermind". I'm a master player that's pretty terrible, and would basically be a free win to a pro, basically a waste of space. Anyone worse than me that wanted to participate - there would be lots I'm sure - would equally be just a waste
On April 11 2013 03:07 MLG_Adam wrote: If the qualifier was free to enter a huge % of the matches would be no shows. We want this qualifier to be taken seriously by those wishing to participate.
If thats the sole case adam Why not a $20 registration fee with a $20 refunded once the players have played all their games and keeping $20 if they no-show?
Seems practical. Unless you dont want to admit that youre wanting to profit off of this.
On April 11 2013 03:07 MLG_Adam wrote: If the qualifier was free to enter a huge % of the matches would be no shows. We want this qualifier to be taken seriously by those wishing to participate.
also would like to add, that they have been running free tournaments with credits for the longest time as well. I know im using mine to sign up and play. The entry fee is the least of the worries for an event like this.
Its more of is the goal of the event going to be met with the current system? such as strengthening the regions outside of KR, as it feels like yes the regions will get tougher, but only because of all the injected players. Even if the injected players leave after this event, Will NA even be stronger as region or weaker?
On April 11 2013 03:07 MLG_Adam wrote: If the qualifier was free to enter a huge % of the matches would be no shows. We want this qualifier to be taken seriously by those wishing to participate.
yea because limiting the qualis to gm players/high master leaguers only would have been too hard
On April 11 2013 03:07 MLG_Adam wrote: If the qualifier was free to enter a huge % of the matches would be no shows. We want this qualifier to be taken seriously by those wishing to participate.
If thats the sole case adam Why not a $20 registration fee with a $20 refunded once the players have played all their games and keeping $20 if they no-show?
Seems practical. Unless you dont want to admit that youre wanting to profit off of this.
Don't be a clown, MGL does not need to $5000 they would get from those players in any way. If you don't want to risk your $20, don't play. If you invested the time to get that good, back it up with $20. If not, move on and let someone who cares try out.
On April 11 2013 03:07 MLG_Adam wrote: If the qualifier was free to enter a huge % of the matches would be no shows. We want this qualifier to be taken seriously by those wishing to participate.
yea because limiting the qualis to gm players/high master leaguers only would have been too hard
I don't think that would have prevented the no shows in any way. They would just be really highly ranked no shows.
On April 11 2013 03:07 MLG_Adam wrote: If the qualifier was free to enter a huge % of the matches would be no shows. We want this qualifier to be taken seriously by those wishing to participate.
If thats the sole case adam Why not a $20 registration fee with a $20 refunded once the players have played all their games and keeping $20 if they no-show?
Seems practical. Unless you dont want to admit that youre wanting to profit off of this.
Don't be a clown, MGL does not need to $5000 they would get from those players in any way. If you don't want to risk your $20, don't play. If you invested the time to get that good, back it up with $20. If not, move on and let someone who cares try out.
Errr... then what's the problem of giving the money back to the players that show up then?
On April 11 2013 03:07 MLG_Adam wrote: If the qualifier was free to enter a huge % of the matches would be no shows. We want this qualifier to be taken seriously by those wishing to participate.
If thats the sole case adam Why not a $20 registration fee with a $20 refunded once the players have played all their games and keeping $20 if they no-show?
Seems practical. Unless you dont want to admit that youre wanting to profit off of this.
Don't be a clown, MGL does not need to $5000 they would get from those players in any way. If you don't want to risk your $20, don't play. If you invested the time to get that good, back it up with $20. If not, move on and let someone who cares try out.
Who says I'm participating? I'm a casual watcher, I havent even touched HoTS outside of playing campaign and few custosm on my friends copy. If, according to MLG_Adam, that is the sole reason, wouldnt it be beneficial for my method rather than pocketing a cool $20 with the reason being "its incase they no show and dont take the tournament seriously"? If they have other justifiable reasons to charge the $20, then they should state it rather than giving off a poor reason or not say anything at all. By what you state, I still dont see why my idea isnt impractical. Enlighten me.
On April 11 2013 03:07 MLG_Adam wrote: If the qualifier was free to enter a huge % of the matches would be no shows. We want this qualifier to be taken seriously by those wishing to participate.
i dont agree with a lot of things MLG does or has done in the past but this makes perfect sense and i dont see why people would assume it would be free to enter.
rofl... I can't believe 20$ registration fee that is just lol. There shouldn't even be a fee considering GSL doesn't have one but I guess whatever it takes to make money right?
On April 11 2013 03:07 MLG_Adam wrote: If the qualifier was free to enter a huge % of the matches would be no shows. We want this qualifier to be taken seriously by those wishing to participate.
i dont agree with a lot of things MLG does or has done in the past but this makes perfect sense and i dont see why people would assume it would be free to enter.
Will GSL qualifiers are free. They don't charge people 20$ to attempt to qualify. They make a limit of points in masters to even be able to sign up.
Omg, a no show. Those totally ruined WCG. It was so unfair when a guy got a bye the first round! Thank god the players can pay 20 bucks to avoid getting a bye the first round or someone else getting one. Would hate to have the qualification determined by no shows. I don't know what world I'm living in anymore.
On April 11 2013 03:07 MLG_Adam wrote: If the qualifier was free to enter a huge % of the matches would be no shows. We want this qualifier to be taken seriously by those wishing to participate.
yea because limiting the qualis to gm players/high master leaguers only would have been too hard
On April 11 2013 03:07 MLG_Adam wrote: If the qualifier was free to enter a huge % of the matches would be no shows. We want this qualifier to be taken seriously by those wishing to participate.
I am really not hurt by this myself, but thinking other people are stupid, just adds insult to injury.
20$ is a lot of money for low wealth people, I guess a lot of potential players will be lost because of this burden, but finding players with a lot of potential isn't the goal of this new events... oh wait.
My complaint is not that MLG is charging $20 but they're making the stupidest/poorest excuse to justify their claim. There's easy ways that doesnt involve pocketing $20 off of GM/Masters players to get around the no-show problem. As TT1 says, MLG likes money.
On April 11 2013 03:07 MLG_Adam wrote: If the qualifier was free to enter a huge % of the matches would be no shows. We want this qualifier to be taken seriously by those wishing to participate.
If thats the sole case adam Why not a $20 registration fee with a $20 refunded once the players have played all their games and keeping $20 if they no-show?
Seems practical. Unless you dont want to admit that youre wanting to profit off of this.
Don't be a clown, MGL does not need to $5000 they would get from those players in any way. If you don't want to risk your $20, don't play. If you invested the time to get that good, back it up with $20. If not, move on and let someone who cares try out.
Who says I'm participating? I'm a casual watcher, I havent even touched HoTS outside of playing campaign and few custosm on my friends copy. If, according to MLG_Adam, that is the sole reason, wouldnt it be beneficial for my method rather than pocketing a cool $20 with the reason being "its incase they no show and dont take the tournament seriously"? If they have other justifiable reasons to charge the $20, then they should state it rather than giving off a poor reason or not say anything at all.
Ok, so its not your $20, so why do you care? He gave a reason and entry fees are nothing new. Everyone charges them for everything. As I stated before, my local pick up, armature lacrosse league charges $35 and the prize pool is $250 per person. The prize pool comes from sponsors(a local pizza chain and some other stuff). If people aren't invested enough to pay $20, then they didn't need to compete anyways.
On April 11 2013 03:21 dashiz wrote: 20$ is a lot of money for low wealth people, I guess a lot of potential players will be lost because of this burden, but finding players with a lot of potential isn't the goal of this new events... oh wait.
If you have any shot of getting through qualifiers, you have $20 to spare.
On April 11 2013 03:07 MLG_Adam wrote: If the qualifier was free to enter a huge % of the matches would be no shows. We want this qualifier to be taken seriously by those wishing to participate.
I am really not hurt by this myself, but thinking other people are stupid, just adds insult to injury.
Why not just make it top 200 gm and high master players?? if you want people serious about showing up.. that's the way to do it. It's always the low ranked players that no show.
On April 11 2013 03:23 EGLzGaMeR wrote: Why not just make it top 200 gm and high master players?? if you want people serious about showing up.. that's the way to do it. It's always the low ranked players that no show.
Because it clearly is about the money, saying its just because they want people to take it seriously is just public relations talk.
On April 11 2013 03:07 MLG_Adam wrote: If the qualifier was free to enter a huge % of the matches would be no shows. We want this qualifier to be taken seriously by those wishing to participate.
yea because limiting the qualis to gm players/high master leaguers only would have been too hard
But half the Koreans don't have NA accounts?
Time for them to get one ? It's not like it isn't free.
On April 11 2013 03:23 EGLzGaMeR wrote: Why not just make it top 200 gm and high master players?? if you want people serious about showing up.. that's the way to do it. It's always the low ranked players that no show.
Maybe since they invited all of Kespa and ESF Koreans, even top NA GM's would think better of it when it comes to competing in a NA qualifier.
On April 11 2013 03:07 MLG_Adam wrote: If the qualifier was free to enter a huge % of the matches would be no shows. We want this qualifier to be taken seriously by those wishing to participate.
If thats the sole case adam Why not a $20 registration fee with a $20 refunded once the players have played all their games and keeping $20 if they no-show?
Seems practical. Unless you dont want to admit that youre wanting to profit off of this.
Don't be a clown, MGL does not need to $5000 they would get from those players in any way. If you don't want to risk your $20, don't play. If you invested the time to get that good, back it up with $20. If not, move on and let someone who cares try out.
Who says I'm participating? I'm a casual watcher, I havent even touched HoTS outside of playing campaign and few custosm on my friends copy. If, according to MLG_Adam, that is the sole reason, wouldnt it be beneficial for my method rather than pocketing a cool $20 with the reason being "its incase they no show and dont take the tournament seriously"? If they have other justifiable reasons to charge the $20, then they should state it rather than giving off a poor reason or not say anything at all.
Ok, so its not your $20, so why do you care? He gave a reason and entry fees are nothing new. Everyone charges them for everything. As I stated before, my local pick up, armature lacrosse league charges $35 and the prize pool is $250 per person. The prize pool comes from sponsors(a local pizza chain and some other stuff). If people aren't invested enough to pay $20, then they didn't need to compete anyways.
It's not my $20 but because what MLG_Adam stated gives off the implication that he thinks we're all idiots . His justification is hardly any validation for the entry fee. If he had not said anything, I wouldnt have said anything at all and just told myself "cool, must have to do with casters/production fees etc".
On April 11 2013 03:21 dashiz wrote: 20$ is a lot of money for low wealth people, I guess a lot of potential players will be lost because of this burden, but finding players with a lot of potential isn't the goal of this new events... oh wait.
If you have any shot of getting through qualifiers, you have $20 to spare.
How can you be sure of this?
Many of the top tier pros from Korea came into stardom during highschool. If you have the time to practice SC2 enough to be world class then you probably don't have a job. So you really don't have any source of income unless your parents are generous.
Keep in mind that Suppy said it took him 5 qualifiers to get into WCS last year, that's $100. Considering many college students don't have that kind of cash to blow on a video game pipe dream how many people do you think will give up after one or two qualifiers, or maybe not even try at all?
On April 11 2013 03:07 MLG_Adam wrote: If the qualifier was free to enter a huge % of the matches would be no shows. We want this qualifier to be taken seriously by those wishing to participate.
If thats the sole case adam Why not a $20 registration fee with a $20 refunded once the players have played all their games and keeping $20 if they no-show?
Seems practical. Unless you dont want to admit that youre wanting to profit off of this.
Don't be a clown, MGL does not need to $5000 they would get from those players in any way. If you don't want to risk your $20, don't play. If you invested the time to get that good, back it up with $20. If not, move on and let someone who cares try out.
Who says I'm participating? I'm a casual watcher, I havent even touched HoTS outside of playing campaign and few custosm on my friends copy. If, according to MLG_Adam, that is the sole reason, wouldnt it be beneficial for my method rather than pocketing a cool $20 with the reason being "its incase they no show and dont take the tournament seriously"? If they have other justifiable reasons to charge the $20, then they should state it rather than giving off a poor reason or not say anything at all. By what you state, I still dont see why my idea isnt impractical. Enlighten me.
It's not free because some people just want to go in there and play (they don't care if they win or not) against a pro player for fun. They don't take the tournament seriously and just want to fuck around and play against a famous player. MLG only wants you to enter if you legitimately think you have a chance of winning. The $20 is collateral (not sure if that's the right word) for idiots who don't take this seriously. Thy only want the best (people who actually think they can win) in their tourney, and it's entirely understandable to have an entry fee, since they have a limited number of qualifier spots.
Umm. The Koreans have to pay for a bus or gas to actually get to the venue. While this qualifier can be played from the comforts of your own home so its not really much more off a barrier then GSL qualifiers it might even be less.
On April 11 2013 03:21 dashiz wrote: 20$ is a lot of money for low wealth people, I guess a lot of potential players will be lost because of this burden, but finding players with a lot of potential isn't the goal of this new events... oh wait.
If you have any shot of getting through qualifiers, you have $20 to spare.
How can you be sure of this?
Many of the top tier pros from Korea came into stardom during highschool. If you have the time to practice SC2 enough to be world class then you probably don't have a job. So you really don't have any source of income unless your parents are generous.
Keep in mind that Suppy said it took him 5 qualifiers to get into WCS last year, that's $100. Considering many college students don't have that kind of cash to blow on a video game pipe dream how many people do you think will give up after one or two qualifiers, or maybe not even try at all?
they probably should give up if their dedication is hampered by $20.
On April 11 2013 03:07 MLG_Adam wrote: If the qualifier was free to enter a huge % of the matches would be no shows. We want this qualifier to be taken seriously by those wishing to participate.
If thats the sole case adam Why not a $20 registration fee with a $20 refunded once the players have played all their games and keeping $20 if they no-show?
Seems practical. Unless you dont want to admit that youre wanting to profit off of this.
Don't be a clown, MGL does not need to $5000 they would get from those players in any way. If you don't want to risk your $20, don't play. If you invested the time to get that good, back it up with $20. If not, move on and let someone who cares try out.
Who says I'm participating? I'm a casual watcher, I havent even touched HoTS outside of playing campaign and few custosm on my friends copy. If, according to MLG_Adam, that is the sole reason, wouldnt it be beneficial for my method rather than pocketing a cool $20 with the reason being "its incase they no show and dont take the tournament seriously"? If they have other justifiable reasons to charge the $20, then they should state it rather than giving off a poor reason or not say anything at all.
Ok, so its not your $20, so why do you care? He gave a reason and entry fees are nothing new. Everyone charges them for everything. As I stated before, my local pick up, armature lacrosse league charges $35 and the prize pool is $250 per person. The prize pool comes from sponsors(a local pizza chain and some other stuff). If people aren't invested enough to pay $20, then they didn't need to compete anyways.
It's not my $20 but because what MLG_Adam stated gives off the implication that he thinks we're all idiots . His justification is hardly any validation for the entry fee. If he had not said anything, I wouldnt have said anything at all and just told myself "cool, must have to do with casters/production fees etc".
No, his reason is solid and used everywhere else in the world. Its called barrier to entry. Courts don't collect filing fees because it helps pay the staff, its to keep idiots from filing TROs every week and wasting the courts time. If they wanted money, they would charge more.
On April 11 2013 03:07 MLG_Adam wrote: If the qualifier was free to enter a huge % of the matches would be no shows. We want this qualifier to be taken seriously by those wishing to participate.
If thats the sole case adam Why not a $20 registration fee with a $20 refunded once the players have played all their games and keeping $20 if they no-show?
Seems practical. Unless you dont want to admit that youre wanting to profit off of this.
Don't be a clown, MGL does not need to $5000 they would get from those players in any way. If you don't want to risk your $20, don't play. If you invested the time to get that good, back it up with $20. If not, move on and let someone who cares try out.
Who says I'm participating? I'm a casual watcher, I havent even touched HoTS outside of playing campaign and few custosm on my friends copy. If, according to MLG_Adam, that is the sole reason, wouldnt it be beneficial for my method rather than pocketing a cool $20 with the reason being "its incase they no show and dont take the tournament seriously"? If they have other justifiable reasons to charge the $20, then they should state it rather than giving off a poor reason or not say anything at all. By what you state, I still dont see why my idea isnt impractical. Enlighten me.
It's not free because some people just want to go in there and play (they don't care if they win or not) against a pro player for fun. They don't take the tournament seriously and just want to fuck around and play against a famous player. MLG only wants you to enter if you legitimately think you have a chance of winning. The $20 is collateral (not sure if that's the right word) for idiots who don't take this seriously. Thy only want the best (people who actually think they can win) in their tourney, and it's entirely understandable to have an entry fee, since they have a limited number of qualifier spots.
Well alright. So... limiting the players to being Masters with # points or GM (I hardly think people who have invested such heavy time into the game would go off trolling on their chance for glory), and pocketing $20 if they do a no-show. Explain to me how wouldnt this create the same effect?
On April 11 2013 03:07 MLG_Adam wrote: If the qualifier was free to enter a huge % of the matches would be no shows. We want this qualifier to be taken seriously by those wishing to participate.
If thats the sole case adam Why not a $20 registration fee with a $20 refunded once the players have played all their games and keeping $20 if they no-show?
Seems practical. Unless you dont want to admit that youre wanting to profit off of this.
Don't be a clown, MGL does not need to $5000 they would get from those players in any way. If you don't want to risk your $20, don't play. If you invested the time to get that good, back it up with $20. If not, move on and let someone who cares try out.
Errr... then what's the problem of giving the money back to the players that show up then?
Because then scrubs can still show up and not take it seriously.
everyone does but unfortunately were not in a position to make any . i guess all we have to do is practice harder, right?
On April 11 2013 03:23 EGLzGaMeR wrote: Why not just make it top 200 gm and high master players?? if you want people serious about showing up.. that's the way to do it. It's always the low ranked players that no show.
Maybe since they invited all of Kespa and ESF Koreans, even top NA GM's would think better of it when it comes to competing in a NA qualifier.
Except there is only one Kespa/ESF player that has chosen NA (Nestea).
On April 11 2013 03:21 dashiz wrote: 20$ is a lot of money for low wealth people, I guess a lot of potential players will be lost because of this burden, but finding players with a lot of potential isn't the goal of this new events... oh wait.
If you have any shot of getting through qualifiers, you have $20 to spare.
How can you be sure of this?
Many of the top tier pros from Korea came into stardom during highschool. If you have the time to practice SC2 enough to be world class then you probably don't have a job. So you really don't have any source of income unless your parents are generous.
Keep in mind that Suppy said it took him 5 qualifiers to get into WCS last year, that's $100. Considering many college students don't have that kind of cash to blow on a video game pipe dream how many people do you think will give up after one or two qualifiers, or maybe not even try at all?
You paid $60 for WoL and $40 for HotS but can't come up with $20 for the biggest tourney on the planet? Really?
On April 11 2013 03:25 HeavenResign wrote: Aren't MLG competitor passes usually $70? This is way cheaper.
SILENCE WITH YOUR LOGIC!
It's not logic. 70$ when are you playing at a physical LAN location that costs money to even rent out is far different then online qualifiers for a huge tournament (WCS obviously) that is free for EU and KR players to qualify for.
If every region did 20$ then I could understand it, but the fact that EU and KR get free qualifiers and NA has to pay 20$ is just lol.
On April 11 2013 03:23 EGLzGaMeR wrote: Why not just make it top 200 gm and high master players?? if you want people serious about showing up.. that's the way to do it. It's always the low ranked players that no show.
Maybe since they invited all of Kespa and ESF Koreans, even top NA GM's would think better of it when it comes to competing in a NA qualifier.
Except there is only one Kespa/ESF player that has chosen NA (Nestea).
On April 11 2013 03:23 EGLzGaMeR wrote: Why not just make it top 200 gm and high master players?? if you want people serious about showing up.. that's the way to do it. It's always the low ranked players that no show.
Maybe since they invited all of Kespa and ESF Koreans, even top NA GM's would think better of it when it comes to competing in a NA qualifier.
Except there is only one Kespa/ESF player that has chosen NA (Nestea).
On April 11 2013 03:25 HeavenResign wrote: Aren't MLG competitor passes usually $70? This is way cheaper.
SILENCE WITH YOUR LOGIC!
It's not logic. 70$ when are you playing at a physical LAN location that costs money to even rent out is far different then online qualifiers for a huge tournament (WCS obviously) that is free for EU and KR players to qualify for.
If every region did 20$ then I could understand it, but the fact that EU and KR get free qualifiers and NA has to pay 20$ is just lol.
Are we sure the other two are free? GSL is in person, so that cuts through a lot of the issues with no-shows, since you can just count the people who arrive and then make the bracket. I don't know about EU and if they will be an entry fee.
On April 11 2013 02:32 ROOTT1 wrote: mlg likes money
so do players.
everyone does but unfortunately were not in a position to make any . i guess all we have to do is practice harder, right?
well, my normal advice in such situations would be to change your profession. given the influx of koreans into the NA WCS scene, i think my normal advice is an understatement. NA aren't going to win anything anymore--not that they were winning anything of note before. this is the sad and unfortunate truth.
nevertheless, i find it odd when people are surprised and/or enraged by the fact that a for-profit corporation like MLG is attempting to make money.
On April 11 2013 03:23 EGLzGaMeR wrote: Why not just make it top 200 gm and high master players?? if you want people serious about showing up.. that's the way to do it. It's always the low ranked players that no show.
Maybe since they invited all of Kespa and ESF Koreans, even top NA GM's would think better of it when it comes to competing in a NA qualifier.
Except there is only one Kespa/ESF player that has chosen NA (Nestea).
Two (violet as well)
Doh, keep forgetting Abuzu joined esf.
Well we don't know if more Koreans will try to qualify. I'm pretty sure that most of these players have either gotten an invite or they are already in GSL so they have to make their choice.
On April 11 2013 03:25 HeavenResign wrote: Aren't MLG competitor passes usually $70? This is way cheaper.
SILENCE WITH YOUR LOGIC!
It's not logic. 70$ when are you playing at a physical LAN location that costs money to even rent out is far different then online qualifiers for a huge tournament (WCS obviously) that is free for EU and KR players to qualify for.
If every region did 20$ then I could understand it, but the fact that EU and KR get free qualifiers and NA has to pay 20$ is just lol.
Are we sure the other two are free? GSL is in person, so that cuts through a lot of the issues with no-shows, since you can just count the people who arrive and then make the bracket. I don't know about EU and if they will be an entry fee.
On April 11 2013 03:25 HeavenResign wrote: Aren't MLG competitor passes usually $70? This is way cheaper.
SILENCE WITH YOUR LOGIC!
It's not logic. 70$ when are you playing at a physical LAN location that costs money to even rent out is far different then online qualifiers for a huge tournament (WCS obviously) that is free for EU and KR players to qualify for.
If every region did 20$ then I could understand it, but the fact that EU and KR get free qualifiers and NA has to pay 20$ is just lol.
Are we sure the other two are free? GSL is in person, so that cuts through a lot of the issues with no-shows, since you can just count the people who arrive and then make the bracket. I don't know about EU and if they will be an entry fee.
No you don't have to sign up in person, these last prelims you could also do it online so there have been some byes. Today in the groups there where A LOT of byes and walkovers because people have been able to sign up online and pulling out.
On April 11 2013 02:38 mrRoflpwn wrote: Why not just make it you have to have minimum 700 points as Masters like GSL does it? That way its free and you wont have gold idiots signing up.
This simply isn't true, even though somehow everyone seems to think it is (I'm looking at you, Khaldor).
Priority for registration will be given to these players in sequential order:
1. ESF Players 2. KeSPA Players 3. Masters league players with at least 200 points (by April 1st, 12:00 PM KST)
After these players have been sorted, anyone will be able to sign up for the Code A qualifiers for a total number of 576 players. (First-come, first-served basis starting from March 29th, 12:00PM KST)
And before you ask, the qualifiers have never even been close to full. I, personally, think one of the best things about the GSL is that it's a truly open tournament, without regard even to ladder rank... but considering that no one else even knows that, maybe not.
On April 11 2013 03:25 HeavenResign wrote: Aren't MLG competitor passes usually $70? This is way cheaper.
SILENCE WITH YOUR LOGIC!
It's not logic. 70$ when are you playing at a physical LAN location that costs money to even rent out is far different then online qualifiers for a huge tournament (WCS obviously) that is free for EU and KR players to qualify for.
If every region did 20$ then I could understand it, but the fact that EU and KR get free qualifiers and NA has to pay 20$ is just lol.
Are we sure the other two are free? GSL is in person, so that cuts through a lot of the issues with no-shows, since you can just count the people who arrive and then make the bracket. I don't know about EU and if they will be an entry fee.
EU qualifiers will be fully open
That sounds like it is going to go poorly, but that is just me. I expect a lot of trolls to sign up to fuck around or just be no shows.
I don't understand how MLG's reasoning for charging is anything more than what they say it is.
Putting up a pay wall gives people an incentive to get use out of the money they spent. If a gold league player wants to play in the tournament, then let them, but they have to pay. It seems that a lot of people seem to have qualms with the fact that they're taking $20 from everyone and not just giving master/gm players a free pass.
I fully intend to take part, I just recently got promoted to Masters and will get my ass kicked. This is providing me a service that I would like to take advantage of that I wouldn't be able to otherwise, especially if the tournament was kept to high master/gm players by default. I can understand being frustrated with a paywall, but don't accuse the guy of insulting your intelligence when the reason he stated the paywall is going into effect is pretty valid. He didn't say that's the only reason it's going into effect, and I think in general a lot of you are going crazy without additional information that could probably be gathered with a "hey, is that the only reason you're putting in the paywall? Did you consider doing it this way, or that way?" pm, and is infinitely less insulting.
People really think 20$ is not relative of your economic position??, good job at seeing life with only your perspective. And about the no shows can be solved easily without taking anymore money than the one that they already get from Blizzard...
On April 11 2013 03:25 HeavenResign wrote: Aren't MLG competitor passes usually $70? This is way cheaper.
SILENCE WITH YOUR LOGIC!
It's not logic. 70$ when are you playing at a physical LAN location that costs money to even rent out is far different then online qualifiers for a huge tournament (WCS obviously) that is free for EU and KR players to qualify for.
If every region did 20$ then I could understand it, but the fact that EU and KR get free qualifiers and NA has to pay 20$ is just lol.
Are we sure the other two are free? GSL is in person, so that cuts through a lot of the issues with no-shows, since you can just count the people who arrive and then make the bracket. I don't know about EU and if they will be an entry fee.
EU qualifiers will be fully open
That sounds like it is going to go poorly, but that is just me. I expect a lot of trolls to sign up to fuck around or just be no shows.
ESL/DECL is doing tournaments for 2 decades now. I guess they can handle that.
On April 11 2013 03:25 HeavenResign wrote: Aren't MLG competitor passes usually $70? This is way cheaper.
SILENCE WITH YOUR LOGIC!
It's not logic. 70$ when are you playing at a physical LAN location that costs money to even rent out is far different then online qualifiers for a huge tournament (WCS obviously) that is free for EU and KR players to qualify for.
If every region did 20$ then I could understand it, but the fact that EU and KR get free qualifiers and NA has to pay 20$ is just lol.
On April 11 2013 03:25 HeavenResign wrote: Aren't MLG competitor passes usually $70? This is way cheaper.
SILENCE WITH YOUR LOGIC!
It's not logic. 70$ when are you playing at a physical LAN location that costs money to even rent out is far different then online qualifiers for a huge tournament (WCS obviously) that is free for EU and KR players to qualify for.
If every region did 20$ then I could understand it, but the fact that EU and KR get free qualifiers and NA has to pay 20$ is just lol.
Are we sure the other two are free? GSL is in person, so that cuts through a lot of the issues with no-shows, since you can just count the people who arrive and then make the bracket. I don't know about EU and if they will be an entry fee.
EU qualifiers will be fully open
That sounds like it is going to go poorly, but that is just me. I expect a lot of trolls to sign up to fuck around or just be no shows.
ESL/DECL is doing tournaments for 2 decades now. I guess they can handle that.
I just don't like the idea of someone qualifying because they got a bunch of luck walk overs or joke players who don't care. Maybe that won't happen, but I prefer that events try to put systems in place to assure that only the people who give a shit sign up.
what the sc2 scene needs is to copy the poker tournament formats. 'buyins' for every event (micro-small-mid-high "stakes")... this way completely unknowns can grind it up from the bottom, building up a bankroll by winning micro/small buyin tournaments, playing with similiar skilled players (top pros wouldn't play in a 10-100 usd event obv). if you have the money you could play in any event. the rich noobs would be happy to play with the top pros, and the top pros would get the big money. you could move down in "stakes" if you have a bad streak, play smaller buyin events, etc... great for competition imo.
On April 11 2013 02:32 ROOTT1 wrote: mlg likes money
so do players.
everyone does but unfortunately were not in a position to make any . i guess all we have to do is practice harder, right?
Yeah you do. You need to quit your job, live off of no money whatsoever (or hope you get laid off for those sick sick EI premiums) and then practice all day then HOPE you take a game off Nestea. Now all you need to do is bet Catz $200 dollars you take that game off Nestea and when it happens BAM you just earned yourself a couple weeks of Rice for Dinner High FIVE!
On April 11 2013 03:25 HeavenResign wrote: Aren't MLG competitor passes usually $70? This is way cheaper.
SILENCE WITH YOUR LOGIC!
It's not logic. 70$ when are you playing at a physical LAN location that costs money to even rent out is far different then online qualifiers for a huge tournament (WCS obviously) that is free for EU and KR players to qualify for.
If every region did 20$ then I could understand it, but the fact that EU and KR get free qualifiers and NA has to pay 20$ is just lol.
Are we sure the other two are free? GSL is in person, so that cuts through a lot of the issues with no-shows, since you can just count the people who arrive and then make the bracket. I don't know about EU and if they will be an entry fee.
EU qualifiers will be fully open
That sounds like it is going to go poorly, but that is just me. I expect a lot of trolls to sign up to fuck around or just be no shows.
ESL/DECL is doing tournaments for 2 decades now. I guess they can handle that.
I just don't like the idea of someone qualifying because they got a bunch of luck walk overs or joke players who don't care. Maybe that won't happen, but I prefer that events try to put systems in place to assure that only the people who give a shit sign up.
That does not happen on their other cups and it will no way happen on this where a lot of high profile players sign in.
On April 11 2013 03:46 waki wrote: i don't get the complaining about $20.
what the sc2 scene needs is to copy the poker tournament formats. 'buyins' for every event (micro-small-mid-high "stakes")... this way completely unknowns can grind it up from the bottom, building up a bankroll by winning micro/small buyin tournaments, playing with similiar skilled players (top pros wouldn't play in a 10-100 usd event obv). if you have the money you could play in any event. the rich noobs would be happy to play with the top pros, and the top pros would get the big money. you could move down in "stakes" if you have a bad streak, play smaller buyin events, etc... great for competition imo.
Yeah, that's exactly what the SC2 scene needs, to make every event cost money. That'll help everything!
On April 11 2013 03:25 HeavenResign wrote: Aren't MLG competitor passes usually $70? This is way cheaper.
SILENCE WITH YOUR LOGIC!
It's not logic. 70$ when are you playing at a physical LAN location that costs money to even rent out is far different then online qualifiers for a huge tournament (WCS obviously) that is free for EU and KR players to qualify for.
If every region did 20$ then I could understand it, but the fact that EU and KR get free qualifiers and NA has to pay 20$ is just lol.
Are we sure the other two are free? GSL is in person, so that cuts through a lot of the issues with no-shows, since you can just count the people who arrive and then make the bracket. I don't know about EU and if they will be an entry fee.
EU qualifiers will be fully open
That sounds like it is going to go poorly, but that is just me. I expect a lot of trolls to sign up to fuck around or just be no shows.
ESL/DECL is doing tournaments for 2 decades now. I guess they can handle that.
I just don't like the idea of someone qualifying because they got a bunch of luck walk overs or joke players who don't care. Maybe that won't happen, but I prefer that events try to put systems in place to assure that only the people who give a shit sign up.
That does not happen on their other cups and it will no way happen on this where a lot of high profile players sign in.
Really? You don't think a bunch of dumb people from SC reddit won't sign up just to troll MLG? You really think that because some high level players sign up that will somehow decrease the chance of people trolling the qualifier bracket?
If your scene/organizers takes these 5000 $ and run 50 region locked weekly cups with 100$ prize there you have your chance to strengthen your own scene.
On April 11 2013 03:58 TumNarDok wrote: See North America, thats your problem.
If your scene/organizers takes these 5000 $ and run 50 region locked weekly cups with 100$ prize there you have your chance to strengthen your own scene.
Don't make sense on a topic like this, let the people ramble around like chickens
On April 11 2013 03:25 HeavenResign wrote: Aren't MLG competitor passes usually $70? This is way cheaper.
SILENCE WITH YOUR LOGIC!
It's not logic. 70$ when are you playing at a physical LAN location that costs money to even rent out is far different then online qualifiers for a huge tournament (WCS obviously) that is free for EU and KR players to qualify for.
If every region did 20$ then I could understand it, but the fact that EU and KR get free qualifiers and NA has to pay 20$ is just lol.
Are we sure the other two are free? GSL is in person, so that cuts through a lot of the issues with no-shows, since you can just count the people who arrive and then make the bracket. I don't know about EU and if they will be an entry fee.
EU qualifiers will be fully open
That sounds like it is going to go poorly, but that is just me. I expect a lot of trolls to sign up to fuck around or just be no shows.
ESL/DECL is doing tournaments for 2 decades now. I guess they can handle that.
I just don't like the idea of someone qualifying because they got a bunch of luck walk overs or joke players who don't care. Maybe that won't happen, but I prefer that events try to put systems in place to assure that only the people who give a shit sign up.
That does not happen on their other cups and it will no way happen on this where a lot of high profile players sign in.
Really? You don't think a bunch of dumb people from SC reddit won't sign up just to troll MLG? You really think that because some high level players sign up that will somehow decrease the chance of people trolling the qualifier bracket?
Could you be so kind as to explain to us what way there is to troll people? If you play shit or don't attend you're out after the first round of the tournament. So thats basically the whole case. And to prevent this MLG charges 20$...(or even more for multiple qualifiers?!) don't know what to think about it.
On April 11 2013 03:25 HeavenResign wrote: Aren't MLG competitor passes usually $70? This is way cheaper.
SILENCE WITH YOUR LOGIC!
It's not logic. 70$ when are you playing at a physical LAN location that costs money to even rent out is far different then online qualifiers for a huge tournament (WCS obviously) that is free for EU and KR players to qualify for.
If every region did 20$ then I could understand it, but the fact that EU and KR get free qualifiers and NA has to pay 20$ is just lol.
Are we sure the other two are free? GSL is in person, so that cuts through a lot of the issues with no-shows, since you can just count the people who arrive and then make the bracket. I don't know about EU and if they will be an entry fee.
EU qualifiers will be fully open
That sounds like it is going to go poorly, but that is just me. I expect a lot of trolls to sign up to fuck around or just be no shows.
ESL/DECL is doing tournaments for 2 decades now. I guess they can handle that.
I just don't like the idea of someone qualifying because they got a bunch of luck walk overs or joke players who don't care. Maybe that won't happen, but I prefer that events try to put systems in place to assure that only the people who give a shit sign up.
That does not happen on their other cups and it will no way happen on this where a lot of high profile players sign in.
Really? You don't think a bunch of dumb people from SC reddit won't sign up just to troll MLG? You really think that because some high level players sign up that will somehow decrease the chance of people trolling the qualifier bracket?
While you are speculating, I am not "thinking something", but talk about things happening every week w/o any noteworthy problems. I don't think this discussions leads anywhere though.
On April 11 2013 02:33 pStar wrote: $18.75 to enter?
What a fucking joke.
It would be worst if they let everyone sign up, free of charge. This keeps it to players who are willing to put down $20 to try, rather than any ass-hole who can figure out how to sign up to play with their gold league account.
I don't think that's a big deal...I think mlg just wants to use that mlg credit thing.
On April 11 2013 03:25 Plansix wrote: [quote] SILENCE WITH YOUR LOGIC!
It's not logic. 70$ when are you playing at a physical LAN location that costs money to even rent out is far different then online qualifiers for a huge tournament (WCS obviously) that is free for EU and KR players to qualify for.
If every region did 20$ then I could understand it, but the fact that EU and KR get free qualifiers and NA has to pay 20$ is just lol.
Are we sure the other two are free? GSL is in person, so that cuts through a lot of the issues with no-shows, since you can just count the people who arrive and then make the bracket. I don't know about EU and if they will be an entry fee.
EU qualifiers will be fully open
That sounds like it is going to go poorly, but that is just me. I expect a lot of trolls to sign up to fuck around or just be no shows.
ESL/DECL is doing tournaments for 2 decades now. I guess they can handle that.
I just don't like the idea of someone qualifying because they got a bunch of luck walk overs or joke players who don't care. Maybe that won't happen, but I prefer that events try to put systems in place to assure that only the people who give a shit sign up.
That does not happen on their other cups and it will no way happen on this where a lot of high profile players sign in.
Really? You don't think a bunch of dumb people from SC reddit won't sign up just to troll MLG? You really think that because some high level players sign up that will somehow decrease the chance of people trolling the qualifier bracket?
While you are speculating, I am not "thinking something", but talk about things happening every week w/o any noteworthy problems. I don't think this discussions leads anywhere though.
I see no problem with charging $20 to assure players are committed. It only benefits the event and if someone really cares, they will find $20. If they say "fuck it, thats to much money" then they didn't really care that much to begin with.
On April 11 2013 03:21 dashiz wrote: 20$ is a lot of money for low wealth people, I guess a lot of potential players will be lost because of this burden, but finding players with a lot of potential isn't the goal of this new events... oh wait.
If you have any shot of getting through qualifiers, you have $20 to spare.
How can you be sure of this?
Many of the top tier pros from Korea came into stardom during highschool. If you have the time to practice SC2 enough to be world class then you probably don't have a job. So you really don't have any source of income unless your parents are generous.
Keep in mind that Suppy said it took him 5 qualifiers to get into WCS last year, that's $100. Considering many college students don't have that kind of cash to blow on a video game pipe dream how many people do you think will give up after one or two qualifiers, or maybe not even try at all?
If their dream isn't even worth $20, then that's not much of a dream, is it? And this is exactly why the $20 is there. If you are dedicated and hardcore, you will do anything to shell out the $20 even if it means a week of ramen.
Sorry for sense, NA had this problem self made and coming for the past 3 years. They let their cups die and the major teams and orgs invested mostly the money abroad. Viewing culture promote "best play" (koreans) and fails to promote regional talent.
That said, glgl to all participants I'll surely try to catch the broadcasts and will be VERY curious if they then show matches of LOCALS or KOREANS
Well I guess this is one way of shutting down poor retards. What about the people that can afford it though? It's a little greedy on MLGs end but i'd just think of it as supporting esports or something, no need to think of everything in a negative light the money would probably help fund more events etc
I dunno how people should be able to provide for themselves by commiting to fulltime gaming in NA when they walk out with negative 20 bucks from an online qualifier against a code s/a korean.
Thats just such an unnecessary barrier of entry which hinders the development of an NA pro gaming scene. If trying to qualify is already connected to financial loss, i would just not participate.
On April 11 2013 02:32 ROOTT1 wrote: mlg likes money
Keeps idiots from signing who are Gold league just to troll someone. Barrier of entry.
How about only allowing players from master and above to sign up? And if you can afford somebody levling on your account, you can also afford the registration fee.
A fee is necessary. The people who are committed to their career and sc2 will pay $20. Also, keep in mind that qualifiers only happen once a season, so that is $20 once every few months, with a chance for a huge return payout. The fee makes the qualifier more legitimate and has MLG_Adam said, the fee will make "those wishing to participate" take the games more seriously.
On April 11 2013 04:16 HobyHarro wrote: A fee is necessary. The people who are committed to their career and sc2 will pay $20. Also, keep in mind that qualifiers only happen once a season, so that is $20 once every few months, with a chance for a huge return payout. The fee makes the qualifier more legitimate and has MLG_Adam said, the fee will make "those wishing to participate" take the games more seriously.
Interesting, it is not necessary on korea or europe, but you are willing to take it. That's hilarious.
Why are there people who don't even have the slightest desire to compete in this thing complaining about a $20 registration fee, which anyone serious about it is a non-issue?
On April 11 2013 03:25 HeavenResign wrote: Aren't MLG competitor passes usually $70? This is way cheaper.
SILENCE WITH YOUR LOGIC!
It's not logic. 70$ when are you playing at a physical LAN location that costs money to even rent out is far different then online qualifiers for a huge tournament (WCS obviously) that is free for EU and KR players to qualify for.
If every region did 20$ then I could understand it, but the fact that EU and KR get free qualifiers and NA has to pay 20$ is just lol.
Are we sure the other two are free? GSL is in person, so that cuts through a lot of the issues with no-shows, since you can just count the people who arrive and then make the bracket. I don't know about EU and if they will be an entry fee.
EU qualifiers will be fully open
That sounds like it is going to go poorly, but that is just me. I expect a lot of trolls to sign up to fuck around or just be no shows.
ESL/DECL is doing tournaments for 2 decades now. I guess they can handle that.
I just don't like the idea of someone qualifying because they got a bunch of luck walk overs or joke players who don't care. Maybe that won't happen, but I prefer that events try to put systems in place to assure that only the people who give a shit sign up.
Even if there are alot of trolls on EU, by the round of 32 there will be no more walkovers, neither in the form of players not showing up for the game, nor in the form of players who think they can play sc2 with their forehead.
Terrible decision, even if there are a decent number of no shows, there still will always be some games going to stream, viewing public wont suffer one bit. And for people saying 20$ is nothing, look at it this way you wouldn't just randomly set it a 20$ bill on fire, and this is exactly what MLG is asking a bunch of people to do, because in reality only 20-30 people have any chance of qualifying.
There is something I do not understand. Code A has 40 players, plus 24 that drop from code S (68 total).
The MLG challenger league has 16 + 24. So the first round will be the round of 24, the second round will be the round of 20 and the third round will be the round of 18? That would only end up with 9 players getting into Premier to join the 8 that remain, and 19 players competing in the up and downs. Therefore: 15 out of the 19 players in the up and downs would advance to premier.
On April 11 2013 04:38 hzflank wrote: There is something I do not understand. Code A has 40 players, plus 24 that drop from code S (68 total).
The MLG challenger league has 16 + 24. So the first round will be the round of 24, the second round will be the round of 20 and the third round will be the round of 18? That would only end up with 9 players getting into Premier to join the 8 that remain, and 19 players competing in the up and downs. Therefore: 15 out of the 19 players in the up and downs would advance to premier.
That cannot be right.
Challenger (Code A) is 16 from qualifiers and 24 from Premier (Code S), so the total is 40, not 68.
On April 11 2013 04:35 kukarachaa wrote: Terrible decision, even if there are a decent number of no shows, there still will always be some games going to stream, viewing public wont suffer one bit. And for people saying 20$ is nothing, look at it this way you wouldn't just randomly set it a 20$ bill on fire, and this is exactly what MLG is asking a bunch of people to do, because in reality only 20-30 people have any chance of qualifying.
you wouldn't randomly set a $20 bill on fire, and that's exactly the point, they don't want a random scrub to just randomly sign up because they can. If you are serious about SC2, you would save 1 dollar per day for 20 days.
People talking like some no-shows can ruin the entire tournament or something. BYEs and gold league sing-ups have been around since EVER and it has never been an issue. TL open, playhem tourneys, zotac cups, who cares about BYEs, it doesn't ruin anything, you can't "troll" the MLG by singing up, that's retarded.
This $20 fee kills up and coming players and is unnecesary, filtering by league is way more smarter. Mr. GM #58 may have a small chance to grab some points at this, but maybe he doesn't want to risk 20 bucks on a long shot. Does that mean he would ruin the tournament by joining it by free? NO.
On April 11 2013 04:45 Fede wrote: People talking like some no-shows can ruin the entire tournament or something. BYEs and gold league sing-ups have been around since EVER and it has never been an issue. TL open, playhem tourneys, zotac cups, who cares about BYEs, it doesn't ruin anything, you can't "troll" the MLG by singing up, that's retarded.
This $20 fee kills up and coming players and is unnecesary, filtering by league is way more smarter. Mr. GM #58 may have a small chance to grab some points at this, but maybe he doesn't want to risk 20 bucks on a long shot. Does that mean he would ruin the tournament by joining it by free? NO.
this just in - saving 50 cents a day for 40 days kills up-and-coming players
Does anyone know if the main tournament will be streamed live or just casted live from replays? I assume replays probably to make sure no one stream cheats.
and also people saying its just 20$ its a non issue, you can only make that distinction for yourself.
I think what most of us are implying is that if $20 is a prohibitive financial issue for you, perhaps esports isn't your biggest problem at the moment.
On April 11 2013 04:38 hzflank wrote: There is something I do not understand. Code A has 40 players, plus 24 that drop from code S (68 total).
The MLG challenger league has 16 + 24. So the first round will be the round of 24, the second round will be the round of 20 and the third round will be the round of 18? That would only end up with 9 players getting into Premier to join the 8 that remain, and 19 players competing in the up and downs. Therefore: 15 out of the 19 players in the up and downs would advance to premier.
That cannot be right.
Challenger (Code A) is 16 from qualifiers and 24 from Premier (Code S), so the total is 40, not 68.
I know, but in the GSL Code A is 40 from Code B qualifiers or Up and Downs and 8 from code S to make a round of 48, then 8 more from code S to make a round of 32 and finally 8 more from code S to make the round of 24. That is 68 players total.
Typically around 18 players will go from up and downs to code A, which still leaves around 22 spots from the qualifiers (it varies every season).
The MLG Challngers (code A) does not look big enough to have 24 players drop from code S to code A during the season.
On April 11 2013 04:45 Fede wrote: People talking like some no-shows can ruin the entire tournament or something. BYEs and gold league sing-ups have been around since EVER and it has never been an issue. TL open, playhem tourneys, zotac cups, who cares about BYEs, it doesn't ruin anything, you can't "troll" the MLG by singing up, that's retarded.
This $20 fee kills up and coming players and is unnecesary, filtering by league is way more smarter. Mr. GM #58 may have a small chance to grab some points at this, but maybe he doesn't want to risk 20 bucks on a long shot. Does that mean he would ruin the tournament by joining it by free? NO.
this just in - saving 50 cents a day for 40 days kills up-and-coming players
yeah make it sound stupid but its still the same. a higher barrier of entry. Its not even an offline qualifier so i dont think that there is anything that could convince me of the necessity of this extra fee.
and also people saying its just 20$ its a non issue, you can only make that distinction for yourself.
I think what most of us are implying is that if $20 is a prohibitive financial issue for you, perhaps esports isn't your biggest problem at the moment.
And what people is argueing is the need of the entry, not how much it affects them monetary wise, specially since we have examples where there is no entrance fee and what MLG_Adam said is a not an issue at all.
On April 11 2013 04:51 Canucklehead wrote: Does anyone know if the main tournament will be streamed live or just casted live from replays? I assume replays probably to make sure no one stream cheats.
Looks like replays from the schedule. The qualifiers itself is Apr 20-21 but the broadcasts are Apr 22-25. I
On April 11 2013 04:51 Canucklehead wrote: Does anyone know if the main tournament will be streamed live or just casted live from replays? I assume replays probably to make sure no one stream cheats.
Looks like replays from the schedule. The qualifiers itself is Apr 20-21 but the broadcasts are Apr 22-25. I
Oh I don't mean the qualifiers itself. I mean the code s matches once we have our 32 players.
On April 11 2013 04:35 kukarachaa wrote: Terrible decision, even if there are a decent number of no shows, there still will always be some games going to stream, viewing public wont suffer one bit. And for people saying 20$ is nothing, look at it this way you wouldn't just randomly set it a 20$ bill on fire, and this is exactly what MLG is asking a bunch of people to do, because in reality only 20-30 people have any chance of qualifying.
you wouldn't randomly set a $20 bill on fire, and that's exactly the point, they don't want a random scrub to just randomly sign up because they can. If you are serious about SC2, you would save 1 dollar per day for 20 days.
If you are serious about SC2 you would know that only about 20 people can win, everyone else is in essence random scrubs.
On April 11 2013 04:55 Doodsmack wrote: $20 is a big deal to people?
Seriously. I use to pay 5-15 dollars on weekly fighting game tournaments. Playing with money on the line is more fun, and you do take your performance more seriously. This $20 fee isn't shit, especially for a chance or get to experience the "big one".
People seem to be missing the bigger picture, from my understanding, this means MLG will only be giving 8 spots (on the premier level) to the (30?) or so Koreans who were just announced to join NA WCS instead of KR.
Is it correct that now these Koreans who chose WCS NA have to compete for 8 Spots? Did they know this before they chose NA? Seems like some of them going to be regretting their choice.
DJWheat posted on twitter earlier today that he'd fund 4 people for the qualifier:
djWHEAT @djWHEAT 2h I will gladly fund 4 TRUE NA citizens for the NA #WCS Qualifier. Hit me up.
I'll also fund 2 people. If you're currently a GM on NA and can't afford the $20, send me a PM. I'm at work right now, but first 2 that contact me and I verify later tonight, I'll paypal the $20.
EDIT: Both gone now, good luck to the two that took me up on the offer.
and also people saying its just 20$ its a non issue, you can only make that distinction for yourself.
I think what most of us are implying is that if $20 is a prohibitive financial issue for you, perhaps esports isn't your biggest problem at the moment.
And what people is argueing is the need of the entry, not how much it affects them monetary wise, specially since we have examples where there is no entrance fee and what MLG_Adam said is a not an issue at all.
$20 is completely reasonable fee. Players are just complaining because they don't want to pay.
On April 11 2013 04:35 kukarachaa wrote: Terrible decision, even if there are a decent number of no shows, there still will always be some games going to stream, viewing public wont suffer one bit. And for people saying 20$ is nothing, look at it this way you wouldn't just randomly set it a 20$ bill on fire, and this is exactly what MLG is asking a bunch of people to do, because in reality only 20-30 people have any chance of qualifying.
you wouldn't randomly set a $20 bill on fire, and that's exactly the point, they don't want a random scrub to just randomly sign up because they can. If you are serious about SC2, you would save 1 dollar per day for 20 days.
If you are serious about SC2 you would know that only about 20 people can win, everyone else is in essence random scrubs.
exactly, so if you believe in your skills and want to have a shot at making a name for yourself, you would do it, but if you are some random scrub, you would pbly rather spend it on some beers. simple as that.
and also people saying its just 20$ its a non issue, you can only make that distinction for yourself.
I think what most of us are implying is that if $20 is a prohibitive financial issue for you, perhaps esports isn't your biggest problem at the moment.
And what people is argueing is the need of the entry, not how much it affects them monetary wise, specially since we have examples where there is no entrance fee and what MLG_Adam said is a not an issue at all.
$20 is completely reasonable fee. Players are just complaining because they don't want to pay.
Ignore the examples that i provide and just follow your nonsense of point.
Is it needed ? Why is needed for MLG and not for GSL/EU ? There are no trolls on europe and korea ? because that's what MLG_Adam is implying.
and also people saying its just 20$ its a non issue, you can only make that distinction for yourself.
I think what most of us are implying is that if $20 is a prohibitive financial issue for you, perhaps esports isn't your biggest problem at the moment.
And what people is argueing is the need of the entry, not how much it affects them monetary wise, specially since we have examples where there is no entrance fee and what MLG_Adam said is a not an issue at all.
$20 is completely reasonable fee. Players are just complaining because they don't want to pay.
Ignore the examples that i provide and just follow your nonsense of point.
Is it needed ? Why is needed for MLG and not for GSL/EU ? There are no trolls on europe and korea ? because that's what MLG_Adam is implying.
Korea is offline bro. also, they had a ton of no-shows for the Code A qualifiers today.
anyways, this is looking pretty good. i like that they are just completely copying the GSL format as it's basically the perfect tournament format. Axeltoss needs to be let go though.
and also people saying its just 20$ its a non issue, you can only make that distinction for yourself.
I think what most of us are implying is that if $20 is a prohibitive financial issue for you, perhaps esports isn't your biggest problem at the moment.
And what people is argueing is the need of the entry, not how much it affects them monetary wise, specially since we have examples where there is no entrance fee and what MLG_Adam said is a not an issue at all.
$20 is completely reasonable fee. Players are just complaining because they don't want to pay.
Ignore the examples that i provide and just follow your nonsense of point.
Is it needed ? Why is needed for MLG and not for GSL/EU ? There are no trolls on europe and korea ? because that's what MLG_Adam is implying.
If ESL or GSL want to put a $20 fee in place that's their call. If they want no fee, also their call. Entry fees are pretty normal, I don't really see what all the fuss is about.
On April 11 2013 04:55 Doodsmack wrote: $20 is a big deal to people?
I would be surprised if people stopped complaining over trivial non-sense
I wish people would understand the complaining. Why should NA have to pay for qualifiers when EU/KR don't have to? That's what has me peeved is that MLG wants to charge money because they can where as EU/KR are free qualifiers.
God this thread and people saying stupid things like "people are really complaining about 20$?" just lol jesus you guys are ignorant.
and also people saying its just 20$ its a non issue, you can only make that distinction for yourself.
I think what most of us are implying is that if $20 is a prohibitive financial issue for you, perhaps esports isn't your biggest problem at the moment.
And what people is argueing is the need of the entry, not how much it affects them monetary wise, specially since we have examples where there is no entrance fee and what MLG_Adam said is a not an issue at all.
$20 is completely reasonable fee. Players are just complaining because they don't want to pay.
Ignore the examples that i provide and just follow your nonsense of point.
Is it needed ? Why is needed for MLG and not for GSL/EU ? There are no trolls on europe and korea ? because that's what MLG_Adam is implying.
If ESL or GSL want to put a $20 fee in place that's their call. If they want no fee, also their call. Entry fees are pretty normal, I don't really see what all the fuss is about.
You probably will need ESL account to join in, and i'd rather pay 20$ than use their website.
On April 11 2013 04:55 Doodsmack wrote: $20 is a big deal to people?
I would be surprised if people stopped complaining over trivial non-sense
I wish people would understand the complaining. Why should NA have to pay for qualifiers when EU/KR don't have to? That's what has me peeved is that MLG wants to charge money because they can where as EU/KR are free qualifiers.
God this thread and people saying stupid things like "people are really complaining about 20$?" just lol jesus you guys are ignorant.
it deters trolls..etc. in an online qualifier, GSL qualifier = offline, which means less of them.. besides, it's their tournament, nobody is forcing anyone to participate if they don't want to pay 20 bucks.
hell, you would pbly still complain if the fee is a penny. christ..
Any word yet if this is their offline portions will be open to public for crowd/audience? With this many Koreans, and no crowds in MLG NY studio, it's going to end up feeling a whole hell of a lot like the MLG Arenas of last year, and not the "Premier" North American event.
On that note, I really hope MLG considers a big California move for studio/WCS responsibilities. It seems to be the best place for the consolidation and development of the NA scene if WCS does eventually accomplish that goal. It has the best ping to KR for players to practice, has Blizzard and NASL offices/studios there, and several teams have expressed interest in setting up team houses in the area. If there is any place in America where MLG could recreate a GSL style regular studio event, it would be in California with WCS.
and also people saying its just 20$ its a non issue, you can only make that distinction for yourself.
I think what most of us are implying is that if $20 is a prohibitive financial issue for you, perhaps esports isn't your biggest problem at the moment.
And what people is argueing is the need of the entry, not how much it affects them monetary wise, specially since we have examples where there is no entrance fee and what MLG_Adam said is a not an issue at all.
$20 is completely reasonable fee. Players are just complaining because they don't want to pay.
Ignore the examples that i provide and just follow your nonsense of point.
Is it needed ? Why is needed for MLG and not for GSL/EU ? There are no trolls on europe and korea ? because that's what MLG_Adam is implying.
If ESL or GSL want to put a $20 fee in place that's their call. If they want no fee, also their call. Entry fees are pretty normal, I don't really see what all the fuss is about.
You probably will need ESL account to join in, and i'd rather pay 20$ than use their website.
MLG site isn't better, fyi. lol.
And as many have said, keep the discussion to the fact that NA has an entry fee but KR/EU do not. That is the wierd/confusing part. Although $20 is the greatest entry fee to a major tournament qualifier that I have seen; an entry fee is not unheard of and is perfectly reasonable for the reason MLG_Adam gave.
So, IE. Is it fair/right for NA to have an entry fee when KR/EU do not? (is the debate that seems worth a possible debate)
On April 11 2013 04:55 Doodsmack wrote: $20 is a big deal to people?
I would be surprised if people stopped complaining over trivial non-sense
I wish people would understand the complaining. Why should NA have to pay for qualifiers when EU/KR don't have to? That's what has me peeved is that MLG wants to charge money because they can where as EU/KR are free qualifiers.
God this thread and people saying stupid things like "people are really complaining about 20$?" just lol jesus you guys are ignorant.
it deters trolls..etc. in an online qualifier, GSL qualifier = offline, which means less of them.. besides, it's their tournament, nobody is forcing anyone to participate if they don't want to pay 20 bucks.
hell, you would pbly still complain if the fee is a penny. christ..
And its not even their $20, that is the best part. People complaining because someone ELSE has to pay $20 to compete in an event, run by a for profit company.
On April 11 2013 04:55 Doodsmack wrote: $20 is a big deal to people?
I would be surprised if people stopped complaining over trivial non-sense
I wish people would understand the complaining. Why should NA have to pay for qualifiers when EU/KR don't have to? That's what has me peeved is that MLG wants to charge money because they can where as EU/KR are free qualifiers.
God this thread and people saying stupid things like "people are really complaining about 20$?" just lol jesus you guys are ignorant.
it deters trolls..etc. in an online qualifier, GSL qualifier = offline, which means less of them.. besides, it's their tournament, nobody is forcing anyone to participate if they don't want to pay 20 bucks.
hell, you would pbly still complain if the fee is a penny. christ..
And its not even their $20, that is the best part. People complaining because someone ELSE has to pay $20 to compete in an event, run by a for profit company.
I think you are getting it backwards. They are complaining that they have to pay $20 while participants for other regions do not. It's an understandable sentiment and I don't think anyone can argue that it is fair. It is however, a reasonable request. MLG is the organizer of NA and they make the rules.
On April 11 2013 04:55 Doodsmack wrote: $20 is a big deal to people?
I would be surprised if people stopped complaining over trivial non-sense
I wish people would understand the complaining. Why should NA have to pay for qualifiers when EU/KR don't have to? That's what has me peeved is that MLG wants to charge money because they can where as EU/KR are free qualifiers.
God this thread and people saying stupid things like "people are really complaining about 20$?" just lol jesus you guys are ignorant.
it deters trolls..etc. in an online qualifier, GSL qualifier = offline, which means less of them.. besides, it's their tournament, nobody is forcing anyone to participate if they don't want to pay 20 bucks.
hell, you would pbly still complain if the fee is a penny. christ..
And its not even their $20, that is the best part. People complaining because someone ELSE has to pay $20 to compete in an event, run by a for profit company.
I think you are getting it backwards. They are complaining that they have to pay $20 while participants for other regions do not. It's an understandable sentiment and I don't think anyone can argue that it is fair. It is however, a reasonable request. MLG is the organizer of NA and they make the rules.
I don't think the majority of people complaining in this thread have plans to compete in WSC NA. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.
what's the deal with spending the $20, MLG open bracket would cost $70. Granted you got to watch the entire tournament as well but the spectator pass was about 30-35, so you still spent about 40 to play. They practically cut the cost in half for people wanting to compete this is a good thing.
On April 11 2013 04:55 Doodsmack wrote: $20 is a big deal to people?
I would be surprised if people stopped complaining over trivial non-sense
I wish people would understand the complaining. Why should NA have to pay for qualifiers when EU/KR don't have to? That's what has me peeved is that MLG wants to charge money because they can where as EU/KR are free qualifiers.
God this thread and people saying stupid things like "people are really complaining about 20$?" just lol jesus you guys are ignorant.
it deters trolls..etc. in an online qualifier, GSL qualifier = offline, which means less of them.. besides, it's their tournament, nobody is forcing anyone to participate if they don't want to pay 20 bucks.
hell, you would pbly still complain if the fee is a penny. christ..
my eyes hut after reading this post... What do you mean by trolls? low league players? thats fixeable GSL qualifiers get no shows and i'm pretty sure it gets some low league players too, "Their tournament" ? are you serious? this is a Blizzard tournament
How does EG compete in most of these online tourneys living in AZ then? obviously for the LAN mlg events its no issue, but im curious as to how they play in the online portion.
On April 11 2013 06:37 DogDirt wrote: How does EG compete in most of these online tourneys living in AZ then? obviously for the LAN mlg events its no issue, but im curious as to how they play in the online portion.
I don't understand the question. They have the internet in AZ.
On April 11 2013 04:29 EleanorRIgby wrote: WTF EU and KR are free. Why is NA getting fucked over so hard.
and also people saying its just 20$ its a non issue, you can only make that distinction for yourself.
Allow me to clarify $20 is not a non-issue for everyone, but $20 for a registration fee for an online tournament for a video game for pure entertainment value IS a non-issue.
On April 11 2013 06:37 DogDirt wrote: How does EG compete in most of these online tourneys living in AZ then? obviously for the LAN mlg events its no issue, but im curious as to how they play in the online portion.
I don't understand the question. They have the internet in AZ.
From what i can tell(having tried to signup for the free tournaments) Players from AZ, MD, ND CT and VT are unable to register as competitors due to local state laws. Its considered Online gambling
On April 11 2013 06:37 DogDirt wrote: How does EG compete in most of these online tourneys living in AZ then? obviously for the LAN mlg events its no issue, but im curious as to how they play in the online portion.
I don't understand the question. They have the internet in AZ.
From what i can tell(having tried to signup for the free tournaments) Players from AZ, MD, ND CT and VT are unable to register as competitors due to local state laws. Its considered Online gambling
Not sure. If you are really really interested you should pm EG.LectR (one of EGs mangers) to find out.
Why are people focusing on the entry fee? The actual problem is that Koreans are going to destroy everyone and there will be more viewers in the round of 64 than the fucking finals. Until Koreans can only play in the KR quals then the 20 dollar entry fee doesn't really matter because any player actually from NA will get destroyed regardless.
On April 11 2013 07:12 Niyanyo wrote: So... I am in Mexico, how could I play for the North America qualifier when the MLG online events for MLG credits are United States locked!!!
You have to pay the $18.75...this is not an MLG event, and it is stated that anyone can enter, so the rules of USA only do not apply.
I like the $20. If someone is actually serious about such a prestige tournament, they will not bitch about $20. The majority of people who will bitch about this are the people who aren't serious enough and shouldn't play in such a tournament in the first place. EDIT: by prestige, I mean the prize money of course. I don't know how deep in skill this tournament will be compared to Korea.
On April 11 2013 03:07 MLG_Adam wrote: If the qualifier was free to enter a huge % of the matches would be no shows. We want this qualifier to be taken seriously by those wishing to participate.
If thats the sole case adam Why not a $20 registration fee with a $20 refunded once the players have played all their games and keeping $20 if they no-show?
Seems practical. Unless you dont want to admit that youre wanting to profit off of this.
Because imagine having to keep track of everyone's money and trying to refund it all back to people. Seems like a large waste of time to me. And then some people might try and mess the system by saying they didn't get their money back when they really did.(yes dishonest people actually exist everywhere.) Also, last time I checked, MLG is a business. A business that doesn't look to make profit on what they do is a dead business. They shouldn't have to feel the need to tell everyone all the time that they're trying to make a profitable business in Esports. If you want charity then you should go somewhere else because if no one makes money and gives everything for free, then they will disappear and so will the scene.
you got plenty of free tournaments to play on, and in the mlg free ones you get credits for winning.
i dont see the issue here, anyone below mid masters shouldnt be there anyway so if you already won some minitourneys and want to take your chances with the big boys you pay the credits... looks ok for me.
some random. gold guy that only plays ladder doesnt belong wcs, try with free online tourneys first.
On April 11 2013 07:27 Meatloaf wrote: you got plenty of free tournaments to play on, and in the mlg free ones you get credits for winning.
i dont see the issue here, anyone below mid masters shouldnt be there anyway so if you already won some minitourneys and want to take your chances with the big boys you pay the credits... looks ok for me.
some random. gold guy that only plays ladder doesnt belong wcs, try with free online tourneys first.
As i state above, those tournaments are only for US residents, fyi. So, anyone outside the US (canada, mexico, SA, anywhere else) would have to pay. And the most frustration is that NA has a fee, but the others do not.
Something I havent seen discussed, but I would like to give kudos to MLG for is the, basically, offline competition over a week...though as we see from the announced player lists and invites it hasn't deterred players that much, but should give some more thought to those who want to travel to a different region for these. And in the future more should be offline.
20 bucks to enter an online qualifier for the event? Will I at least get a bumpersticker that says "I tried to qualify for WCS NA but all I got was an ass kicking by a korean and this bumpersticker."
Do people ready their pitchforks before even opening a thread?
$20 dollars is a lot of money to some people. $20 to someone who can afford a computer, Internet, and new release games should not be.
Why is NA $20 and EU and KR not? MLG_Adam gave their reasoning, and I think it's a valid one.
Does the same problem exist in KR and EU? Well we're not sure about EU, but certainly in KR there are lots of no shows. KR and EU have decided that they'll just cope with the problem. MLG has decided to try and limit the problem. To me that seems reasonable and is certainly their prerogative.
Blizzard could have easily dictated that no entry fee should be required. They clearly haven't. It looks like MLG been given autonomy on how to run their qualifier and they've decided this is a good way to limit the entrants.
I was reading the MLG thread for the tournament and was a little confused, so I had to make some kind of graphic to try and make sense of it. Figured I might as well post it to Reddit to help anyone else in the same situation.
I was reading the MLG thread for the tournament and was a little confused, so I had to make some kind of graphic to try and make sense of it. Figured I might as well post it to Reddit to help anyone else in the same situation.
This seems correct, though we don't know the number of players allowed in the 2nd qualifier, but a fair assumption. Will add to OP. Thanks.
On April 11 2013 02:38 mrRoflpwn wrote: Why not just make it you have to have minimum 700 points as Masters like GSL does it? That way its free and you wont have gold idiots signing up.
With all the hackers on NA, I think we are all set with $20.
Seriously, are any of the people freaking out going to enter the qualifier? Is it your $20? Doesn't MLG charge for competitors passes for their normal events to keep out the trolls?
Seriously, the local pick up lacrosse league charges $35. Get over it.
but you get play on a rented green man. this isn't physical space, it's cyber space. That's the whole point of admen selling ads in eSports - owners win, advertisers win, competitors win, viewers win. i don't agree with this rule. i think it should be less, or at least throw in a viewership pass so that even if you lose you can watch for free.
On April 11 2013 03:07 MLG_Adam wrote: If the qualifier was free to enter a huge % of the matches would be no shows. We want this qualifier to be taken seriously by those wishing to participate.
yea because limiting the qualis to gm players/high master leaguers only would have been too hard
I don't think that would have prevented the no shows in any way. They would just be really highly ranked no shows.
Yeah, GSL has Masters+ only to qualify yet like a quarter or a fifth of the players don't even show up (there's at least 1 or 2 no shows in each groups).
Edit - $20 does seem high though. Seems better to make it $10 (half the credits or approximately half) or something.
oh come on, it's not even 20 bucks. not like people from third world country is gonna fly over here to play if you can't even afford 20 bucks, you really shouldn't be playing starcraft
On April 11 2013 13:54 ETisME wrote: oh come on, it's not even 20 bucks. not like people from third world country is gonna fly over here to play if you can't even afford 20 bucks, you really shouldn't be playing starcraft
if you cant afford 20 bucks, you cant afford the plane ticket.....
On April 11 2013 13:54 ETisME wrote: oh come on, it's not even 20 bucks. not like people from third world country is gonna fly over here to play if you can't even afford 20 bucks, you really shouldn't be playing starcraft
The purpose of the $20 at least from MLG_Adam is to stop a lot of no shows. The same exact thing can be accomplished with $5. The moment someone has to use a credit card or paypal or whatever is enough of a barrier for the majority of no shows. It could be $1 and it would stop the majority of no shows. So again you have to wonder why they decided with $18.75. You add to the fact that this is for each qualifier and it does get extreme for an amateur who is trying to break into the scene in what's supposed to be an open competition. Just when you think things can't get worse, they do.
I also always love it though when an issue comes up involving money people just can't help themselves to start calling everyone cheap or poor. People don't put the same value in things that others do. Some people would pay thousands of dollars for a shitty Nintendo game while others would throw it in the trash without thinking twice. Is $18.75 worth it to just get demolished in the first round by a Code S Korean if you get an unlucky draw? How about the second round? Third maybe? Should someone only try if they are confident in beating a Code S Korean? Guaranteed even less foreigners competing. Congratulations.
On April 11 2013 13:54 ETisME wrote: oh come on, it's not even 20 bucks. not like people from third world country is gonna fly over here to play if you can't even afford 20 bucks, you really shouldn't be playing starcraft
if you cant afford 20 bucks, you cant afford the plane ticket.....
If you are within the US travel is provided by MLG. Try again.
On April 11 2013 13:54 ETisME wrote: oh come on, it's not even 20 bucks. not like people from third world country is gonna fly over here to play if you can't even afford 20 bucks, you really shouldn't be playing starcraft
if you cant afford 20 bucks, you cant afford the plane ticket.....
If you are within the US travel is provided by MLG. Try again.
US isnt a third world country (arguably). try again.
It could have been $5. Hell it could have been a $1 card check, you know where you're charged but gets refunded. That would surely weed out most of the bullshitters / no-shows just as effectively. But no, it's $18.75 / 25 "MLG credits". It just screams greed, I think people have every right to voice their opinion about it.
On April 11 2013 13:54 ETisME wrote: oh come on, it's not even 20 bucks. not like people from third world country is gonna fly over here to play if you can't even afford 20 bucks, you really shouldn't be playing starcraft
if you cant afford 20 bucks, you cant afford the plane ticket.....
If you are within the US travel is provided by MLG. Try again.
I don't get why everyone keeps going back to the $20 part...while it is the most i've heard of for a major event qualifier, it's $20...the real question is why does America have an entry fee but EU and Korea do not?
On April 11 2013 15:03 Prplppleatr wrote: I don't get why everyone keeps going back to the $20 part...while it is the most i've heard of for a major event qualifier, it's $20...the real question is why does America have an entry fee but EU and Korea do not?
Each tournament is run by their respective organisations. MLG gave the reason for their fee. Obviously KR and EU don't see that as a problem for their tournaments. I can see that in Korea's case, but for online EU, I think it'll be a nightmare trying to chase up the no-shows.
Wow nerds pay nearly that much a month to play their game and we get huffy because they want competitive players to pay... is it once a year, or three times? I'm still fuzzy on the format. Either way, I live off barely more than minimum wage and I could still make $20 every three months work. Sorry about your starbucks, I guess?
On April 11 2013 15:03 Prplppleatr wrote: I don't get why everyone keeps going back to the $20 part...while it is the most i've heard of for a major event qualifier, it's $20...the real question is why does America have an entry fee but EU and Korea do not?
Each tournament is run by their respective organisations. MLG gave the reason for their fee. Obviously KR and EU don't see that as a problem for their tournaments. I can see that in Korea's case, but for online EU, I think it'll be a nightmare trying to chase up the no-shows.
It is just odd that it is only America. Though it is their option.
LOL Keep it up WCS. First you fuck up with WCS Korea and completely fuck GSL hype by essentially forcing Korean players who aren't currently (or qualify) for Code A/Code S to go over to America and Europe WCS. This causes there to be a huge upset in the majority of the foreign community that actually care about the direction of their scenes growth since there's essentially no shot for them anymore and almost guaranteed Koreans are going to just stomp out every region.
Adding more fuel to what's already a burning forest fire that hundreds of firefighters are trying to put out, you add a $20 fee to an ONLINE TOURNAMENT with 256 people where it's highly unlikely you're going to get anywhere with the amount of rounds you're going to have to go through on top of the enormous talent pool that's going to be in it. Don't enter through the 2 massive qualifiers? Well thanks for your money, twat. Try again in 2014.
We're so fucked before LotV comes out if this continues to be the direction we go in. Maybe Destiny was right after all. Let's not forget that EU is going to be completely open and free, as is KR through their Code A qualifiers. gg blizz, no re.
entrance fee doesn't bother me at all in its own right. now if you charge players an entrance fee and then subsequently charge viewers to watch the qualifiers, then there's a problem.
Like a lot of people said 18.75 to stop no shows is a weird reason, they could have easily done the same for 5$, also I am really interested about the point that someone has brought up earlier. Some states in the U.S. have laws that won't allow their residents to participate in this tournament since they equate this to online gambling. We go from the "Open bracket everyone will have shot, our scene will grow, new stars will rise" to 20$ barrier and yes it can potentially deter some young 14,15 year kids from trying who might have good potential etc and also will screw players from certain states.
The entry fee should be encouraged rather than scorned. The people entering these tourneys should be at least serious enough to shell out $20, and it brings money into our community.
But WCS is quickly becoming a joke. Catz pretty much hit the nail on head with his article. Blizzard isn't supporting or investing in the E-Sports cultural in anywhere except Korea.
On April 11 2013 15:24 kukarachaa wrote: Like a lot of people said 18.75 to stop no shows is a weird reason, they could have easily done the same for 5$, also I am really interested about the point that someone has brought up earlier. Some states in the U.S. have laws that won't allow their residents to participate in this tournament since they equate this to online gambling. We go from the "Open bracket everyone will have shot, our scene will grow, new stars will rise" to 20$ barrier and yes it can potentially deter some young 14,15 year kids from trying who might have good potential etc and also will screw players from certain states.
I'd be very surprised if this turned out to be true. The only real difference between and entry fee for a chess/karate/soccer tournament and a SC2 tournament is one is played on a computer over the internet. All are played against a human opponent and all are skill based games, no randomness or 'luck' is involved. Yes laws can be stupid sometimes, but even if it technically fell under the definition of gambling, I doubt it'd be pursued legally by any state.
If anyone has actually had difficulty with these laws, then provide some sources, otherwise I'm going to say it's a non-concern.
On April 11 2013 15:24 kukarachaa wrote: Like a lot of people said 18.75 to stop no shows is a weird reason, they could have easily done the same for 5$, also I am really interested about the point that someone has brought up earlier. Some states in the U.S. have laws that won't allow their residents to participate in this tournament since they equate this to online gambling. We go from the "Open bracket everyone will have shot, our scene will grow, new stars will rise" to 20$ barrier and yes it can potentially deter some young 14,15 year kids from trying who might have good potential etc and also will screw players from certain states.
I'd be very surprised if this turned out to be true. The only real difference between and entry fee for a chess/karate/soccer tournament and a SC2 tournament is one is played on a computer over the internet. All are played against a human opponent and all are skill based games, no randomness or 'luck' is involved. Yes laws can be stupid sometimes, but even if it technically fell under the definition of gambling, I doubt it'd be pursued legally by any state.
If anyone has actually had difficulty with these laws, then provide some sources, otherwise I'm going to say it's a non-concern.
I think a case could be made for SC2 being 'amusement gaming'.
Yeah i suppose for the random player you could register under a different state/fake address with no issue(although out of random chance you place high enough to travel, your wins may be voided? or some other form of action taken if they are able to find out). Many people under age were playing Online poker with absolutely no issue or legal action taken(which imo is much more serious than this) Was just curious how this was working for Teams who are established and known to reside in Arizona. Ill try and see if maybe i can get an answer from someone on the team for anyone else that's curious.
On April 12 2013 01:30 ( bush wrote: is there a reason to explain why WCS EU qualify is free and NA is not?
MLG said that they want people who sign up for this tourney to be serious so they put a fee. Otherwise they said they would have too many people signing up and be no shows. Now i have no idea why this wont happen in WCS EU but i know in Korea there is usually some byes due to no shows but not nearly the amount of people that MLG says there will be. I guess this could be due to Korea is offline qualifiers.
On April 11 2013 15:18 Maesy wrote: LOL Keep it up WCS. First you fuck up with WCS Korea and completely fuck GSL hype by essentially forcing Korean players who aren't currently (or qualify) for Code A/Code S to go over to America and Europe WCS. This causes there to be a huge upset in the majority of the foreign community that actually care about the direction of their scenes growth since there's essentially no shot for them anymore and almost guaranteed Koreans are going to just stomp out every region.
Adding more fuel to what's already a burning forest fire that hundreds of firefighters are trying to put out, you add a $20 fee to an ONLINE TOURNAMENT with 256 people where it's highly unlikely you're going to get anywhere with the amount of rounds you're going to have to go through on top of the enormous talent pool that's going to be in it. Don't enter through the 2 massive qualifiers? Well thanks for your money, twat. Try again in 2014.
We're so fucked before LotV comes out if this continues to be the direction we go in. Maybe Destiny was right after all. Let's not forget that EU is going to be completely open and free, as is KR through their Code A qualifiers. gg blizz, no re.
You really stuck it to them with this post. Good job, Maesy. They'll get right on it.
On April 11 2013 15:46 BronzeKnee wrote: I don't mind the fee for playing.
But WCS is quickly becoming a joke. Catz pretty much hit the nail on head with his article. Blizzard isn't supporting or investing in the E-Sports cultural in anywhere except Korea.
Korea has the most weight to throw around, since they are focused to deal with OGN, Kespa and GSL. I bet in the next year or so we are going to hear a lot about how much Korea groups and leagues were pushing for rules that benefited their players and leagues. People have forgotten how cutthroat the Korean teams were with NASL season 2(pulling out at the last minute) and I am willing to bet they did the similar things here.
This is a completely reasonable move by MLG and the people who have any reasonable shot at winning these things or any real desire to compete in them are not going to be deterred by a $20 fee.
On April 12 2013 02:01 Cyrak wrote: This is a completely reasonable move by MLG and the people who have any reasonable shot at winning these things or any real desire to compete in them are not going to be deterred by a $20 fee.
I wouldn't say that. Theres going to be 10+ koreans fighting for these 8 spots in this first tournament, the only reason to pay money, realistically, is to get to lose vs a korean. No offense to anyone who really wants to try their luck, but I would bet against you. (though this is true whether there is or isn't an entry fee)
While blizzard may have had the best intentions at heart, it blinded them. This event does not foster growth and interest in competing, it hinders it.
On April 11 2013 15:18 Maesy wrote: LOL Keep it up WCS. First you fuck up with WCS Korea and completely fuck GSL hype by essentially forcing Korean players who aren't currently (or qualify) for Code A/Code S to go over to America and Europe WCS. This causes there to be a huge upset in the majority of the foreign community that actually care about the direction of their scenes growth since there's essentially no shot for them anymore and almost guaranteed Koreans are going to just stomp out every region.
Adding more fuel to what's already a burning forest fire that hundreds of firefighters are trying to put out, you add a $20 fee to an ONLINE TOURNAMENT with 256 people where it's highly unlikely you're going to get anywhere with the amount of rounds you're going to have to go through on top of the enormous talent pool that's going to be in it. Don't enter through the 2 massive qualifiers? Well thanks for your money, twat. Try again in 2014.
We're so fucked before LotV comes out if this continues to be the direction we go in. Maybe Destiny was right after all. Let's not forget that EU is going to be completely open and free, as is KR through their Code A qualifiers. gg blizz, no re.
You really stuck it to them with this post. Good job, Maesy. They'll get right on it.
Thanks man. I'm glad people such as yourself support this travesty of a tournament format thus far, and then claim it's good for esports.
On April 12 2013 02:01 Cyrak wrote: This is a completely reasonable move by MLG and the people who have any reasonable shot at winning these things or any real desire to compete in them are not going to be deterred by a $20 fee.
I wouldn't say that. Theres going to be 10+ koreans fighting for these 8 spots in this first tournament, the only reason to pay money, realistically, is to get to lose vs a korean. No offense to anyone who really wants to try their luck, but I would bet against you.
You have just proven why the $20 fee is reasonable. If a players main concern is losing $20 because you get matched with a Korean, they may wish to consider not competing.
On April 11 2013 15:46 BronzeKnee wrote: I don't mind the fee for playing.
But WCS is quickly becoming a joke. Catz pretty much hit the nail on head with his article. Blizzard isn't supporting or investing in the E-Sports cultural in anywhere except Korea.
I think it's the opposite of the bolded statement. See this post:
On April 10 2013 23:50 BeyondCtrL wrote: I think everyone is forgetting some facts here. Blizzard wants for these regional plays to be all offline, however, currently the infrastructure doesn't exist in NA or EU at the same level as KR. To be fair to all parties this year has online qualifiers, since you can't expect for players and entire teams to immediately get a new team house etc. established in NA and EU. Such endeavors take a lot of time, negotiation and money.
The WCS tournaments and qualifiers are intended to eventually become all offline like the GSL, and in 2014 I think we will see ESL and MLG begin to facilitate the much needed static infrastructure to do this. When the regional WCS become all offline the Koreans and Korean teams (only Incredible Miracle has so far dedicated players, all other teams are foreign owned) can consider permanently relocating to another region. Once this begins happening the level of play in regions should start improving further.
I honestly don't know how people can expect immediate results. I'm sure that Blizzard, more than anyone, is scared of alienating and losing the foreign scenes and fan bases. I mean, they practically state this. I'm also sure that this year's format is not their ideal setting but it was the best that could happen considering how many partners are involved, not to mention how some of them strongly disliked each other.
Step One: Introduce regional leagues that should one day be equal. Players and teams are, between regions, too disparate in skill and organization. Diluting is needed. How to achieve this?
Step Two: Woo Korean teams and infrastructure with money that is not completely centralized in Seoul. Get them accustomed to the prospect that relocating is feasible. If the initial region locks are too severe then regions will become too insulated and will actually hurt long term growth.
Thus moderate region locks are implemented with online qualifiers. Korean players and teams aren't so rich that they can buy a team house in some random city in EU or NA. On top of this there is no set location for offline events like GOM in Seoul. What incentive is there when you get a house in Poland and the tournament location is in France or Germany, or elsewhere? The Korean scene is possible because everything is centralized in one city.
Step Three: Build partnerships with MLG and ESL where eventually static studios are formed in set cities. Once this happens each region will have their Seoul, so to speak of. All team houses, players, and tournaments connected with WCS (or only WCS) can be centralized to one location in each region. Once this part forms:
Step Four: Regional WCS events become all offline. Select few Koreans might move (excluding foreign team Koreans) to new regions and transfer team houses. These few Korean teams aren't stupid, they know where their advantages come from and I highly doubt the coaches think that just because their players are Korean they are naturally better. They know that it's their methods, not nationality or race. At this stage it might become more reasonable that Korean (now formerly, in fact) teams would scout for talented players in the region (considering Visa and permanent living, and many other factors). Major's dream was to be able to play in a Kespa team and I think this sort of dream will become much more realistic for future and current players who have the ambition and dedication. Over time the formerly Korean teams will begin to initiate more and more regional players and provide them with the environment that has been lacking so severely. This is not to say the it wouldn't be possible without them but these teams have so many years of experience that it would help to jump start the process.
Another major advantage, already mentioned, is the centralized location. I think as the dust settles teams will start to realize what a boon this is. As EU and NA get those centralized locations it will become much more realistic to form team houses in the city where most of the money is. Right now tournaments outside of KR are all over the place, and if you do have a team house you will still spend a lot on travel expenses. Not to mention the stresses and inconveniences it imposes. Everyone is raging at how the NA scene is dead, but imagine this for a moment:
Late 2013/Early 2014, MLG establishes permanent SC2 WCS studio in LA/San Fran, all games are now offline. Since all of EG and TL have relocated it would mean that all the players would either have to go back to Korea or move to existing houses. This means all these great players and Coach Park would be under the same roof as, presumably, your favorite EG/TL non-Korean players. Imagine for a moment IdrA, Thorzain, HuK, Stephano living with all these great players and coach Park. Since EG and TL are foreign owned and now have a proper team house with a proper coach, they can begin to recruit tons of talent in the region. Though this scenario is imagined and the date overly optimistic, the probability of such a scenario becomes very possible with the transitional year that we have now.
Or what if ROOT creates a house and engages in negotiation with an eSF or Kespa team? The NA team can provide the facilities and the KR team can bring the knowledge and infrastructure. Both parties would benefit immensely where ROOT can learn, recruit and improve dramatically. Sure the Koreans might be leading the pack, but over time the mutual agreement transfers a lot of the knowledge and methods that were previously, for all intents and purposes, completely exclusive. Maybe the partnership lasts a year, or two? How much could the management of a foreign team learn over this time? When they part ways could they apply it later on and could they build stronger rosters and improve the competitiveness of their current ones?
Do these steps happen over night? No. I read CatZ's post and there is much to be agreed about in there, but at the same time I see so many flaws, especially in his argument about long term growth; which I find quite frankly short sighted. Long term is not a year, or two, or three. It's 10 years or more. It's not about ROOT, or TL, or any current team. It's about that future, in 2030, or 2040 where e-sports is (hopefully) a globally recognized form of competition with lots of funding and public support. Blizzard, though I'm not certain about this, might already acknowledge that the gap between Korean teams and full foreign teams might be too large, and that this generation is possibly lost (I'm being overly pessimistic here). But by inviting Korean teams and infrastructure they will build a stage for players in EU and NA many years down the road to join teams that are descended from Korean team houses and all the benefits that entail to these future careers.
On April 12 2013 02:01 Cyrak wrote: This is a completely reasonable move by MLG and the people who have any reasonable shot at winning these things or any real desire to compete in them are not going to be deterred by a $20 fee.
I wouldn't say that. Theres going to be 10+ koreans fighting for these 8 spots in this first tournament, the only reason to pay money, realistically, is to get to lose vs a korean. No offense to anyone who really wants to try their luck, but I would bet against you.
You have just proven why the $20 fee is reasonable. If a players main concern is losing $20 because you get matched with a Korean, they may wish to consider not competing.
You replied before i got my edit in, but I was talking more about the event in general, and the entry fee has no effect on what i was talking about.
On April 12 2013 02:19 onedayclose wrote: Why do all the matches have to begin at 8pm ET? Is the eastern/central timezones the only ones you care about?
Well, I don't like watching SC2 starting at 9 oclock until 1 am. It ruins my work day. And why do people think SC2 events and shows somehow control the sun?
The player fee is atrocious. Yeah, pay up $20 and play MC in the first round. This is just stupid. Do something like NASL instead. Have them invest money they get back if they don't qualify OR they attend matches as they're expected to.
I think you can earn the gamebatlles points anyway by participating in their regular small tournaments? Should be easy for someone that deserves to be in the main league skillwise to win a couple of those.
On April 12 2013 02:33 Spidinko wrote: The player fee is atrocious. Yeah, pay up $20 and play MC in the first round. This is just stupid. Do something like NASL instead. Have them invest money they get back if they don't qualify OR they attend matches as they're expected to.
I don't understand why people are bitching about the price. Nobody feel like seeing a bunch of Bronze League players play badly. You lucky they don't cap it at Grand Master players only... Only pros should show up!!! Don't waste anybody time if your below Master Level.
this whole WCS is an abomination. Pay to enter, invites, no region locking, koreans leaving code S to play on NA, Foreigners will never go to korea again, whats the point?
Its just terrible, worst thought out system ever
How to run WCS properly instead of hiding behind excuses like "oh its the first tournament"LAWL ?
-Region lock, if you are a foreigner to a region, you must be living at or very near to said region. ( example southamericans playing on NA) -No invites, each region has qualifiers -To enter you must be mid-high level masters or higher -No payment to enter qualifier -over 1000 players per qualifier
3 regions USA/EUROPE/ASIA
Top 32 of each realm gets some sort of payment for reaching that far.
What we have now is sooooooooo terrible that WCS before was better . Right now what we going to have is 3 regions all won by koreans for a korean final. Whats the point of the regions anyway with this system?
So terrible, so horrible, so disgusting. Blizzard does not disappoint as this degree of bad is expected of them
Over a 1000 Players ? That would take too much time, even GSL only do 500+ qualifiers. Invites had to happen because it's the first WCS. An Asia and USA region ? First, The USA is one country. What about Canada , South American and Mexico?Also, you can't put China and Taiwan all in the same region with Korea. That's just wrong.
On April 12 2013 08:24 will216 wrote: Over a 1000 Players ? That would take too much time, even GSL only do 500+ qualifiers. Invites had to happen because it's the first WCS. An Asia and USA region ? First, The USA is one country. What about Canada , South American and Mexico?Also, you can't put China and Taiwan all in the same region with Korea. That's just wrong.
its all online you dummy. 1000 players is nothing when its been done before. You use a website and input your results after the game while there are a couple channel mod's overseeing the results.
On April 12 2013 08:24 will216 wrote: Over a 1000 Players ? That would take too much time, even GSL only do 500+ qualifiers. Invites had to happen because it's the first WCS. An Asia and USA region ? First, The USA is one country. What about Canada , South American and Mexico?Also, you can't put China and Taiwan all in the same region with Korea. That's just wrong.
its all online you dummy. 1000 players is nothing when its been done before. You use a website and input your results after the game while there are a couple channel mod's overseeing the results.
I think he has something here. We need websites and a couple of mods. Just a couple for 1,000 people. We need to get a hold of MLG, they have been doing it wrong all along. Websites are the key. This will work and be totally awesome.
On April 12 2013 08:24 will216 wrote: Over a 1000 Players ? That would take too much time, even GSL only do 500+ qualifiers. Invites had to happen because it's the first WCS. An Asia and USA region ? First, The USA is one country. What about Canada , South American and Mexico?Also, you can't put China and Taiwan all in the same region with Korea. That's just wrong.
its all online you dummy. 1000 players is nothing when its been done before. You use a website and input your results after the game while there are a couple channel mod's overseeing the results.
But do we need over 1000 people try to qualify ? You know 90% of them people aren't pros.
Added to OP. @dashiz, i'm guessing blizzard mentioned something, but if it was mlg kudos
Still no cap on rank" rolls eyes ". Great, Half of the matches will be over in a 2 min. Or you will have people cheesing there way through it all.
But at least people will be playing and have some interest...i know who ever beats me i will follow in the brackets to see them get crushed lol...for a skilled player, it doesn't matter...just means more work for MLG admins, sry medic
Added to OP. @dashiz, i'm guessing blizzard mentioned something, but if it was mlg kudos
Still no cap on rank" rolls eyes ". Great, Half of the matches will be over in a 2 min. Or you will have people cheesing there way through it all.
I like this part too:
"MLG will reserve 64 spots in the bracket for invited players."
Subtext: We might put these people in a special part of the bracket so they don't have to deal you idiots flying building around to draw out the game. Those who survive the morons will play against them in later rounds.
On April 12 2013 08:11 johnny123 wrote: this whole WCS is an abomination. Pay to enter, invites, no region locking, koreans leaving code S to play on NA, Foreigners will never go to korea again, whats the point?
Its just terrible, worst thought out system ever
How to run WCS properly instead of hiding behind excuses like "oh its the first tournament"LAWL ?
-Region lock, if you are a foreigner to a region, you must be living at or very near to said region. ( example southamericans playing on NA) -No invites, each region has qualifiers -To enter you must be mid-high level masters or higher -No payment to enter qualifier -over 1000 players per qualifier
3 regions USA/EUROPE/ASIA
Top 32 of each realm gets some sort of payment for reaching that far.
What we have now is sooooooooo terrible that WCS before was better . Right now what we going to have is 3 regions all won by koreans for a korean final. Whats the point of the regions anyway with this system?
So terrible, so horrible, so disgusting. Blizzard does not disappoint as this degree of bad is expected of them
Entrance fee comments are funny, that argument with golds trolling the tournament. It is as if there is no possibility to add a ladder rank restriction, which they should really apply.
And I just got reminded that MLG events always had one of the highest Korean participant percentage, so WCS NA fits perfectly into that haha.
On April 12 2013 08:24 will216 wrote: Over a 1000 Players ? That would take too much time, even GSL only do 500+ qualifiers. Invites had to happen because it's the first WCS. An Asia and USA region ? First, The USA is one country. What about Canada , South American and Mexico?Also, you can't put China and Taiwan all in the same region with Korea. That's just wrong.
its all online you dummy. 1000 players is nothing when its been done before. You use a website and input your results after the game while there are a couple channel mod's overseeing the results.
But do we need over 1000 people try to qualify ? You know 90% of them people aren't pros.
who cares, its about having an open system where literally anyone from a particular region can enter and win if they are good enough. Thats what the gsl does, all you have to be is in masters to sign up for the league. People like to talk about infrastructure and USA or EU not having that. Well its shit moves like what blizzard and mlg are doing is whats causing that situation to be the same again and again, no improvement.
Since we dont have a central location, it absolutely will have to be done online. Since it can be done online alot more players can enter.
Once it reaches like the top 32, then its taken more seriously as in it will be a best of 5's till we have a top 16. Then the top 16 are flown to a centralized location for each region to compete.
i dont give a rats ass if average midmaster joe stance no chance of winning . this isnt about excluding people prematurely.
On April 12 2013 08:11 johnny123 wrote: this whole WCS is an abomination. Pay to enter, invites, no region locking, koreans leaving code S to play on NA, Foreigners will never go to korea again, whats the point?
Its just terrible, worst thought out system ever
How to run WCS properly instead of hiding behind excuses like "oh its the first tournament"LAWL ?
-Region lock, if you are a foreigner to a region, you must be living at or very near to said region. ( example southamericans playing on NA) -No invites, each region has qualifiers -To enter you must be mid-high level masters or higher -No payment to enter qualifier -over 1000 players per qualifier
3 regions USA/EUROPE/ASIA
Top 32 of each realm gets some sort of payment for reaching that far.
What we have now is sooooooooo terrible that WCS before was better . Right now what we going to have is 3 regions all won by koreans for a korean final. Whats the point of the regions anyway with this system?
So terrible, so horrible, so disgusting. Blizzard does not disappoint as this degree of bad is expected of them
Terrible, horrible, and disgusting.
lol @ the extent to which gamers will complain.
Nothing says fake internet outrage like the words, "Terrible, horrible, and disgusting"
On April 12 2013 08:24 will216 wrote: Over a 1000 Players ? That would take too much time, even GSL only do 500+ qualifiers. Invites had to happen because it's the first WCS. An Asia and USA region ? First, The USA is one country. What about Canada , South American and Mexico?Also, you can't put China and Taiwan all in the same region with Korea. That's just wrong.
its all online you dummy. 1000 players is nothing when its been done before. You use a website and input your results after the game while there are a couple channel mod's overseeing the results.
But do we need over 1000 people try to qualify ? You know 90% of them people aren't pros.
who cares, its about having an open system where literally anyone from a particular region can enter and win if they are good enough. Thats what the gsl does, all you have to be is in masters to sign up for the league.
Since we dont have a central location, it absolutely will have to be done online. Since it can be done online alot more players can enter.
Once it reaches like the top 32, then its taken more seriously as in it will be a best of 5's till we have a top 16. Then the top 16 are flown to a centralized location for each region to compete.
i dont give a rats ass if average midmaster joe stance no chance of winning . this isnt about excluding people prematurely.
Except this is the entertainment industry and not all players are equal. Invites are a necessary evil of the new system, since they have limited time to get this started. Also, they need to make it worth the time of the teams and established players to get behind this, otherwise they will just put their effort behind other things.
On April 12 2013 08:24 will216 wrote: Over a 1000 Players ? That would take too much time, even GSL only do 500+ qualifiers. Invites had to happen because it's the first WCS. An Asia and USA region ? First, The USA is one country. What about Canada , South American and Mexico?Also, you can't put China and Taiwan all in the same region with Korea. That's just wrong.
its all online you dummy. 1000 players is nothing when its been done before. You use a website and input your results after the game while there are a couple channel mod's overseeing the results.
But do we need over 1000 people try to qualify ? You know 90% of them people aren't pros.
who cares, its about having an open system where literally anyone from a particular region can enter and win if they are good enough. Thats what the gsl does, all you have to be is in masters to sign up for the league.
Since we dont have a central location, it absolutely will have to be done online. Since it can be done online alot more players can enter.
Once it reaches like the top 32, then its taken more seriously as in it will be a best of 5's till we have a top 16. Then the top 16 are flown to a centralized location for each region to compete.
i dont give a rats ass if average midmaster joe stance no chance of winning . this isnt about excluding people prematurely.
What part of "if not you're a pro, you're not going to win shit " you don't understand. You not going see a miracle and see Crank lose to Bronze level player. Give up you're pro starcraft dreams , bro .
On April 12 2013 08:11 johnny123 wrote: this whole WCS is an abomination. Pay to enter, invites, no region locking, koreans leaving code S to play on NA, Foreigners will never go to korea again, whats the point?
Its just terrible, worst thought out system ever
How to run WCS properly instead of hiding behind excuses like "oh its the first tournament"LAWL ?
-Region lock, if you are a foreigner to a region, you must be living at or very near to said region. ( example southamericans playing on NA) -No invites, each region has qualifiers -To enter you must be mid-high level masters or higher -No payment to enter qualifier -over 1000 players per qualifier
3 regions USA/EUROPE/ASIA
Top 32 of each realm gets some sort of payment for reaching that far.
What we have now is sooooooooo terrible that WCS before was better . Right now what we going to have is 3 regions all won by koreans for a korean final. Whats the point of the regions anyway with this system?
So terrible, so horrible, so disgusting. Blizzard does not disappoint as this degree of bad is expected of them
Terrible, horrible, and disgusting.
lol @ the extent to which gamers will complain.
back it up with facts about how this is not horrible instead of being an incontrol flavor of "this is incredible for the scene". "ITS SO GREATTTTTTTTTT".
On April 11 2013 15:46 BronzeKnee wrote: I don't mind the fee for playing.
But WCS is quickly becoming a joke. Catz pretty much hit the nail on head with his article. Blizzard isn't supporting or investing in the E-Sports cultural in anywhere except Korea.
I think it's the opposite of the bolded statement. See this post:
On April 10 2013 23:50 BeyondCtrL wrote: I think everyone is forgetting some facts here. Blizzard wants for these regional plays to be all offline, however, currently the infrastructure doesn't exist in NA or EU at the same level as KR. To be fair to all parties this year has online qualifiers, since you can't expect for players and entire teams to immediately get a new team house etc. established in NA and EU. Such endeavors take a lot of time, negotiation and money.
The WCS tournaments and qualifiers are intended to eventually become all offline like the GSL, and in 2014 I think we will see ESL and MLG begin to facilitate the much needed static infrastructure to do this. When the regional WCS become all offline the Koreans and Korean teams (only Incredible Miracle has so far dedicated players, all other teams are foreign owned) can consider permanently relocating to another region. Once this begins happening the level of play in regions should start improving further.
I honestly don't know how people can expect immediate results. I'm sure that Blizzard, more than anyone, is scared of alienating and losing the foreign scenes and fan bases. I mean, they practically state this. I'm also sure that this year's format is not their ideal setting but it was the best that could happen considering how many partners are involved, not to mention how some of them strongly disliked each other.
Step One: Introduce regional leagues that should one day be equal. Players and teams are, between regions, too disparate in skill and organization. Diluting is needed. How to achieve this?
Step Two: Woo Korean teams and infrastructure with money that is not completely centralized in Seoul. Get them accustomed to the prospect that relocating is feasible. If the initial region locks are too severe then regions will become too insulated and will actually hurt long term growth.
Thus moderate region locks are implemented with online qualifiers. Korean players and teams aren't so rich that they can buy a team house in some random city in EU or NA. On top of this there is no set location for offline events like GOM in Seoul. What incentive is there when you get a house in Poland and the tournament location is in France or Germany, or elsewhere? The Korean scene is possible because everything is centralized in one city.
Step Three: Build partnerships with MLG and ESL where eventually static studios are formed in set cities. Once this happens each region will have their Seoul, so to speak of. All team houses, players, and tournaments connected with WCS (or only WCS) can be centralized to one location in each region. Once this part forms:
Step Four: Regional WCS events become all offline. Select few Koreans might move (excluding foreign team Koreans) to new regions and transfer team houses. These few Korean teams aren't stupid, they know where their advantages come from and I highly doubt the coaches think that just because their players are Korean they are naturally better. They know that it's their methods, not nationality or race. At this stage it might become more reasonable that Korean (now formerly, in fact) teams would scout for talented players in the region (considering Visa and permanent living, and many other factors). Major's dream was to be able to play in a Kespa team and I think this sort of dream will become much more realistic for future and current players who have the ambition and dedication. Over time the formerly Korean teams will begin to initiate more and more regional players and provide them with the environment that has been lacking so severely. This is not to say the it wouldn't be possible without them but these teams have so many years of experience that it would help to jump start the process.
Another major advantage, already mentioned, is the centralized location. I think as the dust settles teams will start to realize what a boon this is. As EU and NA get those centralized locations it will become much more realistic to form team houses in the city where most of the money is. Right now tournaments outside of KR are all over the place, and if you do have a team house you will still spend a lot on travel expenses. Not to mention the stresses and inconveniences it imposes. Everyone is raging at how the NA scene is dead, but imagine this for a moment:
Late 2013/Early 2014, MLG establishes permanent SC2 WCS studio in LA/San Fran, all games are now offline. Since all of EG and TL have relocated it would mean that all the players would either have to go back to Korea or move to existing houses. This means all these great players and Coach Park would be under the same roof as, presumably, your favorite EG/TL non-Korean players. Imagine for a moment IdrA, Thorzain, HuK, Stephano living with all these great players and coach Park. Since EG and TL are foreign owned and now have a proper team house with a proper coach, they can begin to recruit tons of talent in the region. Though this scenario is imagined and the date overly optimistic, the probability of such a scenario becomes very possible with the transitional year that we have now.
Or what if ROOT creates a house and engages in negotiation with an eSF or Kespa team? The NA team can provide the facilities and the KR team can bring the knowledge and infrastructure. Both parties would benefit immensely where ROOT can learn, recruit and improve dramatically. Sure the Koreans might be leading the pack, but over time the mutual agreement transfers a lot of the knowledge and methods that were previously, for all intents and purposes, completely exclusive. Maybe the partnership lasts a year, or two? How much could the management of a foreign team learn over this time? When they part ways could they apply it later on and could they build stronger rosters and improve the competitiveness of their current ones?
Do these steps happen over night? No. I read CatZ's post and there is much to be agreed about in there, but at the same time I see so many flaws, especially in his argument about long term growth; which I find quite frankly short sighted. Long term is not a year, or two, or three. It's 10 years or more. It's not about ROOT, or TL, or any current team. It's about that future, in 2030, or 2040 where e-sports is (hopefully) a globally recognized form of competition with lots of funding and public support. Blizzard, though I'm not certain about this, might already acknowledge that the gap between Korean teams and full foreign teams might be too large, and that this generation is possibly lost (I'm being overly pessimistic here). But by inviting Korean teams and infrastructure they will build a stage for players in EU and NA many years down the road to join teams that are descended from Korean team houses and all the benefits that entail to these future careers.
Ah, a rational post... What thread is it from?
Imho most people (including pro's) really only have looked at the season 1 mess, base all their opinions on that - and then some want to change the whole system, providing ideas so little thought out that will make even Season 1 planning look OK.
On April 12 2013 08:11 johnny123 wrote: this whole WCS is an abomination. Pay to enter, invites, no region locking, koreans leaving code S to play on NA, Foreigners will never go to korea again, whats the point?
Its just terrible, worst thought out system ever
How to run WCS properly instead of hiding behind excuses like "oh its the first tournament"LAWL ?
-Region lock, if you are a foreigner to a region, you must be living at or very near to said region. ( example southamericans playing on NA) -No invites, each region has qualifiers -To enter you must be mid-high level masters or higher -No payment to enter qualifier -over 1000 players per qualifier
3 regions USA/EUROPE/ASIA
Top 32 of each realm gets some sort of payment for reaching that far.
What we have now is sooooooooo terrible that WCS before was better . Right now what we going to have is 3 regions all won by koreans for a korean final. Whats the point of the regions anyway with this system?
So terrible, so horrible, so disgusting. Blizzard does not disappoint as this degree of bad is expected of them
Terrible, horrible, and disgusting.
lol @ the extent to which gamers will complain.
back it up with facts about how this is not horrible instead of being an incontrol flavor of "this is incredible for the scene". "ITS SO GREATTTTTTTTTT".
Most of us don't argue with fools. Personally, I just mock them.
On April 12 2013 08:24 will216 wrote: Over a 1000 Players ? That would take too much time, even GSL only do 500+ qualifiers. Invites had to happen because it's the first WCS. An Asia and USA region ? First, The USA is one country. What about Canada , South American and Mexico?Also, you can't put China and Taiwan all in the same region with Korea. That's just wrong.
its all online you dummy. 1000 players is nothing when its been done before. You use a website and input your results after the game while there are a couple channel mod's overseeing the results.
But do we need over 1000 people try to qualify ? You know 90% of them people aren't pros.
who cares, its about having an open system where literally anyone from a particular region can enter and win if they are good enough. Thats what the gsl does, all you have to be is in masters to sign up for the league.
Since we dont have a central location, it absolutely will have to be done online. Since it can be done online alot more players can enter.
Once it reaches like the top 32, then its taken more seriously as in it will be a best of 5's till we have a top 16. Then the top 16 are flown to a centralized location for each region to compete.
i dont give a rats ass if average midmaster joe stance no chance of winning . this isnt about excluding people prematurely.
What part of "if not you're a pro, you're not going to win shit " you don't understand. You not going see a miracle and see Crank lose to Bronze level player. Give up you're pro starcraft dreams , bro .
Congrats, i hope you are happy with where the NA pro scene is right now, cause there isnt going to be another no-name rise the ranks with this sort of scene fostering.
You blizzard fanboys that are literally yes men disgust me. Ignorance at its best
On April 12 2013 08:11 johnny123 wrote: this whole WCS is an abomination. Pay to enter, invites, no region locking, koreans leaving code S to play on NA, Foreigners will never go to korea again, whats the point?
Its just terrible, worst thought out system ever
How to run WCS properly instead of hiding behind excuses like "oh its the first tournament"LAWL ?
-Region lock, if you are a foreigner to a region, you must be living at or very near to said region. ( example southamericans playing on NA) -No invites, each region has qualifiers -To enter you must be mid-high level masters or higher -No payment to enter qualifier -over 1000 players per qualifier
3 regions USA/EUROPE/ASIA
Top 32 of each realm gets some sort of payment for reaching that far.
What we have now is sooooooooo terrible that WCS before was better . Right now what we going to have is 3 regions all won by koreans for a korean final. Whats the point of the regions anyway with this system?
So terrible, so horrible, so disgusting. Blizzard does not disappoint as this degree of bad is expected of them
Agreed, what we need here is to have USA as a region.
On April 12 2013 08:24 will216 wrote: Over a 1000 Players ? That would take too much time, even GSL only do 500+ qualifiers. Invites had to happen because it's the first WCS. An Asia and USA region ? First, The USA is one country. What about Canada , South American and Mexico?Also, you can't put China and Taiwan all in the same region with Korea. That's just wrong.
its all online you dummy. 1000 players is nothing when its been done before. You use a website and input your results after the game while there are a couple channel mod's overseeing the results.
But do we need over 1000 people try to qualify ? You know 90% of them people aren't pros.
who cares, its about having an open system where literally anyone from a particular region can enter and win if they are good enough. Thats what the gsl does, all you have to be is in masters to sign up for the league.
Since we dont have a central location, it absolutely will have to be done online. Since it can be done online alot more players can enter.
Once it reaches like the top 32, then its taken more seriously as in it will be a best of 5's till we have a top 16. Then the top 16 are flown to a centralized location for each region to compete.
i dont give a rats ass if average midmaster joe stance no chance of winning . this isnt about excluding people prematurely.
What part of "if not you're a pro, you're not going to win shit " you don't understand. You not going see a miracle and see Crank lose to Bronze level player. Give up you're pro starcraft dreams , bro .
Congrats, i hope you are happy with where the NA pro scene is right now, cause there isnt going to be another no-name rise the ranks with this sort of scene fostering.
You blizzard fanboys that are literally yes men disgust me. Ignorance at its best
Nothing says fake internet outrage like the words, "Terrible, horrible, and disgusting"
On April 12 2013 08:24 will216 wrote: Over a 1000 Players ? That would take too much time, even GSL only do 500+ qualifiers. Invites had to happen because it's the first WCS. An Asia and USA region ? First, The USA is one country. What about Canada , South American and Mexico?Also, you can't put China and Taiwan all in the same region with Korea. That's just wrong.
its all online you dummy. 1000 players is nothing when its been done before. You use a website and input your results after the game while there are a couple channel mod's overseeing the results.
But do we need over 1000 people try to qualify ? You know 90% of them people aren't pros.
who cares, its about having an open system where literally anyone from a particular region can enter and win if they are good enough. Thats what the gsl does, all you have to be is in masters to sign up for the league.
Since we dont have a central location, it absolutely will have to be done online. Since it can be done online alot more players can enter.
Once it reaches like the top 32, then its taken more seriously as in it will be a best of 5's till we have a top 16. Then the top 16 are flown to a centralized location for each region to compete.
i dont give a rats ass if average midmaster joe stance no chance of winning . this isnt about excluding people prematurely.
What part of "if not you're a pro, you're not going to win shit " you don't understand. You not going see a miracle and see Crank lose to Bronze level player. Give up you're pro starcraft dreams , bro .
Congrats, i hope you are happy with where the NA pro scene is right now, cause there isnt going to be another no-name rise the ranks with this sort of scene fostering.
You blizzard fanboys that are literally yes men disgust me. Ignorance at its best
Nothing says fake internet outrage like the words, "Terrible, horrible, and disgusting"
You are right , lets call it a GREAT SYSTEM.
We have taeja leaving GSL to play on NA if he qualifies We have foreigners that wont go back to korea because there is zero point to. We going to have koreans win a USA region . Imagin the artciles on IGN.com when the results are posted. Koreans win USA qualifiers.
USA final event , 12 koreans, 4 NA players at best.
Disgusting is exactly how i would describe this WCS. Its not that anything is wrong with koreans winning, just dont come pretending WCS is any different from any other tournament out there. Its the same as MLG /DREAMHACK ETC. Just blizzard backed. Same
On April 12 2013 08:11 johnny123 wrote: this whole WCS is an abomination. Pay to enter, invites, no region locking, koreans leaving code S to play on NA, Foreigners will never go to korea again, whats the point?
Its just terrible, worst thought out system ever
How to run WCS properly instead of hiding behind excuses like "oh its the first tournament"LAWL ?
-Region lock, if you are a foreigner to a region, you must be living at or very near to said region. ( example southamericans playing on NA) -No invites, each region has qualifiers -To enter you must be mid-high level masters or higher -No payment to enter qualifier -over 1000 players per qualifier
3 regions USA/EUROPE/ASIA
Top 32 of each realm gets some sort of payment for reaching that far.
What we have now is sooooooooo terrible that WCS before was better . Right now what we going to have is 3 regions all won by koreans for a korean final. Whats the point of the regions anyway with this system?
So terrible, so horrible, so disgusting. Blizzard does not disappoint as this degree of bad is expected of them
Terrible, horrible, and disgusting.
lol @ the extent to which gamers will complain.
Nothing says fake internet outrage like the words, "Terrible, horrible, and disgusting"
At least he didn't say anything along the lines of "moral outrage."
On April 12 2013 08:24 will216 wrote: Over a 1000 Players ? That would take too much time, even GSL only do 500+ qualifiers. Invites had to happen because it's the first WCS. An Asia and USA region ? First, The USA is one country. What about Canada , South American and Mexico?Also, you can't put China and Taiwan all in the same region with Korea. That's just wrong.
its all online you dummy. 1000 players is nothing when its been done before. You use a website and input your results after the game while there are a couple channel mod's overseeing the results.
But do we need over 1000 people try to qualify ? You know 90% of them people aren't pros.
who cares, its about having an open system where literally anyone from a particular region can enter and win if they are good enough. Thats what the gsl does, all you have to be is in masters to sign up for the league.
Since we dont have a central location, it absolutely will have to be done online. Since it can be done online alot more players can enter.
Once it reaches like the top 32, then its taken more seriously as in it will be a best of 5's till we have a top 16. Then the top 16 are flown to a centralized location for each region to compete.
i dont give a rats ass if average midmaster joe stance no chance of winning . this isnt about excluding people prematurely.
What part of "if not you're a pro, you're not going to win shit " you don't understand. You not going see a miracle and see Crank lose to Bronze level player. Give up you're pro starcraft dreams , bro .
Congrats, i hope you are happy with where the NA pro scene is right now, cause there isnt going to be another no-name rise the ranks with this sort of scene fostering.
You blizzard fanboys that are literally yes men disgust me. Ignorance at its best
I get that the current situation in US WCS is pretty lousy for American players and I think it's actually a rather shitty move by TL, EG, Axiom et al to act like locusts on the US WCS. But I really don't buy this argument. Besides the Premier league, there will be the Challenger league where new American players will have a chance to show themselves every season. In a way it's very much like the open bracket at MLG. Getting good results in the challenger division (like Scarlett did in an open bracket) will get you instantly noticed. You don't have to be in the Premier League to "shine".
I also have to say that I think people tend to forget just how ignored WCS US was last year. It was mainly used as yet another excuse for mocking progamers outside of Korea. It's a bit hard to reconcile that with the reverence it's receiving at the moment.
*Locust-players. I rather like that. Swarm in, pick everything clean, swarm out.
WCS 2012: "Remember guys, WCS is a grassroots tournament for you. Make sure you take part in the qualifiers next year, no matter what your ladder rank is. And maybe next year we will see you on this stage."
WCS 2013: "The participation fee is required to have those filthy, trolling gold league players out of the tournament. I mean, come on, 20 dollars is nothing if you are serious about the game!" (exaggerated)
On April 12 2013 09:14 SinCitta wrote: WCS 2012: "Remember guys, WCS is a grassroots tournament for you. Make sure you take part in the qualifiers next year, no matter what your ladder rank is. And maybe next year we will see you on this stage."
WCS 2013: "The participation fee is required to have those filthy, trolling gold league players out of the tournament. I mean, come on, 20 dollars is nothing if you are serious about the game!" (exaggerated)
On April 12 2013 09:14 SinCitta wrote: WCS 2012: "Remember guys, WCS is a grassroots tournament for you. Make sure you take part in the qualifiers next year, no matter what your ladder rank is. And maybe next year we will see you on this stage."
WCS 2013: "The participation fee is required to have those filthy, trolling gold league players out of the tournament. I mean, come on, 20 dollars is nothing if you are serious about the game!" (exaggerated)
The entry fee was waived.
Ah, fine then. Shouldn't wait all day to make my stupid posts.
Wait it's 512 guys max, but open and free, so how do they select people? I don't think it's mentioned. Most logical would be Invitee, GM then ladder points but I don't know...
Anyway, I'm bronze league (should be Silver) and I'm going to enter, because why not?
You can't read or something ? " 3. Masters league players with at least 200 points "
In fact I can read, especially the line right after the one you posted, which says "After these players have been sorted, anyone will be able to sign up for the Code A qualifiers for a total number of 576 players.".
Hope all the pro/semi pro players that want to compete are on the ball.
EDIT:
Errr, 42 teams? This interface makes no sense to me.
Second Edit:
Ok, so 10 minutes in, 70 teams. Still going pretty quick, and of those 70 players I only recognize one or two. That's my last edit though, glhf to all who enter!
Does anyone know if any Kespa players will enter the NA tournament and if not, why not?
There are a bunch of great Kespa players currently not in GSL. I guess they would rather have a small chance at getting into OSL than a big chance of playing in WCS NA.
On April 13 2013 07:14 Kimi2108 wrote: Does anyone know if any Kespa players will enter the NA tournament and if not, why not?
There are a bunch of great Kespa players currently not in GSL. I guess they would rather have a small chance at getting into OSL than a big chance of playing in WCS NA.
I'm not sure if they are allowed to go abroad with out kespas permission; that could be a factor. Also, a primary reason kespa teams/players do so well is because they have A and B-teamers who practice with one another, so if people are practicing for NA or EU (even the lesser known) then it could have an adverse impact. Maybe they just don't want to pay for a flight over or maybe we will see some...we'll know soon enough
In the thisisgame article no kespa players were mentioned.
No they have to commit to one region for the first season, then they can switch afterwards. For instance, either they drop out of Code S/a and then go into the qualifiers or they continue with Code S/A and skip the first season qualifiers. It is my understanding though that they can compete in the 2nd season qualifiers for NA/EU if they commit to switching regions after the first season.
On April 13 2013 09:41 larse wrote: Is it possible that Korean pros just give NA/EU qualifiers a shot in Season 1 but just don't show up later?
Because they are allowed to play in NA/EU qualifiers while staying in Code A/S at the same time, they may just give it a shot.
And then later on when their Code S/A games go well, they may not show up in NA/EU leagues. Is it possible?
Those who are in GSL were allowed to pick another region for season 2, but have to play in the qualifiers for that region (hence MC in code S and EU qualifiers) AND are locked into the 2nd region for the rest of the year (season 3 as well).
Sign up soon, if you want in...less than 100 open spots left!
Axiom seems to be on board - guess we wont be seeing them in GSTL next season.
No obvious EG-TL signups so i suspect they will focus on proleague - and i hope blizzard finds a way to compensate them since they screwed EG-TL players out of CodeA qualifiers with such misleading info.
On April 13 2013 09:45 Elairec wrote: No they have to commit to one region for the first season, then they can switch afterwards. For instance, either they drop out of Code S/a and then go into the qualifiers or they continue with Code S/A and skip the first season qualifiers. It is my understanding though that they can compete in the 2nd season qualifiers for NA/EU if they commit to switching regions after the first season.
Not exactly.
Because you can't qualify and play in Code S in the same season and you have to go through Code A first, they gave players who were in Code S in GSL the option to forfeit their spots at the end of the season, while playing in the qualifiers for NA or EU now.
The way it works, Taeja plays in the NA qualifiers, while playing in Code S in the GSL. He qualifies for Code A/NA, plays in Code A/NA and Code S GSL at the same time. At the end of this season, regardless of his results in Code A/NA and Code S/KR, he is out of the GSL for good. If he has managed to qualify for Code S/NA through his Code A matches, he plays in Code S/NA next season. If not, he continues in Code A/NA.
Players in Code A forfeit their spots immediately, and play in the qualifiers for Code A/NA or EU. If they qualify, they play in Code A NA/EU this season. If they manage to make it into Code S, they play in Code S NA/EU next season.
Wait, something is wrong here. This is the qualifier for the 8 spots in season 1 of NA Premiere, not Code A, right? How can Hyun play in this, when he's still in the GSL? Is he forfeiting his Code S matches?
On April 14 2013 00:27 sitromit wrote: Wait, something is wrong here. This is the qualifier for the 8 spots in season 1 of NA Premiere, not Code A, right? How can Hyun play in this, when he's still in the GSL? Is he forfeiting his Code S matches?
I noticed this as well.. hmm.. I can't fathom forfeiting my spot in code S.. maybe i'm just weird
On April 14 2013 00:05 theacox wrote: Only problem i see is that if we have Axeltoss + Axslav casting premier league view counts are going to be low.
I would expect day9 being in cali maybe cast with catsPJS ? I mean even so that is a ton of games for axslav and axeltoss to cast. Course casting would mess up the daily for day9....
On April 14 2013 00:27 sitromit wrote: Wait, something is wrong here. This is the qualifier for the 8 spots in season 1 of NA Premiere, not Code A, right? How can Hyun play in this, when he's still in the GSL? Is he forfeiting his Code S matches?
Good point. But also remember that anyone can use any name, so while someone is signed up with the team name hyun, it may not actually be hyun.
I wonder how hard it will be for the Koreans to play a tournament which goes from 2:00 AM KST until noon KST. That's going to be very hard on one's sleep schedule. EG-TL has a match earlier that day, so at best players would be able to get a power nap in the afternoon/early evening before an all-nighter.
I don't understand why anyone is getting upset over less than 20 dollars. It's not a lot of money, if you have a shot at getting through I imagine either you or your team can spare the money, and it keeps the amount of no-shows low. And so what if they keep the money? It's not like they'll be swimming in cash after this anyway.
On April 11 2013 15:41 dream-_- wrote: The entry fee should be encouraged rather than scorned. The people entering these tourneys should be at least serious enough to shell out $20, and it brings money into our community.
On April 14 2013 00:57 Zealously wrote: I don't understand why anyone is getting upset over less than 20 dollars. It's not a lot of money, if you have a shot at getting through I imagine either you or your team can spare the money, and it keeps the amount of no-shows low. And so what if they keep the money? It's not like they'll be swimming in cash after this anyway.
1. The entry fee was removed. 2. The better question is why does NA have to pay to play, and no one else, when all the prizes are the same.
Someone at Blizzard or MLG saw this as a problem and fixed it. End of story, no entry fee.
The objective of WCS is to encourage more people to be interested in SC2, not put up barriers. An entry fee or league requirement for a tournament are barriers, even though there are valid reasons for them. Case and point, GSL has been running one of the best tournaments around and are the WCS KR; no entry fee and no league requirement. Although they do have a priority if things fill up (which I hope MLG uses, but they have only said it is first come first serve, after reserves). http://www.gomtv.net/forum/view.gom?topicid=300190&cid=0&kind=8
On April 14 2013 00:55 Branman wrote: I wonder how hard it will be for the Koreans to play a tournament which goes from 2:00 AM KST until noon KST. That's going to be very hard on one's sleep schedule. EG-TL has a match earlier that day, so at best players would be able to get a power nap in the afternoon/early evening before an all-nighter.
Another reason why i suspect EG-TL to pull most of their players from WCS NA after being forced into this rush-decision. Coach Park, the rumoured proleague entry fee, korean house... quite a big investment to throw away.
On April 14 2013 00:55 Branman wrote: I wonder how hard it will be for the Koreans to play a tournament which goes from 2:00 AM KST until noon KST. That's going to be very hard on one's sleep schedule. EG-TL has a match earlier that day, so at best players would be able to get a power nap in the afternoon/early evening before an all-nighter.
Another reason why i suspect EG-TL to pull most of their players from WCS NA after being forced into this rush-decision. Coach Park, the rumoured proleague entry fee, korean house... quite a big investment to throw away.
On April 14 2013 00:55 Branman wrote: I wonder how hard it will be for the Koreans to play a tournament which goes from 2:00 AM KST until noon KST. That's going to be very hard on one's sleep schedule. EG-TL has a match earlier that day, so at best players would be able to get a power nap in the afternoon/early evening before an all-nighter.
Another reason why i suspect EG-TL to pull most of their players from WCS NA after being forced into this rush-decision. Coach Park, the rumoured proleague entry fee, korean house... quite a big investment to throw away.
Yeah, I doubt they'd abandon that. They know more than us, so maybe they are sure that in 2013 there will not be as much offline games involved that they could not manage both PL and WCS NA. Or they'll forfeit their WCS NA spots once they'd be required to be present more often than a weekend end per season.
Signed up even though I'm diamond and bad. But the signup process is ridiculous. And I'm not even sure if I signed up. That whole creating a team and then registering your team in the tournament rather than just your bnet account is confusing and stupid. So, for all I know, I registered a "team" with no active players or something. I'm at work, so I can't really look into it much to make sure I did it right, but it's convoluted as hell as far as I'm concerned.
GJ MLG for removing the fee. Now it will be an actual qualifier and we might see some new faces making some upsets hopefully. Ofc if they have the luck to dodge the koreans that is :D.
MLG = money grabbers who only care about profit and NOTHING about evolvement of grassroots SC2. How old were Leenock and Life when they made their breakthrough?
You limit by a rank, and I'd say Masters - there will be several uncut diamonds who may display good skill and wind up on a team - remember Scarlett, unknown> wins Playhem IPL tournament > causes a stir > on Acer. Or the rise and rise of Snute?
We HAVE to evolve grassroots in all regions, otherwise there is no point in huge tournaments like a WCS as eventually the scene will die with no new players coming through.
On April 11 2013 02:33 pStar wrote: $18.75 to enter?
What a fucking joke.
It would be worst if they let everyone sign up, free of charge. This keeps it to players who are willing to put down $20 to try, rather than any ass-hole who can figure out how to sign up to play with their gold league account.
I agree with this. It's less likely for not-so-serious gamers to take the place of those who *need* a spot, yet at the same time it's still open to anyone who wants to make a contribution to a top tier player
MLG made a large mistake by not including DeMuslim. Apparently they messed-up between the EU and NA offices (EU knowing he's living in NA, whereas the NA office assumed he'd play in Europe. Then, according to DeMuslim, MLG started to make all sorts of excuses not to include him. - Not very professional MLG, I only follow SC2 sideways and I knew that DeMuslim is mostly in the US.
...about the $18.75 entry fee, if MLG is preventing "trollers": MLG could always make players pay a larger deposit of which a large percentage will be returned once tourney is done. For example, a $50 deposit with $40 refunded at end of tourney. Players forfeit deposit for no-show. The big deposit will ensure players attend the tourney that they signed up for.
But imo, I don't think MLG is making money off the entry fee but is more to prevent lesser talent from taking up spots. Spectators generally want to see highest (as possible) talent in a tourney. It doesn't seem that unreasonable for serious, dedicated players to see how they fare against others in a tourney. There are other hobbies with entry fees as much or higher and without much monetary prize (like radio control car racing).
edit: someone mention having a cut-off in ranking which is very good. This would do very nicely.
Don't feel bad either, it is not an easy site to use and you are not alone in having troubles with it. On par with ESL site, EU folks know what that means.
One thing I don't like about how MLG and ESL are doing these qualifiers is the all or nothing parts, particularly with ESL.
For example, today they had brackets starting at 1024 and only top 2 players got in. While this is a way to do things, but people who go out in ro4 and still won 8 matches in a row get nothing. Similar to how MLG is doing things, however it is a bit easier since it is all one qualifier where 8 people go through. Although these are both quite different from how GSL does things with several smaller brackets.
Ie. In the MLG and ESL qualifiers you could win 6+ matches and still get knocked out, but in GSL you would be in a match before. Furthermore, you wouldn't have to wait on as many people to be able to play the next match.
In other words, I think MLG and ESL should really consider how GSL does their qualifiers as well.
MLG format - One qualifier, Bo3 double elim, 512 players with 8 advancing. ESL format - Four qualifiers, Bo1 to ro128 then Bo3 single elim, 1024 players each with 2 advancing. GSL format - One qualifier, Bo3 with multiple single elim group brackets, 16 players each group, as many groups as needed, top player in each group advances. As jmbthirteen points out, the code A (challenger division) qualifiers could still be different, so just assume they might do the same format for the sake of this question/poll. They have not released how the challenger division qualifiers will be done!
Poll: Which qualifer format do you like the most?
GSL (33)
45%
ESL (22)
30%
MLG (18)
25%
73 total votes
Your vote: Which qualifer format do you like the most?
PS. I am NOT asking you to come up with your own format..these are the formats they have used. Of these, which would you prefer for code A qualifiers in NA/EU.
On April 15 2013 09:06 Prplppleatr wrote: One thing I don't like about how MLG and ESL are doing these qualifiers is the all or nothing parts, particularly with ESL.
For example, today they had brackets starting at 1024 and only top 2 players got in. While this is a way to do things, but people who go out in ro4 and still won 8 matches in a row get nothing. Similar to how MLG is doing things, however it is a bit easier since it is all one qualifier where 8 people go through. Although these are both quite different from how GSL does things with several smaller brackets.
Ie. In the MLG and ESL qualifiers you could win 6+ matches and still get knocked out, but in GSL you would be in a match before. Furthermore, you wouldn't have to wait on as many people to be able to play the next match.
In other words, I think MLG and ESL should really consider how GSL does their qualifiers as well.
Poll: Which qualifer format do you like the most?
GSL (33)
45%
ESL (22)
30%
MLG (18)
25%
73 total votes
Your vote: Which qualifer format do you like the most?
On April 15 2013 09:06 Prplppleatr wrote: One thing I don't like about how MLG and ESL are doing these qualifiers is the all or nothing parts, particularly with ESL.
For example, today they had brackets starting at 1024 and only top 2 players got in. While this is a way to do things, but people who go out in ro4 and still won 8 matches in a row get nothing. Similar to how MLG is doing things, however it is a bit easier since it is all one qualifier where 8 people go through. Although these are both quite different from how GSL does things with several smaller brackets.
Ie. In the MLG and ESL qualifiers you could win 6+ matches and still get knocked out, but in GSL you would be in a match before. Furthermore, you wouldn't have to wait on as many people to be able to play the next match.
In other words, I think MLG and ESL should really consider how GSL does their qualifiers as well.
Poll: Which qualifer format do you like the most?
GSL (33)
45%
ESL (22)
30%
MLG (18)
25%
73 total votes
Your vote: Which qualifer format do you like the most?
thing is though, with GSL, you only qualify for Code A, while with the IEM and MLG ones, you qualify right to Code S. It should be more difficult.
True, this is under the assumption they do the Code A qualifers the same as these Code S qualifiers! So could be a worthless question, but at this point they haven't released any information on those qualifiers, so just voice your opinion assuming that it would be the same!
On April 15 2013 09:18 DifuntO wrote: It's a one time thing guys.We just have to deal with it.Next season is going to be similar to Code A qualifiers.
That's what i'm asking about, how would you like the NA/EU qualifiers for code A be done...we don't know how they are going to do the code A qualifiers yet.
So, assuming they might do the same format premier division qualifers, which of the 3 types of qualifier formats would you prefer to have them use.
On April 15 2013 09:06 Prplppleatr wrote: One thing I don't like about how MLG and ESL are doing these qualifiers is the all or nothing parts, particularly with ESL.
For example, today they had brackets starting at 1024 and only top 2 players got in. While this is a way to do things, but people who go out in ro4 and still won 8 matches in a row get nothing. Similar to how MLG is doing things, however it is a bit easier since it is all one qualifier where 8 people go through. Although these are both quite different from how GSL does things with several smaller brackets.
Ie. In the MLG and ESL qualifiers you could win 6+ matches and still get knocked out, but in GSL you would be in a match before. Furthermore, you wouldn't have to wait on as many people to be able to play the next match.
In other words, I think MLG and ESL should really consider how GSL does their qualifiers as well.
MLG format - One qualifier, Bo3 double elim, 512 players with 8 advancing. ESL format - Four qualifiers, Bo1 to ro128 then Bo3 single elim, 1024 players each with 2 advancing. GSL format - One qualifier, Bo3 with multiple single elim group brackets, 16 players each group, as many groups as needed, top player in each group advances. As jmbthirteen points out, the code A (challenger division) qualifiers could still be different, so just assume they are the same, for the sake of this question/poll. They have not released how the challenger division qualifiers will be done!
Poll: Which qualifer format do you like the most?
GSL (33)
45%
ESL (22)
30%
MLG (18)
25%
73 total votes
Your vote: Which qualifer format do you like the most?
The ESL format is actually more fair. If you are a top 8 player it's possible to get knocked out early to another top 8 or 16 player if u happen to meet them early in the qualifier. This way you get 4 tries so it's unlikely that you would get so unlucky. With the MLG format if 1 side of the bracket has most of the best players they can screwed out of a position.
That being said I most prefer the formats used in TSL and TLS, where there are multiple qualifiers with the top 2 advancing from each but the top 3-32 get some points. Then after the 6th qualifer, the top 12 in points get in along with the 12 that finished top 2. This means 24 qualified players which is obviously not the same as in this case but you get the idea (and that's a whole other topic because I think only 8 qualified vs 24 invites is ridiculous).
The GSL one is pretty terrible imho. Depends too much in which group you are.
ESL and MLG aren't too different imho. MLG is double elimination, ESL is something like quadruple elimination (except you have to start from the beginning and get only improved seeds). The difference is just having to start over and having four lives vs. bracket luck, two lives, daily form.
Something really different would be the TSL qualifier system with points. ESL/MLG system gets you winners (+runner/ups), TSL system gets you consistent top finishers. It depends on which players you want.
On April 14 2013 05:46 Xorphene wrote: Entrance fee waived, lol.
"It's all about the money, money, money".
MLG = money grabbers who only care about profit and NOTHING about evolvement of grassroots SC2. How old were Leenock and Life when they made their breakthrough?
You limit by a rank, and I'd say Masters - there will be several uncut diamonds who may display good skill and wind up on a team - remember Scarlett, unknown> wins Playhem IPL tournament > causes a stir > on Acer. Or the rise and rise of Snute?
We HAVE to evolve grassroots in all regions, otherwise there is no point in huge tournaments like a WCS as eventually the scene will die with no new players coming through.
How about you actually look at MLG's history before you start spouting such idiocy? They've operated at a loss for close to a decade, they've supported dozens of games since inception (most that you probably never cared about "evolving"), they've hosted tournaments when 10k viewers was a pipe dream, let alone 100k or 1M.
But no, they mention entry fees once (and then get rid of them), and suddenly they only care about profit.
MLG has done more for growing Esports than almost every other organization out there. And if you looked outside your tiny hate bubble, that should be blatantly obvious.
On April 15 2013 09:06 Prplppleatr wrote: One thing I don't like about how MLG and ESL are doing these qualifiers is the all or nothing parts, particularly with ESL.
For example, today they had brackets starting at 1024 and only top 2 players got in. While this is a way to do things, but people who go out in ro4 and still won 8 matches in a row get nothing. Similar to how MLG is doing things, however it is a bit easier since it is all one qualifier where 8 people go through. Although these are both quite different from how GSL does things with several smaller brackets.
Ie. In the MLG and ESL qualifiers you could win 6+ matches and still get knocked out, but in GSL you would be in a match before. Furthermore, you wouldn't have to wait on as many people to be able to play the next match.
In other words, I think MLG and ESL should really consider how GSL does their qualifiers as well.
MLG format - One qualifier, Bo3 double elim, 512 players with 8 advancing. ESL format - Four qualifiers, Bo1 to ro128 then Bo3 single elim, 1024 players each with 2 advancing. GSL format - One qualifier, Bo3 with multiple single elim group brackets, 16 players each group, as many groups as needed, top player in each group advances. As jmbthirteen points out, the code A (challenger division) qualifiers could still be different, so just assume they are the same, for the sake of this question/poll. They have not released how the challenger division qualifiers will be done!
Poll: Which qualifer format do you like the most?
GSL (33)
45%
ESL (22)
30%
MLG (18)
25%
73 total votes
Your vote: Which qualifer format do you like the most?
The ESL format is actually more fair. If you are a top 8 player it's possible to get knocked out early to another top 8 or 16 player if u happen to meet them early in the qualifier. This way you get 4 tries so it's unlikely that you would get so unlucky. With the MLG format if 1 side of the bracket has most of the best players they can screwed out of a position.
That being said I most prefer the formats used in TSL and TLS, where there are multiple qualifiers with the top 2 advancing from each but the top 3-32 get some points. Then after the 6th qualifer, the top 12 in points get in along with the 12 that finished top 2. This means 24 qualified players which is obviously not the same as in this case but you get the idea (and that's a whole other topic because I think only 8 qualified vs 24 invites is ridiculous).
Each qualifiers has it's good and bad...multiple chances with the ESL format is nice.
And I agree with the points portion, which is what I was getting at when saying players like bling, who won 8 or so matches, get nothing for their effort. (I wish this is more of how it was, but none of the 3 organization have taken this approach)
For these premier division qualifiers, these are the formats. Now, assuming that MLG and ESL have the potential or possibility to use the same format for the challenger division, which of the 3 formats would you prefer?? (question i am asking everyone, for you I assume ESL)
i think it would have been awesome if MLG kept the 20 dollar fee but distributed it 100% among the players
make it so on the first match its you vs someone else and each paid 20 dollars meaning theres a 40 dollar pot
if you win the match you get half of the pot for yourself and put the next 20 for the next matches pot
so next match each player has won 20 and spent 20 making them even and theres a 40 dollar pot. winner takes half of the pot for himself and puts the other 20 for the next rounds pot
what does this mean. simply put it means if you win your first match you are even on money and every single match after that you win an extra 20 dollars
so if you win 5 matches that would mean you would EARN 80 dollars from the tournament
if you win 10 matches you would earn 180 dollars from the tournament
with this system in place it would mean ONLY people who lose their first match actually lose money and everyone else either wins money or is even on money
damn that sounds like a great idea for a tournament. 20 dollars for enter and many noobs would play for fun while the pros actually earn money from it. and its easy to keep track everyone simply wins 20dollars X matches-1 won
ESL format is the nicest, since it mitigates bracket luck way more. Also the first Code S and Code A were based on spots from three huge open bracket GSL seasons.
Ro1024 is bit too much to keep doing every season for challenger qualifiers tho. Im thinking 8 simultaneous brackets of 128, winner gets the spot, 3 days - everyone gets 3 shots.
On April 15 2013 10:41 rename wrote: ESL format is the nicest, since it mitigates bracket luck way more. Also the first Code S and Code A were based on spots from three huge open bracket GSL seasons.
Ro1024 is bit too much to keep doing every season for challenger qualifiers tho. Im thinking 8 simultaneous brackets of 128, winner gets the spot, 3 days - everyone gets 3 shots.
Agreed. I would prefer the ESL format for NA, rather then 1024. It has a better chance of the best players getting through. Though MLG should have a losers bracket, correct?
I wonder how long this tournament will take if it ends up being 512 players, which it should. I know it's split over 2 days, but it's still a shitload of Bo3s for day 1. Also unless I'm mistaken it's starting midnight korean time? I think there will be a lot of upsets.
Seems a bit weird to have it double elimination to be honest, not like you'll have a chance to qualify anyway if you lose in the first 3 rounds because you would have to win 100 Bo3s to make it, and it will delay the tournament a lot. But will be an interesting tournament to follow anyway.
On April 15 2013 23:16 Teoyaomqui wrote: I wonder how long this tournament will take if it ends up being 512 players, which it should. I know it's split over 2 days, but it's still a shitload of Bo3s for day 1. Also unless I'm mistaken it's starting midnight korean time? I think there will be a lot of upsets.
Seems a bit weird to have it double elimination to be honest, not like you'll have a chance to qualify anyway if you lose in the first 3 rounds because you would have to win 100 Bo3s to make it, and it will delay the tournament a lot. But will be an interesting tournament to follow anyway.
I like EU system better it seems like they have 4 qualfiers and just take the top 2 from each.
On April 15 2013 23:16 Teoyaomqui wrote: I wonder how long this tournament will take if it ends up being 512 players, which it should. I know it's split over 2 days, but it's still a shitload of Bo3s for day 1. Also unless I'm mistaken it's starting midnight korean time? I think there will be a lot of upsets.
Seems a bit weird to have it double elimination to be honest, not like you'll have a chance to qualify anyway if you lose in the first 3 rounds because you would have to win 100 Bo3s to make it, and it will delay the tournament a lot. But will be an interesting tournament to follow anyway.
I like EU system better it seems like they have 4 qualfiers and just take the top 2 from each.
MLG has 5 days to figure it out a way to do it. After two days, the players will be such zombies. I kinda want to do the math of the minimum and maximum number of games that can be played by someone in these.
On April 11 2013 03:07 MLG_Adam wrote: If the qualifier was free to enter a huge % of the matches would be no shows. We want this qualifier to be taken seriously by those wishing to participate.
ESL had no problems. There was over 1500 signed in but only 1050 (+) could get into bracket!
Nice infographic. And it's another reminder of how little sense the GSL format makes when what we've effectively got now is qualifiers for another tournament. A tournament which 5 players qualify for. How exactly are they going to get 5 players from the GSL format? The top 4 players and then a playoff from the losing quarter finalists?
On April 16 2013 00:16 Jknighty wrote: Nice infographic. And it's another reminder of how little sense the GSL format makes when what we've effectively got now is qualifiers for another tournament. A tournament which 5 players qualify for. How exactly are they going to get 5 players from the GSL format? The top 4 players and then a playoff from the losing quarter finalists?
Yeah, probably a playoff for the quarterfinalists. For the region that 6th place qualifies you'd have to guess they do another "duel tournament" style group among the 4 as well. Just speculation here though.
On April 14 2013 05:46 Xorphene wrote: Entrance fee waived, lol.
"It's all about the money, money, money".
MLG = money grabbers who only care about profit and NOTHING about evolvement of grassroots SC2. How old were Leenock and Life when they made their breakthrough?
You limit by a rank, and I'd say Masters - there will be several uncut diamonds who may display good skill and wind up on a team - remember Scarlett, unknown> wins Playhem IPL tournament > causes a stir > on Acer. Or the rise and rise of Snute?
We HAVE to evolve grassroots in all regions, otherwise there is no point in huge tournaments like a WCS as eventually the scene will die with no new players coming through.
I've said this before, if people are trying to get a StarCraft 2 career going, and they live in NA, surely they're playing in the MLG online cups, and can just use the credits they've won from that to get in?
On April 14 2013 05:46 Xorphene wrote: Entrance fee waived, lol.
"It's all about the money, money, money".
MLG = money grabbers who only care about profit and NOTHING about evolvement of grassroots SC2. How old were Leenock and Life when they made their breakthrough?
You limit by a rank, and I'd say Masters - there will be several uncut diamonds who may display good skill and wind up on a team - remember Scarlett, unknown> wins Playhem IPL tournament > causes a stir > on Acer. Or the rise and rise of Snute?
We HAVE to evolve grassroots in all regions, otherwise there is no point in huge tournaments like a WCS as eventually the scene will die with no new players coming through.
I've said this before, if people are trying to get a StarCraft 2 career going, and they live in NA, surely they're playing in the MLG online cups, and can just use the credits they've won from that to get in?
From what I have read of the rules, no. WCS is its own even and MLG is handling the logistics. The open qualifier or an invite to the first season is the only way to get into the event.
On April 16 2013 00:16 Jknighty wrote: Nice infographic. And it's another reminder of how little sense the GSL format makes when what we've effectively got now is qualifiers for another tournament. A tournament which 5 players qualify for. How exactly are they going to get 5 players from the GSL format? The top 4 players and then a playoff from the losing quarter finalists?
Yeah, probably a playoff for the quarterfinalists. For the region that 6th place qualifies you'd have to guess they do another "duel tournament" style group among the 4 as well. Just speculation here though.
As I understand it those 5 are for the world finals, which is after 3 seasons of play. So they'll just take the top 5 by points same way GSL did for the GSL world cup thing way back for example.
On April 15 2013 23:16 Teoyaomqui wrote: I wonder how long this tournament will take if it ends up being 512 players, which it should. I know it's split over 2 days, but it's still a shitload of Bo3s for day 1. Also unless I'm mistaken it's starting midnight korean time? I think there will be a lot of upsets.
Seems a bit weird to have it double elimination to be honest, not like you'll have a chance to qualify anyway if you lose in the first 3 rounds because you would have to win 100 Bo3s to make it, and it will delay the tournament a lot. But will be an interesting tournament to follow anyway.
I like EU system better it seems like they have 4 qualfiers and just take the top 2 from each.
Yeah I also prefer the EU system. This one has a high degree of variance. And who knows how they'll do the seeding, that will have a huge impact. But it will be easier for NA players to make it with this system, with a little bit of bracket luck you might not have that many koreans in your bracket.
On April 15 2013 23:16 Teoyaomqui wrote: I wonder how long this tournament will take if it ends up being 512 players, which it should. I know it's split over 2 days, but it's still a shitload of Bo3s for day 1. Also unless I'm mistaken it's starting midnight korean time? I think there will be a lot of upsets.
Seems a bit weird to have it double elimination to be honest, not like you'll have a chance to qualify anyway if you lose in the first 3 rounds because you would have to win 100 Bo3s to make it, and it will delay the tournament a lot. But will be an interesting tournament to follow anyway.
I like EU system better it seems like they have 4 qualfiers and just take the top 2 from each.
Yeah I also prefer the EU system. This one has a high degree of variance. And who knows how they'll do the seeding, that will have a huge impact. But it will be easier for NA players to make it with this system, with a little bit of bracket luck you might not have that many koreans in your bracket.
I don't think there's as much of a difference in "bracket luck" between EU and NA as people in this thread are making it seem. Double elimination reduces the variance by a good amount and EU doesn't have that.
In response to the poll question, why not have a qualifier system somewhat like last year's qualifiers for the WCS. You could have some regional offline qualifiers (with prize money!?) giving something like 12 of the 16 spots, restricted to citizens of those regions. The other spots could be given out in open qualifiers.
So something like US 4 spots, Canada 3 spots, Mexico and Central America 3 spots, South America 2 spots, open qualifiers 4 spots. Maybe there could even be smaller local qualifiers into each of the regional qualifiers.
This would keep the regions "regional" but still allow people from other areas of the world to qualify in the region of their choice.
On April 15 2013 23:16 Teoyaomqui wrote: I wonder how long this tournament will take if it ends up being 512 players, which it should. I know it's split over 2 days, but it's still a shitload of Bo3s for day 1. Also unless I'm mistaken it's starting midnight korean time? I think there will be a lot of upsets.
Seems a bit weird to have it double elimination to be honest, not like you'll have a chance to qualify anyway if you lose in the first 3 rounds because you would have to win 100 Bo3s to make it, and it will delay the tournament a lot. But will be an interesting tournament to follow anyway.
I like EU system better it seems like they have 4 qualfiers and just take the top 2 from each.
MLG has 5 days to figure it out a way to do it. After two days, the players will be such zombies. I kinda want to do the math of the minimum and maximum number of games that can be played by someone in these.
If there are 512 in the draw, you have to win 7 matches to make it to the winner's bracket semifinals and be guaranteed a top 8 finish.
If you lose first round, you have to win 12 backdraw matches to make it to the loser's bracket semifinals and get a 5-8 spot.
So minimum number of matches is 7, maximum number of matches is 13.
On April 15 2013 23:16 Teoyaomqui wrote: I wonder how long this tournament will take if it ends up being 512 players, which it should. I know it's split over 2 days, but it's still a shitload of Bo3s for day 1. Also unless I'm mistaken it's starting midnight korean time? I think there will be a lot of upsets.
Seems a bit weird to have it double elimination to be honest, not like you'll have a chance to qualify anyway if you lose in the first 3 rounds because you would have to win 100 Bo3s to make it, and it will delay the tournament a lot. But will be an interesting tournament to follow anyway.
I like EU system better it seems like they have 4 qualfiers and just take the top 2 from each.
MLG has 5 days to figure it out a way to do it. After two days, the players will be such zombies. I kinda want to do the math of the minimum and maximum number of games that can be played by someone in these.
If there are 512 in the draw, you have to win 7 games to make it to the winner's bracket semifinals and be guaranteed a top 8 finish.
If you lose first round, you have to win 12 backdraw games to make it to the loser's bracket semifinals and get a 5-8 spot.
So minimum is 7, maximum is 13.
They are all best of three, so you would need to win two games to advance each time. So the minimum is 14 games? I guess that not to terrible.
On April 15 2013 23:16 Teoyaomqui wrote: I wonder how long this tournament will take if it ends up being 512 players, which it should. I know it's split over 2 days, but it's still a shitload of Bo3s for day 1. Also unless I'm mistaken it's starting midnight korean time? I think there will be a lot of upsets.
Seems a bit weird to have it double elimination to be honest, not like you'll have a chance to qualify anyway if you lose in the first 3 rounds because you would have to win 100 Bo3s to make it, and it will delay the tournament a lot. But will be an interesting tournament to follow anyway.
I like EU system better it seems like they have 4 qualfiers and just take the top 2 from each.
MLG has 5 days to figure it out a way to do it. After two days, the players will be such zombies. I kinda want to do the math of the minimum and maximum number of games that can be played by someone in these.
If there are 512 in the draw, you have to win 7 games to make it to the winner's bracket semifinals and be guaranteed a top 8 finish.
If you lose first round, you have to win 12 backdraw games to make it to the loser's bracket semifinals and get a 5-8 spot.
So minimum is 7, maximum is 13.
They are all best of three, so you would need to win two games to advance each time. So the minimum is 14 games? I guess that not to terrible.
Thanks for catching that. I meant matches, not games. Changed my post to reflect that. So yeah, the minimum is 14 games won. The maximum would be 25 games won (12 x 2 = 24 backdraw wins, plus losing your first match in the first round 2-1). The maximum number of games total would be 39 (losing first round 2-1 and winning all the backdraw matches 2-1).
On April 15 2013 23:16 Teoyaomqui wrote: I wonder how long this tournament will take if it ends up being 512 players, which it should. I know it's split over 2 days, but it's still a shitload of Bo3s for day 1. Also unless I'm mistaken it's starting midnight korean time? I think there will be a lot of upsets.
Seems a bit weird to have it double elimination to be honest, not like you'll have a chance to qualify anyway if you lose in the first 3 rounds because you would have to win 100 Bo3s to make it, and it will delay the tournament a lot. But will be an interesting tournament to follow anyway.
I like EU system better it seems like they have 4 qualfiers and just take the top 2 from each.
MLG has 5 days to figure it out a way to do it. After two days, the players will be such zombies. I kinda want to do the math of the minimum and maximum number of games that can be played by someone in these.
If there are 512 in the draw, you have to win 7 games to make it to the winner's bracket semifinals and be guaranteed a top 8 finish.
If you lose first round, you have to win 12 backdraw games to make it to the loser's bracket semifinals and get a 5-8 spot.
So minimum is 7, maximum is 13.
They are all best of three, so you would need to win two games to advance each time. So the minimum is 14 games? I guess that not to terrible.
Keep in mind you have to wait for the other BO3 to finish and in worse case scenarios all your opponents would play 3 long macro games ^^
I have a question : in the GSL Code S, the 4th of each group falls into Code A Ro48 while the third falls to Code A Ro32. Here, for WCS NA and also WCS EU, it seems the 3rd and 4th of each Premier Division group will fall to the first round of Challenger Division.
How comes when WCS is supposed to be the same format everywhere ? Does anybody have precisions on this (and I mean reliable please, not just guesses) ?
On April 16 2013 01:47 CoR wrote: 1 qualfier for main and 1 qualfier for challan ger ?
i rly like europe more with 4 qualifiers with top2 go to the premier etc -_- 1 is so rnd ... top8 -__-
But this is double elim, at least.
As someone posted before. EU is quad elimination bracket (if you manage to secure spot during check in in all 4 qualifiers). If you lose 4 times you are out of this season of qualifiers
For some reason, I'm really excited to watch the open qualifiers. Watching close games between people I've never heard of, who are playing their hearts out just seems very similar to NCAA sports. I've always preferred NCAA football to NFL- the level of competition is a bit lower, but those guys are really playing their hearts out, instead of just getting their paychecks.
Does anyone know if WCS season 1 will be available on Android devices? I'm using android micropcs with HDMI out to run Twitch on my TVs at home, but the last MLG was blocked on Android (which I hated, Sundance). Hopefully this will be available on Android, I can't wait to watch.
On April 16 2013 18:53 Bonkarooni wrote: I thought Hyun couldnt play in this season because of him being in code S, and he had to play in the code a qualifiers
True...he can only play in the challenger league qualifier to get into challenger because he can't get into premier this league
On April 16 2013 22:46 Crownlol wrote: Very important:
Does anyone know if WCS season 1 will be available on Android devices? I'm using android micropcs with HDMI out to run Twitch on my TVs at home, but the last MLG was blocked on Android (which I hated, Sundance). Hopefully this will be available on Android, I can't wait to watch.
Worst case scenario, download Firefox browser and install flash plugin. Instructions Bypass the app/block altogether.
Ok so i've been trying to sign up... and i get redirect to a "Create a team" WoL weid link (http://gamebattles.majorleaguegaming.com/pc/starcraft-ii-wings-of-liberty/teams/create?tournament_id=5389)
Am i doing something terribly wrong here or what ?
On April 17 2013 08:56 Beldox wrote: Ok so i've been trying to sign up... and i get redirect to a "Create a team" WoL weid link (http://gamebattles.majorleaguegaming.com/pc/starcraft-ii-wings-of-liberty/teams/create?tournament_id=5389)
Am i doing something terribly wrong here or what ?
You have to create a team to sign up - a team means nothing, it is basically a username for this specific tournament...so doesn't matter if you are or aren't on a team or really w.e you put.
If you have problem check the rules page for information (posted in OP)
On April 16 2013 01:30 Figgy wrote: I'm registered hell yeahs! Random master league protoss cheesing my way through a qualifier like a good Protoss should.
I registered with full intent on just 6 pooling, except vs terran. Standard game vs terran, which I'll prob lose anyway.
On April 16 2013 01:30 Figgy wrote: I'm registered hell yeahs! Random master league protoss cheesing my way through a qualifier like a good Protoss should.
I registered with full intent on just 6 pooling, except vs terran. Standard game vs terran, which I'll prob lose anyway.
Ya, the first rounds of the qualifier will be high standard gameplay, i can tell
On April 16 2013 01:30 Figgy wrote: I'm registered hell yeahs! Random master league protoss cheesing my way through a qualifier like a good Protoss should.
I registered with full intent on just 6 pooling, except vs terran. Standard game vs terran, which I'll prob lose anyway.
why? 6pool is stronger against terran than toss/zerg, however it turns into a freewin for the terran if he scouts in time.
To be fair, he asked that before that happened..and they are still doing the schedule I have, now they are just broadcasting some of the matches that are happening.
EPT![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/9/9a/2013WCSS1America.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rJ9Hpwe.png)
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