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On April 11 2013 05:32 Luzian wrote:
I am actually very satisfied with how everything turned out.
Just look at the current GSL where 4 of the 6 players already advancing to the RO16 are Kespa players. Many ESF players just can't keep up and vanish to Code B one by one. Letting the bad ESF players compete in Europe and especially NA (since the latter completely lacks even halfway decent pros besides maybe Major and Scarlett) gives us the opportunity to still watch and cheer for our old favorites with watchable quality of the games even on NA without being completely filled with wannabe pros who completely lack the mindset to ever come even close to the level of Kespa players.
Yes, I understand all the worries and complaining about the foreign scene having an even harder time due to this. But in all seriousness, why should hard working Koreans be treated in a severely unfair manner when it's the foreigner's fault that most of their pros do not even understand what being a professional gamer even means? Arising inequalities would hurt the still very small SC2 eSports scene much more.
And don't compare WCS to something completely different such as Olympia. WCS is in the end an individual tournament while the Olympia is a competition between countries and rather a cultural and traditional event.
Affirmative action is a good thing. There has to be a solution that give both sides legitimate chances to grow.
I'm also afraid of foreign fans getting angry at Koreans... I mean, it'd take a pretty gameplay oriented crowd to fill seats to a tournament held in the US that's played by 16 Koreans...
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I think this is a step backwards for western e-sports tbh. EU and NA is gonna need their own leagues outside korea in order for starcraft to grow. I mean just look at ice hockey! There's KHL in Russia, Elitleague in Sweden, SM-liiga to name a few. Even though NHL might be the biggest and most badass (let's make NHL the korean example) many players in NHL comes from KHL(EU) Elitleague(NA) and SM-liiga(SEA). Each region needs a good league or tournaments without koreans in order for people to take interest in local players and maybe start playing themselves.
WCS EU had 100k+ watchers on twitch for a reason, I'm not so sure I'm going to watch past round of 8 and seeing koreans battling over the win in EU championship.
And I probably won't even watch NA since it's so korean stacked, If I want to see koreans play I can tune in to WCS korea and watch Flash instead
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On April 03 2013 14:21 Charlie.Sheen wrote:Summary:GSL is demoted, OSL is revived, SPL and GSTL won't change. White people wins the symbolic battle, but Koreans will win more money from west. China is forgotten. And the big winner award goes to + Show Spoiler +
Quote myself from the announcement thread. Also GreTech is a puppy company now, Blizzard makes all decisions for them. No wonder its CEO resigned several weeks ago.
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On April 11 2013 05:33 Schelim wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 05:24 m0ck wrote:On April 11 2013 05:12 LighT. wrote:On April 11 2013 05:10 RogerChillingworth wrote:
i like how EG is totally fucking over any potential for their NA players (idra/demuslim) to make a splash. Hos is EG at fault? How would you feel as a korean playing staying at EG if you were told "no you cant play in WCS:NA although technically you can and it has easier competition, we want your inferior teammates to get the money, you are to play in the much harder, Kespa/top eSF player infested WCS: KR" Happy that I was receiving a salary in cutthroat, work-for-free SK? ^^ I do think the EU/US teams are to blame. They are weighing a short term advantage over the potential damage to the US scene. are you implying that this is going to hurt the 'US scene'? how could it possibly get worse? there are a total of two good players from the entirety of North America, and not only is neither of them from the US, they also both live in Korea right now. if anything, this is gonna help NA players as they are gonna get the chance to play against good players on a more regular basis which should help them improve, and maybe also realize just how bad they really are.
Flying Koreans in for tournaments does nothing to help the players in the host-nation. That is the situation we've had since the beginning of WoL.
A worse situation: the viewer-base in the US disappears along with the US semi-pro scene and a 30/32 Korean NA WCS.
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As Blizzard has said, it's not region locked because they think that the introduction of Koreans into NA/EU will magically force the NA/EU players to get better and become competitive with Koreans.
We can see everything that is (potentially) wrong with that. But they don't, and even if they do eventually, they would never admit it until it's way too late.
We just have to put up with the consequences, I guess.
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On April 11 2013 05:33 Schelim wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 05:24 m0ck wrote:On April 11 2013 05:12 LighT. wrote:On April 11 2013 05:10 RogerChillingworth wrote:
i like how EG is totally fucking over any potential for their NA players (idra/demuslim) to make a splash. Hos is EG at fault? How would you feel as a korean playing staying at EG if you were told "no you cant play in WCS:NA although technically you can and it has easier competition, we want your inferior teammates to get the money, you are to play in the much harder, Kespa/top eSF player infested WCS: KR" Happy that I was receiving a salary in cutthroat, work-for-free SK? ^^ I do think the EU/US teams are to blame. They are weighing a short term advantage over the potential damage to the US scene. are you implying that this is going to hurt the 'US scene'? how could it possibly get worse? there are a total of two good players from the entirety of North America, and not only is neither of them from the US, they also both live in Korea right now. if anything, this is gonna help NA players as they are gonna get the chance to play against good players on a more regular basis which should help them improve, and maybe also realize just how bad they really are.
You seem pretty out of touch. One of the main reasons the NA scene hasn't developed is because right now, NA players can make more money just being entertaining and streaming all day.
There is literally no motivation for someone on the cusp of being top tier, like IdrA, to bother training hard offstream. CatZ's post details it eloquently, but to sum it up, would you quit your day job to race Michael Phelps for $100k next week? No one would. But would you quit your day job to race a local champion for $50k in the next few months? That's a much more interesting prospect if you're good at swimming. Now that there is motivation for players to grow and blossom, they can *eventually* catch up to Koreans.
Right now, there's really no incentive for a 16 year old GM to put in the time to try to go to MLG.
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I'm not sure why Blizzard is even bothering to call it WCS if they're going to let anyone play anywhere, which will inevitably end up in Korean-heavy representation from every "region".
From a pure quality of gameplay perspective this isn't a bad thing, but it certainly stunts the growth of SC2 in NA by giving our own players fewer things to compete for.
I should clarify by saying that in general I don't care much about foreigners with the exception of maybe one or two players, but it makes no sense at all to create an NA division in a World Championship event and let 30 Koreans play in it.
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On April 11 2013 05:33 Schelim wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 05:24 m0ck wrote:On April 11 2013 05:12 LighT. wrote:On April 11 2013 05:10 RogerChillingworth wrote:
i like how EG is totally fucking over any potential for their NA players (idra/demuslim) to make a splash. Hos is EG at fault? How would you feel as a korean playing staying at EG if you were told "no you cant play in WCS:NA although technically you can and it has easier competition, we want your inferior teammates to get the money, you are to play in the much harder, Kespa/top eSF player infested WCS: KR" Happy that I was receiving a salary in cutthroat, work-for-free SK? ^^ I do think the EU/US teams are to blame. They are weighing a short term advantage over the potential damage to the US scene. are you implying that this is going to hurt the 'US scene'? how could it possibly get worse? there are a total of two good players from the entirety of North America, and not only is neither of them from the US, they also both live in Korea right now. if anything, this is gonna help NA players as they are gonna get the chance to play against good players on a more regular basis which should help them improve, and maybe also realize just how bad they really are.
I'd love to see you try to quit your job and go full time pro and without a streaming audience.
then tell me if it's really sustainable (protip: it's not)
On April 11 2013 05:40 forsooth wrote:
I'm not sure why Blizzard is even bothering to call it WCS if they're going to let anyone play anywhere, which will inevitably end up in Korean-heavy representation from every "region".
From a pure quality of gameplay perspective this isn't a bad thing, but it certainly stunts the growth of SC2 in NA by giving our own players fewer things to compete for.
I'll call it KSL x3
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On April 11 2013 05:37 m0ck wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 05:33 Schelim wrote:On April 11 2013 05:24 m0ck wrote:On April 11 2013 05:12 LighT. wrote:On April 11 2013 05:10 RogerChillingworth wrote:
i like how EG is totally fucking over any potential for their NA players (idra/demuslim) to make a splash. Hos is EG at fault? How would you feel as a korean playing staying at EG if you were told "no you cant play in WCS:NA although technically you can and it has easier competition, we want your inferior teammates to get the money, you are to play in the much harder, Kespa/top eSF player infested WCS: KR" Happy that I was receiving a salary in cutthroat, work-for-free SK? ^^ I do think the EU/US teams are to blame. They are weighing a short term advantage over the potential damage to the US scene. are you implying that this is going to hurt the 'US scene'? how could it possibly get worse? there are a total of two good players from the entirety of North America, and not only is neither of them from the US, they also both live in Korea right now. if anything, this is gonna help NA players as they are gonna get the chance to play against good players on a more regular basis which should help them improve, and maybe also realize just how bad they really are. Flying Koreans in for tournaments does nothing to help the players in the host-nation. That is the situation we've had since the beginning of WoL. A worse situation: the viewer-base in the US disappears along with the US semi-pro scene and a 30/32 Korean NA WCS.
15/16 Korean NA WCS Ro16. 15 Koreans plus Scarlett. Great.
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On April 11 2013 05:38 MCXD wrote:
As Blizzard has said, it's not region locked because they think that the introduction of Koreans into NA/EU will magically force the NA/EU players to get better and become competitive with Koreans.
We can see everything that is (potentially) wrong with that. But they don't.
They actually acknowledged that the transition might be hard, but hoped to develop the EU and US scenes by distributing Korean practice partners among the scenes, transmitting knowledge and "skill". Their reasoning is that a larger focus on the LAN aspect in later seasons will force the players to establish themselves in the regions.
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The biggest problem with this for me (in NA) is not that I want to see foreigners win especially bad, but this just isn't interesting. A foreigner code S would be interesting, even if the level of play isn't the highest. Now it's basically just become a lesser KR GSL. The level of play isn't the best AND it doesn't have anything special about it.
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On April 11 2013 05:37 m0ck wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 05:33 Schelim wrote:On April 11 2013 05:24 m0ck wrote:On April 11 2013 05:12 LighT. wrote:On April 11 2013 05:10 RogerChillingworth wrote:
i like how EG is totally fucking over any potential for their NA players (idra/demuslim) to make a splash. Hos is EG at fault? How would you feel as a korean playing staying at EG if you were told "no you cant play in WCS:NA although technically you can and it has easier competition, we want your inferior teammates to get the money, you are to play in the much harder, Kespa/top eSF player infested WCS: KR" Happy that I was receiving a salary in cutthroat, work-for-free SK? ^^ I do think the EU/US teams are to blame. They are weighing a short term advantage over the potential damage to the US scene. are you implying that this is going to hurt the 'US scene'? how could it possibly get worse? there are a total of two good players from the entirety of North America, and not only is neither of them from the US, they also both live in Korea right now. if anything, this is gonna help NA players as they are gonna get the chance to play against good players on a more regular basis which should help them improve, and maybe also realize just how bad they really are. Flying Koreans in for tournaments does nothing to help the players in the host-nation. That is the situation we've had since the beginning of WoL. A worse situation: the viewer-base in the US disappears along with the US semi-pro scene and a 30/32 Korean NA WCS.
it's not ideal, but it's also not their plan for the long run. blizzard have said that from next year they want the whole thing played offline (just like GSL), so the players will actually have to live in the region they're playing in. we're gonna have like half a year of the current setup, which still makes sc2 much more interesting to watch than before (especially if you care about tournaments outside of Korea) and gives everybody a chance to get acquainted with the format and how everything is gonna work.
people have to look further than just these few months. obviously Blizzard is trying to really push sc2 now. first they release HotS and then they almost immediately move into WCS. i'm not saying they're doing everything perfectly, but sometimes people just need to chill, sit back and watch what's gonna happen. especially when it doesn't affect us as viewers in any serious way anyways.
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On April 11 2013 05:40 forsooth wrote:
From a pure quality of gameplay perspective this isn't a bad thing, but it certainly stunts the growth of SC2 in NA by giving our own players fewer things to compete for.
It's still more than before. And I think what's lacking the most in NA is lower level tournaments for newer players to show themselves. I don't think a tournament designed to be a competition of the best of the best should have development of inferior scenes as it's main goal.
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wait wait..
so if Jaedong is going to play in the WCS:NA
Does that mean his hoards of fangirls will be at these events too!?
NA events could use some fangirls.
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Well only a single korean on a korean team is playing on NA.
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wait wait..
If offline part of WCS:NA will be all koreans when will people chant USA USA USA?
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On April 11 2013 05:42 m0ck wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 05:38 MCXD wrote:
As Blizzard has said, it's not region locked because they think that the introduction of Koreans into NA/EU will magically force the NA/EU players to get better and become competitive with Koreans.
We can see everything that is (potentially) wrong with that. But they don't. They actually acknowledged that the transition might be hard, but hoped to develop the EU and US scenes by distributing Korean practice partners among the scenes, transmitting knowledge and "skill". Their reasoning is that a larger focus on the LAN aspect in later seasons will force the players to establish themselves in the regions.
But if the majority of the Korean players just stay in KR and only fly out for their matches over the weekend that the Ro16 takes place... then that simply isn't true.
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On April 11 2013 05:41 Crownlol wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 05:37 m0ck wrote:On April 11 2013 05:33 Schelim wrote:On April 11 2013 05:24 m0ck wrote:On April 11 2013 05:12 LighT. wrote:On April 11 2013 05:10 RogerChillingworth wrote:
i like how EG is totally fucking over any potential for their NA players (idra/demuslim) to make a splash. Hos is EG at fault? How would you feel as a korean playing staying at EG if you were told "no you cant play in WCS:NA although technically you can and it has easier competition, we want your inferior teammates to get the money, you are to play in the much harder, Kespa/top eSF player infested WCS: KR" Happy that I was receiving a salary in cutthroat, work-for-free SK? ^^ I do think the EU/US teams are to blame. They are weighing a short term advantage over the potential damage to the US scene. are you implying that this is going to hurt the 'US scene'? how could it possibly get worse? there are a total of two good players from the entirety of North America, and not only is neither of them from the US, they also both live in Korea right now. if anything, this is gonna help NA players as they are gonna get the chance to play against good players on a more regular basis which should help them improve, and maybe also realize just how bad they really are. Flying Koreans in for tournaments does nothing to help the players in the host-nation. That is the situation we've had since the beginning of WoL. A worse situation: the viewer-base in the US disappears along with the US semi-pro scene and a 30/32 Korean NA WCS. 15/16 Korean NA WCS Ro16. 15 Koreans plus Scarlett. Great.
The randomization of the bracket, most likely it will be 13-14 Koreans with 2-3 Foreigners in ro16.
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On April 11 2013 05:36 Charlie.Sheen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 14:21 Charlie.Sheen wrote:Summary:GSL is demoted, OSL is revived, SPL and GSTL won't change. White people wins the symbolic battle, but Koreans will win more money from west. China is forgotten. And the big winner award goes to + Show Spoiler + Quote myself from the announcement thread. Also GreTech is a puppy company now, Blizzard makes all decisions for them. No wonder its CEO resigned several weeks ago.
20 million koreans use GomPlayer to watch PPV/ad-supported porn, im sure the company as whole is not very dependent on GSL/Blizzard
edit: that data is from 2007 tho, so no idea how the non-esports section is doing these days
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EPT
