On April 10 2013 22:21 CoR wrote: about the olympic guys "you not watch them for blabla you watch them for best games you make me sick etc" i dont find it to quote ^^ NO! i watch it to see germans win and so alot watch sc2 to see foreigns or their homeland guys win, i rly no care good games from koreans in europe i want GERMANS to win, in sport everyone is a nationalist for sure and in esport why it have to be different ? its a bit i also like EVERY european win
Maybe because SC2 doesnt have the tradition that established sports have and grew as a global thing that we were all exposed to since the beginning?
It hurts to see so many people speaking for 'everyone' or 'we', not all SC2 fans think the same way and our preferences are very different. I for one don't care AT ALL about the foreign scene and the the average EU/NA player seems less interesting than the shyest korean for me. It just sucks that GSL won't have MVP and Jaedong now.
This : "the average EU/NA player seems less interesting than the shyest korean for me" is BULLSHIT.
I'm glad there are only a few koreans attending WCS EU and truthfully with the amount of guys we have in Europe + the lag it will be hard for them (even if they are as skilled as MMA and Mvp). So I made a list of the scariest europeans (arbitrary forgot a lot) who have a good chance to win games vs koreans (I see the ones with +++ winning series) :
I really think that a all koreans RO16 in one or two season is possible. Should that happen, whatever the die hard "I wanna see the best players" fans are saying, viewership will shrink and that will be the beginning of the end for the american scene. I never thought Blizzard could fuck up something that bad ...
On April 10 2013 22:51 iNfeRnaL wrote: IMO Blizzard deserves all the shit it's going to be in soon. Big time. Just finally die please and leave gaming to the gamers will ya?
*Quality poster* LOL
don't take the term too literally, i post some pretty bad crap sometimes
I strongly disagree with that, Coach Park would be surprised.
well , it's not like region locking works. Take a look at last year WCS NA. The big winner from that tournament was Vibe. Scarlett was already sort of established then.carlett, the winner of WCS NA became established not because of WCS NA but because he managed to did well in tournaments where Koreans are present.
Did the tournament even do anything to the NA scene? He usually streams for less than 1000 viewers i think. Why are these "casual viewers" not watching their local hero after the tournament then? Did any permanent benefit arise from that tournament? I don't think so.
Because in people's mind, the tournament was 2nd tier without the presence of Koreans. People do not want to just watch foreigners. People want to watch foreigners defeat top koreans. Idra defeating Flash. Naniwa defeating Life. That's the kind of games that people want to see. Not Vibe defeating Gowser or something.
Unfortunately, that is getting more and more impossible. That is why something drastic like this need to be done. The Americans/Europeans need to learn from Koreans and they have to do it asap. That is why the Koreans need to be brought to Korea to increase the legitimacy of WCS NA and in the long run so that NA/EU progamers can "steal" some of the skills/infrastructure/training regimes. Risky yes, but absolutely necesarry considering how big the skill gaps are right now.
And if the "casual viewers" prefer to watch interesting personalities and streamers instead of good players, then that's not going to be affected by WCS anyway.
You post is preposterous. You are simply clueless. This got nothing to do with easy money. This is basically a death stroke to any NA player or any future talent from NA. I expect many NA teams will also avoid sc2. No Sponsors or teams will pay a dime to any NA player simply because the investment is not worth it. Sponsors and teams wants exposure
And this actually gives the NA scene legitimacy AND exposure. How many viewers did the NA WCS get? What about any other NA held tournament without Koreans?
There is only one thing that's stopped "NA only" events. SPONSORS wanted viewers. Viewers wanted Koreans.
And that's not true at all. The reason NA WSC got less viewers was because MLG was at the same time. It was unfair for the NA WCS.
Look at WCS EU one of the highest watched tournaments in 2012 and properly one of the best and most exciting
On April 10 2013 22:13 mordk wrote:
That is not 100% sure. Viewers want a lot of things and its not just Koreans. My girlfriend only wants to watch games with players she likes, and the only Koreans she cares about are MKP and Liquid Hero. The rest are EG players and Gubby. People who claim that everyone wants Korean players are wrong. Of course, nothing is absolute, but it's a good point. Viewership in all tournaments increases dramatically when there's good KR players involved. If a foreigner manages to go to the later stages then that's viewer count heaven, but foreinger only tournaments get a ton less viewers.
Not true Mordk . Again look at WSC EU
One tournament hardly means anything. For every case I can remember except WCS EU finals, tournaments heavily benefited in terms of viewer counts with the presence of KR players.
No one is saying a few Korean players wouldn't be fine. Polt and Violet would be totally ok. But the top 16 shouldn't be Korean for an NA league, where the rules for NA players trying for the Korean league require them to be in Korea. Viewers or not, it is BS for the any player in NA who has been putting in any serious effort. The koreans are comming here for easy money because they are allowed qualify and play online. If they were required to play off line, in a studio, we should very few, if any.
I welcome this. I honestly would rather watch top 16 filled w/ decent koreans like on the list. If I really wanted to watch some NA/EU master/gm noobs play, I would just watch my own replays...
Yeah, well half my friends and girlfriend disagree. They couldn't give two shits about Korean players except MKP and Liquid Hero. That is like 10 viewer that will not be interested in this WCS if it is all Koreans.
awesome, a whopping total of 10 viewers!!
like Acrofales said, who would rather watch minigun vs catz when you can watch herO vs aLive.
Please take you trolling elsewhere may I suggest Reddit
On April 10 2013 22:46 Tobblish wrote:
On April 10 2013 22:42 Plansix wrote:
On April 10 2013 22:40 dacimvrl wrote:
On April 10 2013 22:34 Plansix wrote:
On April 10 2013 22:31 mordk wrote:
On April 10 2013 22:13 Benjamin99 wrote:
On April 10 2013 22:07 DusTerr wrote:
On April 10 2013 22:03 Benjamin99 wrote: [quote]
You post is preposterous. You are simply clueless. This got nothing to do with easy money. This is basically a death stroke to any NA player or any future talent from NA. I expect many NA teams will also avoid sc2. No Sponsors or teams will pay a dime to any NA player simply because the investment is not worth it. Sponsors and teams wants exposure
And this actually gives the NA scene legitimacy AND exposure. How many viewers did the NA WCS get? What about any other NA held tournament without Koreans?
There is only one thing that's stopped "NA only" events. SPONSORS wanted viewers. Viewers wanted Koreans.
And that's not true at all. The reason NA WSC got less viewers was because MLG was at the same time. It was unfair for the NA WCS.
Look at WCS EU one of the highest watched tournaments in 2012 and properly one of the best and most exciting
On April 10 2013 22:13 mordk wrote:
That is not 100% sure. Viewers want a lot of things and its not just Koreans. My girlfriend only wants to watch games with players she likes, and the only Koreans she cares about are MKP and Liquid Hero. The rest are EG players and Gubby. People who claim that everyone wants Korean players are wrong. Of course, nothing is absolute, but it's a good point. Viewership in all tournaments increases dramatically when there's good KR players involved. If a foreigner manages to go to the later stages then that's viewer count heaven, but foreinger only tournaments get a ton less viewers.
Not true Mordk . Again look at WSC EU
One tournament hardly means anything. For every case I can remember except WCS EU finals, tournaments heavily benefited in terms of viewer counts with the presence of KR players.
No one is saying a few Korean players wouldn't be fine. Polt and Violet would be totally ok. But the top 16 shouldn't be Korean for an NA league, where the rules for NA players trying for the Korean league require them to be in Korea. Viewers or not, it is BS for the any player in NA who has been putting in any serious effort. The koreans are comming here for easy money because they are allowed qualify and play online. If they were required to play off line, in a studio, we should very few, if any.
I welcome this. I honestly would rather watch top 16 filled w/ decent koreans like on the list. If I really wanted to watch some NA/EU master/gm noobs play, I would just watch my own replays...
Yeah, well half my friends and girlfriend disagree. They couldn't give two shits about Korean players except MKP and Liquid Hero. That is like 10 viewer that will not be interested in this WCS if it is all Koreans.
I wonder why those 10 people don't like to watch Koreans instead of Americans. Racists people I bet.
Yes 90% fans of Starcraft are all racist you got us.
90%?!... I know you're just defending yourself from an even more ridiculous statement. But even then, even Proleague gets more viewers than the regular local tournament, everybody loves GSL, and most people watch MLGs to see good koreans win, and hopefully, some foreigner make a break, but the amount of people who stop watching once all foreigners are eliminated is really very small.
People like the toughest competition. And I say this even if I believe this is the wrong approach for WCS, that was supposed to be a different type of tournament.
No people don't because then the world cup in football wouldn't be so popular or the Olympics. People like to see sport stars from there own country. Again you assumptions are baseless there is no facts to prove you statements. Maybe the small elitist community got the same opinion as you but if you want to grow the sc2 scene we need the casual fan.
On April 10 2013 22:51 iNfeRnaL wrote: IMO Blizzard deserves all the shit it's going to be in soon. Big time. Just finally die please and leave gaming to the gamers will ya?
*Quality poster* LOL
don't take the term too literally, i post some pretty bad crap sometimes
I strongly disagree with that, Coach Park would be surprised.
i can't work out if you're being really snide or laughing along haha
Good for the NA scene really? Please tell me you trolling or kidding?. You will not find a single NA player who think this is good for the NA scene I can promise you that
Only if they just want easy competition/money. It's good for the NA scene in the long run to have actual competition.
You post is preposterous. You are simply clueless. This got nothing to do with easy money. This is basically a death stroke to any NA player or any future talent from NA. I expect many NA teams will also avoid sc2. No Sponsors or teams will pay a dime to any NA player simply because the investment is not worth it. Sponsors and teams wants exposure
And this actually gives the NA scene legitimacy AND exposure. How many viewers did the NA WCS get? What about any other NA held tournament without Koreans?
There is only one thing that's stopped "NA only" events. SPONSORS wanted viewers. Viewers wanted Koreans.
And that's not true at all. The reason NA WSC got less viewers was because MLG was at the same time. It was unfair for the NA WCS.
Look at WCS EU one of the highest watched tournaments in 2012 and properly one of the best and most exciting
On April 10 2013 22:13 mordk wrote:
That is not 100% sure. Viewers want a lot of things and its not just Koreans. My girlfriend only wants to watch games with players she likes, and the only Koreans she cares about are MKP and Liquid Hero. The rest are EG players and Gubby. People who claim that everyone wants Korean players are wrong. Of course, nothing is absolute, but it's a good point. Viewership in all tournaments increases dramatically when there's good KR players involved. If a foreigner manages to go to the later stages then that's viewer count heaven, but foreinger only tournaments get a ton less viewers.
Not true Mordk . Again look at WSC EU
One tournament hardly means anything. For every case I can remember except WCS EU finals, tournaments heavily benefited in terms of viewer counts with the presence of KR players.
No one is saying a few Korean players wouldn't be fine. Polt and Violet would be totally ok. But the top 16 shouldn't be Korean for an NA league, where the rules for NA players trying for the Korean league require them to be in Korea. Viewers or not, it is BS for the any player in NA who has been putting in any serious effort. The koreans are comming here for easy money because they are allowed qualify and play online. If they were required to play off line, in a studio, we should very few, if any.
I honestly doubt that, there'd be less of them, but they'd still be there. The players participating in the EU WCS are going to have to move to EU for several months at a time in order to play, and they seem to be fine making that commitment.
The visa issues will be a huge barrier for entry into the US. I am pretty sure that most of them are coming under a "competitors visa" which is designed for thinks like MGL or the Boston marathon. However, those are time limited and being here all year is a different prospect all together. A work visa is super hard and costly to get and requires an NA sponsor(vise sponsor, ie, employer, not like Kingston HyperX) for the visa. It will be fewer than you think.
I'm not sure on KR-US visa laws, but isn't it a simple reentry system? Leave the country for x days and you can get back in on a tourist visa again? If not, I'm sure there's some way blizzard can pull some strings/change the structure of the league that makes it possible for them to sponsor players directly.
I don't know, but NA visas are rough if you are going to be here all year. The one they use to come to NA for a weekend for MLG will not fly and work visa(what Demulism has) are super costly to get(lawyers). It will be a lot more effort than a lot of Korean players are willing to put in unless the teams handle it. And you need an NA employee to sponsor you(once against demulism is an employee of EG) and sponsoring a visa cost them money too.
Immigration law is freaking complicated and living in NA for a full year will require the Koreans to dive into that mess.
On April 10 2013 22:51 iNfeRnaL wrote: IMO Blizzard deserves all the shit it's going to be in soon. Big time. Just finally die please and leave gaming to the gamers will ya?
*Quality poster* LOL
don't take the term too literally, i post some pretty bad crap sometimes
Yeah, but that's probably because you have 15 times more posts than him. ^.^
On April 10 2013 22:54 dtz wrote: well , it's not like region locking works. Take a look at last year WCS NA. The winner was Root.Vibe. Did the tournament even do anything to the NA scene? He streams for less than 1000 viewers. Why are these "casual viewers" not watching their local hero after the tournament then? Did any permanent benefit arise from that tournament? I don't think so.
Because in people's mind, the tournament was 2nd tier without the presence of Koreans. People do not want to just watch foreigners. People want to watch foreigners defeat top koreans. Idra defeating Flash. Naniwa defeating Life. That's the kind of games that people want to see. Not Vibe defeating Gowser or something.
Unfortunately, that is getting more and more impossible. That is why something drastic like this need to be done. The Americans/Europeans need to learn from Koreans and they have to do it asap. That is why the Koreans need to be brought to Korea to increase the legitimacy of WCS NA and in the long run so that NA/EU progamers can "steal" some of the skills/infrastructure/training regimes. Risky yes, but absolutely necesarry considering how big the skill gaps are right now.
And if the "casual viewers" prefer to watch interesting personalities and streamers instead of good players, then that's not going to be affected by WCS anyway.
Exactly, that is what draws the most viewers.
Historically, Foreigner vs KR > KR final stages > Foreigner only tournament
On April 10 2013 22:21 CoR wrote: about the olympic guys "you not watch them for blabla you watch them for best games you make me sick etc" i dont find it to quote ^^ NO! i watch it to see germans win and so alot watch sc2 to see foreigns or their homeland guys win, i rly no care good games from koreans in europe i want GERMANS to win, in sport everyone is a nationalist for sure and in esport why it have to be different ? its a bit i also like EVERY european win
Maybe because SC2 doesnt have the tradition that established sports have and grew as a global thing that we were all exposed to since the beginning?
It hurts to see so many people speaking for 'everyone' or 'we', not all SC2 fans think the same way and our preferences are very different. I for one don't care AT ALL about the foreign scene and the the average EU/NA player seems less interesting than the shyest korean for me. It just sucks that GSL won't have MVP and Jaedong now.
This : "the average EU/NA player seems less interesting than the shyest korean for me" is BULLSHIT.
I'm glad there are only a few koreans attending WCS EU and truthfully with the amount of guys we have in Europe + the lag it will be hard for them (even if they are as skilled as MMA and Mvp). So I made a list of the scariest europeans (arbitrary forgot a lot) who have a good chance to win games vs koreans (I see the ones with +++ winning series) :
On April 10 2013 22:21 CoR wrote: about the olympic guys "you not watch them for blabla you watch them for best games you make me sick etc" i dont find it to quote ^^ NO! i watch it to see germans win and so alot watch sc2 to see foreigns or their homeland guys win, i rly no care good games from koreans in europe i want GERMANS to win, in sport everyone is a nationalist for sure and in esport why it have to be different ? its a bit i also like EVERY european win
Maybe because SC2 doesnt have the tradition that established sports have and grew as a global thing that we were all exposed to since the beginning?
It hurts to see so many people speaking for 'everyone' or 'we', not all SC2 fans think the same way and our preferences are very different. I for one don't care AT ALL about the foreign scene and the the average EU/NA player seems less interesting than the shyest korean for me. It just sucks that GSL won't have MVP and Jaedong now.
This : "the average EU/NA player seems less interesting than the shyest korean for me" is BULLSHIT.
I'm glad there are only a few koreans attending WCS EU and truthfully with the amount of guys we have in Europe + the lag it will be hard for them (even if they are as skilled as MMA and Mvp). So I made a list of the scariest europeans (arbitrary forgot a lot) who have a good chance to win games vs koreans (I see the ones with +++ winning series) :
Yes the EU scene is strong and will properly get stronger but the NA scene will get destroyed and is a real shame
On April 10 2013 22:54 dtz wrote: well , it's not like region locking works. Take a look at last year WCS NA. The big winner from that tournament was Vibe. Scarlett and Idra was already sort of established then.
Did the tournament even do anything to the NA scene? He usually streams for less than 1000 viewers i think. Why are these "casual viewers" not watching their local hero after the tournament then? Did any permanent benefit arise from that tournament? I don't think so.
Because in people's mind, the tournament was 2nd tier without the presence of Koreans. People do not want to just watch foreigners. People want to watch foreigners defeat top koreans. Idra defeating Flash. Naniwa defeating Life. That's the kind of games that people want to see. Not Vibe defeating Gowser or something.
Unfortunately, that is getting more and more impossible. That is why something drastic like this need to be done. The Americans/Europeans need to learn from Koreans and they have to do it asap. That is why the Koreans need to be brought to Korea to increase the legitimacy of WCS NA and in the long run so that NA/EU progamers can "steal" some of the skills/infrastructure/training regimes. Risky yes, but absolutely necesarry considering how big the skill gaps are right now.
And if the "casual viewers" prefer to watch interesting personalities and streamers instead of good players, then that's not going to be affected by WCS anyway.
You talking about a tournament that was played at the same time as one of the biggest tournaments in the world MLG. You cant user that data set.
Well looks like I won't be watching much of the WCS NA. Thought this would be good for the NA scene. BUT looks like NA scene will be killed even more with the koreans coming for the "easy" money. This is pretty much the opposite to making progaming more sustainable for the "lesser" players
Doubt this will increase the level of play for NA players, since they will eventually not even be present in the league.
Had high hopes for this tourney but this is just fucking dumb.
And comparing this to traditional professional athletes is stupid, They have guaranteed salaries. Many progamers do not, and the ones that do, can't really live off that money alone.
On April 10 2013 22:51 iNfeRnaL wrote: IMO Blizzard deserves all the shit it's going to be in soon. Big time. Just finally die please and leave gaming to the gamers will ya?
*Quality poster* LOL
don't take the term too literally, i post some pretty bad crap sometimes
I strongly disagree with that, Coach Park would be surprised.
i can't work out if you're being really snide or laughing along haha
Everyone can't be all knowing like the master himself + Show Spoiler +
On April 10 2013 22:07 DusTerr wrote: [quote] And this actually gives the NA scene legitimacy AND exposure. How many viewers did the NA WCS get? What about any other NA held tournament without Koreans?
There is only one thing that's stopped "NA only" events. SPONSORS wanted viewers. Viewers wanted Koreans.
And that's not true at all. The reason NA WSC got less viewers was because MLG was at the same time. It was unfair for the NA WCS.
Look at WCS EU one of the highest watched tournaments in 2012 and properly one of the best and most exciting
On April 10 2013 22:13 mordk wrote:
That is not 100% sure. Viewers want a lot of things and its not just Koreans. My girlfriend only wants to watch games with players she likes, and the only Koreans she cares about are MKP and Liquid Hero. The rest are EG players and Gubby. People who claim that everyone wants Korean players are wrong. Of course, nothing is absolute, but it's a good point. Viewership in all tournaments increases dramatically when there's good KR players involved. If a foreigner manages to go to the later stages then that's viewer count heaven, but foreinger only tournaments get a ton less viewers.
Not true Mordk . Again look at WSC EU
One tournament hardly means anything. For every case I can remember except WCS EU finals, tournaments heavily benefited in terms of viewer counts with the presence of KR players.
No one is saying a few Korean players wouldn't be fine. Polt and Violet would be totally ok. But the top 16 shouldn't be Korean for an NA league, where the rules for NA players trying for the Korean league require them to be in Korea. Viewers or not, it is BS for the any player in NA who has been putting in any serious effort. The koreans are comming here for easy money because they are allowed qualify and play online. If they were required to play off line, in a studio, we should very few, if any.
I welcome this. I honestly would rather watch top 16 filled w/ decent koreans like on the list. If I really wanted to watch some NA/EU master/gm noobs play, I would just watch my own replays...
Yeah, well half my friends and girlfriend disagree. They couldn't give two shits about Korean players except MKP and Liquid Hero. That is like 10 viewer that will not be interested in this WCS if it is all Koreans.
awesome, a whopping total of 10 viewers!!
like Acrofales said, who would rather watch minigun vs catz when you can watch herO vs aLive.
Please take you trolling elsewhere may I suggest Reddit
On April 10 2013 22:46 Tobblish wrote:
On April 10 2013 22:42 Plansix wrote:
On April 10 2013 22:40 dacimvrl wrote:
On April 10 2013 22:34 Plansix wrote:
On April 10 2013 22:31 mordk wrote:
On April 10 2013 22:13 Benjamin99 wrote:
On April 10 2013 22:07 DusTerr wrote: [quote] And this actually gives the NA scene legitimacy AND exposure. How many viewers did the NA WCS get? What about any other NA held tournament without Koreans?
There is only one thing that's stopped "NA only" events. SPONSORS wanted viewers. Viewers wanted Koreans.
And that's not true at all. The reason NA WSC got less viewers was because MLG was at the same time. It was unfair for the NA WCS.
Look at WCS EU one of the highest watched tournaments in 2012 and properly one of the best and most exciting
On April 10 2013 22:13 mordk wrote:
That is not 100% sure. Viewers want a lot of things and its not just Koreans. My girlfriend only wants to watch games with players she likes, and the only Koreans she cares about are MKP and Liquid Hero. The rest are EG players and Gubby. People who claim that everyone wants Korean players are wrong. Of course, nothing is absolute, but it's a good point. Viewership in all tournaments increases dramatically when there's good KR players involved. If a foreigner manages to go to the later stages then that's viewer count heaven, but foreinger only tournaments get a ton less viewers.
Not true Mordk . Again look at WSC EU
One tournament hardly means anything. For every case I can remember except WCS EU finals, tournaments heavily benefited in terms of viewer counts with the presence of KR players.
No one is saying a few Korean players wouldn't be fine. Polt and Violet would be totally ok. But the top 16 shouldn't be Korean for an NA league, where the rules for NA players trying for the Korean league require them to be in Korea. Viewers or not, it is BS for the any player in NA who has been putting in any serious effort. The koreans are comming here for easy money because they are allowed qualify and play online. If they were required to play off line, in a studio, we should very few, if any.
I welcome this. I honestly would rather watch top 16 filled w/ decent koreans like on the list. If I really wanted to watch some NA/EU master/gm noobs play, I would just watch my own replays...
Yeah, well half my friends and girlfriend disagree. They couldn't give two shits about Korean players except MKP and Liquid Hero. That is like 10 viewer that will not be interested in this WCS if it is all Koreans.
I wonder why those 10 people don't like to watch Koreans instead of Americans. Racists people I bet.
Yes 90% fans of Starcraft are all racist you got us.
90%?!... I know you're just defending yourself from an even more ridiculous statement. But even then, even Proleague gets more viewers than the regular local tournament, everybody loves GSL, and most people watch MLGs to see good koreans win, and hopefully, some foreigner make a break, but the amount of people who stop watching once all foreigners are eliminated is really very small.
People like the toughest competition. And I say this even if I believe this is the wrong approach for WCS, that was supposed to be a different type of tournament.
No people don't because then the world cup in football wouldn't be so popular or the Olympics. People like to see sport stars from there own country. Again you assumptions are baseless there is no facts to prove you statements. Maybe the small elitist community got the same opinion as you but if you want to grow the sc2 scene we need the casual fan.
But that's because those sports are well established and have huge followings, it just doesn't happen in SC. People watch local football leagues, people don't watch local SC2 tournaments. And my assumptions are as baseless as yours, because you're only giving anecdotal evidence. We're both just speculating stop pretending your statements have any more base than any other person in this thread.
Only if they just want easy competition/money. It's good for the NA scene in the long run to have actual competition.
You post is preposterous. You are simply clueless. This got nothing to do with easy money. This is basically a death stroke to any NA player or any future talent from NA. I expect many NA teams will also avoid sc2. No Sponsors or teams will pay a dime to any NA player simply because the investment is not worth it. Sponsors and teams wants exposure
And this actually gives the NA scene legitimacy AND exposure. How many viewers did the NA WCS get? What about any other NA held tournament without Koreans?
There is only one thing that's stopped "NA only" events. SPONSORS wanted viewers. Viewers wanted Koreans.
And that's not true at all. The reason NA WSC got less viewers was because MLG was at the same time. It was unfair for the NA WCS.
Look at WCS EU one of the highest watched tournaments in 2012 and properly one of the best and most exciting
On April 10 2013 22:13 mordk wrote:
That is not 100% sure. Viewers want a lot of things and its not just Koreans. My girlfriend only wants to watch games with players she likes, and the only Koreans she cares about are MKP and Liquid Hero. The rest are EG players and Gubby. People who claim that everyone wants Korean players are wrong. Of course, nothing is absolute, but it's a good point. Viewership in all tournaments increases dramatically when there's good KR players involved. If a foreigner manages to go to the later stages then that's viewer count heaven, but foreinger only tournaments get a ton less viewers.
Not true Mordk . Again look at WSC EU
One tournament hardly means anything. For every case I can remember except WCS EU finals, tournaments heavily benefited in terms of viewer counts with the presence of KR players.
No one is saying a few Korean players wouldn't be fine. Polt and Violet would be totally ok. But the top 16 shouldn't be Korean for an NA league, where the rules for NA players trying for the Korean league require them to be in Korea. Viewers or not, it is BS for the any player in NA who has been putting in any serious effort. The koreans are comming here for easy money because they are allowed qualify and play online. If they were required to play off line, in a studio, we should very few, if any.
I honestly doubt that, there'd be less of them, but they'd still be there. The players participating in the EU WCS are going to have to move to EU for several months at a time in order to play, and they seem to be fine making that commitment.
The visa issues will be a huge barrier for entry into the US. I am pretty sure that most of them are coming under a "competitors visa" which is designed for thinks like MGL or the Boston marathon. However, those are time limited and being here all year is a different prospect all together. A work visa is super hard and costly to get and requires an NA sponsor(vise sponsor, ie, employer, not like Kingston HyperX) for the visa. It will be fewer than you think.
I'm not sure on KR-US visa laws, but isn't it a simple reentry system? Leave the country for x days and you can get back in on a tourist visa again? If not, I'm sure there's some way blizzard can pull some strings/change the structure of the league that makes it possible for them to sponsor players directly.
I don't know, but NA visas are rough if you are going to be here all year. The one they use to come to NA for a weekend for MLG will not fly and work visa(what Demulism has) are super costly to get(lawyers). It will be a lot more effort than a lot of Korean players are willing to put in unless the teams handle it. And you need an NA employee to sponsor you(once against demulism is an employee of EG) and sponsoring a visa cost them money too.
Immigration law is freaking complicated and living in NA for a full year will require the Koreans to dive into that mess.
So the average casual SC2 viewer is a racist? They don't care about Koreans because they don't know them and see no difference in skill. They also don't really know foreign players, but it's just less frightening to watch somebody with the same skin color.
On April 10 2013 22:39 opterown wrote: i don't know if this was posted previously in this thread, but it brightened up my day a bit
Omg hahaha how could I have missed this XD Edit:
People should chill Blizzard will try to push this event to be Offline at the end of the year. So people playing in the region would have to live at one place for quite some time.
You post is preposterous. You are simply clueless. This got nothing to do with easy money. This is basically a death stroke to any NA player or any future talent from NA. I expect many NA teams will also avoid sc2. No Sponsors or teams will pay a dime to any NA player simply because the investment is not worth it. Sponsors and teams wants exposure
And this actually gives the NA scene legitimacy AND exposure. How many viewers did the NA WCS get? What about any other NA held tournament without Koreans?
There is only one thing that's stopped "NA only" events. SPONSORS wanted viewers. Viewers wanted Koreans.
And that's not true at all. The reason NA WSC got less viewers was because MLG was at the same time. It was unfair for the NA WCS.
Look at WCS EU one of the highest watched tournaments in 2012 and properly one of the best and most exciting
On April 10 2013 22:13 mordk wrote:
That is not 100% sure. Viewers want a lot of things and its not just Koreans. My girlfriend only wants to watch games with players she likes, and the only Koreans she cares about are MKP and Liquid Hero. The rest are EG players and Gubby. People who claim that everyone wants Korean players are wrong. Of course, nothing is absolute, but it's a good point. Viewership in all tournaments increases dramatically when there's good KR players involved. If a foreigner manages to go to the later stages then that's viewer count heaven, but foreinger only tournaments get a ton less viewers.
Not true Mordk . Again look at WSC EU
One tournament hardly means anything. For every case I can remember except WCS EU finals, tournaments heavily benefited in terms of viewer counts with the presence of KR players.
No one is saying a few Korean players wouldn't be fine. Polt and Violet would be totally ok. But the top 16 shouldn't be Korean for an NA league, where the rules for NA players trying for the Korean league require them to be in Korea. Viewers or not, it is BS for the any player in NA who has been putting in any serious effort. The koreans are comming here for easy money because they are allowed qualify and play online. If they were required to play off line, in a studio, we should very few, if any.
I welcome this. I honestly would rather watch top 16 filled w/ decent koreans like on the list. If I really wanted to watch some NA/EU master/gm noobs play, I would just watch my own replays...
Yeah, well half my friends and girlfriend disagree. They couldn't give two shits about Korean players except MKP and Liquid Hero. That is like 10 viewer that will not be interested in this WCS if it is all Koreans.
awesome, a whopping total of 10 viewers!!
Ten viewers who don't play or watch SC2, but meet EG at Pax East and were excited to see them play in the NA event. Now the next time I talk I get to tell them that the whole event is filled with Korean players they have never heard of. They might watch, but there isn't a lot of pull for players who are just coming over here to kick the shit out of the local players and win the prize money.
My new sales pitch is going to be "well wait until its off line and fair. Right now, Korean players are being given the ability to play from home." Someday I will get them to watch SC2.
there you go. They don't even play or watch sc2 regularly, so.. what does it matter what they want to see? It's not like they are actually supporting the scene - subscribing..etc. Hell, they pbly don't even know who Flash is lol.
They know, they just don't watch. But they were interested after PAX. Not so much now. So now that is 10 new viewers that both NA teams and players won't be able to get exposed to.
I mean, if you want the scene to remain small and watch SC2 alone on your PC, you can. I like watching with friend on my TV, in the living room. But that's just me.
On April 10 2013 22:59 zimms wrote: So the average casual SC2 viewer is a racist? They don't care about Koreans because they don't know them and see no difference in skill. They also don't really know foreign players, but it's just less frightening to watch somebody with the same skin color.
Seriously?
well it's not quite like that, but the average sc2 viewer does care more about foreigners than koreans, since koreans can be more difficult to relate to
EPT
and so alot watch sc2 to see foreigns or their homeland guys win, i rly no care good games from koreans in europe i want GERMANS to win, in sport everyone is a nationalist for sure and in esport why it have to be different ? its a bit i also like EVERY european win 
