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On April 09 2013 17:00 Baptista wrote:
If you are in a pool of 32 best players in a region of a blizzard game you should get more than 300$ in official blizzard league. Its just not something you can show off with. 1st place doesn't need 35k, give more to lower players, support the scene.
Agreed. Anyone good enough to finish first isn't going to be struggling with earning enough from SC. But, if it's largely invites that didn't really have to do anything in HotS to be guaranteed money, then I can see this structure. I'd just hope there would be adjustments in the future.
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On April 09 2013 09:20 ffadicted wrote:
IMO the price pool and format is fine for europe, but it's an absolute disgrace that the prize pool and point distribution for GSL is the same. They're essentially ruining the prestige behind GSL (which will remain the hardest tournament to win, let's not kid ourselves, the seasonal finals will the the "Club World Cup" equivalent to GSL's "Champions League", aka kind of a fun but not serious league) just so that they can make foreigners happy to see their favorite but extremely less skilled players win games.
I don't see any insentive for koreans to stay in korea tbh. None whatsoever. And CERTAINLY no incentive for foreigners to ever go there to practice and get better and close the gap between skill level.
I'm very disappointed at WCS. Extremely disappointed.
Though I like the thought behind WCS this is just true. By creating equal prizes etc. the korean scene get's slightly ruined because it will be diluted. GSL was great because it was just the best of the best, now I fear all code A/B players that can manage it will just go to NA. For example MVP, why would he not just try it in NA, given his fame it is probably more attractive for his sponsors as well.
And for offline events they just need to sponsor a ticket to LA (or Hawaii?) and MLG will pay the rest of the flight in america...
We get 3 good leagues instead of 1 super league it seems and I expect seasonal finals to be 8-10ish koreans anyway, because some will qualify overseas.
European players should rejoice though I guess, awesome price pool and it's much more unlikely koreans will try to participate over there. You could almost start to wonder if american people might be tempted to go EU if NA get's too dominated by koreans 
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On April 09 2013 17:11 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 17:00 Baptista wrote:
If you are in a pool of 32 best players in a region of a blizzard game you should get more than 300$ in official blizzard league. Its just not something you can show off with. 1st place doesn't need 35k, give more to lower players, support the scene. Agreed. Anyone good enough to finish first isn't going to be struggling with earning enough from SC. But, if it's largely invites that didn't really have to do anything in HotS to be guaranteed money, then I can see this structure. I'd just hope there would be adjustments in the future.
Well advancing one round already guarantees you 1000 Euro and even if you are thrown out of the tournament in the first round, you still have a chance to play the consolidations for 500 Euro, so I don't think it's that bad. The only people who finish with 300 Euro are the ones who were eliminated the first round and didn't make the 50% cut in the consolidation bracket.
It does kind of suck that Code A has absolutely no price at all, though admitedly it is hard to balance the prize money distribution for code S and code A. Do the last places of Code S gets more money than the first finishers of code A? That would make sense but wouldn't this be kind of weird...?
edit: Nvm, actually the best way to distribute the prize pool between Code S and Code A would be according to when the player is eliminated. So if a Code S player drops to Code A and get eliminated right away, he/she will get less than somebody who started with code A and fought till code S.
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On April 09 2013 09:21 Tidus Mino wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 09:21 Laryleprakon wrote:On April 09 2013 09:17 opterown wrote:Adam Apicella @MrAdamAp 2hThe NA and EU SC2 premiere leagues are pretty amazing pending final acceptances. Can't wait to announce them They probably have a good idea already. Any bets on which Koreans going where? haha It will be interesting to see how they seed Koreans into NA/EU divisions. Kaldor tweeted last night that a lot of Koreans were going to play NA if I remember correctly. afaik EU has 4 invited Koreans, then a couple more trying to qualify
Seriously this is turning out to be the worst way to do it, if 4+ koreans enter into the other regionals. The "best games only" fans will only be getting code a or b players in the other regions, instead of the actual best of the best code s players who will be stuck in korea, and the home team fans still have no shot at seeing one of their own win even the regionals, and the foreign pros still don't get to have their finals to practice for and use to launch their career.
Either give me regionals or give me best of the best, don't do this dumb in between thing that doesn't help anyone. I'm personally completely for regionals, but if it's going to still be "lol koreans win everything everywhere" I'd rather it'd at least be the best koreans.
Well, who knows, maybe korean low code a/code b will actually be manageable by the foreigners, and will actually provide the perfect stepping stone to competitiveness, but that's quite the risk to take.
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On April 09 2013 09:21 Tidus Mino wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 09:21 Laryleprakon wrote:On April 09 2013 09:17 opterown wrote:Adam Apicella @MrAdamAp 2hThe NA and EU SC2 premiere leagues are pretty amazing pending final acceptances. Can't wait to announce them They probably have a good idea already. Any bets on which Koreans going where? haha It will be interesting to see how they seed Koreans into NA/EU divisions. Kaldor tweeted last night that a lot of Koreans were going to play NA if I remember correctly. afaik EU has 4 invited Koreans, then a couple more trying to qualify
I can think of three "European Koreans":
Daisy
ForGG
ReaL
And I'm not sure if ReaL has collected enough achievements to get invited. There are Koreans that did well in European events but haven't shown any indication yet that they want to participate in WCS EU (MC, Yoda, ...)/edit: And they are tied into GSL anyways.
Then, there are a ton of good Koreans that are good but haven't had any good showings in Europe. Or that are merely part of an EU team. These shouldn't get invites to EU but should have to qualify imho.
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On April 09 2013 18:02 SinCitta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 09:21 Tidus Mino wrote:On April 09 2013 09:21 Laryleprakon wrote:On April 09 2013 09:17 opterown wrote:Adam Apicella @MrAdamAp 2hThe NA and EU SC2 premiere leagues are pretty amazing pending final acceptances. Can't wait to announce them They probably have a good idea already. Any bets on which Koreans going where? haha It will be interesting to see how they seed Koreans into NA/EU divisions. Kaldor tweeted last night that a lot of Koreans were going to play NA if I remember correctly. afaik EU has 4 invited Koreans, then a couple more trying to qualify I can think of three "European Koreans": Daisy ForGG ReaL And I'm not sure if ReaL has collected enough achievements to get invited. There are Koreans that did well in European events but haven't shown any indication yet that they want to participate in WCS EU (MC, Yoda, ...). Then, there are a ton of good Koreans that are good but haven't had any good showings in Europe. Or that are merely part of an EU team. These shouldn't get invites to EU but should have to qualify imho.
Don't forget Sting, he finished as second place in the ESET UK Masters and is on a foreign team.
edit: here a link to the major tournaments, I'd say any European player you see mentioned there in a tournament over the course of last year is a top contender for being invited (last year might be too long, but really everybody mentioned in a tournament that long ago is still performing well up to this date):
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Major_Tournaments
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Ah, right! That might be why a WW manager mentioned it. Would be awesome to see him here.
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20k difference between the winner and runner-up is huge, otherwise it sounds good.
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On April 09 2013 18:02 SinCitta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 09:21 Tidus Mino wrote:On April 09 2013 09:21 Laryleprakon wrote:On April 09 2013 09:17 opterown wrote:Adam Apicella @MrAdamAp 2hThe NA and EU SC2 premiere leagues are pretty amazing pending final acceptances. Can't wait to announce them They probably have a good idea already. Any bets on which Koreans going where? haha It will be interesting to see how they seed Koreans into NA/EU divisions. Kaldor tweeted last night that a lot of Koreans were going to play NA if I remember correctly. afaik EU has 4 invited Koreans, then a couple more trying to qualify I can think of three "European Koreans": Daisy ForGG ReaL And I'm not sure if ReaL has collected enough achievements to get invited. There are Koreans that did well in European events but haven't shown any indication yet that they want to participate in WCS EU (MC, Yoda, ...). Then, there are a ton of good Koreans that are good but haven't had any good showings in Europe. Or that are merely part of an EU team. These shouldn't get invites to EU but should have to qualify imho.
Real has had some reasonable LAN finishes.
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On April 09 2013 18:12 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
20k difference between the winner and runner-up is huge, otherwise it sounds good.
What also has to factor in to the price pool is a seed to a season finals. That probably also has guaranteed money.
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Daisy went back to Korea in March, afaik.
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I always figured it would be invite only meh. Open bracket days truly are gone!
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On April 09 2013 18:08 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 18:02 SinCitta wrote:On April 09 2013 09:21 Tidus Mino wrote:On April 09 2013 09:21 Laryleprakon wrote:On April 09 2013 09:17 opterown wrote:Adam Apicella @MrAdamAp 2hThe NA and EU SC2 premiere leagues are pretty amazing pending final acceptances. Can't wait to announce them They probably have a good idea already. Any bets on which Koreans going where? haha It will be interesting to see how they seed Koreans into NA/EU divisions. Kaldor tweeted last night that a lot of Koreans were going to play NA if I remember correctly. afaik EU has 4 invited Koreans, then a couple more trying to qualify I can think of three "European Koreans": Daisy ForGG ReaL And I'm not sure if ReaL has collected enough achievements to get invited. There are Koreans that did well in European events but haven't shown any indication yet that they want to participate in WCS EU (MC, Yoda, ...). Then, there are a ton of good Koreans that are good but haven't had any good showings in Europe. Or that are merely part of an EU team. These shouldn't get invites to EU but should have to qualify imho. Don't forget Sting, he finished as second place in the ESET UK Masters and is on a foreign team. edit: here a link to the major tournaments, I'd say any European player you see mentioned there in a tournament over the course of last year is a top contender for being invited (last year might be too long, but really everybody mentioned in a tournament that long ago is still performing well up to this date): http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Major_Tournaments
Well ForGG would definitely be invited as he's living in France. ReaL might be too, since he's living in Germany but he hasn't been seen much at all recently - he hasn't even been playing for Alien Invasion in the team leagues for some reason. Daisy, Sting and Arthur are all living in Korea, so unless there are plans for them to move to Europe they probably wouldn't be ESL's first choice, though there isn't much reason for them to stay in Korea if they want to play in WCS Europe. Perhaps Western Wolves can arrange a partnership with a team house in Europe for them to be living there (Millenium, Alien Invasion, ESC etc).
There was also a pretty good Code B player called Sickness playing in Italy, he was tearing up the European ladder, at least till like January.
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On April 09 2013 18:26 mikkmagro wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 18:08 JustPassingBy wrote:On April 09 2013 18:02 SinCitta wrote:On April 09 2013 09:21 Tidus Mino wrote:On April 09 2013 09:21 Laryleprakon wrote:On April 09 2013 09:17 opterown wrote:Adam Apicella @MrAdamAp 2hThe NA and EU SC2 premiere leagues are pretty amazing pending final acceptances. Can't wait to announce them They probably have a good idea already. Any bets on which Koreans going where? haha It will be interesting to see how they seed Koreans into NA/EU divisions. Kaldor tweeted last night that a lot of Koreans were going to play NA if I remember correctly. afaik EU has 4 invited Koreans, then a couple more trying to qualify I can think of three "European Koreans": Daisy ForGG ReaL And I'm not sure if ReaL has collected enough achievements to get invited. There are Koreans that did well in European events but haven't shown any indication yet that they want to participate in WCS EU (MC, Yoda, ...). Then, there are a ton of good Koreans that are good but haven't had any good showings in Europe. Or that are merely part of an EU team. These shouldn't get invites to EU but should have to qualify imho. Don't forget Sting, he finished as second place in the ESET UK Masters and is on a foreign team. edit: here a link to the major tournaments, I'd say any European player you see mentioned there in a tournament over the course of last year is a top contender for being invited (last year might be too long, but really everybody mentioned in a tournament that long ago is still performing well up to this date): http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Major_Tournaments Well ForGG would definitely be invited as he's living in France. ReaL might be too, since he's living in Germany but he hasn't been seen much at all recently - he hasn't even been playing for Alien Invasion in the team leagues for some reason. Daisy, Sting and Arthur are all living in Korea, so unless there are plans for them to move to Europe they probably wouldn't be ESL's first choice, though there isn't much reason for them to stay in Korea if they want to play in WCS Europe. Perhaps Western Wolves can arrange a partnership with a team house in Europe for them to be living there (Millenium, Alien Invasion, ESC etc). There was also a pretty good Code B player called Sickness playing in Italy, he was tearing up the European ladder, at least till like January.
Well, ReaL is also in Korea right now, though I hope he'll be back soon.
As for Daisy and Sting, I hope the WW manager can work something out should both decide to move to Europe (hoping for Germany!).
Also according to the prelimenary info, the seeds are decided by tournament results. So I don't think we'll see Sickness invited. But I hope he'll definitely take a shot at one of the many qualifiers!
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I like the format, especially because the number of invited players is so high, this keeps koreans out from regional tournaments, unless they find a team that pays the trip.
If I watch a european regional I want to watch european players, not koreans who did not make it in GSL.
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On April 09 2013 18:26 mikkmagro wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 18:08 JustPassingBy wrote:On April 09 2013 18:02 SinCitta wrote:On April 09 2013 09:21 Tidus Mino wrote:On April 09 2013 09:21 Laryleprakon wrote:On April 09 2013 09:17 opterown wrote:Adam Apicella @MrAdamAp 2hThe NA and EU SC2 premiere leagues are pretty amazing pending final acceptances. Can't wait to announce them They probably have a good idea already. Any bets on which Koreans going where? haha It will be interesting to see how they seed Koreans into NA/EU divisions. Kaldor tweeted last night that a lot of Koreans were going to play NA if I remember correctly. afaik EU has 4 invited Koreans, then a couple more trying to qualify I can think of three "European Koreans": Daisy ForGG ReaL And I'm not sure if ReaL has collected enough achievements to get invited. There are Koreans that did well in European events but haven't shown any indication yet that they want to participate in WCS EU (MC, Yoda, ...). Then, there are a ton of good Koreans that are good but haven't had any good showings in Europe. Or that are merely part of an EU team. These shouldn't get invites to EU but should have to qualify imho. Don't forget Sting, he finished as second place in the ESET UK Masters and is on a foreign team. edit: here a link to the major tournaments, I'd say any European player you see mentioned there in a tournament over the course of last year is a top contender for being invited (last year might be too long, but really everybody mentioned in a tournament that long ago is still performing well up to this date): http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Major_Tournaments Well ForGG would definitely be invited as he's living in France. ReaL might be too, since he's living in Germany but he hasn't been seen much at all recently - he hasn't even been playing for Alien Invasion in the team leagues for some reason. Daisy, Sting and Arthur are all living in Korea, so unless there are plans for them to move to Europe they probably wouldn't be ESL's first choice, though there isn't much reason for them to stay in Korea if they want to play in WCS Europe. Perhaps Western Wolves can arrange a partnership with a team house in Europe for them to be living there (Millenium, Alien Invasion, ESC etc). There was also a pretty good Code B player called Sickness playing in Italy, he was tearing up the European ladder, at least till like January.
ForGG will be i'm sure, ReaL retired from SC2 and lives in Korea, has done for a while. Sting is playing Code A qualifiers tomorow, and neither Daisy nor Arthur were invited, but both will play the online qualifiers for EU.
From what i've heard, ForGG, plus 3 Code S level Koreans will be the invites, but please don't quote me, most of this is just hearsay from my players
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United States97274 Posts
On April 09 2013 20:23 Tidus Mino wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 18:26 mikkmagro wrote:On April 09 2013 18:08 JustPassingBy wrote:On April 09 2013 18:02 SinCitta wrote:On April 09 2013 09:21 Tidus Mino wrote:On April 09 2013 09:21 Laryleprakon wrote:On April 09 2013 09:17 opterown wrote:Adam Apicella @MrAdamAp 2hThe NA and EU SC2 premiere leagues are pretty amazing pending final acceptances. Can't wait to announce them They probably have a good idea already. Any bets on which Koreans going where? haha It will be interesting to see how they seed Koreans into NA/EU divisions. Kaldor tweeted last night that a lot of Koreans were going to play NA if I remember correctly. afaik EU has 4 invited Koreans, then a couple more trying to qualify I can think of three "European Koreans": Daisy ForGG ReaL And I'm not sure if ReaL has collected enough achievements to get invited. There are Koreans that did well in European events but haven't shown any indication yet that they want to participate in WCS EU (MC, Yoda, ...). Then, there are a ton of good Koreans that are good but haven't had any good showings in Europe. Or that are merely part of an EU team. These shouldn't get invites to EU but should have to qualify imho. Don't forget Sting, he finished as second place in the ESET UK Masters and is on a foreign team. edit: here a link to the major tournaments, I'd say any European player you see mentioned there in a tournament over the course of last year is a top contender for being invited (last year might be too long, but really everybody mentioned in a tournament that long ago is still performing well up to this date): http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Major_Tournaments Well ForGG would definitely be invited as he's living in France. ReaL might be too, since he's living in Germany but he hasn't been seen much at all recently - he hasn't even been playing for Alien Invasion in the team leagues for some reason. Daisy, Sting and Arthur are all living in Korea, so unless there are plans for them to move to Europe they probably wouldn't be ESL's first choice, though there isn't much reason for them to stay in Korea if they want to play in WCS Europe. Perhaps Western Wolves can arrange a partnership with a team house in Europe for them to be living there (Millenium, Alien Invasion, ESC etc). There was also a pretty good Code B player called Sickness playing in Italy, he was tearing up the European ladder, at least till like January. ForGG will be i'm sure, ReaL retired from SC2 and lives in Korea, has done for a while. Sting is playing Code A qualifiers tomorow, and neither Daisy nor Arthur were invited, but both will play the online qualifiers for EU. From what i've heard, ForGG, plus 3 Code S level Koreans will be the invites, but please don't quote me, most of this is just hearsay from my players
Time for rampant speculation until the reveal :D :D Mvp going to Europe!!!! 
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On April 09 2013 20:25 Shellshock1122 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 20:23 Tidus Mino wrote:On April 09 2013 18:26 mikkmagro wrote:On April 09 2013 18:08 JustPassingBy wrote:On April 09 2013 18:02 SinCitta wrote:On April 09 2013 09:21 Tidus Mino wrote:On April 09 2013 09:21 Laryleprakon wrote:On April 09 2013 09:17 opterown wrote:Adam Apicella @MrAdamAp 2hThe NA and EU SC2 premiere leagues are pretty amazing pending final acceptances. Can't wait to announce them They probably have a good idea already. Any bets on which Koreans going where? haha It will be interesting to see how they seed Koreans into NA/EU divisions. Kaldor tweeted last night that a lot of Koreans were going to play NA if I remember correctly. afaik EU has 4 invited Koreans, then a couple more trying to qualify I can think of three "European Koreans": Daisy ForGG ReaL And I'm not sure if ReaL has collected enough achievements to get invited. There are Koreans that did well in European events but haven't shown any indication yet that they want to participate in WCS EU (MC, Yoda, ...). Then, there are a ton of good Koreans that are good but haven't had any good showings in Europe. Or that are merely part of an EU team. These shouldn't get invites to EU but should have to qualify imho. Don't forget Sting, he finished as second place in the ESET UK Masters and is on a foreign team. edit: here a link to the major tournaments, I'd say any European player you see mentioned there in a tournament over the course of last year is a top contender for being invited (last year might be too long, but really everybody mentioned in a tournament that long ago is still performing well up to this date): http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Major_Tournaments Well ForGG would definitely be invited as he's living in France. ReaL might be too, since he's living in Germany but he hasn't been seen much at all recently - he hasn't even been playing for Alien Invasion in the team leagues for some reason. Daisy, Sting and Arthur are all living in Korea, so unless there are plans for them to move to Europe they probably wouldn't be ESL's first choice, though there isn't much reason for them to stay in Korea if they want to play in WCS Europe. Perhaps Western Wolves can arrange a partnership with a team house in Europe for them to be living there (Millenium, Alien Invasion, ESC etc). There was also a pretty good Code B player called Sickness playing in Italy, he was tearing up the European ladder, at least till like January. ForGG will be i'm sure, ReaL retired from SC2 and lives in Korea, has done for a while. Sting is playing Code A qualifiers tomorow, and neither Daisy nor Arthur were invited, but both will play the online qualifiers for EU. From what i've heard, ForGG, plus 3 Code S level Koreans will be the invites, but please don't quote me, most of this is just hearsay from my players Time for rampant speculation until the reveal :D :D Mvp going to Europe!!!!
It will be fun to see which Koreans don't try out for Code A tomorrow ^_^
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The more I think about the prize pool distribution and the more I think it'd have been better to spread them more. The champion doesn't need 35k as he participates in the finals which guarantees to him a lot of money.
The suggestion from UHF is very good :
On April 09 2013 13:11 UHF wrote:
1st place: $20,000
2nd place. $15,000
3rd/4th place: $8,000
5th place: $5,500
6th place: $4,200
7th place: $3,500
8th place: $3,000
9th-12th place: $2,000
13th-16th place: $1,500
17th-24th place: $1000
25th-32nd place: $750
And I'd have preferred 16 invites and 16 qualified players. 24 invites are a bit too much.
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On April 09 2013 18:23 StarStruck wrote:
I always figured it would be invite only meh. Open bracket days truly are gone!
Until next season. Seriously, I would rather they do invites now and get the ball rolling. The challenger matches are going to be a blast because of it. Invites vs Qualified players will be worth watching.
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EPT
