On March 26 2013 02:21 Acer.Scarlett` wrote: This isn't limited to to the KR scene at all (remember the tweet Sundance made in response to questions about no MLG open bracket~)
I don't like it at all ><
I guess it will help revive the dying foreigner scene but from what it looks like it will hurt the Korean players
oh well now it sounds like it's injecting the WCS idea into major tournaments.
i guess catz will be happy.
Yeaaaah Catz ideas, someone remember this:
Well Scarlett was being vague and I guess she has to be, but it sounds like tournaments for each region and/or country are being consolidated somewhat and maybe region locked to an extent. "I guess it will help revive the dying foreigner scene"
It is a good idea and would let each of the scenes develop more naturally. I would rather see NA teams sending their players to Korea to train, come back and kick the crap out of every NA player. Or hire kespa coaches to coach their NA players for other leagues. Rather than export our best players to Korea, I would rather import Korean training to NA, until we can train our own players. Its a long term process, but means a more robust scene in the end.
I can't even imagine watching tournaments that are NA only or EU only. Why would I want to watch people who aren't the best? That's what it comes down to. Why should some ridiculous nationalist urge make me support people who are worse in an internet sport?
On March 26 2013 02:21 Acer.Scarlett` wrote: This isn't limited to to the KR scene at all (remember the tweet Sundance made in response to questions about no MLG open bracket~)
I don't like it at all ><
I guess it will help revive the dying foreigner scene but from what it looks like it will hurt the Korean players
oh well now it sounds like it's injecting the WCS idea into major tournaments.
Well Scarlett was being vague and I guess she has to be, but it sounds like tournaments for each region and/or country are being consolidated somewhat and maybe region locked to an extent. "I guess it will help revive the dying foreigner scene"
It is a good idea and would let each of the scenes develop more naturally. I would rather see NA teams sending their players to Korea to train, come back and kick the crap out of every NA player. Or hire kespa coaches to coach their NA players for other leagues. Rather than export our best players to Korea, I would rather import Korean training to NA, until we can train our own players. Its a long term process, but means a more robust scene in the end.
I can't even imagine watching tournaments that are NA only or EU only. Why would I want to watch people who aren't the best? That's what it comes down to. Why should some ridiculous nationalist urge make me support people who are worse in an internet sport?
Well, I'm not saying you are wrong to think as you do, but I personally would find an exclusive, high brow NA exclusive tournament rather awesome, and I'd definitely tune into a EU version as well.
On March 26 2013 02:21 Acer.Scarlett` wrote: This isn't limited to to the KR scene at all (remember the tweet Sundance made in response to questions about no MLG open bracket~)
I don't like it at all ><
I guess it will help revive the dying foreigner scene but from what it looks like it will hurt the Korean players
oh well now it sounds like it's injecting the WCS idea into major tournaments.
Well Scarlett was being vague and I guess she has to be, but it sounds like tournaments for each region and/or country are being consolidated somewhat and maybe region locked to an extent. "I guess it will help revive the dying foreigner scene"
It is a good idea and would let each of the scenes develop more naturally. I would rather see NA teams sending their players to Korea to train, come back and kick the crap out of every NA player. Or hire kespa coaches to coach their NA players for other leagues. Rather than export our best players to Korea, I would rather import Korean training to NA, until we can train our own players. Its a long term process, but means a more robust scene in the end.
I can't even imagine watching tournaments that are NA only or EU only. Why would I want to watch people who aren't the best? That's what it comes down to. Why should some ridiculous nationalist urge make me support people who are worse in an internet sport?
No ones forcing you. Most sports however have national leagues and its usually an instrumental part.
On March 26 2013 02:21 Acer.Scarlett` wrote: This isn't limited to to the KR scene at all (remember the tweet Sundance made in response to questions about no MLG open bracket~)
I don't like it at all ><
I guess it will help revive the dying foreigner scene but from what it looks like it will hurt the Korean players
oh well now it sounds like it's injecting the WCS idea into major tournaments.
Well Scarlett was being vague and I guess she has to be, but it sounds like tournaments for each region and/or country are being consolidated somewhat and maybe region locked to an extent. "I guess it will help revive the dying foreigner scene"
It is a good idea and would let each of the scenes develop more naturally. I would rather see NA teams sending their players to Korea to train, come back and kick the crap out of every NA player. Or hire kespa coaches to coach their NA players for other leagues. Rather than export our best players to Korea, I would rather import Korean training to NA, until we can train our own players. Its a long term process, but means a more robust scene in the end.
I can't even imagine watching tournaments that are NA only or EU only. Why would I want to watch people who aren't the best? That's what it comes down to. Why should some ridiculous nationalist urge make me support people who are worse in an internet sport?
I believe there are these leagues that only have Korean players and they are really fucking good. They are called the GSL and Proleague. They are even run right out of Korea and you can watch them on stream. Its awesome and if you want to see the highest level play, you should go there. However, for those of us who watch college football and the NFL, we want it both ways. We want the GSL and regional leagues. We want all the options.
On March 26 2013 01:22 Drium wrote: So Blizzard basically just bought the rights to OSL? Or is there some other component to this that I'm missing?
Seems kind of similar to what Riot is doing to league with LCS. Even though it is putting more money in the scene I have to say I prefer having a bunch of tournaments run by 3rd parties and funded by external sponsors to centralized tournaments run by the game company. Although, for the Korean scene, it has never really worked like that so I guess I don't care if it's Blizzard's tournament or Gom/OGN/Kespa's. I guess I just dislike the trend of game companies wanting absolute control over their game and the surrounding community.
I think the Riot system is better, personally. They put rules in place to make sure all events make sense and factor into the larger, world wide system. They have ways for up and comming teams to win big events without having to go against the top players(like all the teams in the LCS cannot compete in MLG, though their B-teams can). They also have rules for trades and other systems in places to make sure everything is as close to fair as possible. And their focus on players being able to rise up through a set system is very encouraging.
I think Blizzard being involved is a good thing for Korea and everyone. Right now there aren't enough reasons for the leagues to work together and fosters a robust scene with all levels of play. That system might emerge without Blizzard, but I am not willing to bet on it with all the different leagues having their own goals.
Honestly do you ever stop going on about giving foreigners free money for not living in Korea and working hard? Ofc you like the Riot System better because its much more about the "white kids", despite even for LoL the Asian scenes are already becoming way better.
I will withhold judgement until announcement. Would be nice to see some cooperation between all the leagues in Korea, but I hope that they don't get rid of any of them. Except maybe OSL because I don't really enjoy the format as much as GSL, but it does have so much history..
Not until MGL and other NA events stop providing special brackets, free plane tickets and hotel stays to Korean teams and players just to assure they attend their events. Or did everyone forget that the most recent MGL system had a specific system to assure that Korean players qualified for the event? Or the MLG vs Proleague Invitational from 2012? which might as well have been called, "Make sure Proleague player do not need to go through the open bracket" event.
Seriously, high level Korean players get enough free passes to NA events, seeds and special rules to assure they will attend. I think it is complete BS that an underdog NA player had to go through the entire open bracket MGL winter 2012, but Kespa players had a special rule made up so they can avoid the open bracket.
The Riot system is better because it lets teams compete on their own space and rise to the top. The top ranked NA team just got shut down by a high level Korean team at a recent event. The NA team said they overthought the match up and their star players got focused won. They also said they are preparing for their next show down with the Korean team at another major event. That is way more exciting than the Korean team being seeded into the top of the NA league to crush the NA top team.
I rather interpret this as a balance whine more than anything.
If Koreans are the best players, then it makes perfect sense that event organizers bend over backwards to bring them in. I'd rather watch 32 of the best players duking it out for the big prize money than watch the same tournament in the knowledge that they were restricted entry because they were too good.
These special allowances, plane tickets, hotel stays and whatever else are designed to deliver the best possible games for us, the fans.
If you want Korean players to stay in Korea, the Korean scene needs to be able to facilitate the droves of talented and dedicated players. Hurting the Korean scene and forcing the players to go global to make a living is exactly the reason why Koreans have to try and attend every big event. We always talk about how the Korean scene is over-saturated and it's plain to see when it's hemorrhaging talent all over the place - there simply isn't enough prize money to go around in Korea. It's because Blizzard has focused so much attention on babying the foreign scene that we're in this situation to begin with.
I'm all for a stronger Korean scene and more regulation of the teams. It's almost abusive the way some of these superstars have to live. It's disgraceful that they have to leave their home and fill up foreign rosters so that they can eat. Blizzard is beginning to realize this.
"I wanna see the best players at all cost! Lesser players should become better! Blizzard has focused so much attention on babying the foreign scene that we're in this situation to begin with" I don't get why you are so against a european or american league played offline. Nobody said Koreans shouldn't participate in them just that if they wanted they should live in the country where it's organised so they should leave Korea for some time (like Forgg or Polt). It's fair and square and would rly boost the foreign players level of play, allow new opportunities for Koreans , bring exciting games and also add a ton of viewers. Look at LCS, 120k viewers all the time.
Also Blizzard never did anything for the foreign scene, never ever, you are just sputting ur hate for some reason. Then again why inject money in a scene oversaturated with leagues and not create one in a promising country who can bring a ton of viewers. Everybody is saying that Sc2 isnt apreciated enough in Korea, hell make a gsl-like league in Europe and see what happens.
On March 26 2013 02:21 Acer.Scarlett` wrote: This isn't limited to to the KR scene at all (remember the tweet Sundance made in response to questions about no MLG open bracket~)
I don't like it at all ><
I guess it will help revive the dying foreigner scene but from what it looks like it will hurt the Korean players
oh well now it sounds like it's injecting the WCS idea into major tournaments.
Well Scarlett was being vague and I guess she has to be, but it sounds like tournaments for each region and/or country are being consolidated somewhat and maybe region locked to an extent. "I guess it will help revive the dying foreigner scene"
It is a good idea and would let each of the scenes develop more naturally. I would rather see NA teams sending their players to Korea to train, come back and kick the crap out of every NA player. Or hire kespa coaches to coach their NA players for other leagues. Rather than export our best players to Korea, I would rather import Korean training to NA, until we can train our own players. Its a long term process, but means a more robust scene in the end.
I can't even imagine watching tournaments that are NA only or EU only. Why would I want to watch people who aren't the best? That's what it comes down to. Why should some ridiculous nationalist urge make me support people who are worse in an internet sport?
Simple awnser for you would be ...... drumrolls ..... Then don't watch it. If such a league would ever rise simply follow what you like, i for one would like to see western players get the ability to rise up atleast somewhat. So i would watch it, see how simple that is ? If it's interesting for enough people and an organisation can make some money with it, (if they think they can not we simply won't see such a thing, really it's that simple) i see no reason why we should not have a EU/NA type of league. No one is forcing you to watch no one is forcing you to pay for anything ? I really don't get all the nerd rage.
OT: Seems with Scarrlets about being "sad" about those changes, this really really makes me intrested in what is going to happen next in the Korean scene.
On March 26 2013 02:21 Acer.Scarlett` wrote: This isn't limited to to the KR scene at all (remember the tweet Sundance made in response to questions about no MLG open bracket~)
I don't like it at all ><
I guess it will help revive the dying foreigner scene but from what it looks like it will hurt the Korean players
oh well now it sounds like it's injecting the WCS idea into major tournaments.
Well Scarlett was being vague and I guess she has to be, but it sounds like tournaments for each region and/or country are being consolidated somewhat and maybe region locked to an extent. "I guess it will help revive the dying foreigner scene"
It is a good idea and would let each of the scenes develop more naturally. I would rather see NA teams sending their players to Korea to train, come back and kick the crap out of every NA player. Or hire kespa coaches to coach their NA players for other leagues. Rather than export our best players to Korea, I would rather import Korean training to NA, until we can train our own players. Its a long term process, but means a more robust scene in the end.
I can't even imagine watching tournaments that are NA only or EU only. Why would I want to watch people who aren't the best? That's what it comes down to. Why should some ridiculous nationalist urge make me support people who are worse in an internet sport?
OT: Seems with Scarrlets tweet GSTL might not be anymore, this really really makes me intrested in what is going to happen next in the Korean scene.
No she didn't. She tweeted sad news and nothing even hinted the GSTL.
On March 26 2013 02:21 Acer.Scarlett` wrote: This isn't limited to to the KR scene at all (remember the tweet Sundance made in response to questions about no MLG open bracket~)
I don't like it at all ><
I guess it will help revive the dying foreigner scene but from what it looks like it will hurt the Korean players
oh well now it sounds like it's injecting the WCS idea into major tournaments.
Well Scarlett was being vague and I guess she has to be, but it sounds like tournaments for each region and/or country are being consolidated somewhat and maybe region locked to an extent. "I guess it will help revive the dying foreigner scene"
It is a good idea and would let each of the scenes develop more naturally. I would rather see NA teams sending their players to Korea to train, come back and kick the crap out of every NA player. Or hire kespa coaches to coach their NA players for other leagues. Rather than export our best players to Korea, I would rather import Korean training to NA, until we can train our own players. Its a long term process, but means a more robust scene in the end.
I can't even imagine watching tournaments that are NA only or EU only. Why would I want to watch people who aren't the best? That's what it comes down to. Why should some ridiculous nationalist urge make me support people who are worse in an internet sport?
OT: Seems with Scarrlets tweet GSTL might not be anymore, this really really makes me intrested in what is going to happen next in the Korean scene.
No she didn't. She tweeted sad news and nothing even hinted the GSTL.
On March 26 2013 02:44 Azarkon wrote: When people complained about Blizzard not supporting the pro scene in Starcraft, they had the NA/EU scene in mind, but Blizzard, as it turns out, had other plans. I wonder whether Blizzard's new found support of the pro scene was due to Riot. After all, a partnership with OGN, the biggest broadcaster of LoL in Korea, has its benefits in the competition with Riot.
Competing with LoL in Korea would be foolish, I doubt Blizzard can do anything to make SC2 be able to compete with LoL in Korea. The goal should not be the competition, it should be creating a sustainable scene for the partners involved without making a major sacrifice to the existent scenes. The optimal would be a way to make Koreans focus more on the Korean tournaments, instead of going abroad to collect the money (which is rightfully deserved, they are the better players).
I don't think they're trying to take on LoL, but to stem its rapid takeover of the competitive scene through subsidies, partnerships, and team sponsorships. Riot has a very aggressive strategy towards eSports that involves promoting their game as the premier eSports engine and overtaking Blizzard's iron grip on games-for-esports.
I don't think Riot or Blizzard are trying to "over take" each other. They can both exisit side by side. Both games don't need to air at the same time.
SC2 and LoL are different enough that they can absolutely co-exist. In an ideal situation they can work to boost each others popularities, you already see a lot more interest for SC2 from LOL watchers every time they share a tournament floor.
On March 26 2013 03:27 LittLeD wrote: Looking at Scarlet's recent tweets, there might be some negative news related to whatever change that's occurring :/
It's definitely not pure good news form a player perspective given all the reactions. It remains to be seen how it's from a spectator one.
With such a unanimously negative response from (mostly korean, albeit) commentators, media figures and players... I guess everyone should enjoy the time we have left.
If it's regional lockouts on tournaments I think it's going to kill a lot more interest than it'll generate. I tuned in to all the later MLGs because I knew some of the best players in the world would be there. Twice now I've sat and cheered for Flash all weekend long and fair enough he lost to Life both times, but the skill level was incredible.
I feel sorry for players like MC who really love travelling all over the world to show off their skill who are going to be hurt the most by this sort of change. I know it's only speculation at this point, but for the sake of eSports I hope they don't lock tournaments to regions, sure maybe have smaller regional tournaments like WCS ended up doing, but making the MLGs, the Dreamhacks and the IEMs region locked will only stunt the skill level outside of Korea, much like what happened during BW. Foreign players couldn't really compete at all with Koreans, but rather than changing their style/practice style/work ethic to match that of the Korean teams, both communities got splintered (mainly due to Kespa management) and both sides became completely isolated from each other. T_T
On March 26 2013 03:30 MCXD wrote: With such a unanimously negative response from (mostly korean, albeit) commentators, media figures and players... I guess everyone should enjoy the time we have left.
April 4th, the day the Korean scene died ??
No, the day we learn not to listen to people with limited amounts of information. Again.
On March 26 2013 03:30 MCXD wrote: With such a unanimously negative response from (mostly korean, albeit) commentators, media figures and players... I guess everyone should enjoy the time we have left.
April 4th, the day the Korean scene died ??
Here's a shocking idea. We could wait until we have the facts (remember those?).
On March 26 2013 03:30 MCXD wrote: With such a unanimously negative response from (mostly korean, albeit) commentators, media figures and players... I guess everyone should enjoy the time we have left.
April 4th, the day the Korean scene died ??
Here's a shocking idea. We could wait until we have the facts (remember those?).
for people saying they wouldn't want to watch a league without Koreans: don't watch it then. i get why people might not want to watch those, and that's fine. doesn't mean they can't or shouldn't exist.
at the same time, a GSL-like league in EU or NA could help a lot in improving foreigners' skill levels overall. given sufficient prize money to make it worthwhile, teams would probably be willing to invest in proper training facilities, coaching etc and players would also be more motivated considering they'd be given a realistic chance of actually winning a highly prestigious tournament. Additionally, players might decide to go to Korea for a few months, train there, then go back and take all the foreign money, which in turn would increase skill levels and competition yet again.
Imagine (completely random fantasy scenario) NASL announces they will from now on be an offline GSL-style league which takes place at their studios. Teams all over NA set up team houses around the NASL studios (no idea where they are tbh) and start training hardcore, probably also across teams as people tend to be friends with each other in the scene. This alone creates a practice environment that is much closer to Seoul than anything we have outside of Korea right now. EG looks at the situation, realize they have ten times the money of everyone else and wanna make even more and send Demuslim, Idra, Huk and Suppy to Korea to practice there for three months. They come back pimped out on Korean skill, wipe the floor with everybody in the league and other teams start doing the same.
EPT
