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On March 15 2013 23:30 uh-oh wrote:
If David Kim thinks people are not reacting to mines correctly AND he's GM on kr server, I say Blizzard should let him play a couple of showmatches with pro terrans as P/Z so we can all be enlightened as to how to deal with those pesky mine drops
Yeah instead let's just nerf everything to shit because people can't be bothered to work on new ideas to deal with strats anymore. I thought this was the mindset we were trying to get rid of?
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They should have made changes earlier.
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On March 15 2013 23:33 Fragile51 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 23:30 uh-oh wrote:
If David Kim thinks people are not reacting to mines correctly AND he's GM on kr server, I say Blizzard should let him play a couple of showmatches with pro terrans as P/Z so we can all be enlightened as to how to deal with those pesky mine drops Yeah instead let's just nerf everything to shit because people can't be bothered to work on new ideas to deal with strats anymore. I thought this was the mindset we were trying to get rid of?
Clearlly Blizzard should nerf everything to the point where no one can be agressive ever again. Then we will be back to late 2012 all over again.
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As a Protoss player in mid to high masters as we speak in HotS I can't see any reason to nerf either medivacs or widow mines. It's harder to play against good drop play than before, but it's still possible. Just like many terran opponents are slowly realising Protoss can be dangerously aggressive early on with 1 base with hidden/proxy stargate openings. Likewise, I see no reason to nerf the Void Ray or the Oracle. A lot of players are notoriously slow to react to changes and many others are still experimenting. It's nothing new for those who played beta but I've had tons of success in early to mid games by making nothing but Zealots and Oracles (~5 or 6) and then adding in some Phoenix, upgrading to chargelot and getting Archons and Storm, and I've gotten tons of whine from Terrans how everything should be nerfed. Oracles do high dps while offering detection and utility in the form of envision while also being flying and fast to react to threats, Phoenix chase down medivacs and blow them up and in other situations can lift tanks or other dangerous units, Zealots just tank everything and later on the Archons and Templars do the heavy lifting. If game goes to 3 base and higher u can just add couple Robos for Colossus production.
Despite Blizzard getting stuff wrong every now and then I'm with David Kim in that we need to wait a good couple months before jumping into any kind of conclusions.
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Which TvZ did you guys like more?
Queen buff or no queen buff?
I feel like there's a similar situation now with widow mines/medivacs, they add so much to the liveliness of the game. If they get nerfed we might see the game get more stagnate, and arguably more boring. Early aggression adds a lot of diversity to the game, it might mean that some builds could dominate certain periods of time but stuff gets figured out in timely manner anyway.
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GM with all 3 races on KR sever? Man must be good! This heartens me, perhaps there are some in blizzard who understand the game from a player point of view rather than pure development! I agree with him that we should wait and see what happens, atleast a season of play is needed before any decisions are made? Surely? Give people time to adapt/steal idea's off pro's :D
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He's not GM in Korea, the article only says that his account name is in Korean.
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On March 15 2013 23:59 Andr3 wrote:
Which TvZ did you guys like more?
Queen buff or no queen buff?
I feel like there's a similar situation now with widow mines/medivacs, they add so much to the liveliness of the game. If they get nerfed we might see the game get more stagnate, and arguably more boring. Early aggression adds a lot of diversity to the game, it might mean that some builds could dominate certain periods of time but stuff gets figured out in timely manner anyway.
I agree. Though the buffed drop play can sometimes be frustrating to play against, it adds a lot of diversity and fun as a spectator. Also it shouldn't be forgotten that protoss defense got buffed heavily with mothership core. So it should be possible to adapt to the new terran aggression.
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On March 15 2013 23:46 xyzz wrote:
As a Protoss player in mid to high masters as we speak in HotS I can't see any reason to nerf either medivacs or widow mines. It's harder to play against good drop play than before, but it's still possible. Just like many terran opponents are slowly realising Protoss can be dangerously aggressive early on with 1 base with hidden/proxy stargate openings. Likewise, I see no reason to nerf the Void Ray or the Oracle. A lot of players are notoriously slow to react to changes and many others are still experimenting. It's nothing new for those who played beta but I've had tons of success in early to mid games by making nothing but Zealots and Oracles (~5 or 6) and then adding in some Phoenix, upgrading to chargelot and getting Archons and Storm, and I've gotten tons of whine from Terrans how everything should be nerfed. Oracles do high dps while offering detection and utility in the form of envision while also being flying and fast to react to threats, Phoenix chase down medivacs and blow them up and in other situations can lift tanks or other dangerous units, Zealots just tank everything and later on the Archons and Templars do the heavy lifting. If game goes to 3 base and higher u can just add couple Robos for Colossus production.
Despite Blizzard getting stuff wrong every now and then I'm with David Kim in that we need to wait a good couple months before jumping into any kind of conclusions.
You should go to Korea and coach thoses rookie Korean protoss like Parting, they sure need a little bit of help and mighty wisdom from you sir.
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On March 16 2013 00:17 Zetter wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 23:59 Andr3 wrote:
Which TvZ did you guys like more?
Queen buff or no queen buff?
I feel like there's a similar situation now with widow mines/medivacs, they add so much to the liveliness of the game. If they get nerfed we might see the game get more stagnate, and arguably more boring. Early aggression adds a lot of diversity to the game, it might mean that some builds could dominate certain periods of time but stuff gets figured out in timely manner anyway. I agree. Though the buffed drop play can sometimes be frustrating to play against, it adds a lot of diversity and fun as a spectator. Also it shouldn't be forgotten that protoss defense got buffed heavily with mothership core. So it should be possible to adapt to the new terran aggression.
Even if it is IMBA, I think they have tons of options for how to fix it. I would like them to change the turn radius for a boosted medivac, so they control differently, rather than just being super fast. It would still give the terran the ability to make amazing drops in the late game, but would also make the ability a bit riskier to use form a control standpoint. It would also make it so they can't turn on a dime, which would give the prepared player the ability to punish it.
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Not surprised he's a gm in all 3 races. He;s Korean kkkkk.
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"rise of the Terran mech" ? Where? On ladder?
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Hmm fungal growth plus corruption should take care of voidray's(if you can keep the infestors alive long enough, i guess)
Havent tried it yet,so not sure.
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I guess they'll do what they'll do, it's just sad we are already nerfing away many possibilities these units woul bring. If and when medivac boosters are nerfed I will likely quit this game depending on how severe it is. There are no players anymore who want to scout and figure out the best plan, the only want for easy expansions and their mineral dump units to counter all early aggression ( queen, ling, marine, zealot). God forbid terran use anything besides hellion banshee or hellion bio openings, because those are too hard to defend with a swell of lings + a spine or two
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On one side widow mines add "life" to the game. On the other side they make a lot of zerg agreession/harass very risky and even less efficient. So it's little one sided, and in the end I think they will lead to more turtling. Terrans will go "hey I can take 3 bases really fast" and zerg will go "I can't move out, I guess I'll stay home and macro".
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On March 16 2013 01:39 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 00:17 Zetter wrote:On March 15 2013 23:59 Andr3 wrote:
Which TvZ did you guys like more?
Queen buff or no queen buff?
I feel like there's a similar situation now with widow mines/medivacs, they add so much to the liveliness of the game. If they get nerfed we might see the game get more stagnate, and arguably more boring. Early aggression adds a lot of diversity to the game, it might mean that some builds could dominate certain periods of time but stuff gets figured out in timely manner anyway. I agree. Though the buffed drop play can sometimes be frustrating to play against, it adds a lot of diversity and fun as a spectator. Also it shouldn't be forgotten that protoss defense got buffed heavily with mothership core. So it should be possible to adapt to the new terran aggression. Even if it is IMBA, I think they have tons of options for how to fix it. I would like them to change the turn radius for a boosted medivac, so they control differently, rather than just being super fast. It would still give the terran the ability to make amazing drops in the late game, but would also make the ability a bit riskier to use form a control standpoint. It would also make it so they can't turn on a dime, which would give the prepared player the ability to punish it.
First time I read that, sounds like a really good idea and physically it makes sense.
On March 16 2013 02:07 Sapphire.lux wrote:
"rise of the Terran mech" ? Where? On ladder?
Let's see how the korean terrans play this week-end, I'll be very disappointed if all of them stick to bio-builds in TvZ (I gave up on mech TvP).
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I'm not really sure how DK is gm on kr since there's no gm for one or two weeks
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"seeing the rising of the Terran Mec"
?????
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The problem with speedvacs are that they can bypass defensive structures and well positioned units. Dropships should take advantage of lack of defensive structures and well positioned units not ignore them at just speed boost over them.
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EPT
