EPTRacial Balance in GSL (2010-2013 WoL) - Page 7
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Sokrates
738 Posts
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Sabu113
United States11086 Posts
On March 10 2013 07:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: The problem was that in WoL, the first half was dominated by Terran and the second half was dominated by Zerg. That doesn't leave very many halves left for Protoss to dominate now, does it? And that was over three years, not 4 months. But HotS should be good, as it seems that Protoss's skill ceiling will be raised, with new harassment options and new, viable tech and harassment paths. Maybe a vet can give an opinion, did BW viewership take off 2007-2009? That era seemed like one of the most racially mixed and rich periods of play from what I gather of the history. Can we tell a story that a more balanced game with richer matchups will attract and maintain more viewers? That sounds intuitively true. From what little I gathered, BW sounded like it had gone swarm season since I had stopped watching and that coincided with a fall in viewer numbers. The matches seemed less harass focused too (esp Toss). It's clearly very hard to design and maintain a well balanced RTS but the payoffs are obvious. I am glad you're optimistic about the future of HoTS but I must admit the conservatism Blizz showed in its changes make me wonder if we're going to have a jumbled game for another 2 years until legacy of the void. Reborn is spot on. In balance democracy the Toss pros bear the blame for not shouting on the mountains like prominent Terrans and Zergs. The sad zealot existed for far too long. | ||
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birchman
Sweden393 Posts
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Umpteen
United Kingdom1570 Posts
The opener itself played out entertainingly enough: both sides had high stakes (immediate, long-lasting loss of map control for Terran, severe economic damage or outright game loss for Zerg) and there was lots of action happening. Terrans were busy trying to snipe tumors, Z was busy trying to sneak them past the Hellions, players had to watch their Queens/Hellions constantly to prevent a Hellion/Speedling snipe, respectively, and so forth. The most important thing of all, though, was that it led to an actual midgame. As a spectacle it was entertainment of a sort. As something Zergs had to actually play through game after game after game it was like pulling teeth. Eight minutes of the Terran trying to win and the Zerg trying to... not lose. Just spectating pro ZvT made my blood boil. Game 1: Zerg deflects hellion-banshee perfectly, fends off endless drops and grinds out a nailbiting 30 minute five-base win. Game 2: Proxy 2rax levels the score in six minutes flat. Game 3: Oh look, here he comes with his fucking hellions again, and two seconds' inattention halves the drone count and makes the rest of the game a formality. That's not to say the queen buff was the right fix. As you say, it exposed the truth of Zerg: boring but strong. If a Zerg isn't flailing around trying not to die, he's not doing anything at all because there's nothing to do. | ||
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
On March 10 2013 02:42 BernabusStarcraft2 wrote: Pretty much everything points out that Protoss was the worst race in WOL. By a fair amount. except vs terran and terran outside of korea was the worst/hardest/least forgiving. | ||
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
On March 10 2013 09:39 Emzeeshady wrote: no, there were just no good foreign Terrans. Most Warcraft 3 players went to Zerg/Toss cause they were more visually animated. damn. I bet thats the reason. | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
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tuho12345
4482 Posts
Cool read, thanks OP | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On March 10 2013 09:39 Emzeeshady wrote: no, there were just no good foreign Terrans. Most Warcraft 3 players went to Zerg/Toss cause they were more visually animated. Actually terran is simply the hardest to get the max out of your units, but when you do its simply more then other races. think of it as a line with numbers terran goes 1-10 where other races go maybe 4-8. You can get so much potential out of your units as terran if your good compared to other races. | ||
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Ruscour
5233 Posts
On March 10 2013 10:06 tuho12345 wrote: Protoss players never that good, their playstyle aren't really special. Terran has lots of styles and diversities and Zerg is simply OP at the end. Cool read, thanks OP Are you kidding me? The players were just never that good? The reason they don't have special playstyles is because PROTOSS IS DESIGNED TO HAVE ONE VIABLE PLAYSTYLE. | ||
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Locke-
499 Posts
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CutieBK
Sweden227 Posts
Very nice layout and I especially like how you place your own views in their own neat little brackets. Well done, mate  | ||
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a_flayer
Netherlands2826 Posts
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wangstra
922 Posts
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On March 10 2013 07:57 Sokrates wrote: I think most of the zerg players are superior to toss players, weather it may be to skill or the fact that the skillceiling for toss is much lower than for terran or zerg. I'm stuck between trying to upbraid you for poor spelling or offering you hemlock for your inability to think and hence utter disparagement of such a worthy name. | ||
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Elwar
953 Posts
I think a lot can be said about terran benefitting or requiring better mechanics, the lack of good terran pros in the foreign-scene, the relative ease of zerg and the utter long-term domination by them in many foreign countries. I also think to some extent balance reflects the amount of map control each race can exert. Its a really important part of the game that is difficult to quantify. | ||
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petered
United States1817 Posts
You already put in a lot of work, but if you are still in the chart churning mode, may I suggest putting up some similar information for BW OSl and MSL? I would be curious to see how a much more stable game would perform over time. You could use that as a baseline for what is "normal" win-rate fluctuation versus balance issues. | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On March 10 2013 10:15 Ruscour wrote: Are you kidding me? The players were just never that good? The reason they don't have special playstyles is because PROTOSS IS DESIGNED TO HAVE ONE VIABLE PLAYSTYLE. That's simply not true. Protoss has many different playstyles by design. Fact of the matter is, that Stargate gets hardcountered by bio and infestors - the standard vP playstyles - and therefore is useless most of the time. Similar things can be said about early/midgame dropplay and lowtier macro spam. Not to mention that Protoss turtleplay is not a design choice. Hell, Protoss can build units ANYWHERE with Warpgate. The reason why they are not doing this most of the time is again balancing. bio/roach wrecks a Protoss that does not sit tight. Which is not a design choice. It's just how the game got figured out. | ||
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